Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[Jingthing]

  On 2/10/2025 at 10:53 AM, Sheryl said:

Can't assume that what they mean.  It is probably not.  The term "state pension" has a different meaning in  UK and Australia, referring to the governmrnt issued old age pensions there.  So a Brit or Aussie might mistakenly use it for what Is actualky US Social Security. 

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Yeah I guess you're right. I was thinking in the U.S. context where it would mean what I said. State vs. federal. 

[Jingthing]

  On 2/10/2025 at 8:15 AM, Celsius said:

 

When Chinese and Russians start filing their tax returns, so will I.

 

Until then 💋my🍑

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How will you know?

[xxeo]

  On 2/10/2025 at 10:33 AM, KhunHeineken said:

What happened on your first visit?  Did you get "The Somchai Shuffle?"

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I got my tax identification number/TIN. In around 20 minutes. Bring the copies required.

[Celsius]

  On 2/10/2025 at 10:57 AM, Jingthing said:

How will you know?

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I will know when the mass deportations of Russians and Chinese start happening because of failure to file 🤣....

 

.....hold on.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

  On 2/10/2025 at 10:48 AM, KhunHeineken said:

What about Americans that should pay tax?  How will the Thai government differentiate between pensioners and those who should pay?  It's by the Thai banks reporting, but they only see cash transfers, not the source of funds.

 

Can you see this being an issue in the future?  

 

As I said, why don't we all just say our remittances are non assessable?.  Close all these tax threads and forget about it. 

 

Ahhhh, but some members say the TRD haven't got the resources to audit every foreigner, and I agree, but what they can do is not grant an extension until an expat has a document from a TRD Office to proving the source of the remittances.       

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The TRD does not grant extensions. Immigration does and there is no indication TRD will ask Immigration to do this for retirement extensions and no reason why they would want to. Foreign retirees are not a tax priority since  high percentage of them owe no little of no tax  in Thailand.

 

Credit advices  show the original source of foreign remittances. In my case they clearly show that every remittance csme from US Social Security.  Of course if people are remitting funds that first passed through their foreign bank accounts then proving source would be more complex. 

[Jingthing]

  On 2/10/2025 at 5:18 AM, Unamerican said:

What “threshold” is this, please?? 

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The threshold means the amount of accessible income where if you're under, you don't need to file a tax form. That is completely different than owing tax. In other words, it is common to be over the threshold to be required to file but be well under the level to pay any tax.

[Jingthing]

  On 2/10/2025 at 4:40 AM, daejung said:

A good reason not to live permanently in Thailand 

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Only in some cases. Needing to file and maybe pay tax is certainly a very unwelcome hassle but whether or not that extra burden would be heavy enough to rationally change your residency plans is purely an individual calculation. I'm imagining scenarios where people may be paying hundreds of thousands of baht to avoid paying ten thousand baht in Thai tax. Like it can be an irrational phobia.

[Jingthing]

  On 2/10/2025 at 2:29 AM, Felton Jarvis said:

I was led to believe that there might be jail time if one did not comply. Am I wrong?

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Technically it's possible but I reckon those would be cases of high amounts and blatant intent to evade tax. I think that people who are least trying to comply in good faith shouldn't worry much about such dire consequences.

[Celsius]

Japan expects 40 million tourists in 2025.

 

Long term expats (aka digital nomads) are making serious money in Japan. 

 

Japan.... one of the most unfriendly, xenophobic and anal countries on the planet.

 

Buh bye tourism if they dare to hassle even 1 retired mug in Thailand. The news spreads fast, just like with Chinese kidnapping. It will all be a misunderstanding.

 

I wouldn't listen to any loser here advising to file unless you have a work permit or rent out a property.

[Jingthing]

  On 2/9/2025 at 10:37 AM, redwood1 said:

Ok folks this threads new name is the KhunHeineken thread...

 

Where he can post his nonsense 24/7...

 

Just keep in mind if you post here your posting in his thread..

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The ignore list is your friend.

[oldcpu]

  On 2/10/2025 at 10:48 AM, KhunHeineken said:

...  what they can do is not grant an extension until an expat has a document from a TRD Office to proving the source of the remittances.       

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 Yes ... they might ... and they might not.

 

From the experience of many at the local Thai RD offices (and from the main Bangkok RD help line) there does not read to be much interest in the Thailand RD in going after foreigners to prove such remittance source  ... much much much less would be Thai immigration caring whether one has filed  a tax return.

 

Who knows?  We will just have to wait and see.

 

My view is to follow Thai tax law.  Also take note of relevant Minsterial Instructions and of relevant Royal Decrees and of DTAs.  Check if legally required to file a tax return noting NOT ALL INCOME is to be considered when evaluating the threshold to file a Thai tax return (in consideration of Royal Decrees, DTAs , and Ministerial directive).

 

i suspect (hope?) with time, there may be superior summary information IN ONE LOCATION with regard to foreign sourced income (taking into account Thai tax code, the country of source income, DTAs, Ministerial Instructions , and Royal Decrees).  At present one has to consider all and make an evaluation, as opposed to just one place/document.

[scottiejohn]

  On 2/10/2025 at 11:11 AM, Jingthing said:

The ignore list is your friend.

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But someone has to call out his dangerous posts to those who do not know about his scaremongering!

[JimGant]

  On 2/10/2025 at 10:48 AM, KhunHeineken said:

As I said, why don't we all just say our remittances are non assessable?.  Close all these tax threads and forget about it. 

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Or, how about we say some or our remittances are non assessable, while others are assessable. Let's call this novel notion: self-assessment. We fill out the tax return ourselves, using the grey matter between our ears -- and file online, or by mail, or drop box. No hand holding by TRD. And TRD's limited resources could then be restricted to compliance audits. And maybe -- this is why they're collecting bank statements but not analyzing them -- they're looking at the bottom number -- and a large remittance number but not a comparable tax return -- brings you to the front of the line for compliance audit.....

[NoDisplayName]

  On 2/10/2025 at 4:40 AM, daejung said:

A good reason not to live permanently in Thailand 

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Nah, this is easy, not a big change from the last decade or two.

 

A good reason would be worldwide taxation.

[NoDisplayName]

  On 2/10/2025 at 11:00 AM, Sheryl said:

The TRD does not grant extensions. Immigration does and there is no indication TRD will ask Immigration to do this for retirement extensions and no reason why they would want to.

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Our "American" lawyer agrees, as of posting 48 hours ago, no indication immigration wants to get involved in tax documentation for visas/extensions.

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

  On 2/10/2025 at 11:00 AM, Sheryl said:

The TRD does not grant extensions. Immigration does

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Yes, we all know that. 

 

  On 2/10/2025 at 11:00 AM, Sheryl said:

there is no indication TRD will ask Immigration to do this for retirement extensions and no reason why they would want to.

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Are you kidding?

 

At the moment, under the "self assessment" model, foreigners can simply say, "all my remittances are non assessable income."  That's it. Nothing to ensure compliance.

 

The reason why the order MAY come from Bangkok to immigration officers to demand a TRD document is to push every foreign tax resident who needs a visa / extension to go a TRD Office and prove source of income.  Is that soooooooo left left field to consider????

 

  On 2/10/2025 at 11:00 AM, Sheryl said:

Foreign retirees are not a tax priority since  high percentage of them owe no little of no tax  in Thailand.

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I agree, but they will just be collateral damage.  

 

  On 2/10/2025 at 11:00 AM, Sheryl said:

Credit advices  show the original source of foreign remittances. In my case they clearly show that every remittance csme from US Social Security. 

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Not everyone is American.

 

  On 2/10/2025 at 11:00 AM, Sheryl said:

Of course if people are remitting funds that first passed through their foreign bank accounts then proving source would be more complex. 

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You don;t say.   

[KhunHeineken]

  On 2/10/2025 at 12:18 PM, NoDisplayName said:

 

Our "American" lawyer agrees, as of posting 48 hours ago, no indication immigration wants to get involved in tax documentation for visas/extensions.

 

 

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Watch 13:10 to 13:45. 

 

He changes his mind.  He can see a "domestic clearance" being needed. 

 

He's your buddy.

 

Why did he change his outlook????

 

 

[OneManShow]

  On 2/10/2025 at 11:00 AM, Sheryl said:

  Of course if people are remitting funds that first passed through their foreign bank accounts then proving source would be more complex. 

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i talked to a tax office and they asked me a few questions about my income and transfers then told me that I need to file a tax return and Im not required to pay tax.
I got a copy of my "Benefit Verification Letter" from SS website and a copy of "You are not required to file a tax return" from IRS website (tax office asked me if I file tax return in the US). 

 

[FriscoKid]

  On 2/10/2025 at 2:26 AM, Felton Jarvis said:

Ben may be a "Thai Citizen" but I would bet that he couldn't get into the Grand Palace for free like most Thais.  One wonders what sort of person would voluntarily give up their American citizenship.  I still think he has the right idea about taxation of overseas income of farangs.

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He didn't give up his American citizenship. He dual. But an average of 6000 Americans give up their citizenship every year. I'm surprised there aren't more. 

[Presnock]

  On 2/10/2025 at 10:48 AM, KhunHeineken said:

What about Americans that should pay tax?  How will the Thai government differentiate between pensioners and those who should pay?  It's by the Thai banks reporting, but they only see cash transfers, not the source of funds.

 

Can you see this being an issue in the future?  

 

As I said, why don't we all just say our remittances are non assessable?.  Close all these tax threads and forget about it. 

 

Ahhhh, but some members say the TRD haven't got the resources to audit every foreigner, and I agree, but what they can do is not grant an extension until an expat has a document from a TRD Office to proving the source of the remittances.       

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Every American HAS to pay tax income unless that person doesn't meet the low threshold below the taxable amount.   If an American is also a Thai tax resident then that person either has an exemption in the DTA and if not then if he can be taxed by the Thai RD then if he has alread paid tax in the US on that income then I believe that he gets tax credits from the Thai side.  I by no means am anywhere near a tax expert.  I go by sources presented by forum users and tax agents to read for myself about my own finances and luckily, mine are very very simple and uncomplicated as it appears that many users here do have quite complicated financial dealings.  I can only speak for my self and what I have read and I try to link where I find that info.  Of concern to me, I find the necessary info on the Revenue Dept website and on the US-Thai DTA.  I see daily though that many obviously are still in the dark about their own situations and I see repeats after repeats.  Meanwhile the Thai government after changing the current tax situation and alluding to the possible future changes to come, have basically shut off any information for publication including providing particular tax forms even though we are now half way through the filing season.  Some users indicate that ALL foreigners must file even if they have no taxes to be paid as this is a change mandated by the revenue officials - yet I to date have seen several people talk about this but I have yet to see anything official from the Thai government.  Therefore, I will continue to do NOTHING different this year, unless I am asked to prove that I have no assessable income which I can easily do.  Best of luck to all tax residents, expat or local during this tax filing season.

[anchadian]

 

[Presnock]

  On 2/10/2025 at 9:33 AM, WDSmart said:

I have only one question: Are transfer deposits of US Social Security retirement funds subject to Thai taxes? In other words, are US Social Security retirement payments considered "foreign income"?

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non-assessable, thus not taxable by Thailand, only US 

[Presnock]

  On 2/10/2025 at 10:56 AM, Jingthing said:

Yeah I guess you're right. I was thinking in the U.S. context where it would mean what I said. State vs. federal. 

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that is why one needs to read their own DTA agreement to better understand what their taxation position is.

[Presnock]

  On 2/10/2025 at 9:33 AM, WDSmart said:

I have only one question: Are transfer deposits of US Social Security retirement funds subject to Thai taxes? In other words, are US Social Security retirement payments considered "foreign income"?

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NOT AT ALL! Only taxable by the US!

[anchadian]

 

[topt]

  On 2/13/2025 at 10:56 AM, anchadian said:

 

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Presuming you have watched it are there any specifics that you would pull out that add any clarity to any issues - all be it his view? 

Interesting disclaimer at the start........ 

[marino28]

today good news 
 

Look like they already want to change the law .

 

the details will come out in the next few weeks 

 

I don’t know if I am allow to post links from other website.

 

just google:

 

Thailand mulls tax breaks to attract overseas investment

[quake]

  On 2/14/2025 at 5:37 AM, marino28 said:

today good news 
 

Look like they already want to change the law .

 

the details will come out in the next few weeks 

 

I don’t know if I am allow to post links from other website.

 

just google:

 

Thailand mulls tax breaks to attract overseas investment

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I did and a Japanese porn site came up. 

 

[quake]

  On 2/14/2025 at 3:29 AM, topt said:

Presuming you have watched it are there any specifics that you would pull out that add any clarity to any issues - all be it his view? 

Interesting disclaimer at the start........ 

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No, but I enjoyed his reference twice to genital herpes. 

Think he should have put on long pants as he looked like the average shopper at Walmart.

 

 

[CapatainbeefheartB4]

https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report-international/thailand-may-ease-tax-rules-on-individuals-overseas-income