Wake Up! - EVs Are Here, and Your Gas Guzzler is on Life Support

JBChiangRai · February 3

2 hours ago, connda said:

I doubt it. Especially in third-world countries like Thailand. Here's reality: How do you force an entire population to purchase new EVs?
The average citizens of Thailand is a debt-slave whose credit is already overextended to the breaking point, which in turn is over-extending the viability of Thai banks and financial institutions?

The answer? They can't.

At this point Thailand doesn't even have the infrastructure to handle EVs. Gas stations rein. EV charging stations don't. So sure, the government can eventually outlaw ICE vehicles and petrol, but in the process they'll collapse their economies and society to boot. ICE and EVs will both be sharing the roads in 2035 and beyond. Slowly - not by government edict but by consumer choice, especially if new EV are cheaper than ICE vehicles to purchase and operate - then perhaps the majority of citizens eventually will own EVs. Ain't happening anytime soon without tanking the world economies. And if we have a major X-Class CME in the meantime (we're historically way over-due for "The Big One Carrington-style) then all bets are off the table.

I agree with everything you said in your post except this “At this point Thailand doesn't even have the infrastructure to handle EVs. ”

Thailand has an excellent EV charging infrastructure.

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I have driven from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai and back again in the same day, started by topping up in Chiang Rai. I did the trip there and back without refueling. In a Mazda 2.

Can you do that?

Yes, and I have done it with just under 20% SoC left.

atpeace · February 3

19 hours ago, Lacessit said:

About every 2-3 months, I travel between Chiang Rai and Chiang Mai to visit friends. About 200 km.

I usually refuel going back at Doi Saket. There are about a dozen fuel pumps at the station, and a single EV charger.

So what do you do in that situation if a couple of EV's are waiting there before you to be charged? Drink coffee for an hour?

I have no doubt EV's are much cheaper to run, and most owners refuel at home. However, on the road, permit me to doubt they are as convenient to refuel as an ICE.

If I did run out of fuel on the road, a jerry can solves the problem. An EV, the only option is a tow truck, unless you want to cart a portable generator around with you.

Life support for gas guzzlers? Not in my lifetime.

You are correct IMO in that ICE cars are much better for trips over 200 kilometers ( probably 250to 280). I drive well over 250 kilometers about once a month and it can be frustrating at times the with the EV. Usually I just remind myself to calm down and why rush. I'm retired, have the luxury of time, and usually traveling solo.

As one poster stated, It take 20 minutes to charge from 30-80% is far from accurate in my experience and you will be looking for another charger in a little over 100 kilometers after charging to 80%. Charger not working, chargers full, extremely slow charger, no electronic chargers on your route(detour time!) to name a few of the challenges.

I enjoy my EV and it fits my lifestyle very well. By far the best car I've ever owned. Just took the Hilux on a 60 kilometer trip and simply don't like it anymore. Still debating if I need both. Can't wait till they come out with a Truck that cost around a million baht.

KhunLA · February 3

1 hour ago, atpeace said:

You are correct IMO in that ICE cars a. Still debating if I need both. Can't wait till they come out with a Truck that cost around a million baht.

atpeace · February 3

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Well, there we have it. Wait a year to verify it is legit and then this will be my next car unless(probable) there is even a better option. Funny, now that I switched to renewables for most my energy needs, I'm spending more than ever before but it is fun.

Yellowtail · February 3

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Quicker than it took you to write that daft comment.....

What next, how long does it take you step out of the car and close the door ????

Pathetic Yellowtail - stick with the sensible stuff.

I spent a fair share of the last thirty years doing time studies to balance flow and design workstations, but okay, it takes no time.

vinny41 · February 3

33 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Well, there we have it. Wait a year to verify it is legit and then this will be my next car unless(probable) there is even a better option. Funny, now that I switched to renewables for most my energy needs, I'm spending more than ever before but it is fun.

Wait and see if the Radar King Kong which is rd6 replacement in China comes to Thailand

https://carnewschina.com/2024/12/23/geely-backed-radar-king-kong-pickup-truck-launched-in-china-for-13700-usd/

EV pickup trucks built in Thailand qualify for B100,000 subsidy until end of 2027

EV pickup trucks not built in Thailand receive no subsidy

so waiting one or 2 years is a good idea

richard_smith237 · February 3

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I spent a fair share of the last thirty years doing time studies to balance flow and design workstations, but okay, it takes no time.

Aw gawd.... really ???? If you think taking 10 seconds to plug in an EV makes a huge difference to a single individual then sorry to tell you, your carer has been a tragic waste of time.

But... If it pleases you - the 10 seconds it takes me to plug in my EV 3x per week amounts to a total of 26 minutes per year.... I'm sure you waste more time than that working out whether wiping forwards or backwards is more efficient !!!... :whistling:

It takes you longer to get into your front door, it takes you longer to get out of your car, it takes you longer to do just about any of your day to day routine activities..... Now, Yellowstone... can't you actually recognise the shier idiocy of the point you are trying to make.

Yellowtail · February 3

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Aw gawd.... really ???? If you think taking 10 seconds to plug in an EV makes a huge difference to a single individual then sorry to tell you, your carer has been a tragic waste of time.

But... If it pleases you - the 10 seconds it takes me to plug in my EV 3x per week amounts to a total of 26 minutes per year.... I'm sure you waste more time than that working out whether wiping forwards or backwards is more efficient !!!...

It takes you longer to get into your front door, it takes you longer to get out of your car, it takes you longer to do just about any of your day to day routine activities..... Now, Yellowstone... can't you actually recognise the shier idiocy of the point you are trying to make.

The point was that everything takes time.

And even if it only takes ten seconds, three times a week, that would be 52 minutes a year, because (I assume) you would also take ten seconds to unplug it, yes?

richard_smith237 · February 3

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The Second Law of Thermodynamics says you won't get as much energy back as you have expended, although it's probably not a significant loss.

I guess if I was driving an EV, I would want to know where the chargers are. I can't say I have looked for them, not driving an EV.

I have driven from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai and back again in the same day, started by topping up in Chiang Rai. I did the trip there and back without refueling. In a Mazda 2.

Can you do that?

Chiang Rai to Chian Mai and back is about 200km... Most EV's can do that twice...

Its not really a comparison at all.

Yellowtails claim of driving the 700km from Chiang Mai to Bangkok is a better claim when playing

'Distance top trumps' between EV's and ICE's...

But then I'd ask, where did he stop off for lunch.... cos he'd have been able to top-up an EV and grab a bite to eat at the same time.... (unless of course 'time is critical' and he wants to go the whole 700km in one stop without a break).

To be honest - these comparison are a little bit ridiculous - they're stretching the realms of common sense and reasonable comparison.

Lacessit · February 3

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Chiang Rai to Chian Mai and back is about 200km... Most EV's can do that twice...

Its not really a comparison at all.

Yellowtails claim of driving the 700km from Chiang Mai to Bangkok is a better claim when playing

'Distance top trumps' between EV's and ICE's...

But then I'd ask, where did he stop off for lunch.... cos he'd have been able to top-up an EV and grab a bite to eat at the same time.... (unless of course 'time is critical' and he wants to go the whole 700km in one stop without a break).

To be honest - these comparison are a little bit ridiculous - they're stretching the realms of common sense and reasonable comparison.

Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai is 200 KM. Chiang Mai to Chiang Rai is 200 km.

My math might be a bit rusty, but that adds up to 400 km.

I am not inclined to believe anything Yellowtail says, IMO he lies for practice.

richard_smith237 · February 3

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The point was that everything takes time.

And even if it only takes ten seconds, three times a week, that would be 52 minutes a year, because (I assume) you would also take ten seconds to unplug it, yes?

No... because I take 4 seconds to plug it in.... so I allowed for unplugging time and a couple of extra seconds... just incase something dramatic happened such as a sneeze which would have added 100 to 150 milliseconds.... :whistling:

Now... on average a person urinates 6x per day, lasting, on average, 21 seconds per time.

Thats.. 12.8 hours just taking a pee each year....

Now... Imagine, if you could 'hold it' and only go 5x per year... You'd save 2.21 hours per year... which, if you minus the 26 mins you spend each year plugging in (and unplugging an EV) you still have 1.7 hours a year saved....

NOW... Do you get how pathetic this is as a comparison yet ??....

Plugging in / and unplugging an EV when we get home takes so 'little' time, its negligible to the point of not being noticeable as taking any extra time at all.... as in 'it takes no time'....

richard_smith237 · February 3

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai is 200 KM. Chiang Mai to Chiang Rai is 200 km.

My math might be a bit rusty, but that adds up to 400 km.

I am not inclined to believe anything Yellowtail says, IMO he lies for practice.

Indeed... Your Maths is spot on.... (I stuffed up distracted by the silly rubbish YT is babbling on about)...

So a round trip CR-CM-CR is about 400km give and take - as you pointed out.

That will be an issue for some EV owners (particularly lower range models)....

Honest question: do you do it on go, just go there and stop off ?... . Or when you get to Chiang Mai do you 'do stuff' i.e. do you pick up the things you need from a shopping mall etc ?

The reason I ask of course... is how much more of an inconvenience would it be to plug into an EV charger at the shopping mall while you are there for a couple of hours ?

I think this could be the fairest comparison we are discussing on the 'distance / range' facet of having an EV.

4myr · February 3

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I guess if I was driving an EV, I would want to know where the chargers are. I can't say I have looked for them, not driving an EV.

I have driven from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai and back again in the same day, started by topping up in Chiang Rai. I did the trip there and back without refueling. In a Mazda 2.

Can you do that?

Some cars like Tesla and Xpeng have charger on route planners standard.

And if your EV does not have it, just download the app abetterrouteplanner.com [ABRP] and connect it to your OBD scanner to read realtime data like your SoC battery charge. And plan your charging stops along your route. There is however no equivalent planner for your gas fuel stations.

Lacessit · February 3

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

Indeed... Your Maths is spot on.... (I stuffed up distracted by the silly rubbish YT is babbling on about)...

So a round trip CR-CM-CR is about 400km give and take - as you pointed out.

That will be an issue for some EV owners (particularly lower range models)....

Honest question: do you do it on go, just go there and stop off ?... . Or when you get to Chiang Mai do you 'do stuff' i.e. do you pick up the things you need from a shopping mall etc ?

The reason I ask of course... is how much more of an inconvenience would it be to plug into an EV charger at the shopping mall while you are there for a couple of hours ?

I think this could be the fairest comparison we are discussing on the 'distance / range' facet of having an EV.

As I said, I have done the round trip once without refueling.

My usual pattern is 2-3 days in Chiang Mai, visiting friends and a couple of my favorite restaurants. Breakfast at Sausage King, dinner at Antonio's. Special occasions, Le Coq D'Or. My GF catches up with her friends while we are there, I stay with a friend. Shopping at Rimping for groceries I can't get in Chiang Rai.

Chiang Mai has the only podiatrist that I know of in the North.

After all the running around, I am usually down to a quarter tank. I fill up on the way back at Doi Saket. Sometimes, I turn off at Mae Kachan to Phayao, the road less travelled.

Horses for courses. If I had an EV, I would not be concerned if I had a coffee while waiting for it to recharge. OTOH, I'd be p!ssed off if I had to wait for a couple of other EV's, and waste an hour.

Lacessit · February 3

13 minutes ago, 4myr said:

Some cars like Tesla and Xpeng have charger on route planners standard.

And if your EV does not have it, just download the app abetterrouteplanner.com [ABRP] and connect it to your OBD scanner to read realtime data like your SoC battery charge. And plan your charging stops along your route. There is however no equivalent planner for your gas fuel stations.

There is no need to have a planner for gas stations. If I wanted to, I could even fill up in my GF's village.

Mae Kachan, Wiang Pa Pao, Mae Suai and Mae Lao all have multiple gas stations. The gas stations have big signs I can see from a mile off, telling me I am approaching a gas station.

richard_smith237 · Monday at 02:11 PM

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

There is no need to have a planner for gas stations.

Fair point... and while its not like that in Thailand... Its not far off either.

That maybe due to the area I'm in... But now that I have an EV I realise how many charging stations there actually are... Mostly in Shopping Malls and Petrol stations.

How many of you can top of your ICE in a shopping mall ???

-----------

On the actual 'planner itself'... thats just an idea as I never use it when in town anyway, there's no need.

If on a long road trip, I'll look at the planner and check there are plenty of charging stations on the route....

Do you ever look at a Map of the route you are taking when travelling on a road trip (new roads etc), I do... and I used to also look how often the Gas / Petrol stations were.

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If I wanted to, I could even fill up in my GF's village.

Does your girlfriends Village have electricity ????

- Then you can use a Granni charger to charge over night... (unless you are not stopping over night) in which case.... you will have to use a 'planner' or 'map' to see where you can charge up.

But - in reality, Lacessit - IF you are putting up so many 'weak' arguments against EV's, then you are missing out on using your strongest argument..... which is...

- "you just don't want an EV"... or

- "you just don't like then"....

which is ok... each to our own.... but, I'm seeing a lot of very weak very flawed arguments against EV's which hold very little water indeed....

Yellowtail · Monday at 02:11 PM

35 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

No... because I take 4 seconds to plug it in.... so I allowed for unplugging time and a couple of extra seconds... just incase something dramatic happened such as a sneeze which would have added 100 to 150 milliseconds....

Now... on average a person urinates 6x per day, lasting, on average, 21 seconds per time.

Thats.. 12.8 hours just taking a pee each year....

Now... Imagine, if you could 'hold it' and only go 5x per year... You'd save 2.21 hours per year... which, if you minus the 26 mins you spend each year plugging in (and unplugging an EV) you still have 1.7 hours a year saved....

NOW... Do you get how pathetic this is as a comparison yet ??....

Plugging in / and unplugging an EV when we get home takes so 'little' time, its negligible to the point of not being noticeable as taking any extra time at all.... as in 'it takes no time'....

Oh, what a tangled web we weave...

I'm glad you like the car, I've been thinking about getting an EV but it makes little sense to me now.

Yellowtail · Monday at 02:15 PM

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

Fair point... and while its not like that in Thailand... Its not far off either.

That maybe due to the area I'm in... But now that I have an EV I realise how many charging stations there actually are... Mostly in Shopping Malls and Petrol stations.

How many of you can top of your ICE in a shopping mall ???

-----------

On the actual 'planner itself'... thats just an idea as I never use it when in town anyway, there's no need.

If on a long road trip, I'll look at the planner and check there are plenty of charging stations on the route....

Do you ever look at a Map of the route you are taking when travelling on a road trip (new roads etc), I do... and I used to also look how often the Gas / Petrol stations were.

Does your girlfriends Village have electricity ????

- Then you can use a Granni charger to charge over night... (unless you are not stopping over night) in which case.... you will have to use a 'planner' or 'map' to see where you can charge up.

But - in reality, Lacessit - IF you are putting up so many 'weak' arguments against EV's, then you are missing out on using your strongest argument..... which is...

- "you just don't want an EV"... or

- "you just don't like then"....

which is ok... each to our own.... but, I'm seeing a lot of very weak very flawed arguments against EV's which hold very little water indeed....

If someone has a vehicle they already like, buying an EV would likely make no economic sense.

The best reason to buy a new car, is because you want a new car.

richard_smith237 · Monday at 02:15 PM

23 minutes ago, 4myr said:

There is however no equivalent planner for your gas fuel stations.

And well... Yes there is... because we can use Google Maps to show where the petrol stations are... and thats something I used to do when going on a long road trip with an ICE before...

richard_smith237 · Monday at 02:18 PM

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Oh, what a tangled web we weave...

I'm glad you like the car, I've been thinking about getting an EV but it makes little sense to me now.

IF you are doing 400km regularly, then a longer range EV will make no difference to you...

*i.e. our EV says is 620km which IMO is rubbish... I see about 480 out of it usually.

BTW: I didn't chose our car because it was an EV... our last car was 7 years old and it was time to start looking at a new one... I really had no idea what to get.... looked around a bit but didn't pay much attention... then saw the EV, I liked it and got it - if it was an ICE I would have got it.

richard_smith237 · Monday at 02:27 PM

28 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Horses for courses. If I had an EV, I would not be concerned if I had a coffee while waiting for it to recharge. OTOH, I'd be p!ssed off if I had to wait for a couple of other EV's, and waste an hour.

Same here, but, it hasn't happened to me... mainly because I hardly ever charge outside of home.

But, I have heard of long waits in the UK.... (and its expensive there but so is petrol).

Charging stations can be booked in advance... so if you are 30mins out - you can book it up.

(not easy if driving alone) but the Wifey can sort that out if you are on the move.

Yellowtail · Monday at 02:27 PM

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

IF you are doing 400km regularly, then a longer range EV will make no difference to you...

*i.e. our EV says is 620km which IMO is rubbish... I see about 480 out of it usually.

BTW: I didn't chose our car because it was an EV... our last car was 7 years old and it was time to start looking at a new one... I really had no idea what to get.... looked around a bit but didn't pay much attention... then saw the EV, I liked it and got it - if it was an ICE I would have got it.

I fill up about once a month, and it cost about 2,000-2,300 each time.

My car is almost eight years old, and has almost 110,000km and it still runs strong, and has had no issues. A few batteries, tires once and brake pads on the back once. When I was working, I drove 60-100K a year and was going through a company car every three years.

I'm still looking, but none that I have sat in seem very roomy to me.

richard_smith237 · Monday at 02:29 PM

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If someone has a vehicle they already like, buying an EV would likely make no economic sense.

The best reason to buy a new car, is because you want a new car.

erm... OK.... it seems you are using this as an anti-EV argument, but its just the same as if someone wanted a new ICE.... if they had an vehicle they already like.... it would make no economic sense to buy 'any' new car...

Think man... jezzzz

richard_smith237 · Monday at 02:30 PM

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I fill up about once a month, and it cost about 2,000-2,300 each time.

My car is almost eight years old, and has almost 110,000km and it still runs strong, and has had no issues. A few batteries, tires once and brake pads on the back once. When I was working, I drove 60-100K a year and was going through a company car every three years.

I'm still looking, but none that I have sat in seem very roomy to me.

Fair enough - you drive an old car and don't like EV's... we get it.....

... but none of that means EV's are not good.... which was the argument you've been trying to push.

Yellowtail · Monday at 02:35 PM

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

IF you are doing 400km regularly, then a longer range EV will make no difference to you...

*i.e. our EV says is 620km which IMO is rubbish... I see about 480 out of it usually.

BTW: I didn't chose our car because it was an EV... our last car was 7 years old and it was time to start looking at a new one... I really had no idea what to get.... looked around a bit but didn't pay much attention... then saw the EV, I liked it and got it - if it was an ICE I would have got it.

I'd bet on a long trip, I could get 900km on a tank.

Around town I typically get 750-850km.

I'm married, so I would probably stop 5-6 times between Bangkok and Chiang Mai, but I would not stop anywhere for more than 5-10 minutes. I'd leave at 04:00 and eat when we get there.

Yellowtail · Monday at 02:36 PM

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

erm... OK.... it seems you are using this as an anti-EV argument, but its just the same as if someone wanted a new ICE.... if they had an vehicle they already like.... it would make no economic sense to buy 'any' new car...

Think man... jezzzz

Exactly. I am not anti EV, nor am I attempting to make an argument against them.

Yellowtail · Monday at 02:38 PM

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Fair enough - you drive an old car and don't like EV's... we get it.....

... but none of that means EV's are not good.... which was the argument you've been trying to push.

I've never said EVs were not good. You made that up.

richard_smith237 · Monday at 02:51 PM

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I'd bet on a long trip, I could get 900km on a tank.

Around town I typically get 750-850km.

I'm married, so I would probably stop 5-6 times between Bangkok and Chiang Mai, but I would not stop anywhere for more than 5-10 minutes. I'd leave at 04:00 and eat when we get there.

Congratulations... I'd fly !!... :whistling:

richard_smith237 · Monday at 02:54 PM

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I've never said EVs were not good. You made that up.

You implied it with your comments about 'the additional time it takes to plug in an EV and how your ICE has greater range'....

.... Your stance was rather obvious when using silly examples.

richard_smith237 · Monday at 02:55 PM

18 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Exactly. I am not anti EV, nor am I attempting to make an argument against them.

OK... fair enough - I'm mistaken...

And from the same perspective, I'm not anti EV or and ICE.... But I am anti-unintelligent arguments and will have a comment or two about ill thought out comments that appear to contain bias.

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