Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[motdaeng]

11 hours ago, Ricardo said:

... using foreign credit-cards, don't really count since the funds are never transferred into Thailand.

 

nice to have a real tax expert here. you seem very confident about your claim ... 

could you provide some sources? thanks.

[topt]

52 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

nice to have a real tax expert here. you seem very confident about your claim ... 

could you provide some sources? thanks.

You have truncated the quote and in doing so giving it a meaning that was not intended by the poster - I wonder why.........

[motdaeng]

2 minutes ago, topt said:

You have truncated the quote and in doing so giving it a meaning that was not intended by the poster - I wonder why.........

 

if i did that, i didn't mean to, sorry about that... maybe i misunderstood the post (english isn't my first language),

maybe you can help me understand what was really meant of "using foreign credit-cards, don't really count since

the funds are never transferred into Thailand?"

 

i do assume that the tax experts and tax lawyers from the TRD have addressed this in the fine print;

otherwise, this would be a simple loophole and an invitation for money laundering and tax evasion ... 

[topt]

12 hours ago, Ricardo said:

 

Just to point out that foreign-trips, financed via offshore-income & paid-for using foreign credit-cards, don't really count since the funds are never transferred into Thailand.

 

I also pay for the university-costs of one of my sons, entirely using overseas-generated funds, which never come near Thailand.  So aren't assessable, either.

This was his full quote.

If he meant paying university costs in Thailand then I don't necessarily agree except it seems very unlikely that it would be picked up at the moment. If paying for goods/services in other countries then nothing to do with remitting money into Thailand.

3 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

if i did that, i didn't mean to, sorry about that... maybe i misunderstood the post (english isn't my first language),

maybe you can help me understand what was really meant of "using foreign credit-cards, don't really count since

the funds are never transferred into Thailand?"

 

i do assume that the tax experts and tax lawyers from the TRD have addressed this in the fine print;

otherwise, this would be a simple loophole and an invitation for money laundering and tax evasion ... 

You assume wring about TRD addressing it. It was the subject of much debate in the long tax thread with diametrically opposing views. The other point is that there is very little "fine print" from the TRD relative to what many are used to from their home countries.

Saying that, from a practical perspective it would be, I believe, very difficult and time consuming for the TRD to pick up individual foreign credit card spend here unless auditing to a very high degree. 

[motdaeng]

5 minutes ago, topt said:

This was his full quote.

If he meant paying university costs in Thailand then I don't necessarily agree except it seems very unlikely that it would be picked up at the moment. If paying for goods/services in other countries then nothing to do with remitting money into Thailand.

You assume wring about TRD addressing it. It was the subject of much debate in the long tax thread with diametrically opposing views. The other point is that there is very little "fine print" from the TRD relative to what many are used to from their home countries.

Saying that, from a practical perspective it would be, I believe, very difficult and time consuming for the TRD to pick up individual foreign credit card spend here unless auditing to a very high degree. 

 

thanks for your explanation!

 

about the fine print: this year, we filed our (familiy) tax return for the first time online. we assumed that our daughter could deduct the full 100k for her life insurance. however, the online form only deducted about 67k. when we inquired with the TRD, we learned that, according to the fine print, our daughter does not have enough income to claim the full deduction!

this is not a problem for her, since she filed the tax return solely to get her refund of withheld tax. after just 10 days, she already received the money from the TRD. so far, so good! 

[mudcat]

This is an issue for myself whose income is is entirely non-assessible (U.S. Social Security, U.S. government agency pension, and LTR).  This means that my minuscule Thai bank account interest withholding is the only thing that any of my deductions can offset.  Even though I will file jointly with my wife, I don't think that this will benefit her or us, but it will demonstrate that I at least tried.

[KhunHeineken]

20 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Depends on your way of life, what you are happy with, is your Mrs working, have you paid house, bike and car off. Kids finished school. How many foreign trips. 

No offense to the member, but that amount of money would not give much by "a way of life, and the missus would have to work, and whilst one may own a property, it would need some maintenance, same with the car and bike, which one day would have to be replaced, and there wouldn't be much to give to the kids for weddings etc, and no overseas trips to places of notoriety. 

 

Everyone's circumstances are different, but I didn't work hard all my life to count every baht here in my retirement. 

[KhunHeineken]

16 hours ago, Ricardo said:

Just to point out that foreign-trips, financed via offshore-income & paid-for using foreign credit-cards, don't really count since the funds are never transferred into Thailand.

What if you are flying Thai Airways for overseas trips?  Are those funds not transferred to Thailand? 

 

 

[Ricardo]

53 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

What if you are flying Thai Airways for overseas trips?  Are those funds not transferred to Thailand? 

 

Currently flying frequently, using China-Eastern, haven't flown Thai for several years.  But even so, if I bought a ticket on them in Sterling, via an overseas-OTA and using an overseas-bank credit-card, then I definitely haven't transferred any money into Thailand which might be assessable, have I ?  The airline itself would probably only use the funds overseas, paying landing-charges or fuel-bills or catering-costs overseas, but it certainly couldn't be viewed (or reported by MasterCard to the TRD) as me transferring funds into Thailand.  What TG uses their income for is their problem, not ours.

 

No, I obviously didn't make myself very clear, in my post responding to KannikaP , Sorry about that !   I generally agree with what he said, about people being able to live simpler-lives here, within the avoiding-tax limits (mine's B500k p.a.).  But some things he listed like foreign-travel or overseas-school/uni-fees for our kids, well those can potentially be funded/paid-for without the money ever coming near Thailand, so you can avoid risking their becoming assessable.

 

OK that doesn't apply to everybody,  but it is possible for some people to spend money on overseas-activities, without the money being generated here or brought into Thailand.  You can sometimes have a better standard-of-living, than the level he had suggested, without it increasing your transfers into-Thailand.  In my own case, I certainly do.

[Ricardo]

Just to add another thought, one might perhaps  'Gift'  funds from overseas, to an adult (defined as over-18 ?) child living here, for them to fund their Thai-university costs without it being viewed (for tax purposes) as your own spending ?

[Ricardo]

15 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

nice to have a real tax expert here. you seem very confident about your claim ... 

could you provide some sources? thanks.

It's always good to chat with a fellow professional-accountant, like yourself.

 

Let's turn your question around, instead.

 

The TRD wants to tax expats on transfers into Thailand, agreed ?

 

Please explain, with sources, how a transaction in a foreign-currency taking place outside Thailand, and which is paid-for with a credit-card from a non-Thai bank, creates a potentially-taxable (or reportable) transfer into Thailand ?  

[steph83]

Hi, i live all year round in Thailand and I have been married to a Thai woman for over 15 years who has a daughter who is now 19 years old. She studies in university and i help her financially for her expenses. Can someone tell me if there is any allowance or deduction for me the taxpayer ?

Moreover, my wife woks, she has a salary of around 15,000 THB per month. Do i have the right of any allowance or deduction ?

 

Thank you so much for your answer 🙂

Cheers !

[jwest10]

Right as most of us have read and seen all these posts from so-many experts and a close friend a Thai was again asking  me  about this clear as mud income  tax  policy and yes his partner knows someone who works in the local Kanchanaburi Revenue Department and no do not fret too much and let them come to you as if going on their system and again and again been told you do not need to file a tax return
Do you work here??
No I do not so why are you trying to fill in a form and it is not needed in your circumstances and in any case the deductibles outweigh the income coming in and some of them are not listed and 2 are the 190K old age allowance and the 100k Pension allowance and the others not listed.

Come on how many have had the same issue and been told the same thing and mentioned have a pink ID card and so what you still do not need to file.

 

[anchadian]

29 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Right as most of us have read and seen all these posts from so-many experts and a close friend a Thai was again asking  me  about this clear as mud income  tax  policy and yes his partner knows someone who works in the local Kanchanaburi Revenue Department and no do not fret too much and let them come to you as if going on their system and again and again been told you do not need to file a tax return
Do you work here??
No I do not so why are you trying to fill in a form and it is not needed in your circumstances and in any case the deductibles outweigh the income coming in and some of them are not listed and 2 are the 190K old age allowance and the 100k Pension allowance and the others not listed.

Come on how many have had the same issue and been told the same thing and mentioned have a pink ID card and so what you still do not need to file.

 

Concur.  In short, if the deductibles and allowances (D/A) outnumber the foreign remittances, there is no need to obtain a tax ID and file a tax return.

 

 

[Badrabbit]

1 hour ago, jwest10 said:

Right as most of us have read and seen all these posts from so-many experts and a close friend a Thai was again asking  me  about this clear as mud income  tax  policy and yes his partner knows someone who works in the local Kanchanaburi Revenue Department and no do not fret too much and let them come to you as if going on their system and again and again been told you do not need to file a tax return
Do you work here??
No I do not so why are you trying to fill in a form and it is not needed in your circumstances and in any case the deductibles outweigh the income coming in and some of them are not listed and 2 are the 190K old age allowance and the 100k Pension allowance and the others not listed.

Come on how many have had the same issue and been told the same thing and mentioned have a pink ID card and so what you still do not need to file.

 

Been told 4 times " you won't pay tax" won't give me a TIN etc, good enough for me, fed up with all this scaremongering.

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

Been told 4 times " you won't pay tax" won't give me a TIN etc, good enough for me, fed up with all this scaremongering.

That's "The Somchai Shuffle." 

 

Gonna be funny for the guys that do actually have o pay tax, and get "The Somchai Shuffle." 

 

Interesting times ahead. 

[motdaeng]

i'm not sure if this is an old one or something new... don't shoot the messenger!

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/index-eng.html

 

[KhunHeineken]

13 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

i'm not sure if this is an old like or something new... don't shoot the messenger!

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/index-eng.html

 

The American lawyer in Thailand mentioned this in one of his youtube videos.  

 

Thailand used to have that system, and some countries still do. 

 

He said it was possible for some type of "domestic clearance system" to be implemented in the future.

 

I said a long time ago the day may come where there is an immigration overstay desk AND a TRD desk at airports and borders. 

 

This tax policy will evolve.  The Thai's will turn a baht out it for sure.

 

 

[roobaa01]

Gday

My opinion Thailand is playing ball with OECD rules to receive some comfort from Europe visa policy etc. 

But in reality the join brics countries thus OECD crab can be forgotten about including Thai tax matters.

 

Wbr

Roobaa01

[JimHuaHin]

On 1/27/2025 at 5:38 PM, SHA 2 BKK said:

I have a Government Service Lifetime Pension that is specifically mentioned in the Australian Thai DTA and is only assessable in Australia. 
 

Why will I be redirected to the TRD at time of next 5 year LTR stamp?   Who will direct me there?  BOI who have told me my income is tax exempt?    Please elaborate?  
 

As the Tax Officials and Carl Turner noted in the video posted earlier this morning there is simply no need to get a TIN and lodge a return if there is no “assessable income”.  As I noted in my post which you question: 

 

1. My remittances are from pre 2024 savings (bank statements printed and readily accessible online for the next 10 years). 
 

2.  My Government Service Pension is specifically mentioned in the Australian Thai DTA as not being assessable in Thailand.  
 

3.  I held an LTR Visa for the period which according to Royal Decree 743 excludes remitted income from taxation.  
 

So cobber I’m pretty comfortable in not wasting mine and the Thai RDs time. 
 

Everyone however is different including your good self.  
 

PS if you do own 10 rental properties outside of Thailand might pay you to do some research on the LTR Visa.  Might save you a quid.  

 

Apologies for the slow response - I am a little behind with my reading.

 

As a former long-time resident of Canberra, and a shorter-time (about 15 years) federal government public servant in Canberra (ABS and BACA), your post interests me; especially the following sentence  - "I have a Government Service Lifetime Pension that is specifically mentioned in the Australian Thai DTA and is only assessable in Australia."

 

Could you please provide the URL of the "Government Service Lifetime Pension" site - I did a Google search, but could not find it?

 

Secondly, after reading the Australia-Thai DTA (signed by then Treasurer Paul Keating in 1986, for memory) (and maybe I fell asleep, several times) I can recall no specific reference to "Government Service Lifetime Pension" which " ... is specifically mentioned in the Australian Thai DTA ...".   Section, clause and page numbers in the DTA would surfice.  As I stated above, I may have missed it.

 

Many thanks in advance.

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/18/2025 at 7:45 AM, Ricardo said:

But even so, if I bought a ticket on them in Sterling, via an overseas-OTA and using an overseas-bank credit-card, then I definitely haven't transferred any money into Thailand which might be assessable, have I ? 

No, but you've paid more for the air ticket. What costs more, dodging some tax, or paying more for the air ticket?  

 

Everyone has different circumstances.   

[Ricardo]

8 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

No, but you've paid more for the air ticket. What costs more, dodging some tax, or paying more for the air ticket?  

 

Everyone has different circumstances.   

You're assuming the ticket has cost me more.  Not sure why it would ?

 

Agree that everyone's situation is different.  I was just showing how some of us, with overseas-income & banking, can avoid using transferred-into-Thailand money to pay for overseas-travel (and hotel/living-expenses too, not only flights), and hence have a better standard-of-living within the limit set by the new rules, before having to pay tax & make a return.  The latter being hassle I'd always like to avoid, if possible.

 

I also disagree with your slightly-pejorative wording  "dodging some tax" !  I don't necessarily evade tax, which might well be technically illegal, but I do avoid tax-liabilities (and not just in Thailand) where possible, by arranging my affairs so as to not incur a liability.  I've been fairly successful at that, since I retired to Thailand, over two-decades ago.  It is my right to do so, and I intend to continue.  

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/26/2025 at 12:31 AM, Ricardo said:

You're assuming the ticket has cost me more.  Not sure why it would ?

Depends what you call "overseas travel" doesn't it?

 

Overseas travel coul be a flight to Vietnam with budget airline Vietjet which is very cheap.  Thai Airways charge more. 

 

On 2/26/2025 at 12:31 AM, Ricardo said:

I was just showing how some of us, with overseas-income & banking, can avoid using transferred-into-Thailand money to pay for overseas-travel (and hotel/living-expenses too, not only flights), and hence have a better standard-of-living within the limit set by the new rules, before having to pay tax & make a return. 

I've been minimizing my remittances since early 2024, opting to bring in some cash, and have some cash brought in for me. 

 

Once again, for "overseas travel" to minimize your tax here, it would have to be decent "overseas travel." 

 

On 2/26/2025 at 12:31 AM, Ricardo said:

I also disagree with your slightly-pejorative wording  "dodging some tax" !  I don't necessarily evade tax, which might well be technically illegal, but I do avoid tax-liabilities (and not just in Thailand) where possible, by arranging my affairs so as to not incur a liability.  I've been fairly successful at that, since I retired to Thailand, over two-decades ago.  It is my right to do so, and I intend to continue. 

Everyone should be trying to minimize their tax here.  It's just another bill to pay, so why not try to keep it as small as possible, whilst still remaining legal. 

 

You read too much into my word "dodging." 

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Once again, for "overseas travel" to minimize your tax here, it would have to be decent "overseas travel." 

 

Well I'm off to Cambodia again, short 1 hour flight, I'm going twice this year for a little over 3 months each time.

Definitely going to minimize my tax.

[Ricardo]

19 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

You read too much into my word "dodging." 

In that case, I apologise, I did indeed read it as being mildly critical.

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, Ricardo said:

In that case, I apologise, I did indeed read it as being mildly critical.

No need for an apology.  It was just lost in translation. 

 

It's common sense for farang to minimize their tax liability in Thailand. 

 

It's just another bill to pay living in Thailand full time, so why not try to make it as small as possible?  

[KhunHeineken]

21 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

Well I'm off to Cambodia again, short 1 hour flight, I'm going twice this year for a little over 3 months each time.

Definitely going to minimize my tax.

No doubt, many will be in the same position as yourself, perhaps myself included.  I will know more about my personal position later this month, and what magic the agent is capable of. 

 

I would suggest, when Thailand's tax bill is significantly greater than living in another country for 6 months, then Thailand no longer represents a value for money retirement destination, and one should consider spending 6 months of the year in another country. 

[cliveshep]

There vis no way at my age I'm getting a migraine reading all 77 pages of this stuff. So, for the British expats on here who ae pensioners like myself I offer this UK-Thai DTA text: 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80bddc40f0b623026953eb/uk-thailand-dtc180281_-_in_force.pdf

Specifically article 19 which seems to exclude pensions if I read it aright, perhaps others might be more enlightened. I pay tax on my UK pension, which is Keir Starmer's way of clawing back the triple lock increases and maintaining a British Pensioner in poverty, bearing in mind they have also cancelled the Winter Fuel Payment lifeline for so many. 

For interest - any tax on my pension would negate annual increases as the personal allowances haver not increased in line with inflation or indeed at all for over 5 years so not only the Labour Party are screwing people but also the previous Tory mismanagement. Plus given the absence of other treaties UK Pensions are "frozen". For those Brits who understand - Guy Fawkes was a great patriot who suffered an unfortunate mishap. We need another more successful one today! 

[Badrabbit]

Thought I would have a look at the Expat tax people, wow lots of money needed to get them to file a tax return, big money, no thanks. 

[topt]

9 hours ago, cliveshep said:

There vis no way at my age I'm getting a migraine reading all 77 pages of this stuff.

Where have you been for the last 18 months.....literally 1000's of comments with many about the UK DTA and what is covered and what isn't across multiple tax threads

 

9 hours ago, cliveshep said:

Specifically article 19 which seems to exclude pensions if I read it aright, perhaps others might be more enlightened.

The UK/Thai DTA states that Government pensions can only be taxed in the UK. By govt. that means civil service/armed forces and a few others but not the state pension or private pensions. So no, it only excludes government pensions.

 

It is easier to see it in the digest - which itself has been posted multiple times.....

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710099/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

 

Go to page 34 and Thailand and read point 4 on the far right.