Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[JimGant]

33 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

We want to gift offshore so that remittances are her gift, NOT my funds deposited in her account and then declared as a gift. 

Well, of course. Let's assume your wife had a US savings account, established ten years ago, and had on 12/31/2023 a balance of $500k. In that $500k were gifts you had given to her over the years. These gifts were, of course, after US tax paid funds (by you) -- thus now residing as her savings. So, today, on March 9, 2025, she wires $500k to her Thai bank account. A taxable event, considering Por 162? A reportable gift event, had the amount exceeded 20M baht? Of course not.

 

I think the use of her offshore savings account to launder these remittances could be looked at from a couple of angles. Say, you're separated from your wife, so the money she wires to herself is used strictly by her. Thus, a gift. But, on the other hand, I say your gift to her -- which you've paid US income taxes on -- has morphed into savings -- and thus the gift aspect is now a non player. So, if you're both living together in Thailand, and your private pension, now a gift to your wife, is sent to Thailand to support the both of you -- I think you're both technically and ethically above-board.

 

Again, this comes back to TRD suggesting the offshore 'laundering' route. Sounds like a good tax avoidance (evasion?) scheme. That TRD would recommend it -- is curious (but refreshing).

[NoDisplayName]

14 minutes ago, JimGant said:

In that $500k were gifts you had given to her over the years. These gifts were, of course, after US tax paid funds (by you) -- thus now residing as her savings. So, today, on March 9, 2025, she wires $500k to her Thai bank account. A taxable event, considering Por 162? A reportable gift event, had the amount exceeded 20M baht? Of course not.

 

Incorrect.  The limit of gifting spouses is 20 million baht per year.  She can save up all her 20M gifts for a decade, and bring in 200M in one swell foop as non-taxable gifts.  The 20M limit is on gifts received per year, NOT on gifts already gifted remitted into Thailand.

 

Yes, they may be in a passbook savings account, but they are still qualified gifts.

 

Remitting more than 20M probably is reportable, but not taxable.  The gifts are remitted over a decade, not received in one year.  

 

Same as when reporting carrying more than a designated amount of currency when flying.  Reportable, not taxable.

 

14 minutes ago, JimGant said:

I think the use of her offshore savings account to launder these remittances could be looked at from a couple of angles.

 

Perhaps look at them at an angle where they are not being laundered.  I am gifting, solely for her benefit.  I have no rights to the money gifted.  It will likely stay in her account as long as I breath.

 

14 minutes ago, JimGant said:

So, if you're both living together in Thailand, and your private pension, now a gift to your wife, is sent to Thailand to support the both of you -- I think you're both technically and ethically above-board.

 

I'm pretty sure that's both technically and ethically below-board.  A quick review of the gifting rules should tell you that.

 

14 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Again, this comes back to TRD suggesting the offshore 'laundering' route. Sounds like a good tax avoidance (evasion?) scheme. That TRD would recommend it -- is curious (but refreshing).

 

You missed the part where my wifi asked whether gifting oversees was allowed.  TRD did not "recommend" it over gifting in-country.  They simply confirmed that the rules for gifting IN Thailand apply for gifts given outside, as well.

[JimGant]

23 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

They simply confirmed that the rules for gifting IN Thailand apply for gifts given outside, as well.

"Wife called the TRD helpline to confirm, gifting law applies to funds given to a spouse into an offshore account, and she can bring in the funds as she pleases."

 

So, you're saying an offshore account can't act as a filtering/laundering device? Technically, it certainly can -- as I've demonstrated in the above discussion. Ethically, maybe not -- unless it truly is a gift to the wife.

 

But, what's the bottom line? You send your private pension directly to your wife's Thai bank account -- but make a note to yourself that this is a gift, thus you don't bother filing a Thai tax return. Alternatively, wife gets your gift thru her US savings account, then forwards it to Thailand. Same result -- no taxation. Only if an audit should occur, would her remittance vs yours stand up to scrutiny.

 

But, who cares. Chance of audit remote -- play the gift game as you choose.

[NoDisplayName]

24 minutes ago, JimGant said:

So, you're saying an offshore account can't act as a filtering/laundering device? Technically, it certainly can -- as I've demonstrated in the above discussion. Ethically, maybe not -- unless it truly is a gift to the wife.

 

I'm not saying that at all.  You just want to hear it.

This is the disconnect.

 

I'm actually gifting money to the wifi.

Not evading tax, not laundering, not filtering.

 

I could remit non-assessable money into my/her account and gift without tax, but then I have transfer fees and foreign exchange fees, twice, as she'd send it back out to invest.

 

If I gift offshore, we save the transfer and forex fees.  She can invest in US ETF's, non-dividend payers that appreciate 8-10%/year.  Foreign investors pay tax on dividends, but NOT on capital gains.  She can invest for higher returns, tax-free in the US, and only pay tax on remitted capital gains as ordinary income, which would likely be below her TEDA at that time anyway.

 

I want a bigly sum sitting there, as the transfer of my brokerage account to her requires IRS documents that take up to a year to process.

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Not exactly.  If the gifting laws are abused to evade taxes, then you may have problems if caught.  If the gifting laws are followed, you'll be fine. 

 

Wife called the TRD helpline to confirm, gifting law applies to funds given to a spouse into an offshore account, and she can bring in the funds as she pleases.  NOT for OUR daily expenses, of course, or for the donor's benefit.

 

I mean, like, dude, really........this particular law was written by those with wealth for their patrons with wealth to reduce their tax burden.  Otherwise why set the limit at 20 million baht per year in a land of subsistence farmers.

Good Luck to you with your "gifting" method. 

 

Everyone has different circumstances and risk profiles. 

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Who got a "certificate of clearance"?

I must have missed that.

 

Do you mean a receipt for filing tax?

I've got a bunch of those.

How 'bout you?

 

Read back in the threads.  It has been reported by members. 

[NoDisplayName]

9 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Read back in the threads.  It has been reported by members. 

 

Read back thousands of pages?

I don't think so.

Some have spoken of potential need to obtain a "tax clearance certificate."

Some fear-mongers have claimed it will be needed at immigration for extensions.

None that I am aware of have actually procured this holy writ of unobtainium.

 

You could be the game-changer!

Time is running out, only 3 weeks left.

File and get your "TCC" quickly, quickly.

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/8/2025 at 1:54 PM, Yumthai said:

Sounds like a cheap fortune teller.

Good Luck doing nothing and relying in TiT.  Others are more proactive and will have their a** covered.  

 

On 3/8/2025 at 1:54 PM, Yumthai said:

Rather do nothing than frauding.

I'll have a document from the TRD.  What will you have?  Zero.  Be prepared to pay up big time, to make it go away.  Oh, and by the way, your extension is due in 2 days, or your flight leaves in 1 hour.  You will pay whatever they demand. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/8/2025 at 2:00 PM, topt said:

So 3 hours ago I asked you in another thread have you filed yet - as you have said before you would be. As time is passing or are you still prevaricating?

Normally so quick to respond......

I also asked if you planned to declare the cash you had brought in from your foreign trips - whether last year or this - so?

I answered in the other thread. 

 

As for the "3 hours" I couldn't care less.  I'll answer when I am next signed in. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/8/2025 at 2:23 PM, rough diamond said:

Will you actually believe whatever answer, if any, that you get?

I have been very forthright in my approach to this Thai tax policy. 

 

What have you posted about it????

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/8/2025 at 2:27 PM, rough diamond said:

What "magic piece of paper" and what does it do?

Member Felt 35 has answered your question. 

 

I suggest you click on his link/s and educate yourself. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/8/2025 at 2:37 PM, topt said:

 

Same same, but different perhaps............

See Felt 35's links. 

[CallumWK]

33 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Read back in the threads.  It has been reported by members. 

 

Nothing like that has been reported by members, since there isn't such a claim yet.

The only posts are your unfounded scaremongering posts that immigration will demand them, while immigration has already said in public statements that have no intention to get involved with the revenue department

[KhunHeineken]

23 hours ago, Felt 35 said:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/21977.html

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/21978.html

Thanks Felt35.  You beat me to it. 

 

In my opinion, and that of many others also, it will be the Thai's "go to" method to ensure compliance by foreigners.  

 

The certificate will be needed for an extension, or to leave Thailand, in the future.

[KhunHeineken]

13 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

I'm am sick of this thread, agents trying to drum up business, tax office said "you won't need to.pay tax, what is a certificate of clearance, you don't need a TIN, you don't need to file a tax return, Expat tax want a fortune just to get advice, go away.

If it makes you feel comfortable to do nothing, than do nothing.  It is your right. 

 

There are two ways of thinking between expats on this forum.  One is, TiT, it will all go away.  The other is, the Thai's may use this to extort money out of foreigners, maybe not this year, but in the future.  

 

File, declare, pay or no pay, get the piece of paper, all clear.  Do nothing, well, you roll the dice.  

 

Funny how those relying on TiT for it to go away think authorities will be law abiding when the day comes and they don't have a clearance certificate. Then, it's TiT for why they had to pay up, big time.  

[KhunHeineken]

12 hours ago, JimGant said:

No, we've not seen any evidence of anyone exiting Thailand being asked for this certificate. Maybe a remote chance, if you're running a business here in Thailand...

So no chance at all, absolutely zero chance, they reinstate the policy.  Is that your stance?  Go on the record. 

[NoDisplayName]

9 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Thanks Felt35.  You beat me to it. 

 

In my opinion, and that of many others also, it will be the Thai's "go to" method to ensure compliance by foreigners.  

 

The certificate will be needed for an extension, or to leave Thailand, in the future.

 

Dude, that's not Felt35 obtaining a "Tax Clearance Certificate."

 

Those are links to "vestigial" documentation.

 

Got anything where someone has actually gotten one of these sacred indulgences?

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, beammeup said:

OK so wife needs a new car, I can gift her the money and she can transfer from our joint offshore account into her local account. No tax obligation for her or me?

Good Luck with that.

 

The next thread will be, "Can I gift my staff their salary so they don't have to pay tax?"  

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Read back in the threads.  It has been reported by members. 

 

Okay, I done it.  I searched on "tax clearance certificate" and went back several pages, or 'bout 6 months.

 

Not one person claiming to have obtained one.

 

But lots of people warning that the day is coming.

Strangely enough they all have a "K" as their avatar.

[beammeup]

9 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Good Luck with that.

 

The next thread will be, "Can I gift my staff their salary so they don't have to pay tax?"  

What are you laughing at? Its a serious question. Can you explain why this would not fit within the gifting laws?

[Yumthai]

10 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Others are more proactive and will have their a** covered.

Being more proactive is not the way to go in Thailand. Sadly, one day or another they'll learn the hard way.

 

10 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I'll have a document from the TRD.

Your doc will have been shadily obtained.

 

10 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

What will you have?  Zero.  Be prepared to pay up big time, to make it go away.  Oh, and by the way, your extension is due in 2 days, or your flight leaves in 1 hour.  You will pay whatever they demand.

In the very unlikely event you describe it'd be a matter of a couple of thousands at worst, certainly less than your agent fees. I'm fine with that.

[motdaeng]

10 minutes ago, beammeup said:

What are you laughing at? Its a serious question. Can you explain why this would not fit within the gifting laws?

 

can you please explain the terms and conditions for "gifting within the law"?

 

ideally, this explanation should be supported by a reputable tax lawyer or one of the major law firms.

defining gift tax law by an asennow member doesn't seem like a reliable source to me ... 

 

i can imagine that wealthy and influential thai people fully take advantage of this gift option ... but they definitely

cover all their bases with a tax lawyer and have probably already negotiated with the tax office ...

this is a league where we foreigners are not allowed or able to play ... 

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, beammeup said:

What are you laughing at? Its a serious question. Can you explain why this would not fit within the gifting laws?

 

Gifts are gifts.

Salary is compensation for work provided, unless your name is Hunter.

 

Otherwise, I can go buy cigarettes and beer at the seventy-leven and pay by gift, avoiding the 7% VAT. 

[beammeup]

OK lets try this again, I gift my wife 1 million baht. she transfers this 1 million baht to her Thai bank from our joint offshore account. This is not a salary she is not an employee, If she buys beer and cigs with it what dif would that make. Its a gift. How does this not fit (in your view) within the gift rules?

 

furthermore: if she buys a car with it the only benefit I would get from it is that I wouldn't need to drive her to get her nails done.

[motdaeng]

1 hour ago, beammeup said:

OK lets try this again, I gift my wife 1 million baht. she transfers this 1 million baht to her Thai bank from our joint offshore account. This is not a salary she is not an employee, If she buys beer and cigs with it what dif would that make. Its a gift. How does this not fit (in your view) within the gift rules?

 

furthermore: if she buys a car with it the only benefit I would get from it is that I wouldn't need to drive her to get her nails done.

 

"How does this not fit (in your view) within the gift rules?"

 

don't ask us (aseannow members), ask the TRD ... but hey, it's up to you ... do whatever makes you happy ... 

[beammeup]

1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

 

"How does this not fit (in your view) within the gift rules?"

 

don't ask us (aseannow members), ask the TRD ... but hey, it's up to you ... do whatever makes you happy ... 

"dont ask us"?? whats the point of this platform if you cant ask questions? I have the information from the TRD websites. Its not exactly very clear, which is why I am throwing this question in here to see if someone a little more inciteful  might have an opinion that reinforces my view. There are some who have recently asked the TRD these questions, I was hoping for a response from them.

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, beammeup said:

OK lets try this again, I gift my wife 1 million baht. she transfers this 1 million baht to her Thai bank from our joint offshore account. This is not a salary she is not an employee, If she buys beer and cigs with it what dif would that make. Its a gift. How does this not fit (in your view) within the gift rules?

 

furthermore: if she buys a car with it the only benefit I would get from it is that I wouldn't need to drive her to get her nails done.

 

It all comes down to whether you as the donor are receiving benefit from the gifted funds.  However, it's all a gray area and very much up to interpretation.

 

Clear cut examples are easy.  If you gift money that is used for daily living expenses for both of you, that should be disallowed.  If you gift money used for daily living expenses for your wife's mother, allowed.

 

Houses and cars are..........complicated.  I would say if the house and/or car is put in her name, then it should be allowed, regardless of whether you incidentally live/drive within.  Others argue the opposite.

 

The system is primed for corruption as ,in my opinion, that was the original intent.  The laws are written by wealthy politicians to protect their wealth and that of their wealthy acquaintances.  No need for a 20 million baht gift clause in a nation composed mainly of subsistence farmers.  Same reason capital gains on stock and mutual fund sales are tax free, and why Thai mutual funds (holding foreign funds that pay dividends) don't pay dividends.

 

We'll have to wait until someone gets flagged for an audit and has to document their gifts.

[KhunHeineken]

11 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Being more proactive is not the way to go in Thailand.

Yet, everyone is extremely proactive when it comes to visas / extensions and meeting their requirements. 

 

Strange that some do not view the Thai tax laws in the same light. 

 

11 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Your doc will have been shadily obtained.

No.  Why do you say that? 

 

I will be declaring the exact amount of my remittances to Thailand. which is exactly what the Thai authorities know anyway.  That said, I have been minimizing my remittances. 

 

11 hours ago, Yumthai said:

In the very unlikely event you describe it'd be a matter of a couple of thousands at worst, certainly less than your agent fees. I'm fine with that.

Link please?

 

When you leave yourself exposed here, the sky is the limit.  They will have you by the b*lls. They will know it, and so will you. 

[KhunHeineken]

11 hours ago, beammeup said:

What are you laughing at? Its a serious question. Can you explain why this would not fit within the gifting laws?

Why don't you gift your wife, and your wife gifts you, so neither of you pay any tax?  It's that easy. 

[KhunHeineken]

20 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Okay, I done it.  I searched on "tax clearance certificate" and went back several pages, or 'bout 6 months.

 

Not one person claiming to have obtained one.

 

But lots of people warning that the day is coming.

Strangely enough they all have a "K" as their avatar.

There have been several posts from members who have filed, declared, paid or not paid, and been issued a document for the TRD. 

 

I recall member Scouse123 go "The Somchai Shuffle" on a few occasions until he showed the TRD staff an email from his Thai bank.  They then allowed him to file, declare, and leave the office with the magic piece of paper which means he will have no troubles in the future.  

 

I suggest you be the test case for the forum for doing nothing in relation to this Thai tax policy.  We can follow your progress, or otherwise.