Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

It will be a PND 91, 2 pages of the UK DTA and copies of my P60's.

Why not just fill in the PND 91with the applicable assessable income, less any stipulated deductions and allowances, and then arrive at tax owed, or not. Then hand it in, or mail it. Why march off to the TRD office with a pile of DTA explanations and numbers, etc? Isn't self-assessment good enough?  Then, if TRD has follow up questions, they'll contact you?

 

I don't need to file a tax return this year, but if I did, I'd try to file electronically -- but if not available in English, I'd fill out a hard copy and mail it in (is that allowed?). Or is there some requirement that, not going electronically, I have to go to my local TRD and go over my return with an agent, line for line, plus hand in some supporting documentation (what might that be -- I've heard a bank statement -- is that gospel?).

 

All very confusing, especially if self-assessment is the current guidance. And if filing electronically supports this guidance....

 

 

[Presnock]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

That is why it is commonly referred to as FATCA / CRS.

 

Under the FACTA exchange of banking data is actually very litle information only the aggregate bank account money fo the year, acct # etc but in reality, the local bank already has most of that info anyway, except for the additional amount that is different from the total that I remitted to Thailand. (gotten from the local Thai bank).  I had to provide them with my ss# when Iopened the local acct and they see the money from my state side bank every month.  I only have my US govt pension as an income so doesn't supposedly count as assessable income since it can only be taxed by the US govt.  As for the lesser amount that I remit, all that is exempt by the LTR so again isn't acounted as assessable since it supposedly cannot be taxed by the Revenue Dept (YET anyway).  Just saying that unless the RD does come out publicly and state that ALL expats/foreigners (adults) have to get a Tax ID and file then I won't.   If the RD contacts me about the remittance source, I can provide govt documents showing my income is solely the civil service pension and that I have an LTR but they should really be active in contact with the BOI and Immigraton.  Have a great day!

[oldcpu]

22 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

• In addition to the 2 million baht exemption, there is also a 4 million baht threshold related to the remittance of funds into Thailand.
• For amounts exceeding 2 million baht but less than 4 million baht, the remitted income still benefits from a reduced tax treatment (for example, some exemption or lower tax rate depending on the type of income).
• However, if remittances exceed 4 million baht in a year, this will be subject to closer scrutiny, and depending on the nature of the funds and your tax residency status, you might be required to pay tax on the income that exceeds this limit.

 

My Thai wife and I remitted +18-million THB to purchase our condo in Thailand back in 2016. We were both non residents to Thailand then.  The remittances were flagged to purchase real estate (or a condo).  We also noted such to the bank and filled in some form at the bank.

 

There were no questions asked afterward.  i can't recall the form right now.  I would have to dig it up.

[ukrules]

4 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

That is unclear and anyway unenforceable since non residents do not have to file for foreign sourced income remittances.

 

Interesting, but it would show up in an audit and they say that if you submit money made in a year when you are resident in a later year even if you were non resident then it's taxable - PWC put out a bulletin about this a month or two ago.

 

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

But even this from the TRD - they fail to mention foreign earned income exempted by LTR or DTA (i.e. US SS, civil service pension which local rd's advise that no tax id is warranted nor filing of the tax forms since in the referenced chart, it says "subject to tax" yet fails to say that these exempted sources are not subjec to tax so nothing needs to be done about them other than to be able to justify the exemption to the TRD if queried WHY no id nor tax form.

BTW the document within the TRD para 1 says obtain the ID within 60 (sixty) days of having assessable income.

[Yumthai]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

That's interesting.  Of course one (on $20-million US$ interest) is still paying $3-million US$ in taxes likely in withholding taxes (the flat 15% rate you refer to).

 

What is most interesting, is the statement "individuals may choose to exclude interest from other income", although as to where that exclusion applies in the precise implementation is not clear to me yet.

 

Obviously these are mute and hypothetical points/discussions

 

... but given other discussions on this thread, it has me wondering, is this interest (with a flat 15% tax rate) to be included in 'assessable' income for the determination of whether a tax return is required on such a large amount of interest. 

 

Yes, the Thai tax on the interest was already withheld (by bank or financial institute) so the Thai RD have their money , ... but is it still necessary to report such on a Thai income tax form if, say, that is one's only income while a tax resident of Thailand?

 

i prefer NOT to start another heated discussion on this, but if any know the relevant section in the Thai tax code, or Royal Decree or Ministerial instruction they could point to, that would be a useful reference to keep.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html#section48

 

Section 48 (3)

 

(3) The taxpayer may elect to pay tax at the rate of 15.0 per cent of the following income under Section 40 (4) (a) and (g) instead of calculating the amount of tax as under (1) and (2): ...

 

My understanding is that you have the choice to select the 15% WHT on interest as a final tax thus not to be declared.

 

More information:

https://sherrings.com/interest-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

 

[ukrules]

23 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

• In addition to the 2 million baht exemption, there is also a 4 million baht threshold related to the remittance of funds into Thailand.
• For amounts exceeding 2 million baht but less than 4 million baht, the remitted income still benefits from a reduced tax treatment (for example, some exemption or lower tax rate depending on the type of income).
• However, if remittances exceed 4 million baht in a year, this will be subject to closer scrutiny, and depending on the nature of the funds and your tax residency status, you might be required to pay tax on the income that exceeds this limit.

 

I sent my remittances at various stages over the year in varying amounts, one that was over $50k USD (I sent $55k) triggered a phone call from the bank asking for the purpose.

However I was non resident in 2024 and it was money 'made' / realised in 2024 whilst I was non resident.

This will never be taxed under any circumstances, I have the receipts so they can look all they want.
 

I will make enquiries about this 4 million Baht a year threshold thing though.

I still have all the money I made in 2024 sitting somewhere in the US earning me interest and that interest sum is quite a lot - more than most people earn in a full time job so for the next few years I will remain non resident until I incorporate at some point as now this is just personal finance.

 

[Guavaman]

17 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Why march off to the TRD office with a pile of DTA explanations and numbers, etc? Isn't self-assessment good enough?  Then, if TRD has follow up questions, they'll contact you?

 

While all reports indicate a very user-friendly attitude of TRD assessment officers, a walk-in interview-based filing process with inspection of supporting documentation amounts to a pre-filing audit by someone who may or may not fully comprehend the implications of foreign-sourced income, P. 161/162, Royal Decrees, DTAs, etc.  

 

Sounds like a high-risk situation, depending upon your luck of the draw in which local tax officer "helps" you file, inspects your documents, applies their Thai taxpayer oriented guidelines, interprets DTAs, etc.  An unsafe Thai tax zipline bungee jump!

 

[anrcaccount]

32 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

I was testing to see if the advice from Carl Turner at Expat Tax that pre-2024 income only refers to cash in the bank, so I only asked if cash in a brokerage account was acceptable or not.  I took advice from Baker McKenzie to convert investments to capital prior to 31 December 2023.  

 

Thanks, but hang on, I'm confused with what you've described, I hope you don't mind if I ask you to clarify, if this is too long to reply to, feel free to PM?

 

What do you mean by this? Do you mean you sold all of your stocks prior to 31/12/2023 and held it in cash?

 

Remembering, investments are comprised of capital + gains anyway. Every cent of your balance, regardless of what that balance was comprised of,  as at 31/12/2023,  consisted of income prior to 31/12/23. 

 

 

 

32 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

It makes sense that pre-2024 income, that AN users like to call "savings" must exist in a liquid form.  For example, my brokerage account held $1m worth of stocks on 31 December 2023, bought with pre-2024 income, then I sold it in 2024, so I don't need to pay tax on remittance of the capital with which I bought those stocks.  Too difficult to assess the monetary value of those stocks.  Problem with the definition of pre-2024 income. 

 

 

 

Sorry, can I clarify your example please? :

 

• 31/12/2023- you have a brokerage account with $1m USD worth of stocks in it
• Sometime in 2024 - you sold all of these stocks  ( what did you sell them for? $1M, $1.2M, 900K???) 
• So, you don't need to pay any tax on remittance of funds up to $1M.......? ( in fact, your $1M of stocks may have been purchased for $600K 5 years ago and grown via capital gains to $1M as of 31/12/2023)

 

Remittance of original capital of an asset is definitely not taxable. The idea of 'savings' doesn't actually exist. 

 

The only lack of clarity is what constitutes the figure of the 'original capital' , and how the value of that capital on the 31/12/2023 is seen by the TRD. 

 

I don't hold with the view that it needs to be in cash, it doesn't pass a logic test, many stocks and funds are almost equally liquid. 

 

32 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

 

I did not expect that the call center representative could provide clear actionable guidance on that, so I focused on the concept of liquid assets (cash in the bank a la Carl Turner), probing to see if that concept could be extended to cash in a financial institution that is not a 'bank."   As I stated to the TRD rep:  I cannot find any official guidance on what constitutes "pre-2024 income" that is exempted under P. 162A.  He did not provide any official reference to clarify the definition of "pre-2024 income" or evidence required to prove that income is "pre-2024 income" other than the usual bank statements, etc.

 

OK, so what you did confirm is that cash as of 31/12/2023 would be exempt, if it is held in a bank or a  brokerage account, in cash.

 

 

[Yumthai]

2 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Interesting, but it would show up in an audit and they say that if you submit money made in a year when you are resident in a later year even if you were non resident then it's taxable - PWC put out a bulletin about this a month or two ago.

 

https://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax/assets/thai-tax/thai-tax-booklet-2024-25.pdf

 

Under this instruction, A person who resides in Thailand at one or more times for an aggregate period of 180 days or more in any tax year and has assessable income due to work duties or activities performed abroad or assets that are located abroad according to Section 41 paragraph two of the Revenue Code in that tax year and has brought that assessable income into Thailand in any tax year, has a duty to include that assessable income in calculating income tax under Section 48 of the Revenue Code in the tax year in which the assessable income is brought into Thailand.

 

This PWC statement refers to tax residents only.

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, ukrules said:

I sent my remittances at various stages over the year in varying amounts, one that was over $50k USD (I sent $55k) triggered a phone call from the bank asking for the purpose.

Banks are diligent about monitoring and reporting large, unusual, or suspicious transactions to help prevent money laundering. This is under 2 million baht so they are under no obligation to give this information to the RD. 

[oldcpu]

13 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html#section48

 

Section 48 (3)

 

(3) The taxpayer may elect to pay tax at the rate of 15.0 per cent of the following income under Section 40 (4) (a) and (g) instead of calculating the amount of tax as under (1) and (2): ...

 

My understanding is that you have the choice to select the 15% WHT on interest as a final tax thus not to be declared.

 

More information:

https://sherrings.com/interest-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

 

 

Thanks ... THAT was the tax code section I was looking for and could not find.  If i may quote just a bit more:

 

Quote

 

Section 48 (3)

 

(3) The taxpayer may elect to pay tax at the rate of 15.0 per cent of the following income under Section 40 (4) (a) and (g) instead of calculating the amount of tax as under (1) and (2):

(a) Interest on a bond, interest on a deposit with a bank in Thailand

 

 

I don't fully understand what is meant by " instead of calculating the amount of tax as under (1) and (2) " but it could mean not being assessable income as part of the determination for filing a tax return (in addition to not being included in a tax return). 

But honestly -  I don't know.  I suspect thou it may mean given the bank account interest was already taxed (withholding tax) at a max of 15% flat tax, it not need be considered in any future tax calculations. 

Of course this would be a Thailand approach.

No way Canada would go for such - as Canada wants to use every last cent of one's global income to assess one's taxation bracket.  ...

But Canada is Canada - and This IS Thailand.

[oldcpu]

27 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

Interesting, but it would show up in an audit and they say that if you submit money made in a year when you are resident in a later year even if you were non resident then it's taxable - PWC put out a bulletin about this a month or two ago.

 

 

Yes - and I also suspect thou if one could show they had the money BEFORE -1-Jan-2024 then there is no issue (per por-161/12).

 

Further i suspect after -Jan-2024, if they can show how much their savings grew in years when they were not a Thai resident, and then add that (post 1-Jan-2024 non-resident savings accumulation) to their record of pre-1-Jan-2024 savings, there would be no issue.  I think it becoming more and more clear that having financial records handy, in case of an audit, could be essential.

 

...and Royal Decrees (DTA / LTR visa) possibly complicate the answer further with additional categories/exemptions.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, Guavaman said:

I just spent an hour in a dialogue with a representative of the TRD on their hotline 1161 in Thai language.  Several times the TRD representative clarified my question and said: "Please hold while I check the information for your answer."  I have summarized our dialogue below.

 

Q1: If I remit U.S. Social Security benefit income, is it exempt from taxation?

A1: Remittance of U.S. Social Security benefit income is exempt from taxation.

 

Q2: Do I need to declare remittances of U.S. Social Security benefit income and file a tax return?

A2: There is no need to declare U.S. Social Security benefit income and no need to file a tax return for that income.

 

Q3: If I have an LTR Wealthy Pensioner visa, do I need to file a tax return?

A3: If you have an LTR Wealthy Pensioner visa, there is no need to file a tax return.

 

Q4: If I remit assessable income derived prior to 1 January 2024, do I need to declare it and file a tax return?

A4: If you remit assessable income derived prior to 1 January 2024, there is no need to declare it and file a tax return.

 

Q5:  What evidence is required to be kept in case of an audit of remitted income derived prior to 1 January 2024?

A5: Bank statements and evidence of withdrawals and remittances are required to be kept in case of an audit of remitted income derived prior to 1 January 2024.

 

Q6: Is a statement from a financial institution that is a stock brokerage acceptable evidence to show cash income derived prior to 1 January 2024 in a brokerage account as of 31 December 2023?

A6: A statement from a financial institution that is a stock brokerage is acceptable evidence to show cash income derived prior to 1 January 2024 in a brokerage account as of 31 December 2023.

 

There were more questions regarding gifts, but upon questioning regarding evidence required and taxability of offshore gifts, the TRD hotline representative advised to make an appointment online with a TRD specialist regarding the details of taxation of gifts involving remittances. 

 

The TRD representative was most polite and helpful, even though some questions went beyond his ability to clarify, and he then advised how to make an online appointment for in-depth consultation with a TRD expert (in Thai).

 

These answers are from the TRD information call center, not from some tax officer out in the provinces. 

 

ExCellent message for this forum readers, especially as it clarified entirely my financial situation and no need to file!!! Thank you.

[JimGant]

20 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

Sounds like a high-risk situation, depending upon your luck of the draw in which local tax officer "helps" you file, inspects your documents, applies their Thai taxpayer oriented guidelines, interprets DTAs, etc.  An unsafe Thai tax zipline bungee jump!

 

Right. Now can anyone answer my question on being able to mail to TRD my self assessed hard copy tax return -- or, if not, drop it off at the front door of TRD, without any further discussion. Thanx.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

 

Thankyou!

 

i wish some of the video blogger Income tax advisor companies had been as direct in asking those questions. 

 

Such questions were not in the parts of their videos that they posted on youtube.

 

And the paranoid/skeptic part of me asks, why not?  Were the 'tax advisor companies' just trying to keep this obscure, so to drum up business for themselves?

 

But I need to say to myself over and over " do not be a skeptic ...do not be a skeptic ... do no be ... "

Having watched so many different webinars, you are exactly right! failed to ake the direct questions affecting so many here!

[The Cyclist]

44 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Why not just fill in the PND 91with the applicable assessable income, less any stipulated deductions and allowances, and then arrive at tax owed, or not. Then hand it in, or mail it.

 

Perhaps, because at this moment in time I do not have a TIN ? And it would be pretty stoopid doing what you suggest without one.
 

A  good enough reason, or would you like to open your mouth and let your belly rumble some more ?
 

Not very bright, are you.

[SHA 2 BKK]

21 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Thanks ... THAT was the tax code section I was looking for and could not find.  If i may quote just a bit more:

 

 

I don't fully understand what is meant by " instead of calculating the amount of tax as under (1) and (2) " but it could mean not being assessable income as part of the determination for filing a tax return (in addition to not being included in a tax return). 

But honestly -  I don't know.  I suspect thou it may mean given the bank account interest was already taxed (withholding tax) at a max of 15% flat tax, it not need be considered in any future tax calculations. 

Of course this would be a Thailand approach.

No way Canada would go for such - as Canada wants to use every last cent of one's global income to assess one's taxation bracket.  ...

But Canada is Canada - and This IS Thailand.

Interesting - in Australia where I keep the majority of my cash at 5+% interest, the witholding tax rate for me is 10% (as per Australian Thai DTA) whereas for Australian Tax residents its counts as assessable income so if I was to live in Australia it would be taxed at about 37%.   

 

It must be declared at tax time and there are even boxes in the Australian Tax forms to note this and other DTA impacted income.   

[Guavaman]

4 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

Remittance of original capital of an asset is definitely not taxable. The idea of 'savings' doesn't actually exist. 

 

The only lack of clarity is what constitutes the figure of the 'original capital' , and how the value of that capital on the 31/12/2023 is seen by the TRD. 

 

I don't hold with the view that it needs to be in cash, it doesn't pass a logic test, many stocks and funds are almost equally liquid. 

Apologies for causing confusion.  The example was only to illustrate the logic of the difficulty of trying to attribute a monetary value to pre-2024 income "savings," if not held in cash.

 

It appears that some advisers/experts are stating that only cash in the bank qualifies as pre-2024 income, referred to by AN users as "savings." This appears to be a practical approach to implementing P. 162 exempting taxation on pre-2024 income.  There must be some criteria to qualify as such and to form the basis for identifying that income when remitted subsequent to 1 January 2024.  

 

For example:  If I had a portfolio of stocks and some real estate bought over the years and the value of my portfolio and real estate on 31 December 2023 was $xxx,xxx, all bought from income derived pre-2024.  Then I sold some stocks and some land and remitted the funds into Thailand in 2024.  How is the TRD to assess the taxable value of your remittances? The capital gains can only be calculated by referring back to your cost bases of pre-2024 income and the subsequent capital gains remitted. Very messy, and now you are reporting on remittances of capital gains in 2024, while trying to claim exemption due to the unassessed value of your stocks or land as of the 31 December 2023 deadline. Unless those assets were converted to cash prior to 1 January 2024, there is no way to establish the cost basis of your pre-2024 "income" that is to be remitted subsequently.  This is the issue that Carl Turner is trying to address, and he claims that his advice is based upon close consultations with the TRD. 

 

The simplest and most practical approach is to limit the definition of pre-2024 income to "cash in the bank" as of 31 December 2023, despite the fact that no official definition of pre-2024 income exists in the tax code or regulations.  This is only the first year of an experimental remittance-based personal income tax system; no court cases exist and no rulings exist regarding the source of remitted pre-2024 income, or the implications of P. 162A regarding the acceptable/unacceptable exemption from taxation of assessable income when remitted.

 

The implications of exemption of pre-2024 "savings" under P. 162A will continue to reverberate for decades unless and until it is cancelled or superseded.  

 

[Neeranam]

My mother put her house in my name 10 years ago. If she dies before me and I sell 'my' house, will this be taxable? 

[Neeranam]

So the new tax order doesn't differentiate between Thais and foreigners. Strange there are no Thais on any forums/social media worried about it, except one I saw where someone picking fruit outside Thailand for more than 180 days was concerned. I wonder why Thais are not worried and tax accountants etc are not offering their services? 

[Guavaman]

Good luck trying to convince the TRD that your mothers' house is pre-2024 income! Good example.

[samtam]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

 I totally agree.  The problem from what I notice is the failure of the Thai government through the Finance Ministry and TRD who are looking to garner additional funds through the expansion of the tax base here and have failed to keep the expats informed of any other changes to the taxe other than the 31 December 2023 change date on remittances.  Even this they have failed to advise officially by easily interviewing with news media if all foreigners MUST obtain a Thai Tax ID and file 2024 tax forms for exempted foreign income i.e. protected by DTA's, LTR exemptions, or pensions taxed already in one's home country because it is my understanding from what we have seen on this forum of members going to a local RD office and being advised that they don't qualify for a tax number because they have "exempted" income so not necessary to file tax forms so do not need a tax id.  Then we hear webinars  that give us some advice that we do need to get that tax id and file whether or not we have assessable income here even though not taxed.  I feel I will ot have to pay any Thai income tax on the funds I remit but would appreciate an official TRD interview to the press that ALL expats with ANY remitted funds needs to get a tax id and file or not.  my feelings anyway, as I like to follow any of the local rules and regulations and not just speculation.  I notice on every one of these different tax stories, one of the big problems is lac of credible information instead of GUESSES on what is expected of us.

 

Exactly my experience, (of going to my local TRD office in Silom, Bangkok), that the officers (staff) therein had only the simplest grasp of how a non Thailand income earning foreigner can show this assessable income on the PND90. The concept of assessable income accessed through a foreign bank by ATM or debit card, or FPS QR, and not transferred in the simplest sense by a telegraphic transfer is, in my direct experience, not a concept they can understand. If they cannot understand it, how are they supposed to assess a filing? Providing supporting documents is not a simple issue. The different change brought in by P161 & P162 does not provide any method by which the tax filing can be made on PND90. Certainly the tax officers I have spoken to do not seem to have any consistent answers, some of which include "no need to file", which contravenes P161 & P162. If the TRD has not bothered to think through HOW they expect Thailand tax residents to file, we are left with a complete shambles. It's the usual case of cart before the horse. I'm sure that's why they were glad to see the back of me.

 

 

46 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Just a guess on my part.

 

The Revenue Code in Thai Language is the " Master Copy and bible " English translations are for information only and in any dispute resolution, the Thai language copy will be the final arbiter.

 

Just like Thai Courts, only Thai language is used.

 

So, I doubt very much that we will ever get a Revenue Official making statements in the English Language.

 

Play safe, tax resident and remit income from 01 Jan 2024, try to file and be guided by your local tax office.

 

Whats the worst that can happen ? You might have to pay a few baht in tax, if you are unlucky.

 

Better than getting dragged over the coals at a later date.

 

 

 

Quote

be guided by your local tax office.

 

...see above🙄

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

Good luck trying to convince the TRD that your mothers' house is pre-2024 income! Good example.

It's my house 🙂 But yes, the Thai RD would have no idea my mother gave it to me years before. 

[samtam]

10 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

Apologies for causing confusion.  The example was only to illustrate the logic of the difficulty of trying to attribute a monetary value to pre-2024 income "savings," if not held in cash.

 

It appears that some advisers/experts are stating that only cash in the bank qualifies as pre-2024 income, referred to by AN users as "savings." This appears to be a practical approach to implementing P. 162 exempting taxation on pre-2024 income.  There must be some criteria to qualify as such and to form the basis for identifying that income when remitted subsequent to 1 January 2024.  

 

For example:  If I had a portfolio of stocks and some real estate bought over the years and the value of my portfolio and real estate on 31 December 2023 was $xxx,xxx, all bought from income derived pre-2024.  Then I sold some stocks and some land and remitted the funds into Thailand in 2024.  How is the TRD to assess the taxable value of your remittances? The capital gains can only be calculated by referring back to your cost bases of pre-2024 income and the subsequent capital gains remitted. Very messy, and now you are reporting on remittances of capital gains in 2024, while trying to claim exemption due to the unassessed value of your stocks or land as of the 31 December 2023 deadline. Unless those assets were converted to cash prior to 1 January 2024, there is no way to establish the cost basis of your pre-2024 "income" that is to be remitted subsequently.  This is the issue that Carl Turner is trying to address, and he claims that his advice is based upon close consultations with the TRD. 

 

The simplest and most practical approach is to limit the definition of pre-2024 income to "cash in the bank" as of 31 December 2023, despite the fact that no official definition of pre-2024 income exists in the tax code or regulations.  This is only the first year of an experimental remittance-based personal income tax system; no court cases exist and no rulings exist regarding the source of remitted pre-2024 income, or the implications of P. 162A regarding the acceptable/unacceptable exemption from taxation of assessable income when remitted.

 

The implications of exemption of pre-2024 "savings" under P. 162A will continue to reverberate for decades unless and until it is cancelled or superseded.  

 

 

Yes. They haven't thought it through, and there isn't a "one size fits all". Even the employment of an expensive accountant isn't going to bring clarity, if the TRD officers don't themselves have answers to the average Joe like me.

[Guavaman]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It's my house

Unfortunately, it appears that your cost basis is 0; thus, if you sell it, it's all taxable capital gain!

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

Unfortunately, it appears that your cost basis is 0; thus, if you sell it, it's all taxable capital gain!

Do you mean if one sells one's house in the UK, you must prove to the Thai RD that you bought it? 

I'd just gift the cash to my wife or kids I guess, it is worth around 19 million baht. 

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, Guavaman said:

I just spent an hour in a dialogue with a representative of the TRD on their hotline 1161 in Thai language.  Several times the TRD representative clarified my question and said: "Please hold while I check the information for your answer."  I have summarized our dialogue below.

 

Q1: If I remit U.S. Social Security benefit income, is it exempt from taxation?

A1: Remittance of U.S. Social Security benefit income is exempt from taxation.

 

Q2: Do I need to declare remittances of U.S. Social Security benefit income and file a tax return?

A2: There is no need to declare U.S. Social Security benefit income and no need to file a tax return for that income.

 

 

 

I thought your post about your discussion with the Thai RD help line relevant possibly in areas where you did not specifically discuss such. 

 

When discussing USA Social Security the Thai RD noted it was not taxable in Thailand and a Thai Tax form not to be submitted it for that.

 

I believe that the Thai-USA DTA notes such is exclusively (or only taxed) in the USA which per Royal Decree-18 means such income is exempt Thailand tax.

 

If other incomes in Thai DTAs are also exclusively (or only taxed) in the source country, and not Thailand, and also exempt Thailand tax (pre Royal Decree-18) than I think one could extrapolate that  a  Thai tax form is not to be submitted for those.

 

Typically (but not always) this applies to foreign civil servant/military pensions, and to all Canadian pensions (and remunerations), where if one extrapolates, those being tax exempt (per their DTAs and Royal Decree-18) are not to have a Thai tax form submitted to them.

 

Further Royal Decree-743 notes LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR-WFTP visa holders remitted income to Thailand is tax exempt. And again, here re: the LTR visa, the RD help line official stated no Thai tax return required for those exempt remitted incomes to Thailand.

 

If a Thailand tax return form needs not to be submitted for those exempt incomes (such as US Social Security and LTR selected visa holders), I think it supports a view that such DTA/LTR exempt incomes are not to be considered assessable income for the tax calculation and not considered assessable for the purpose of determining if a Tax return is needed to be submitted.

 

i concede others do NOT share my view - and I appreciate them if politely sharing their different view - but still - I include this as another point in support of my view that exempt income per a DTA (and LTR in selected categories) should not be considered assessable income for purposes of filing a Thai income tax return.

 

Of course this is my speculation - and speculation is just that -the same as everyone elses's speculation.

 

 

[SHA 2 BKK]

21 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

My mother put her house in my name 10 years ago. If she dies before me and I sell 'my' house, will this be taxable? 

You could argue that it is an "early inheritance".  My parents, who are still alive,  gave all us kids access to some of their estate.  A solicitor drew up the documents and its totally tax free in Australia - may hold true in Thailand but TIT.  My parents reasoned they didn't need that part of their estate and were pleased to see kids and grandkids (now also great grandkids) enjoy the inheritance whilst they are alive.  Unless the value is over 100m baht you may be on solid ground.

 

"Inheritance tax in Thailand, introduced in 2016, applies to both Thai nationals and foreigners. The tax is levied on the transfer of assets, including property, to heirs. This act applies to both Thai nationals and expatriates, with the tax levied on the value of inherited assets exceeding 100 million Baht. The tax rate is 5% for direct descendants and ascendants and 10% for other heirs."

 

https://kellerhenson.com/inheritance-tax-thailand/#:~:text=The inheritance tax rate in,Yes%2C there is a threshold.

[The Cyclist]

4 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Typically (but not always) this applies to foreign civil servant/military pensions, and to all Canadian pensions (and remunerations), where if one extrapolates, those being tax exempt (per their DTAs and Royal Decree-18) are not to have a Thai tax form submitted to them.

 

I have just booked my Interuptor for a lunch date tomorrow, followed by a visit to my local TD Office to ask the question ( Again )

 

* The last time I asked, I was told yes, and given a pencilled in PND 91, to use as a template.

 

Lets see what I am given tomorrow.