Trump Joins the Axis. NATO Dead. WW111 Imminent?

[theblether]

6 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

 

Note the de-militarization.

 

Do you think the world is currently safer with those nukes in the hands of a lunatic who wants to own Greenland and Gaza?

 

You're a nutter if you think fragmented states demilitarize. Did you not see what happened after the Arab Spring? and all the ethnic battles across the globe? 

 

Get a grip on yourself. 

[theblether]

7 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Which is a cogent argument for less nukes which isn't the point you made earlier.

 

The man is off his head. 

 

Only the demented left would complain about a President trying to end two wars. 

 

And these clowns refuse to accept that when the Allies stood down in Europe we effectively lost half the continent to the communists. 

 

It was a price the Allies were willing to pay to end conflict. This new brigade of drivelous clowns cannot explain how Ukraine can win the war from here. 

 

They cannot win, all they can hope for is to minimise the damage done by a peace deal. 

 

Just the same way as the Allies decided charging into the Russian lines in 1945 wasn't worth it. 

[jts-khorat]

16 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Which is a cogent argument for less nukes which isn't the point you made earlier.

 

Having sane superpowers protecting their allies would be an argument for less nukes (maybe not a 100% sane one, but the best we had so far).

 

However, it has become very clear from the actions of the USA and Russia, that smaller nation states owning nukes is essential to protect themselves from the rapacious assault by those superpowers.

 

Therefore the only option for not needing nukes is, having no superpowers at all!

 

I am quite sure that the economic damage to Russia due to the war in Ukraine is so big, that a break-up is unavoidable (compare what the much smaller Afghanistan war did to the USSR). So already the enlightened Europeans will need to find ways to disarm the resulting micro-states.

 

The USA is in a very precarious economic situation as well. Affronting all of their allies while at the same time being in a debt death spiral with China is a sure way to put the ship on the rocks.

 

Maybe a fascist coup is a way out of this, see what would have happened in the case of an unopposed Germany. However the chance is much higher, that Trump with his severely restricted world-view and limited intelligence role-playing as a fascist dictator will lead the USA into the same or worse situation as Germany 80 years ago. Which again would mean, that indeed the left-over states would have to be de-militarized.

 

The question is only, how much porcelain will have been broken until the Americans and Russians have been subjugated by the free and democratic world?

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

The editor of The Spectator, Freddie Gray, has come out with a pungent essay that he now feels emboldened to publish. Meanwhile, Boris Johnson, once a stout defender of Ukraine, remains silent 24 hours after Trump’s latest outburst, seemingly unwilling to alienate the MAGA crowd and risk losing their support. If the world had listened to me, we might have had a peace deal in 2022, potentially saving a million lives and leaving Europe in a much stronger position than it is now—perhaps even avoiding the rise of Trump. But here we are.

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-cruellest-thing-about-trump-vs-zelensky-trumps-right/

 

There’s no doubt that, in our eagerness to champion the man in the military fatigues, we overlooked the more sordid aspects of his leadership. The Pandora papers showing his links to shady offshore bank accounts were forgotten about. His ties to deeply corrupt and double-dealing oligarchs, such as Ihor Kolomoisky, were brushed over. His ruthless suppression of Moscow-affiliated religious groups was dismissed as Kremlin ‘disinformation’.

Western politicians, and military-industrial types who have made a lot of money from the war effort, have always known, deep down, that in supporting Ukraine against Putin they have covered up awkward truths. What really frightens them now is not necessarily Trump’s recklessness. It’s that the murkier realities of the Ukraine-Russia relationship and the West’s involvement in the conflict going back to 2014 and before, may soon come to light.

[beautifulthailand99]

4 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

 

Having sane superpowers protecting their allies would be an argument for less nukes (maybe not a 100% sane one, but the best we had so far).

 

However, it has become very clear from the actions of the USA and Russia, that smaller nation states owning nukes is essential to protect themselves from the rapacious assault by those superpowers.

 

I am quite sure that the economic damage to Russia due to the war in Ukraine is so big, that a break-up is unavoidable (compare what the much smaller Afghanistan war did to the USSR). So already the enlightened Europeans will need to find ways to disarm the resulting micro-states.

 

The USA is in a very precarious economic situation as well. Affronting all of their allies while at the same time being in a debt death spiral with China is a sure way to put the ship on the rocks.

 

Maybe a fascist coup is a way out of this, see what would have happened in the case of an unopposed Germany. However the chance is much higher, that Trump with his severely restricted world-view and limited intelligence role-playing as a fascist dictator will lead the USA into the same or worse situation as Germany 80 years ago. Which again would mean, that indeed the left-over states would have to be de-militarized.

 

The question is only, how much porcelain will have been broken until the Americans and Russians have been subjugated by the free and democratic world?

 

 

No, Russia won’t break up. The people will endure extreme hardship, even eating their pets and living in filth, as long as the central government holds. Their greatest fear is a repeat of the post-collapse anarchy of Perestroika, when the economy and social system disintegrated almost overnight. Then there’s the five-million-strong security apparatus—the Siloviki—who have everything to lose if the state falls apart.

 

As long as the lights stay on, there’s food on the table, and cheap vodka to numb the pain, they will endure. Besides, as the world’s largest country with the planet’s richest mineral reserves, they can always trade with China.

 

But that said things are going to get pretty rough almost everywhere from hereonin that's baked into the cake now and you can't unbake it.

[theblether]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

No it won't break up the Russians will eat their pets and live in filth as long as the centre holds. Their biggest fear is the post fall anarchy of Perestroika where the ecomomy and social system simply collapsed almost overnight. Then there's the 5 million security state the Silovoki who have everything to lose if the centre falls. A

 

Aye but according to him "enlightened Europeans" will save the day. 

 

He must be drunk. 

[beautifulthailand99]

1 minute ago, theblether said:

 

Aye but according to him "enlightened Europeans" will save the day. 

 

He must be drunk. 

When the thugs come knocking at the door us liberals are the first to fall.........silent.

[jts-khorat]

6 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

No it won't break up the Russians will eat their pets and live in filth as long as the centre holds.

 

They already do that outside of Moscow and St Petersburg. Therefore Putin has prioritized to send men from the impoverished provinces of the far east to the front.

 

He got a lot of them killed, which will prevent any economic pay-off from the war.

 

But worse in the long-term for Russia, those that have survived are now well-trained and likely armed people with a grudge for having been used for meatwave attacks by the "city people". Cue what happened last time: 1917.

 

So in my book, Russia is cooked, only the timeframe is unclear.

[TedG]

16 hours ago, Old Croc said:

The US President is expanding his lies and ambitions beyond his moronic followers at home  and is siding with former world adverseries against former allies. He is lying on the world stage and the outcome will be dire for Ukraine and perilous for other European countries in Russias territorial gun sights.  He is cutting historic ties with Europe, Britain and even close neighbors. He is placing personal wealth, power or embarrassment before world order. One man, and a coven of craven, religious nutcases, may destroy the planet. 

 

'I think that's over': Retired general declares death of key U.S. alliance

 

BTW, the Axis powers were Germany, Italy, and Japan.  Russia was aligned with the Allied powers.  This is a bad analogy. 

[theblether]

I've made it clear I detested the USSR, and I have a lifetime deep and abiding hatred for Marxism. 

 

I am repelled by the actions of the Russian state. My point is simple, which should make it easy for our simpletons to understand. 

 

UKr cannot win. 

 

I would love a deal to be done which results in them immediately joining NATO as a condition of peace, just to ram it up Putin. 

 

But they can't force Russia back to 2022 lines never mind 2014. 

 

It's as simple as that. 

[jts-khorat]

4 minutes ago, theblether said:

Aye but according to him "enlightened Europeans" will save the day.

 

Enlightenment is not part of the American way, that at least has been proven.

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

 

They already do that outside of Moscow and St Petersburg. Therefore Putin has prioritized to send men from the impoverished provinces of the far east to the front.

 

He got a lot of them killed, which will prevent any economic pay-off from the war.

 

But worse in the long-term for Russia, those that have survived are no well-trained and likely armed people with a grudge for having been used for meatwave attacks by the "city people". Cue what happened last time: 1917.

 

So in my book, Russia is cooked, only the timeframe is unclear.

Russians can endure anything. Their capacity for suffering is virtually  limitless, and their patience far outlasts their oppressors. Just ask Napoleon and Hitler - DON'T POKE THE BEAR it should be written on Mount Rushmore under the new face of Donald Trump as a reminder to generations to come.

[beautifulthailand99]

4 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

 

Enlightenment is not part of the American way, that at least has been proven.

Aye ....but burgers.... they won that war. As a 17 year old commie at college I remember a heated argument with friends and comardes in which I espostulated America would turn fascist in my lifetime and would be called Amerika. It doesn't make me happy to be proved right but I never envisaged this clown show who could imagine that ?

[TedG]

4 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

 

Enlightenment is not part of the American way, that at least has been proven.

 

Says the person from a country who can't defend itself. 

[jts-khorat]

10 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Russians can endure anything. Their capacity for suffering is virtually  limitless, and their patience far outlasts their oppressors. Just ask Napoleon and Hitler - DON'T POKE THE BEAR it should be written on Mount Rushmore under the new face of Donald Trump as a reminder to generations to come.

 

If you look at what lead to the failure of Hitler's march on Moscow: he was a crazy person with initial luck in his strategic decisions (making him wrongly think that he was a strategic genius); he attacked with his army badly prepared and at the wrong season; and he thought to win immediate "living space" instead of a long-term solution where he simply waited for the Russians to turn on each other (difficult to do while they got stronger by the day with Allied help).

 

That the Russians cannot be defeated is simply a myth. As is that Germany are good ingenieurs (we cannot even get our trains to come on time), or that the Americans are fair and free.

 

Maybe it is time to throw away some of those old misconceptions and test them against reality.

 

Only one thing is true: in all this, the Europeans are the only ones keeping to law and order and democratic values (i.e. being enlightened).

[beautifulthailand99]

Putin is more ruthless than Hitler—Rommel was allowed an honorable death after taking part in the assassination plot, whereas Prigozhin was blown out of the sky after a 'chef’s kiss' from Putin.

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

7 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

 

If you look at what lead to the failure of Hitler's march on Moscow: he was a crazy person with initial luck in his strategic decisions (making him think that he was a strategic genius); he attacked with his army badly prepared and at the wrong season; and he thought to win immediate "living space" instead of a long-term solution where he simply waited for the Russians to turn on each other (difficult to do while they got stornger by the day with Allied help).

 

That the Russians cannot be defeated is simply a mythos. As is that Germany are good ingenieurs (we cannot even get our trains to come on time), or that the Americans are fair and free.

 

Maybe it is time to throw away some of those old misconceptions and test them against reality.

 

Only one thing is true: in all this, the Europeans are the only ones keeping to law and order and democratic values (i.e. being enlightened).

Sorry my German friend or if you want that adventure on your soil again be my guest  I would prefer in the UK with our "moat' and nukes to stay out of other's beefs. The Switzerland solution as I like to call it. It has worked well for them. And if Russia want a second revolution that's up to them we should stay out of interfering in other's systems. It seldom ends well.

[jts-khorat]

6 minutes ago, TedG said:

Says the person from a country who can't defend itself. 

 

Look up who is the biggest weapons merchant after the USA on the planet.

 

Frankly I would have thought that it is the better solution to not have a new German army involved in an arms race for planetary dominion. But if push comes to shove, I think the economic power and resolve of all Europeans combined would be well sufficient to make all kinds of uncomfortable scenarios true.

 

However, this would mess up my argument that we Europeans are all so enlightened, so I let you have your point.

[kimamey]

16 hours ago, johng said:

 

His mandated /elected term ended a long time ago,  by his dictate there are  no more elections,  so he is now the unelected "leader".

The elections were postponed due to the war as it might be difficult to hold a vote in Crimea and eastern Ukraine. As far as I know the postponement was carried out under the terms of the Ukraine constitution.

Britain postponed elections during WW11and local elections were moved during Covid. It's not that unusual.

[save the frogs]

EU investing $700 Billion into its military to protect against Russia without relying on the US? 

 

 

[newbee2022]

Well, he looks into the abyss but doesn't know.

And soon bamboozled by Lawrov.

And T would not even know that he initiated WW3. 

[RetiredNavy71]

19 hours ago, Old Croc said:

The US President is expanding his lies and ambitions beyond his moronic followers at home  and is siding with former world adverseries against former allies. He is lying on the world stage and the outcome will be dire for Ukraine and perilous for other European countries in Russias territorial gun sights.  He is cutting historic ties with Europe, Britain and even close neighbors. He is placing personal wealth, power or embarrassment before world order. One man, and a coven of craven, religious nutcases, may destroy the planet. 

 

'I think that's over': Retired general declares death of key U.S. alliance

 

Well said brother 

[RetiredNavy71]

19 hours ago, Harrisfan said:

USSR saved Europe in ww2 

Try reading your history books again sport.   In case you can't read, the Americans and the Russians both saved Europe 

[MicroB]

18 hours ago, KireB said:

If you are blind to historic facts, you must have been one of the children not be left behind. What do they teach in US schools about history?

 

And American/British aid saved the USSR. The great majority of Soviet citizens who died were Belarussians and Ukrainians, not Russians.

 

The war was won by a collaborative effort. No one could have won it on their own. All the pieces were necessary. If such unity was in place in 1938, Hitler would have been out on his ear (by 1940, Germany would have been bankrupt if it hadn't gone to war).

 

None of the participants acted out of alturism. It was all for self preservation. If all of Europe had fallen to under the German jackboot, there wasn't much the US could do about that. But it would affect America all the same; it would have fallen to the same dark political forces sweeping across Europe in the 1930s. Its beyond argument that the United States of America would have been finished.

[MicroB]

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Putin is more ruthless than Hitler—Rommel was allowed an honorable death after taking part in the assassination plot, whereas Prigozhin was blown out of the sky after a 'chef’s kiss' from Putin.

 

 

 

Probably wrong to compare a thug-cook to Rommel. Hitler was not merciful to Rommel; he was afraid of a mutiny.

 

If Rommel had been executed following a Spandau Ballet, it still would have been an honourable death, as a martyr.

 

Progozhin suffered a mobster hit.

 

[Olav Seglem]

Ukraine admidst a war, thats why no elections. Zs approval rating higher and Diaperdonnies.

Ussr had nonattact pact with japan until august 45-did nothing.

And in Europe, "coward" has got a new synonyme, since a reliable friend turned out no friend at all.

Which countries did help us in afganistan etc ???

[MicroB]

18 hours ago, johng said:

Same as they always are. 

Russia is even in agreement there should be an election so I suppose they would  honour a ceasefire for the few days it would take to allow the Ukrainians to go to the polls.

 

But Ukrainians have been displaced from their registered constituencies. Plus Russia has annexed areas; why would they allow occupants of those territories to vote in a Ukrainian election. And how could Ukraine ensure that voters from those territories have a legitimate vote, and are not in fact settlers. How would Ukrainian POWs hold a vote. How can politicans campaign in POW camps in the Russian far east? It might meet the standards of a sham Russian election, but it could not be considered free and fair.

 

Plus the Ukrainian parliament and judiciary would need to vote on a change to the constitution.

[dantho]

19 hours ago, johng said:

 

His mandated /elected term ended a long time ago,  by his dictate there are  no more elections,  so he is now the unelected "leader".

How on earth can any country hold an election when it is daily bombarded from an enemy state? Zelensky is trying his best to keep his country out of the hands of Putin who has been in power for 20+ years and voted in on elections which are to say the very least fraudulent. 

[Chosenfew]

[dantho]

20 hours ago, Old Croc said:

The US President is expanding his lies and ambitions beyond his moronic followers at home  and is siding with former world adverseries against former allies. He is lying on the world stage and the outcome will be dire for Ukraine and perilous for other European countries in Russias territorial gun sights.  He is cutting historic ties with Europe, Britain and even close neighbors. He is placing personal wealth, power or embarrassment before world order. One man, and a coven of craven, religious nutcases, may destroy the planet. 

 

'I think that's over': Retired general declares death of key U.S. alliance

 

As Trump has now set his heart on being an ally of Putin and seems to be cutting any ties with Europe and the UK, isn't it about time that Europe and the UK cut ties with Trump. Defy both him and Putin and immediately invite Ukraine to join both NATO and the EU.