Nightmare at the Prachuap tax office

[thesetat]

I just returned from the Prachuap Khiri Khan tax office at the Prachuap provincial office. (Not Hua Hin) I had my total amount that was transferred to fill in their forms. As well as proof the the monies were from Social Security office. 

While speaking to the personnel. They asked my wife where did my money come from. My wife showed them my form 1099 that showed how much was paid to me from the SSI. They then told her that all of that income on that piece of paper would be taxed and i would need to pay thousands on it to their office. I tried to explain to them (with wife's help in Thai) that the DTA for SSi to Thailand is not taxable. The tax office asked my wife why i got this money for mean she told them i was disabled. They asked me to show them proof of my disability. The office knew nothing about this and said I would need to pay on that amount and then clarified that disabled in Thailand are given proof of their disability and are only allotted an income of about 100,000 before they paid tax.. To make matters worse, the amount sent to Thailand was more than what i got from my SSDI. Because my children in Thailand also get SSDI and that is sent to my US account and then transferred to Thailand. They said only my income mattered that showed on my 1099 form. They did not care what was sent from the US to Thailand out of my pension. I then began thinking this tax office clearly has no idea about taxation laws and the DTA that applies to SSI pensions. 

I showed them online that SSI from the US to Thailand is not paid as per the DTA. They would not accept this.

( The US-Thailand Tax Agreement:
Under this agreement, US social security income is exempt from Thai taxation. This means if your primary source of income is US social security, you are not required to pay Thai taxes on this income, regardless of how and when it's transferred to your Thai bank account }

Again they wanted me to show proof that I was disabled as well. America does not issue proof for this as far as I know. WE do not carry a card around saying I get SSDI because I am disabled. Only when you require special services are you then given some document that grants permission for those services. (IE disabled parking, ramps, and other things that police will perhaps hassle you over. But not income from direct deposits coming from the SSI office. 

So here I am. Telling you the tax office here in Mueang Prachuap Khiri Khan. Has no clue about how to manage my taxes and are determined to make me pay thousands on my SSI. 

 

Does anyone know if another office (perhaps Hua Hin) is more knowledgeable in this and has an English speaker working there to assist us? 

 

I know if I file through this office, they will do it wrong and make me pay alot for no reason. 

[CallumWK]

4 minutes ago, thesetat said:

I then began thinking this tax office clearly has no idea about taxation laws and the DTA that applies to SSI pensions. 

 

Tell us something we didn't know yet haha

[KhunLA]

Thank you very much, as I was thinking about popping into that office myself this week.

 

I won't be doing that 

[Briggsy]

Thank you for your report.

 

What was your incentive for wanting to file a tax return (particularly when it sounds you had nothing to declare)?

 

And the same question but asked backwards. If you had not gone, what position would you have been in?

 

If you have the time and inclination, would you mind answering these two questions.

[TheAppletons]

Why in the world would you go to the office when you already know your Social Security is not taxable?

 

 

[thesetat]

Just now, Briggsy said:

Thank you for your report.

 

What was your incentive for wanting to file a tax return (particularly when it sounds you had nothing to declare)?

 

And the same question but asked backwards. If you had not gone, what position would you have been in?

 

If you have the time and inclination, would you mind answering these two questions.

I have been here for 13 years. My wife runs one of the Government ministry offices locally so i try my best to keep legal in all aspects. Since my income is solely from social security then it is not taxable in Thailand so I did not see a problem filing to keep legal problems from arising that may include my wife. 

But this office has no clue. 

[thesetat]

1 minute ago, thesetat said:

What was your incentive for wanting to file a tax return (particularly when it sounds you had nothing to declare)?

You are required to declare and file tax return on all monies transferred into Thailand even if no tax is owed

[TheAppletons]

3 minutes ago, thesetat said:

You are required to declare and file tax return on all monies transferred into Thailand even if no tax is owed

 

  No, you are not.  You are only required to file if your assessable income is over a certain threshold.

 

  If you have zero assessable income, no need to file.

[Briggsy]

Just now, thesetat said:

I have been here for 13 years. My wife runs one of the Government ministry offices locally so i try my best to keep legal in all aspects. Since my income is solely from social security then it is not taxable in Thailand so I did not see a problem filing to keep legal problems from arising that may include my wife. 

But this office has no clue. 

Excellent.

 

So your desire to file a tax return is the wish "to keep legal". Thank you for answering that.

 

I guess that means by implication your answer to the second question was not to file would have been illegal. Okay. (See suggestion 1 below)

 

Would you consider, again if you have the time and inclination, the following two courses of action. They are either / or.

 

1. Don't file on the grounds that your taxable income in Thailand means you do not need to. However, do keep records to show if ever challenged.

2. File a 'zero income return' without asking the tax officials to do it for you. Perhaps you have a little bank interest but if your foreign income is exempt simply don't declare it.

 

I hope you find these solutions helpful. Nobody wants a nightmare.

 

 

[thesetat]

3 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  No, you are not.  You are only required to file if your assessable income is over a certain threshold.

 

  If you have zero assessable income, no need to file.

As i know it. You must file tax return for all monies sent to Thailand from abroad. Report income earned abroad as well. Perhaps I am wrong. 

[CallumWK]

1 minute ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  No, you are not.  You are only required to file if your assessable income is over a certain threshold.

 

  If you have zero assessable income, no need to file.

 

Honest question here, as I'm out of the loop regarding taxes in my home country.

 

In your respective country, whichever that one may be, assume you have an income which is below the threshold on which you have to pay taxes.

Do you have to file a tax return in your country?

[TheAppletons]

4 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

Honest question here, as I'm out of the loop regarding taxes in my home country.

 

In your respective country, whichever that one may be, assume you have an income which is below the threshold on which you have to pay taxes.

Do you have to file a tax return in your country?

 

  No, I do not.  That limit in my country is $14,600 or so.

 

 

[thesetat]

1 minute ago, CallumWK said:

 

Honest question here, as I'm out of the loop regarding taxes in my home country.

 

In your respective country, whichever that one may be, assume you have an income which is below the threshold on which you have to pay taxes.

Do you have to file a tax return in your country?

I am American so it may be different fo you. I do not need to file a tax return in the USA but I am able to do so and have done so several times to get incentive monies during Covid. But it is not required of me there because my sole income is from SSI and they have records for this in their database. 

As for you, in America they do not care about threshold. Everyone should file to be determined if owed tax money or if have to pay. Even if you know your income is less than a certain amount. Income is normally automatically taken by the employer so there is a record of the amount paid. The employer sends you a statement showing the total paid into tax. I receive a statement from SSI showing the yearly amount received as well as a nice big 0 showing no taxes taken out. 

[Screaming]

5 minutes ago, thesetat said:

As i know it. You must file tax return for all monies sent to Thailand from abroad. Report income earned abroad as well. Perhaps I am wrong. 

You might be either right or wrong but you are really stupid if you file for a Thai tax id and report your overseas income.

[anrcaccount]

Did you file last year? Guessing no. 

 

Let this serve as an example of what not to do.

 

You would have been much better, doing nothing.

 

 

[thesetat]

1 minute ago, Screaming said:

You might be either right or wrong but you are really stupid if you file for a Thai tax id and report your overseas income.

I already had a tx Id number from 13 years ago. I did not need to apply for that. 

To say someone is stupid for wanting to protect their wifes position and keep from problems arising is stupid in itself. My wife has a great job making almost as much as my pension plus benefits that even I rely on like their free medical for family. Her advancement is a sure thing. So why I would want to take a chance to have the Tax office contacting her or making her life and position at her work difficult for this reason? 

[Briggsy]

10 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

Honest question here, as I'm out of the loop regarding taxes in my home country.

 

In your respective country, whichever that one may be, assume you have an income which is below the threshold on which you have to pay taxes.

Do you have to file a tax return in your country?

In the UK, absolutely not. The UK does not want unnecessary tax returns taking up government time and money. When you complete a tax return and it is not necessary, the tax authority deregister you for the following year.

[thesetat]

1 minute ago, anrcaccount said:

Did you file last year? Guessing no. 

 

Let this serve as an example of what not to do.

 

You would have been much better, doing nothing.

 

 

No laws began for last year.. 

 

[TheAppletons]

12 minutes ago, thesetat said:

As i know it. You must file tax return for all monies sent to Thailand from abroad. Report income earned abroad as well. Perhaps I am wrong. 

 

  Report income earned abroad?  To the Thai tax authorities?  Put down the bong, sir.

 

  

 

  

 

  

 

  

[Briggsy]

@thesetat

 

I think you may find your assessable income is below the required amount to file a tax return and there is no need to do so. This will save you a big headache.

 

However, to "keep legal" I suggest you keep accurate records of your income and remittances.

[anrcaccount]

Just now, thesetat said:

No laws began for last year.. 

 

 

No new laws began this year, either.

 

With your logic, if you were remitting your social security same year earned, you should have filed last year and the others before that.  

 

This is a prime example of why this whole "tax thing" is just ridiculous.  

[thesetat]

4 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

@thesetat

 

I think you may find your assessable income is below the required amount to file a tax return and there is no need to do so. This will save you a big headache.

 

However, to "keep legal" I suggest you keep accurate records of your income and remittances.

I am not sure.. but a million baht would not be considered below their required amount haha

[thesetat]

3 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

No new laws began this year, either.

 

With your logic, if you were remitting your social security same year earned, you should have filed last year and the others before that.  

 

This is a prime example of why this whole "tax thing" is just ridiculous.  

You mean you do not know.. foreigners are required to file tax on money sent to Thailand throughout the 2024 year and to file before March 31 this year? But only if you are in Thailand more than 180 days. This came into effect Jan 1 2025 as far as i know

[thesetat]

8 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

@thesetat

 

I think you may find your assessable income is below the required amount to file a tax return and there is no need to do so. This will save you a big headache.

 

However, to "keep legal" I suggest you keep accurate records of your income and remittances.

Probably the best advice yet. 

However if anyone in Hua hin can tell me. Is the tax office there any smarter and english speaking? 

[Briggsy]

3 minutes ago, thesetat said:

I am not sure.. but a million baht would not be considered below their required amount haha

A million baht which is unassessable = Zero baht assessable. That would be below the required amount and there would be no need to file a return. Obviously you can file a return if you so wish, that is your choice. However, depending on your level of assessable income, it could be unnecessary.

 

Just trying to help.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

33 minutes ago, thesetat said:

As i know it. You must file tax return for all monies sent to Thailand from abroad. Report income earned abroad as well. Perhaps I am wrong. 

 

There's somewhat of a debate on whether those with ONLY exempt income are or are not required to file a return under the new rules for foreign remittances.

 

There's probably more weight at present on the opinion that filing a Thai return for only exempt income is NOT required.

 

Part of what feeds into that opinion and would seem to support it is that the current Thai tax forms for TY 2024 provide NO section / field for reporting exempt/non-taxable income.

 

And, the RTD's own very sparse public guidance on foreign remittances has talked about the Thai tax only applying to ASSESSABLE foreign remittances.  And exempt funds like U.S. SS are not assessable income and can ONLY be taxed by the U.S., per Article 20 of the U.S.-Thai DTA:

 

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thailand.pdf

[TheAppletons]

6 minutes ago, thesetat said:

You mean you do not know.. foreigners are required to file tax on money sent to Thailand throughout the 2024 year and to file before March 31 this year? But only if you are in Thailand more than 180 days. This came into effect Jan 1 2025 as far as i know

 

  Again, you are operating under a giant misconception.  

 

  You are required to file only if your assessable income exceeds a certain threshold.  

 

  But hey, do what you want, think what you want, pay whatever you want.  

[thesetat]

Just now, Briggsy said:

A million baht which is unassessable = Zero baht assessable. That would be below the required amount and there would be no need to file a return. Obviously you can file a return if you so wish, that is your choice. However, depending on your level of assessable income, it could be unnecessary.

 

Just trying to help.

Haha well given that this tax office is trying to say I would need to pay thousands just on my SSI. this does not include half the amount I transferred including the SSI my children get as well. Half was 500,000. Mind you.. i only was at the office to inquire so i could obtain any documents they needed to file later. I have not filed yet. But this office was completely ignorant about it all. 

[Sheryl]

54 minutes ago, thesetat said:

I have been here for 13 years. My wife runs one of the Government ministry offices locally so i try my best to keep legal in all aspects. Since my income is solely from social security then it is not taxable in Thailand so I did not see a problem filing to keep legal problems from arising that may include my wife. 

But this office has no clue. 

If SS is your sole remitted  income  (or other remitted income is under 60k baht) you are not required to file and my recomnendation is that you do not.

 

If you  have >60k in assessable (non SS) remitted income, then file by  yourself online reporting only the assessable income.

 

Many provincial RDs do not know what a DTA is and certainly none are familiar with the contents of all 60 odd DTAs....and that last is unlikely to change.

 

Anyone can file directly onlne,  no need to visit RD office and, for foreigners with non-assessable income, very unwise to do so IMO. 

 

RD does not ask for or want declarations of non-assessable income and there is no way at this time  to  so declare.  You  self-assess and file only for assessable income  keeping on hand, in case ever asked, proof of remittance source. 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

42 minutes ago, thesetat said:

As i know it. You must file tax return for all monies sent to Thailand from abroad. Report income earned abroad as well. Perhaps I am wrong. 

Whether you are wrong or right is immaterial.

 

Unless an Immigration officer tells me I have to have a Thai tax number and/or tax return to obtain an extension of stay, I won't be going anywhere near a tax office. They will have to come to me.

 

If they do, I have documented proof every baht transferred is from pre-2024 savings.

 

IMO your best course of action is to try at another office. It's very likely different offices have different understanding of the legislation, several posters have been told they don't need a Thai tax number.

 

OTOH, a friend in Khon Khaen is telling me the TRD is making life difficult, to the point he will exploit the 180 day rule.