Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[Celsius]

1 minute ago, anchadian said:

Furthermore, this Thai language article appears to be aimed at Thais, no mention of foreigners.

 

 

Furthermore, this article in the Thai language appears to be directed to Thais.  There is no mention of foreigners.

Check first, be careful. Penalty for not filing taxes in the form of Por.Ngor.Dor. 90/91. Latest update from the Revenue Department. Citizens, government officials, business owners, online sellers, food or product delivery drivers, YouTubers, influencers.

 

When Chinese and Russians start filing their tax returns, so will I.

 

Until then 💋my🍑

[flexomike]

21 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I thought you were putting me on ignore.

 

[flexomike]

3 hours ago, Presnock said:

jUst had an American friend and has a state pension, not civil service so I advised him if he was concened about it to go to the RD local office in CM which he did and they asked him about his pension and if he paid taxes on it already which as an Amrerican we must pay our taxes always and the rd rep there told him that he therefore doesn't have assessable income so he doesn't need an ID number nor does he have to file taxes.  Just saying as we keep hearing this same story from different rd local reps.  

Not sure it that is what the DTA states, I was under the impression that only federal employees including the military are exempt 

[Sheryl]

All US  government pensions (regardless of whether ftom federal or state employment) and US social security are non-assessable in Thailand.

 

US private pensions are assessable in Thailand.

 

Not sure what people are talking about when they say sn American has a "state pension",  as not a terminology used  in US. 

 

Note this is sll specific to US DTA only. Not generalizable  elsewhere. 

[xxeo]

My second visit today at Jomtien Tax Office.

Bank statement is needed.

Health insurance is deductible.

Many forms, many signatures.

The Kingdom charged me a tax of 1,431 Baht.

I immediately accepted and paid.

Case closed, see you next year.

[Presnock]

26 minutes ago, flexomike said:

Not sure it that is what the DTA states, I was under the impression that only federal employees including the military are exempt 

google  "DTA US and Thailand english"....article 20/21 tells one what is taxable only by the US unless one is a Thai native that gets a US pension

[oldcpu]

31 minutes ago, xxeo said:

My second visit today at Jomtien Tax Office.

Bank statement is needed.

Health insurance is deductible.

 

I assume your health insurance is from a local Thailand branch of a health insurance company?  is that correct?

 

31 minutes ago, xxeo said:

Many forms, many signatures.

The Kingdom charged me a tax of 1,431 Baht.

I immediately accepted and paid.

Case closed, see you next year.

 

Is your income local (earned in Thailand income) or a pension from another country?  May I ask which country?  and is your pension a government pension (ie that of a civil servant or ex-military) or is a state pension (one that every citizen gets if they contribute to their county's pension system)?

 

[WDSmart]

I have only one question: Are transfer deposits of US Social Security retirement funds subject to Thai taxes? In other words, are US Social Security retirement payments considered "foreign income"?

[oldcpu]

45 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

All US  government pensions (regardless of whether ftom federal or state employment) and US social security are non-assessable in Thailand.

 

US private pensions are assessable in Thailand.

 

Not sure what people are talking about when they say sn American has a "state pension",  as not a terminology used  in US. 

 

Note this is sll specific to US DTA only. Not generalizable  elsewhere. 

 

I also find the 'state' pension terminology confusing (it is not used in Canada either to the best of my recollection).

 

My understanding is on this forum, when many say 'state' pension they mean the pension that most every citizen of a county gets if they (and/or their employer) contributed to their country's pension system.  And when they state 'government' pension, many mean a civil servant pension and/or a military pension.

 

As i noted before, all Canadian pensions (and similar remunerations) are taxable ONLY in Canada (and not in Thailand).  On the otherhand, Germany is the exact opposite, where my understanding German 'state' pensions (ie the one every German resident gets who contributed to the German pension system for a sufficient number of years) is taxable only in Thailand.  ... I can't recall off the top of my head if a German government pension (ie civil servant/military) is taxable in Thailand.

[TheAppletons]

19 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I have only one question: Are transfer deposits of US Social Security retirement funds subject to Thai taxes? In other words, are US Social Security retirement payments considered "foreign income"?

 

  Due to the USA/Thailand double tax agreement, US Social Security is classified as non-assessable income - meaning it can only be taxed by the United States.

 

  

[WDSmart]

Just now, TheAppletons said:

 

  Due to the USA/Thailand double tax agreement, US Social Security is classified as non-assessable income - meaning it can only be taxed by the United States.

 

  

Thanks! That's what I thought, but I was not sure. I was afraid since my SS payments are not taxed in the US, when I transferred those funds here, they would be eligible to be taxed in Thailand.

[xxeo]

My health insurance is Thai.

 

My pension or my income --- no question was asked, they did not want any definition. Only the amount of money transferred to Thailand from a foreign country, listed in the bank statement, was essential. They somehow took into account the intest on my Thai bank account.

 

I mean --- 1,431 Baht and that's it... I did nothing else but accepting.

[oldcpu]

8 minutes ago, xxeo said:

My health insurance is Thai.

 

 

Thanks.  For anyone reading, my understanding is only health insurance from the Thai branch of a health insurance company can be used in the Thai tax return as a deduction.

 

8 minutes ago, xxeo said:

My pension or my income --- no question was asked, they did not want any definition. Only the amount of money transferred to Thailand from a foreign country, listed in the bank statement, was essential.

 

That surprises me a bit.  This can be VERY different dependent on the source country of the pension.  For example, Canadian sourced pensions (and similar Canadian sourced remunerations) are NOT taxable in Thailand (and not to be included in Thai tax calculations) per the Thai-Canada Double Tax Agreement. But German state pensions (ie non-civil-service/non-miliary) pensions can ONLY be taxed in Thailand (if one a Thai tax resident). The source country and type of pension (civil-service/miltiary or every day citizen pension) can make a BIG difference per international agreements Thailand has agreed to (per Royal Decree-18).

 

 

8 minutes ago, xxeo said:

They somehow took into account the intest on my Thai bank account.

 

Also that is of interest. Typically there is a 15% with holding tax on your interest in a Thai bank account. So you may have already paid some Thai tax which is why that was considered !

 

[xxeo]

I think so. They tax our interest directly with 15 %, I probably got it back ...

 

... and had to fill another form. 😆

 

You undoubtedly can go deeper into the tax law here, and that makes sense if you expect to pay a higher amount to the kingdom. As for me, this amount was fully acceptable to close this case that caused concern among farang here for so many months.

[Jumbo1968]

My understanding is all these so called foreign accountants are practicing illegally in Thailand and it’s a restricted occupation under Thai Law. It’s the usual scaremongering by them to drum up business. Until I receive a communication from the tax office I will do nothing.

[Sheryl]

29 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Thanks! That's what I thought, but I was not sure. I was afraid since my SS payments are not taxed in the US, when I transferred those funds here, they would be eligible to be taxed in Thailand.

Regardless of whether you ended up owing tax on your SS income in the UD,  it is non-assessable in Thailand.

 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, Unamerican said:

@KhunHeineken

So how much does he think you should pay?   
It seems likely that:

Most normal people will not have to,pay snuthing. 

I minimized my remittances in 2024 and brought in some cash from Singapore when returning from the F1.  I also had a friend bring in cash from Australia. 

 

I'm not on a pension, but most pensions are over the threshold, so, there may be a small amount to pay for pensioners. 

 

I am expecting to pay some tax.  I don't mind paying some tax for the security of knowing I have done so and receiving  document from the TRD proving I have.  Therefore no nasty surprises further down the track, particularly at extension time. 

[Sheryl]

22 minutes ago, xxeo said:

...

 

22 minutes ago, xxeo said:

My pension or my income --- no question was asked, they did not want any definition. Only the amount of money transferred to Thailand from a foreign country, listed in the bank statement, was essential. 

 

There are more than 60 different DTAs so cannot expect provincial RD staff to know what is in them (some don't even know what a DTA is).

 

Source of income very much matters IF it is of a type not assessable in Thailand per the relevant DTA. 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, xxeo said:

My second visit today at Jomtien Tax Office.

Bank statement is needed.

Health insurance is deductible.

Many forms, many signatures.

The Kingdom charged me a tax of 1,431 Baht.

I immediately accepted and paid.

Case closed, see you next year.

What happened on your first visit?  Did you get "The Somchai Shuffle?"

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, Unamerican said:

What “threshold” is this, please?? 

Tax free threshold. 

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, flexomike said:

 

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

My understanding is all these so called foreign accountants are practicing illegally in Thailand and it’s a restricted occupation under Thai Law. It’s the usual scaremongering by them to drum up business. Until I receive a communication from the tax office I will do nothing.

It doesn't work that way. 

They won't ever contact you to ask to file except if you're being audited.

Like in most countries. ignorance of the law is not a valid excuse.

[Jingthing]

35 minutes ago, xxeo said:

My health insurance is Thai.

 

My pension or my income --- no question was asked, they did not want any definition. Only the amount of money transferred to Thailand from a foreign country, listed in the bank statement, was essential. They somehow took into account the intest on my Thai bank account.

 

I mean --- 1,431 Baht and that's it... I did nothing else but accepting.

Well if they recorded your remittances as accessable when they weren't under your DTA (you didn't say, do you know?) then something was not right. Maybe you don't care this year, but it might be an issue for you later.

[JimGant]

23 minutes ago, xxeo said:

Only the amount of money transferred to Thailand from a foreign country, listed in the bank statement,

How did you carve that up, using the DTA and Por 162? (Obviously, only you could provide the info)

1. 30% from govt pension, so non assessable per DTA

2. 10% from military pension, so non assessable per DTA

3. 30% from rental of home; secondarily assessable, but have to grant credit for tax paid to home country- DTA

4. 10% from private pension, so assessable income per DTA

5. 20% from pre 2024 savings, thus non assessable per Por 162

 

Re-reading your post, I see where they didn't ask you for any details. So just why did they ask for this information, as it doesn't drive assessable vs non assessable income to be filled in on your tax return? Lunacy.

 

[Jingthing]

50 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  Due to the USA/Thailand double tax agreement, US Social Security is classified as non-assessable income - meaning it can only be taxed by the United States.

 

  

Yes, and there is no place on the current tax form to even enter non-accessable remittances on the form. So if offices are putting them down as accessable pension income. that's just totally wrong.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

All US  government pensions (regardless of whether ftom federal or state employment) and US social security are non-assessable in Thailand.

 

US private pensions are assessable in Thailand.

 

Not sure what people are talking about when they say sn American has a "state pension",  as not a terminology used  in US. 

 

Note this is sll specific to US DTA only. Not generalizable  elsewhere. 

I think the same thing as a pension from being a state worker. 

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, Presnock said:

jUst had an American friend and has a state pension, not civil service so I advised him if he was concened about it to go to the RD local office in CM which he did and they asked him about his pension and if he paid taxes on it already which as an Amrerican we must pay our taxes always and the rd rep there told him that he therefore doesn't have assessable income so he doesn't need an ID number nor does he have to file taxes.  Just saying as we keep hearing this same story from different rd local reps.  

What about Americans that should pay tax?  How will the Thai government differentiate between pensioners and those who should pay?  It's by the Thai banks reporting, but they only see cash transfers, not the source of funds.

 

Can you see this being an issue in the future?  

 

As I said, why don't we all just say our remittances are non assessable?.  Close all these tax threads and forget about it. 

 

Ahhhh, but some members say the TRD haven't got the resources to audit every foreigner, and I agree, but what they can do is not grant an extension until an expat has a document from a TRD Office to proving the source of the remittances.       

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

I can't recall off the top of my head if a German government pension (ie civil servant/military) is taxable in Thailand.

Nope. Just in Germany. Their DTA pretty much looks like all the others, since they all follow pretty religiously the OECD and UN Model Tax Treaties. Actually, the only country's DTA I came across, where Thailand has primary taxation rights on civil service/military pensions is Norway. [And here, Norway will tax it all, if you can't show you paid tax to Thailand on it.]

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think the same thing as a pension from being a state worker. 

Can't assume that what they mean.  It is probably not.  The term "state pension" has a different meaning in  UK and Australia, referring to the governmrnt issued old age pensions there.  So a Brit or Aussie might mistakenly use it for what Is actualky US Social Security. 

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, Unamerican said:

@Jingthing How much, approx, income do you typically remit? 

It varies.

I intentionally remitted a lot in 2023 so that I wouldn't have to remit even one baht in 2024.

This year I will need to remit again. It's really based on my needs whether it's a normal year or a year that I have unusually high expenses.

As I own a condo, I don't have rent expense so that lowers it.