BBC with a brutal takedown of Ukrainian hopes

[Yagoda]

6 hours ago, still kicking said:

He refers to Australia as a sick little  country Australia is as big as the US and is a conontinet get an education 

You spelled continent wrong. Now run along

[Yagoda]

6 hours ago, still kicking said:

He refers to Australia as a sick little  country Australia is as big as the US and is a conontinet get an education 

You spelled continent wrong. Now run along

[Yagoda]

S

Weird net this am

[Social Media]

@bannork please cease copy and pasting articles and text blocks that are well over fair use policy and additionally contain no credible link to them. 

 

27. You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Only post a link, the headline and three sentences from the article. Content in the public domain is limited to the same restrictions.

[Yagoda]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

I’m the guy who’ll be eating popcorn when your country is humiliated by its enemies … only this time it will be so much worse than Vietnam. 

Well that means you're either an enemy of the United States or someone not smart enough to realize how good life is compared to what would happen if the Chinese beat us. I noticed you didn't dispute any of my points about Chinese military

[theblether]

1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

Well that means you're either an enemy of the United States or someone not smart enough to realize how good life is compared to what would happen if the Chinese beat us. I noticed you didn't dispute any of my points about Chinese military

 

Ignore that witless troll. 

[AlexRich]

33 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Well that means you're either an enemy of the United States or someone not smart enough to realize how good life is compared to what would happen if the Chinese beat us. I noticed you didn't dispute any of my points about Chinese military

The United States has voted for an autocrat, your democracy is about to get destroyed in the next few years by a traitor called Trump. Now as much as I despise him I think I hate his supporters more … the dumbest bunch of idiots ever to walk the Earth. As for the Chinese military, they are a great deal more capable than North Vietnamese rice farmers or Afghan goat herders … so when the merde hits the fan in the South China Sea I don’t care  what happens to you. 

[MicroB]

11 hours ago, uncletiger said:

 

1. Repay their loans equivalent to US $500 billion via rare earth mineral mining rights

 

 

Most of the RWE deposits are in the fascist Russia occupied regions.

 

Most of the kit the US has transferred to Ukraine is obsolete equipment that they would have had to dispose of any. The "cost" to the US is the Pentagon buying lots of shiney replacements.

 

Its like me having a £500 banger. Its ok for A to B, probably will struggle through next year's MOT, but its better than the neighbour's Lada. I give it to you, and treat myself to a £60k Boxster. You now owe me £60k because you forced me to buy a Boxster. Give me your house and wife.

 

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

10 hours ago, Hellfire said:

You can keep repeating this mantra: “never ever”. Betray Ukraine, show Putin your weakness, show him you are ready to betray your partner any time, show him that you are afraid to confront him, that you piss yourself every time he pronounces the word “nuclear” - this is all that is needed for him not to give a damn about Nato or whatever name you give this organization consisting of cowards. Just read the history book, read about Hitler and Czechoslovakia before you call me lunatic.

Unfortunately he’s simply someone with a poor knowledge of history, and he applauds fools like Trump, a man who when faced with Putin soils his pants. Trump has effectively signalled that he won’t come to the aid of Europe, so NATO is now a busted flush. If Europe doesn’t build a war machine Putin will rearm and make his move on the Baltics. NATO is over … some haven’t realised it yet. 

[Yagoda]

9 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

The United States has voted for an autocrat, your democracy is about to get destroyed in the next few years by a traitor called Trump. Now as much as I despise him I think I hate his supporters more … the dumbest bunch of idiots ever to walk the Earth. As for the Chinese military, they are a great deal more capable than North Vietnamese rice farmers or Afghan goat herders … so when the merde hits the fan in the South China Sea I don’t care  what happens to you. 

You have no facts to show that are democracy is about to be destroyed, you have no facts to show that Trump is an autocrat, you have no facts to show that Trump is a traitor. You have no knowledge of the Chinese military, have no knowledge of what our capabilities are, and quite frankly, you're just an American hating babbler who screeches without any knowledge of the subject. The best part is you call Trump supporters idiots, when you're ready to put your neck under the Chinese boot. Like I said before, you are either Clueless or an enemy of america, yes we know which one you are.

[Yagoda]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Unfortunately he’s simply someone with a poor knowledge of history, and he applauds fools like Trump, a man who when faced with Putin soils his pants. Trump has effectively signalled that he won’t come to the aid of Europe, so NATO is now a busted flush. If Europe doesn’t build a war machine Putin will rearm and make his move on the Baltics. NATO is over … some haven’t realised it yet. 

What's Putin going to rely on, his huge cash reserves? How long you think it's going to take him to build 4,000 tanks? Your knowledge of history and Military science is pathetic

[TedG]

9 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Unfortunately he’s simply someone with a poor knowledge of history, and he applauds fools like Trump, a man who when faced with Putin soils his pants. Trump has effectively signalled that he won’t come to the aid of Europe, so NATO is now a busted flush. If Europe doesn’t build a war machine Putin will rearm and make his move on the Baltics. NATO is over … some haven’t realised it yet. 

It's about time Europe handed their defense. 

[TedG]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

"By their deeds shall ye know them" Trump Bible New Testament

Here are some of Trump's deeds against Russia. 

 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/on-the-record-the-u-s-administrations-actions-on-russia/

 

When the Wager Group attacked the US soldiers in Syria in 2019. 

 

https://thewarhorse.org/special-forces-soldiers-reveal-first-details-of-battle-with-russian-mercenaries-in-syria/

[Autocan]

Cat is well and truly among the European pigeons. Life as a vassal state is hard. You keep wondering if your lord and master will have use for you tomorrow. Europeans need to pool their resources and make an army that people won't point and laugh at.

 

In any case fears of Russia are overblown. They'll take everything east of the Dniepr plus Odesa and call it quits. They have zero interest in the rest of Ukraine or Europe. Trump's new non-neocon security team has explained this to him and that there's nothing the US can do about it. Short of a nuclear exchange.

 

And truth is Trump gives a rat's about Ukraine. Who really does? Trump was right the first time around when he called it a corrupt shihole of a country.

[frank83628]

3 hours ago, candide said:

And Russia is 1.7%. And its main neighbour is China with 17% of the world's population! 😆

Well done, so just those 2 are more than the west. 

[TedG]

37 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

The United States has voted for an autocrat

Does Trump have unlimited power? 

[MicroB]

41 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Well that means you're either an enemy of the United States or someone not smart enough to realize how good life is compared to what would happen if the Chinese beat us. I noticed you didn't dispute any of my points about Chinese military

 

 

What will happen if China "beats" the US (presumably over Taiwan)? The US wants to onshore chip production anyhow. Its about to probably slap huge tariffs on Taiwan anyhow. So sad of course for the Taiwanese, but life will go on.

re

NATO Aritcle 5 as of yesterday, given what the Fox announcer said to other defence leaders, is over. The North Atlantic Charter is consigned to the dustbin of history. It cuts both ways. Article 5 refers to operations north of the Tropic of Cancer. NATO members have no obligation it seems to return requests to help the US in its conflict with China over a country that makes lots of bicycles.

 

In 2001, NATO members answered US calls for help. There was a NATO mission in Afghanistan. Some US troops were part of that, most were not. There are incidents of NATO troops being killed because those US troops outside of the NATO mission refused to help as they were spending all their time trying to find a Yemeni who was in Pakistan all along. That dichotomy reveals the issue about the US defence budget. Of course, European countries should spend a bit more, but for the last 80 years, the US has made sure that European countries couldn't arm themselves appropriately. Germany wasn't allowed to  become a nuclear power. Maybe it should now. The US dictated NATO defence standards and interoperability, which really did reduce the capacity of the European defence industry. And then with NATO members buy US equipment at above market rates, the quality is sometimes shoddy, eg the fairly useless Naval version of the F35, which has caused enormous equipment delays. The unfriendly language used by the US leadership, directly threatening unprovoked military action against two NATO allies, suggesting it will allow Russia to attack other members, isn't really winning friends in defence procurement. The US is now seen as an unreliable ally, never to be trusted. So, European and Korean defence industries will benefit. US defence industry will lose, losing jobs in mostly red states

 

Afghanistan illustrated the issue with US defence spending vis a vie NATO. Most NATO countries spend their defence budget in a collective European defence. France and the UK have a much reduced non-European role (the reason why NATO did not help the UK against the Argentinian right wing junta in 1982 was because the Falklands are a long way south of the Trpoic of Cancer). The US defence budget consists of giving away vast amounts of materiel to some pretty shonky countries, and then you lose much of it (Afghanistan, but you did much the same in Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Vietnam). You spend vaqst amounts of cash chasing mad mullahs around some desert. You have thousands of troops stationed for inexplicable reasons in Japan. You have lots sitting in South Korea, as you are pooing your pants over North Korea. You have troops who regularly pop up in Liberia, presumably because of the collective guilt you feel as a nation for exiling some of your former slaves to that disease riddled hellhole. There is a lot of activity by the US miitary that has nothing to do with Europe, and which artificially elevates the US defence spending, which is double the level, as a % of GDP of both the British and Roman empires  at their peak.

 

The US is very lucky, by an accident of geography, that it hasn't seen an invasion by a foreign power for 200 years.

 

When the two greatest leaders of the 20th Century, Franklin D Roosevelt and Winston Churchill, met on the USS Augusta, in 1941, they both agreed to these noble principles;

 

1. Both countries agreed not to seek territorial expansion; 
2. to seek the liberalization of international trade; 
3. to establish freedom of the seas, 
4. to set international labour, economic, and welfare standards. 
5.  a committment to supporting the restoration of self-governments for all countries that had been occupied during the war
6. allowing all peoples to choose their own form of government

84 years on, the Germanic dunce in the Whitehouse has taken an enormous dump on that first principle, and the next, and the next. As for the fourth,  he'd quite happily seem Americans consigned to sweatshops making $ t-shirts that are American made. He's selling Ukraine down the river, just like Chamberlain did

 

[Yagoda]

10 minutes ago, MicroB said:

 

 

What will happen if China "beats" the US (presumably over Taiwan)? The US wants to onshore chip production anyhow. Its about to probably slap huge tariffs on Taiwan anyhow. So sad of course for the Taiwanese, but life will go on.

re

NATO Aritcle 5 as of yesterday, given what the Fox announcer said to other defence leaders, is over. The North Atlantic Charter is consigned to the dustbin of history. It cuts both ways. Article 5 refers to operations north of the Tropic of Cancer. NATO members have no obligation it seems to return requests to help the US in its conflict with China over a country that makes lots of bicycles.

 

In 2001, NATO members answered US calls for help. There was a NATO mission in Afghanistan. Some US troops were part of that, most were not. There are incidents of NATO troops being killed because those US troops outside of the NATO mission refused to help as they were spending all their time trying to find a Yemeni who was in Pakistan all along. That dichotomy reveals the issue about the US defence budget. Of course, European countries should spend a bit more, but for the last 80 years, the US has made sure that European countries couldn't arm themselves appropriately. Germany wasn't allowed to  become a nuclear power. Maybe it should now. The US dictated NATO defence standards and interoperability, which really did reduce the capacity of the European defence industry. And then with NATO members buy US equipment at above market rates, the quality is sometimes shoddy, eg the fairly useless Naval version of the F35, which has caused enormous equipment delays. The unfriendly language used by the US leadership, directly threatening unprovoked military action against two NATO allies, suggesting it will allow Russia to attack other members, isn't really winning friends in defence procurement. The US is now seen as an unreliable ally, never to be trusted. So, European and Korean defence industries will benefit. US defence industry will lose, losing jobs in mostly red states

 

Afghanistan illustrated the issue with US defence spending vis a vie NATO. Most NATO countries spend their defence budget in a collective European defence. France and the UK have a much reduced non-European role (the reason why NATO did not help the UK against the Argentinian right wing junta in 1982 was because the Falklands are a long way south of the Trpoic of Cancer). The US defence budget consists of giving away vast amounts of materiel to some pretty shonky countries, and then you lose much of it (Afghanistan, but you did much the same in Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Vietnam). You spend vaqst amounts of cash chasing mad mullahs around some desert. You have thousands of troops stationed for inexplicable reasons in Japan. You have lots sitting in South Korea, as you are pooing your pants over North Korea. You have troops who regularly pop up in Liberia, presumably because of the collective guilt you feel as a nation for exiling some of your former slaves to that disease riddled hellhole. There is a lot of activity by the US miitary that has nothing to do with Europe, and which artificially elevates the US defence spending, which is double the level, as a % of GDP of both the British and Roman empires  at their peak.

 

The US is very lucky, by an accident of geography, that it hasn't seen an invasion by a foreign power for 200 years.

 

When the two greatest leaders of the 20th Century, Franklin D Roosevelt and Winston Churchill, met on the USS Augusta, in 1941, they both agreed to these noble principles;

 

1. Both countries agreed not to seek territorial expansion; 
2. to seek the liberalization of international trade; 
3. to establish freedom of the seas, 
4. to set international labour, economic, and welfare standards. 
5.  a committment to supporting the restoration of self-governments for all countries that had been occupied during the war
6. allowing all peoples to choose their own form of government

84 years on, the Germanic dunce in the Whitehouse has taken an enormous dump on that first principle, and the next, and the next. As for the fourth,  he'd quite happily seem Americans consigned to sweatshops making $ t-shirts that are American made. He's selling Ukraine down the river, just like Chamberlain did

 

What's your point? I actually took the time to read what you wrote for a change since normally it's just an anti-semitic or anti-American screed, but I don't understand what your point is? That there was some type of agreement between Roosevelt and Churchill that's being violated? Is there a treaty of some type that I'm not aware of? Are you just pissed that the American taxpayer doesn't want to finance the family war between Russia and Ukraine that incompetence in our foreign policy apparatus caused or contributed to? What's your point, the Ukraine is good and Russia is bad? Do you think the Ukraine serves any interest to the United States whatsoever other than what they might have in the ground? Did anyone give a hoot about the Ukraine before the Soviet Union broke up, other than ukrainians who have spent their lives in the West pining for their so-called country and plotting and scheming to manipulate the West into doing their dirty work for them.

 

You hate and despise America so you think we should help out your buds that probably hate and despise us as well?

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

You spelled continent wrong. Now run along

And you failed to put a period/full stop at the end of your last sentence oh great and mighty leader of the grammar police!

[Yagoda]

11 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

And you failed to put a period/full stop at the end of your last sentence oh great and mighty leader of the grammar police!

Morning stalking little puppy. Widdle Scotty, the yapping terrier. Ready to follow me around today? Ill be gone for a while, you can take a nap then, I know stalking is hard work.

[MicroB]

28 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

What's Putin going to rely on, his huge cash reserves? How long you think it's going to take him to build 4,000 tanks? Your knowledge of history and Military science is pathetic

 

Trum will do a deal with Putin, involving cash, to extra minerals from occupied Ukrainian territory, so that Musk doesn't have to buy them from China, so he can go to Mars. Trump his gagging to return overseas Russian reserves back to Putin.

 

Tanks are basically big tractors. They are really not that sophisticated. They can be made at pace, in quantity, depending how you spec them.  The losses of Abrams/Challengers/Leopards in that war against $100 FPV drones shows they are just as vulnerable as 70 year old hulls..

 

Putin is not building 4000 tanks from scratch. Hulls are refurbished. America hasn't made a new tank for decades. Instead, existing hulls are pulled from storage, and refurbished, and presented as new. The UK is fielding Challenger 3 tanks, to replace Challenger 2s. These are refurbished Challenger 2s, which were introduced around about 2002-3. Challenger 2s replaced Challenger 1s, which came in the mid-80s as the result of a canceled Iranian contract.

 

 Russia has anywhere between 5000-10,000 hulls in storage. No one really knows.

 

There are about 3000 MBTs in Western Europe, most of them varying grades of Leopard tank; the US pulled out the last of their tanks a decade ago. The US tanks sitting in a desert storage yard might as well not exist. If it all kicked off in Poland, Russia would not be sitting around watching the news of tanks in the US being readied and shipped across thr Atlantic.

 

It is of course a war of attrition; in someways, the conflict in Ukraine is one of the last acts of events sparked by a Duke getting shot in Sarajevo in 1914. The resulting conflict unleashed disruption in the European landscape that lasted into the 90s, with the dissolution of Yugoslavia, a nation borne out of the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian empire (because of the Great War). Or so we thought. Because the last act  is the dissolution of that last Empire; Russia. After Ukraine, we will see Chechenya and others get antsy.

 

The war in Ukraine will see the grin;ding away, on both sides, of equipment built and designed for this very conflict. If Russia runs out of tanks, then  we would have run out of tanks, and MBTs won't really matter then. Then Putin brings out the big guns, the nukes, which will test NATO resolve. If Putin demands the surrender of Warsaw, or he nukes it, I expect Trump to be clapping from the sidelines, claiming the Poles were bad hombres, and he never liked them.

 

But I'd rather those tanks being ground away around the mining towns of Donetsk rather than the plains of Germany. Which goes to the reason why the US invested in the defence of Europe; Europe was supposed to be where WW3 happened, not the US homeland. Europe accepted that happenchance of geography. Quid pro quo.

[AlexRich]

30 minutes ago, TedG said:

Does Trump have unlimited power? 

He’s working on it. 

[MicroB]

21 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

 anti-semitic

 

Switching off once you mention that insult. Try someone else with that lazy rubbish. You have no idea of my faith.

 

I literally don't care whether you read my posts or not, hence, I hardly ever respond to comments about my posts. Its like talking to the dead.

 

The rest of your post reads like someone who believes Communist drivel.

[TedG]

1 minute ago, AlexRich said:

He’s working on it. 

 

Nah.....

[Yagoda]

6 minutes ago, MicroB said:

 

Switching off once you mention that insult. Try someone else with that lazy rubbish. You have no idea of my faith.

 

I literally don't care whether you read my posts or not, hence, I hardly ever respond to comments about my posts. Its like talking to the dead.

 

The rest of your post reads like someone who believes Communist drivel.

As opposed to your National Socialist drivel.

[Yagoda]

19 minutes ago, MicroB said:

America hasn't made a new tank for decades.

We havent needed to

 

19 minutes ago, MicroB said:

Trump his gagging to return overseas Russian reserves back to Putin.

Liar. Show us the facts

 

19 minutes ago, MicroB said:

Russia has anywhere between 5000-10,000 hulls in storage. No one really knows.

I wonder how many are T34s

 

19 minutes ago, MicroB said:

the US pulled out the last of their tanks a decade ago

Uniformed much. Wow. https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2024-06-28/american-army-tanks-weapons-poland-14325181.html

 

19 minutes ago, MicroB said:

The losses of Abrams/Challengers/Leopards in that war against $100 FPV drones shows they are just as vulnerable as 70 year old hulls..

 

Tank losses by the Ukrainian "army" are not indicitive of what the losses would be in a real army

 

19 minutes ago, MicroB said:

f Putin demands the surrender of Warsaw, or he nukes it, I expect Trump to be clapping from the sidelines, claiming the Poles were bad hombres, and he never liked them.

Really? Abandon the Poles? What planet do you live on? Thats the last country to ever be abandoned by us, after Israel.

 

You are just an America hater and a Trump hater. The Ukes always knew this day was coming which is why they worked so hard to interfere in our politics. You are on their side obviously, so again, it sucks to be you.

[frank83628]

4 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Unfortunately he’s simply someone with a poor knowledge of history, and he applauds fools like Trump, a man who when faced with Putin soils his pants. Trump has effectively signalled that he won’t come to the aid of Europe, so NATO is now a busted flush. If Europe doesn’t build a war machine Putin will rearm and make his move on the Baltics. NATO is over … some haven’t realised it yet. 

I thought Russias economy was doomed.... how is Putin going to take over the baltics?

 

Make you mind up. Perhaps he's eyeing up Europe too...🤡

[frank83628]

11 hours ago, TedG said:

Russia agreed to respect Ukraine’s borders  This shows that you can’t trust a Russian. 

The US & NATO didn't respect Putins.

[beautifulthailand99]

4 hours ago, TedG said:

Here are some of Trump's deeds against Russia. 

 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/on-the-record-the-u-s-administrations-actions-on-russia/

 

When the Wager Group attacked the US soldiers in Syria in 2019. 

 

https://thewarhorse.org/special-forces-soldiers-reveal-first-details-of-battle-with-russian-mercenaries-in-syria/

https://vatniksoup.com/en/soups/199/

 

It's all a moot point now he was legitimately elected President and they are celebrating in the Kremlin. Do the math.

[Celsius]

was BBC really that big?