Tax files

[Presnock]

52 minutes ago, digger70 said:

If one Paid tax on ones pension than it's covered by the DTA .If one didn't pay tax on ones pension it's classed as an Income and is  taxable in Thailand if one Brings the funds in Thailand.

depends if it meets the necessary amount to be assessable as some anuaties do not pay a whole lot of money.

[HuaHinNew]

On 1/20/2025 at 7:39 PM, Will B Good said:

Second page, item 7.....do not like the look of that!!!!

More useless time and money wasted as Thailand refuses to acknowledge internation business is mostly done in English

 

You think any international tax documents Thais retrieve are going to be in Thai, NO!

 

Why Thailand will always be a Third World country until they embrace international business standards

 

AI Quote " 

English is the most commonly used language for international business transactions. It is often considered the global business language due to its widespread use and acceptance in many countries around the world. This makes it the go-to choice for cross-border communication, contracts, and negotiations.

"

[digger70]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

depends if it meets the necessary amount to be assessable as some anuaties do not pay a whole lot of money.

Like they said if no tax is paid in the Home country it is classed as an income and is Taxable in Thailand it doesn't depend on the size of the pension or income. 

On how much tax  one has to pay is up to Tax department in Thailand.

[mudcat]

16 hours ago, Guavaman said:

 

https://rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/america_t.pdf

Thanks for your help - it is difficult navigated Thai bureaucracy when one does not speak Thai.

 

I have created pdfs Thai and English text for each article with the RD source link for the article 1, 20, and 21.

I attach jpgs of the pdfs - if you wish me to send the pdfs or word files send me a private message.

 

Hopefully having the documents in front of the officer will spare my arms from excessive gesturing.

 

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, digger70 said:

Like they said if no tax is paid in the Home country it is classed as an income and is Taxable in Thailand it doesn't depend on the size of the pension or income. 

On how much tax  one has to pay is up to Tax department in Thailand.

iF you have an LTR, all foreign income is remitted tax exempt, and if the pension amount is below one's country's tax chart, then no taxes are paid to the home country yet the money does not meet assessabel amount so no tax id or filing is required on those funds remitted.  

[newbee2022]

33 minutes ago, Presnock said:

On how much tax  one has to pay is up to Tax department in Thailand.

Yeah, they use a dice or a crystal ball.

I opened this thread 3 days ago. And there are still question?

Amazing🤣

[Presnock]

22 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Yeah, they use a dice or a crystal ball.

I opened this thread 3 days ago. And there are still question?

Amazing🤣

the lawyer from the TRD said in response to what happens if you should file but don't and the lawyer said and the other TRD official said, the best thing to do if not sure is to look in the rd.go.th and check as it specifies what needs to be assessable income.  Then get a Tax ID file and the rd will determine if any tax should be paid or a refund if too much tax was paid. I thoughtit was pretty clear that if one has exempt remitted funds, no id or filing.  They also said if one remits funds into the country but doesn't file, they must keep accurate documentation in case the rd asks them about those remittances.  My case is easy to do in all aspects and I remit quite a bit each year all exemt and I have yearly documentation proving just that it is exempt so I am not worried at all.

[Presnock]

On 1/22/2025 at 11:07 AM, nikom56 said:

Am I missing something here? Most of the people here in the forum or in other forums discussing how to file their tax returns even though they come from countries that have a double taxation agreement with Thailand, have they all been written to and asked to file their taxes?

Well I think that is incorrect info being given in that the DTAs do not exempt all income uch as the US- allincome is taxable there by law if you are a US citizen anyway but some pension and other income is not protected by the DTA but is taxable by the Thais.  Just read the DTA for your country and it should psecify what is and what isn't taxable by Thailand.   But as this is TIT, thy might do as other places have too and not tax retirees at all in hopes of getting many to come there.

[newbee2022]

27 minutes ago, Presnock said:

the lawyer from the TRD said in response to what happens if you should file but don't and the lawyer said and the other TRD official said, the best thing to do if not sure is to look in the rd.go.th and check as it specifies what needs to be assessable income.  Then get a Tax ID file and the rd will determine if any tax should be paid or a refund if too much tax was paid. I thoughtit was pretty clear that if one has exempt remitted funds, no id or filing.  They also said if one remits funds into the country but doesn't file, they must keep accurate documentation in case the rd asks them about those remittances.  My case is easy to do in all aspects and I remit quite a bit each year all exemt and I have yearly documentation proving just that it is exempt so I am not worried at all.

Yes, easy as that

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, digger70 said:

If one Paid tax on ones pension then it's covered by the DTA  no matter what the pension is.

What are you basing this on?

 

Do you have a link? 

[KhunHeineken]

20 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

NOOOOO....don't start this again.....5555

I know, I know. 

 

It's just soooooooo many expats see the word "pension" in the DTA, and ignore the words "government service" and think that because their government gives them an old aged pension, which is welfare, it's therefore a "government pension" so covered in the DTA.  

 

They totally disregard the word "service."   

 

[digger70]

52 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

What are you basing this on?

 

Do you have a link? 

For expats living in Thailand, DTAs are crucial in ensuring that income like overseas pensions isn't subject to double taxation. If you've paid taxes on your pension in the country where it was earned, a DTA allows you to either exempt that income from Thai tax or claim a tax credit to offset the Thai tax liability.Oct 2, 2567 BE

[KhunHeineken]

17 minutes ago, digger70 said:

For expats living in Thailand, DTAs are crucial in ensuring that income like overseas pensions isn't subject to double taxation. If you've paid taxes on your pension in the country where it was earned, a DTA allows you to either exempt that income from Thai tax or claim a tax credit to offset the Thai tax liability.Oct 2, 2567 BE

Correct. 

 

So, you are basically saying it;'s either exempt in Thailand, or Thailand can tax it IF Thailand's rate is higher. 

 

The DTA "myth" is, if it's taxed in my home country, then Thailand doesn't get to tax it at all.  That's incorrect. 

[oldcpu]

32 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Correct. 

 

So, you are basically saying it;'s either exempt in Thailand, or Thailand can tax it IF Thailand's rate is higher. 

 

The DTA "myth" is, if it's taxed in my home country, then Thailand doesn't get to tax it at all.  That's incorrect. 

 

Indeed. 

 

And further to your point some DTAs even say that (if pension not a civil servant/military pension) then the pension can only be taxed in the country of residence ... For example German pensions for those who are not civil servants/military pensioners are not to have their pensions taxed in Germany (if one is a resident of Thailand), but can only be taxed in Thailand .

 

... and then there is the Canada-Thai DTA that pretty much states any Canadian sourced pensions (or similar remunerations) can ONLY be taxed in Canada (and not taxed in Thailand ,even if one a resident of Thailand).

 

The two DTAs could not be much more different in that aspect.

 

IMHO it simply underscores  the importance to check the DTA with Thailand of the source country of one's pension (where many on this and other threads on AseanNow have noted the importance to check such).

[KhunHeineken]

28 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Indeed. 

 

And further to your point some DTAs even say that (if pension not a civil servant/military pension) then the pension can only be taxed in the country of residence ... For example German pensions for those who are not civil servants/military pensioners are not to have their pensions taxed in Germany (if one is a resident of Thailand), but can only be taxed in Thailand .

 

... and then there is the Canada-Thai DTA that pretty much states any Canadian sourced pensions (or similar remunerations) can ONLY be taxed in Canada (and not taxed in Thailand ,even if one a resident of Thailand).

 

The two DTAs could not be much more different in that aspect.

 

IMHO it simply underscores  the importance to check the DTA with Thailand of the source country of one's pension (where many on this and other threads on AseanNow have noted the importance to check such).

The problem seems to be in the words "government service pension" in DTA's.  

 

In many countries, my country, Australia, included, the government pays an old aged pension.  It's known as a welfare payment in Australia, and a benefits payment in the UK. 

 

Many members are of the belief that because the "government" pays it, it's covered in the DTA.  It's not, but many refuse to accept this. 

 

These members are of the belief they do not have to file because their "government pension" is covered in a DTA.  If asked, did you EVER work in the public service in your country, they answer "no" but still argue their aged pension is covered by a DTA.  They will be in for a shock. 

 

 

[oldcpu]

4 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The problem seems to be in the words "government service pension" in DTA's.  

 

In many countries, my country, Australia, included, the government pays an old aged pension.  It's known as a welfare payment in Australia, and a benefits payment in the UK. 

 

Many members are of the belief that because the "government" pays it, it's covered in the DTA.  It's not, but many refuse to accept this. 

 

These members are of the belief they do not have to file because their "government pension" is covered in a DTA.  If asked, did you EVER work in the public service in your country, they answer "no" but still argue their aged pension is covered by a DTA.  They will be in for a shock. 

 

 

 

Yes - I find the words "state pension" or "government pension" as used by some on Aseannow a bit ambiguous, which is why I avoided using such words in my post.  The DTAs, to the best of my knowledge, are more precise in defining the pensions (noting such for services rendered to government where applicable) - and IMHO don't have those ambiguities.

 

[Presnock]

16 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

What are you basing this on?

 

Do you have a link? 

Depends on the country's DTA, as US DTA says civil service pensions are only taxable by the US but that state and private pensions can be taxed by the county in which the US citizen is a tax resident i.e. THAILAND.  We all have had the opportunity to link to the TRD many times and you are well aware of where it is or you can just google DTA for whatever country you want.

[Presnock]

17 hours ago, Presnock said:

Well I think that is incorrect info being given in that the DTAs do not exempt all income uch as the US- allincome is taxable there by law if you are a US citizen anyway but some pension and other income is not protected by the DTA but is taxable by the Thais.  Just read the DTA for your country and it should psecify what is and what isn't taxable by Thailand.   But as this is TIT, thy might do as other places have too and not tax retirees at all in hopes of getting many to come there.

what the problem that some people obviously do not seem to understand.  If you are in this country (Thailand) more than 179 days in a calendar year, you are the definition of a TAX RESIDENT.  Now as a US citizen you are still required to file your income tax in the US with the IRS even though your country has a DTA with Tghailand so you should become familiar with it and read and understand what it says.  i.e. NON repeat NON civil service pension can be taxed by Thailand , only US govt civil service pensions can be taxed solely by the US IRS and Thailand can tax state pensions or private pensions - this then allows you to get a tax credit from the Thais,  lowering your US tax.  I am unsure about all the remaining DTA as I am only concerned about my pension and what the DTA says about that.

DTAs in ENGLISH or Thai are easily found on the internet!  They are also within the English version of the TRD "www.rd.go.th.com"

[newbee2022]

14 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

The problem seems to be in the words "government service pension" in DTA's.  

 

In many countries, my country, Australia, included, the government pays an old aged pension.  It's known as a welfare payment in Australia, and a benefits payment in the UK. 

 

Many members are of the belief that because the "government" pays it, it's covered in the DTA.  It's not, but many refuse to accept this. 

 

These members are of the belief they do not have to file because their "government pension" is covered in a DTA.  If asked, did you EVER work in the public service in your country, they answer "no" but still argue their aged pension is covered by a DTA.  They will be in for a shock. 

 

 

The difference is: state pension is guaranteed by state but private Pension (by companies) is granted but not guaranteed 

[Presnock]

17 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

Yeah, they use a dice or a crystal ball.

I opened this thread 3 days ago. And there are still question?

Amazing🤣

Since the tax in Thailand issue began many moons and messages ago, and since so little information has been forthcoming from the TRD, forum users concerned or not with the tax issue still continue to GUESS what the final situation might be in the whole world and like all the other offices i.e. immigration, traffic police, etc, every local office has its own interpretation of a particular law.  All we can hope I guess too is for all to be happy with the final situation.

[newbee2022]

3 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Since the tax in Thailand issue began many moons and messages ago, and since so little information has been forthcoming from the TRD, forum users concerned or not with the tax issue still continue to GUESS what the final situation might be in the whole world and like all the other offices i.e. immigration, traffic police, etc, every local office has its own interpretation of a particular law.  All we can hope I guess too is for all to be happy with the final situation.

Yes, these words are good to end my thread. Thank you.

[Presnock]

15 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

Indeed. 

 

And further to your point some DTAs even say that (if pension not a civil servant/military pension) then the pension can only be taxed in the country of residence ... For example German pensions for those who are not civil servants/military pensioners are not to have their pensions taxed in Germany (if one is a resident of Thailand), but can only be taxed in Thailand .

 

... and then there is the Canada-Thai DTA that pretty much states any Canadian sourced pensions (or similar remunerations) can ONLY be taxed in Canada (and not taxed in Thailand ,even if one a resident of Thailand).

 

The two DTAs could not be much more different in that aspect.

 

IMHO it simply underscores  the importance to check the DTA with Thailand of the source country of one's pension (where many on this and other threads on AseanNow have noted the importance to check such).

another excellent message for all - note different DTAs could be 100% different from others, thus ignore what one member that quotes with his country DTA unless you too are from that country.   The only sure way to be aware of your country's DTA is to read it for yourself!

[digger70]

17 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Correct. 

 

So, you are basically saying it;'s either exempt in Thailand, or Thailand can tax it IF Thailand's rate is higher. 

 

The DTA "myth" is, if it's taxed in my home country, then Thailand doesn't get to tax it at all.  That's incorrect. 

Thailand can tax it if they think that one has't paid Enough tax  to there liking n the Home country according to the New Tax rule 

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, digger70 said:

Thailand can tax it if they think that one has't paid Enough tax  to there liking n the Home country according to the New Tax rule 

 

I thought you just received a tax credit for tax paid in your home country?

 

If the tax credit is more than you would have paid in tax in Thailand....then no tax to pay in Thailand.

 

Is that how it works?

[oldcpu]

12 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Thailand can tax it if they think that one has't paid Enough tax  to there liking n the Home country according to the New Tax rule 

 

What tax rule is that?

 

There is no such tax rule to the best of my knowledge - so you have me curious, wondering what rule you may have misinterpreted.

[digger70]

19 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

I thought you just received a tax credit for tax paid in your home country?

 

If the tax credit is more than you would have paid in tax in Thailand....then no tax to pay in Thailand.

 

Is that how it works?

Not that I know of.

I Haven't heard anything about the Tax credits you mentioned.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, digger70 said:

Not that I know of.

I Haven't heard anything about the Tax credits you mentioned.

AI...though not always correct....

 

if the tax you pay in the UK qualifies as a tax credit in Thailand and the credit exceeds the amount of tax you would owe in Thailand, then you typically would not have to pay any additional tax in Thailand.

[digger70]

14 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

What tax rule is that?

 

There is no such tax rule to the best of my knowledge - so you have me curious, wondering what rule you may have misinterpreted.

Well now the the Tax rule that came into  action last year the tax rule that's been there but never been  applied to the full extend of the tax law.

[oldcpu]

11 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Well now the the Tax rule that came into  action last year the tax rule that's been there but never been  applied to the full extend of the tax law.

 

???

 

What tax rule?  por.161.162 came out in 2023 (not last year). Those are Thai RD ministerial directives ... and they did NOT, under any interpretation, state:

Quote

Thailand can tax it if they think that one has't paid Enough tax  to there liking n the Home country according to the New Tax rule 

 

So you have me very curious.  What tax rule are you referring to?

 

Once again, I am aware of no such new rule.

[TheAppletons]

1 hour ago, digger70 said:

Thailand can tax it if they think that one has't paid Enough tax  to there liking n the Home country according to the New Tax rule 

 

 False.