Just received a Tax form in the post - what next ?

[tomazbodner]

2 minutes ago, tomgreen said:

 

many thanks, for taking the time to post , its appreciated. I followed your instructions , but cannot see the '' submit on line '' only this page ( see screen shot ) 

First line, "Filled" green button for "B.E.D.D. 90/91"

 

 

On the next page, file as "Separated" ... translations suck sometimes and seems your translator uses different words than mine.

[tomgreen]

25 minutes ago, mikebell said:

Me too.  I have a UK state pension (after 44 years of service), frozen for 20 years; about 15,500 per MONTH!  Luckily I have a Government Pension (teachers/police/firemen) which is Index linked.  This is exempt from Thai tax.

One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was to inform the UK pension department that I was living in Thailand . I have even thought about moving to the Philippians or returning back to the Uk ( for 6 months ) but at my age ( 75 ) It may not be worth all the stress and trouble ☹️.

[tomazbodner]

24 minutes ago, tomgreen said:

 

many thanks, for taking the time to post , its appreciated. I followed your instructions , but cannot see the '' submit on line '' only this page ( see screen shot ) 

Just looking at the form again - I didn't notice the last one: so if you were having income coming from abroad (transfers from abroad like from renting out place, selling it, stock income, etc.) then it would be the last one. But for income inside Thailand, so nothing transferred from abroad, it would be the first one.

[tomgreen]

2 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Just looking at the form again - I didn't see notice the last one: so if you were having income coming from abroad (transfers from abroad like from renting out place, selling it, stock income, etc.) then it would be the last one. But for income inside Thailand, so nothing transferred from abroad, it would be the first one.

Thanks again , I'm going to take another look 

[Mutt Daeng]

1 hour ago, daveAustin said:

You can order 12-month statements for free through the BB app and they come fast (emailed as PDF), albeit don't know if TRD would require a certificate from the bank as well, which would then be 200 baht.

Thanks. Yes, I can get the 12 month statement via my app (kasikorn) but some agencies (depending on the agency) require the banks stamp and a signature on the statement. I don't know whether TRD requires it or not, so I am erring on the side of caution.

[Mutt Daeng]

59 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Just looking at the form again - I didn't notice the last one: so if you were having income coming from abroad (transfers from abroad like from renting out place, selling it, stock income, etc.) then it would be the last one. But for income inside Thailand, so nothing transferred from abroad, it would be the first one.

It's interesting (to me anyway) that option 1 doesn't include pensions, but the paper PND90 & PND91 forms do mention pensions under employment. Any thoughts on that?

[flexomike]

2 hours ago, tomgreen said:

Thanks , thats very helpful. Ive just had a thought, the Thai bank where in the past I claimed back the tax that was taken ( Krungsri bank ) is different from the Thai bank where my UK state pension is paid into ( Bangkok Bank )  I can obtain the tax statement from the Krungsri bank, but I'm not sure what I would have to ask for from the Bangkok bank , to show my UK state pension income .

Just get a one year statement for 2024 from Bangkok, it will show all of your deposits for the year that were transferred in from the UK, add them up and just give them that number

[flexomike]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Does the OP have a tax ID number? Is that visible on the form?

 

I would have thought without a tax ID, the TRD can't find you?

He filed taxes previously so he has to have a tax IF

[tomazbodner]

24 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

It's interesting (to me anyway) that option 1 doesn't include pensions, but the paper PND90 & PND91 forms do mention pensions under employment. Any thoughts on that?

If pensions/income was generated in Thailand, then it is local income and goes to option 1. But if it is from abroad, it would go to last option.

[redwood1]

4 hours ago, tomgreen said:

Thanks, so its looking more and more like that I need to fill out the tax form, my problem is that my Thai wife does not understand the questions on the tax form , and I'm not too happy about paying a tax consultant to advise me what to do. 

 

Well lucky you have that extra 2000 baht to help pay a tax consultant.....lol

[henryford1958]

2 hours ago, mikebell said:

Me too.  I have a UK state pension (after 44 years of service), frozen for 20 years; about 15,500 per MONTH!  Luckily I have a Government Pension (teachers/police/firemen) which is Index linked.  This is exempt from Thai tax.

 

So anyone with a UK Government pension is exempt from Thai tax and doesn't need to make a tax return. Like you i have a very small frozen state pension, well below the allowances.

[Mutt Daeng]

1 hour ago, tomazbodner said:

If pensions/income was generated in Thailand, then it is local income and goes to option 1. But if it is from abroad, it would go to last option.

So if you do a paper submission you use PND90/91 for money remitted to TH from abroad, but if you file online you don't use the online  equivalent of PND90/91? Seems strange to me.

Perhaps I am missing something?

[hotandsticky]

43 minutes ago, henryford1958 said:

 

So anyone with a UK Government pension is exempt from Thai tax and doesn't need to make a tax return. Like you i have a very small frozen state pension, well below the allowances.

 

 

Be careful about differentiating between State Pension (which is included in the taxable income) and Government pension ie Civil Service which is excluded.

[tomgreen]

56 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Well lucky you have that extra 2000 baht to help pay a tax consultant.....lol

Thinking that being able to claim the tax taken from my Thai savings bank account , was a good idea , I now know different , how does the saying go ....

There's nothing like an old fool 😀.

[tomgreen]

8 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Be careful about differentiating between State Pension (which is included in the taxable income) and Government pension ie Civil Service which is excluded.

Trust me to get things mixed up. 🙄

[tomazbodner]

17 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

So if you do a paper submission you use PND90/91 for money remitted to TH from abroad, but if you file online you don't use the online  equivalent of PND90/91? Seems strange to me.

Perhaps I am missing something?

That form you fill online is pngd 90/91. Just that you only enter the data into a simplified form and it does all calculations for you. At the end you can preview the filled out "paper form" for you and after you submit, you can download the form (without watermark) as well as a receipt.

 

So it's just not filling it on paper and manually calculating - you just enter the same things you would in the paper form and it automatically calculates and fills out the form for you, hence it takes only a few minutes to complete.

[hotandsticky]

7 minutes ago, tomgreen said:

Trust me to get things mixed up. 🙄

 

 

LOL....I only know because somebody corrected me.

[tomgreen]

2 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Just looking at the form again - I didn't notice the last one: so if you were having income coming from abroad (transfers from abroad like from renting out place, selling it, stock income, etc.) then it would be the last one. But for income inside Thailand, so nothing transferred from abroad, it would be the first one.

 Many thanks, I just went into town to do some shopping and called into the small government tax office ( staffed by 3 people ) . I handed over the tax form that I had received  in the post at my house, and asked the lady sitting at the desk , what do I have to do about this form , and showed her my Tax ID card.  The lady said that she could complete the form online , but she also said that to fully submit all the information , she would need to see a recent up to date tax claim form from my Thai savings bank ( Krungsri  ) . Once the local tax office lady had the up to date tax claim form , she could then process and complete the required tax form for me. I asked the tax lady ,  as my UK state pension is being paid directly into my Bangkok Bank account , do I need to go to that Bangkok Bank and request some sort of paperwork confirming how much I receive for my UK state pension , and then give that paperwork to her. The tax lady said No. 

[tomgreen]

4 hours ago, mikebell said:

Me too.  I have a UK state pension (after 44 years of service), frozen for 20 years; about 15,500 per MONTH!  Luckily I have a Government Pension (teachers/police/firemen) which is Index linked.  This is exempt from Thai tax.

 

As British citizens we must remember that our wonderful government needs the money generated by not paying full pensions to people who have paid into the system all their working life and who decided to retire in another country ,  so the government can help with hotel accommodation costs for the increasing flood of illegal immigrants .🛶 .

[NoDisplayName]

 

As you're married, your TEDA increases.  Check the list of allowances for health and life insurance (paid to Thai companies), support for parents and children, payments to social insurance, certain investments.  You might also get another 190K if wife is >65.

 

You'll likely never pay tax.

 

[tomazbodner]

28 minutes ago, tomgreen said:

 Many thanks, I just went into town to do some shopping and called into the small government tax office ( staffed by 3 people ) . I handed over the tax form that I had received  in the post at my house, and asked the lady sitting at the desk , what do I have to do about this form , and showed her my Tax ID card.  The lady said that she could complete the form online , but she also said that to fully submit all the information , she would need to see a recent up to date tax claim form from my Thai savings bank ( Krungsri  ) . Once the local tax office lady had the up to date tax claim form , she could then process and complete the required tax form for me. I asked the tax lady ,  as my UK state pension is being paid directly into my Bangkok Bank account , do I need to go to that Bangkok Bank and request some sort of paperwork confirming how much I receive for my UK state pension , and then give that paperwork to her. The tax lady said No. 

I have always found revenue people to be very helpful and I am happy to see your experience seems similar.

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

If pensions/income was generated in Thailand, then it is local income and goes to option 1. But if it is from abroad, it would go to last option.

 

I'm almost shirley foreign pensions will go in line 1, as pensions are considered "income derived from employment."

 

Pay attention to which lines to TRD officer fills in.  You can do it online next year and save the trouble of a visit to the tax office.  Only takes ten minutes.  Most of the form is pre-filled, you only add pension and bank interest.

[KannikaP]

15 hours ago, tomgreen said:

 

Thanks, the only money I have coming into Thailand ( to my Bangkok bank account ) is a small monthly government retirement pension . I have a feeling that if I do go to the local Thai tax office and start asking questions , things could end up becoming more complicated. I was hoping that if I don't plan to make any more claims to receive back tax taken from my Thai savings account , I could just ignore the form . 

Like you, I get the UK State Pension plus a small addition from Norway. Got a TIN two years ago from my local, Bang Rakam, tax office. First year paid Bht 200 for doing it late, last year and this year....nowt to pay. Into the office this morning, out in 10 minutes. I tried to do it myself online but got nowhere. 

[Sheryl]

51 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

I'm almost shirley foreign pensions will go in line 1, as pensions are considered "income derived from employment."

 

Pay attention to which lines to TRD officer fills in.  You can do it online next year and save the trouble of a visit to the tax office.  Only takes ten minutes.  Most of the form is pre-filled, you only add pension and bank interest.

Correct, all assessable pension income goes in line 1 (though in the case of a foreign pension, only what was remitted to Thailand).

 

A 50% deduction up to maximum 100k  can then be taken on the line called "expenses". 

 

And don't forget the 190k deduction for being over age 65 (if applIcable)  in section B as well as the 60k personal exemption (more if married filing jointly or if have dependents). 

 

With all this and given that the first 150k of net income is tax free, most people will owe little if no tax if living solely on a pension.

 

Note that some pension incomes from some countries is non-assessable in Thsiland so check the wording of the relevant tax treaty. 

Non-assessable invome does not get reported on tax form.  (The UK OAP is assessable but UK government pensions are not).

 

Revenue offices are often not up to date as regards foreigner specific issues. If all income is assessable and no credit needed for taxes paid in home country, doesn't much matter but otherwise would IMO do better to file by yourself online. (Or not file at all if there is no assessable income). 

[tomgreen]

35 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

As you're married, your TEDA increases.  Check the list of allowances for health and life insurance (paid to Thai companies), support for parents and children, payments to social insurance, certain investments.  You might also get another 190K if wife is >65.

 

You'll likely never pay tax.

 

Hi and thanks, I'm a bit dumb , can you please tell me a bit more about TEDA increases ( I did google , but not very helpful ) 

[tomgreen]

28 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Correct, all assessable pension income goes in line (though in the case of a foreign pension, only what was remitted to Thailand).

 

A 50% deduction up to maximum 100k  can then be taken on the line called "expenses". 

 

And don't forget the 190k deduction for being over age 65 (if applIcable)  in section B as well as the 60k personal exemption (more if married filing  jointly or if have dependents). 

 

With all this and given that the first 150k of net income is tax free, most people will owe little if no tax if living solely on a pension.

 

Note that some pension incomes from some countries is non-assessable in Thailand so check the wording of the relevant tax treaty. 

Non-assessable income does not get reported on tax form.  (The UK OAP is assessable but UK government pensions are not).

 

Revenue offices are often not up to date as regards foreigner specific issues. If all income is assessable and no credit needed for taxes paid in home country, doesn't much matter but otherwise would IMO do better to file by yourself online. (Or not file at all if there is no assessable income). 

Hi and thanks, as you no doubt can tell , this is all new to me and I'm still learning , but its still a bit confusing. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

13 minutes ago, tomgreen said:

Hi and thanks, I'm a bit dumb , can you please tell me a bit more about TEDA increases ( I did google , but not very helpful ) 

See 

 

[tomazbodner]

17 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Correct, all assessable pension income goes in line (though in the case of a foreign pension, only what was remitted to Thailand).

 

Thank you, but there is a question on the "remitted to Thailand" as I remember there was some article that credit card transactions are also considered part of it.

 

So if someone used foreign credit card / ATM card for withdrawals of cash in Thailand, I kind of understand (but if you then asked your bank for statement, that would not be in THB but local currency of the bank - also how would they separate between withdrawals in Thailand vs other countries, say someone withdrew cash in Singapore or Malaysia?). And of course what actually gets included in transactions. If someone from say US or UK or whatever used their country's credit card to pay for Starbucks - is that included? If he/she did that at Starbucks in international area of the airport (or withdraw cash there - beyond immigration) - is that still included? Also if someone hand carries 10k USD (that's allowed without declaration) to Thailand - does that have to be included?

 

I have tried and failed to find such information. But "samut wah" this was included - how was someone going to provide documentation for all the lodging, shopping and dining as transactions to Thailand? It seems completely impractical.

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

 

Thank you, but there is a question on the "remitted to Thailand" as I remember there was some article that credit card transactions are also considered part of it.

 

So if someone used foreign credit card / ATM card for withdrawals of cash in Thailand, I kind of understand (but if you then asked your bank for statement, that would not be in THB but local currency of the bank - also how would they separate between withdrawals in Thailand vs other countries, say someone withdrew cash in Singapore or Malaysia?). And of course what actually gets included in transactions. If someone from say US or UK or whatever used their country's credit card to pay for Starbucks - is that included? If he/she did that at Starbucks in international area of the airport (or withdraw cash there - beyond immigration) - is that still included? Also if someone hand carries 10k USD (that's allowed without declaration) to Thailand - does that have to be included?

 

I have tried and failed to find such information. But "samut wah" this was included - how was someone going to provide documentation for all the lodging, shopping and dining as transactions to Thailand? It seems completely impractical.

It is uttetly  impractical to try to include all foreign credit card use in Thailand  and nobody does.  Further, you'd need to know how those charges were paid for, e.g. savings or income or what. Expenditure of savings is not assessable income. 

 

Don't over think this. 

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

22 minutes ago, tomgreen said:

Hi and thanks, I'm a bit dumb , can you please tell me a bit more about TEDA increases ( I did google , but not very helpful ) 

 

You as a single foreigner, non-employed, would likely only take the basic 60K, plus 190K over 65.  Assume you have foreign health/life insurance policies.

 

If you're married and file jointly, you add the wife's 60K.  If wife is over 65, you might get to add another 190K. ( I DON'T know that for a fact, so better confirm.)

 

A Thai wife likely pays life/health insurance premiums to a Thai company, up to a certain limit deductible.   Wives come with relatives that may increase your deductions, depending on specific circumstances.

 

My wife is not working, but paying monthly into the social insurance scheme until 55.  Those contributions are deductible.  At 55 she then begins to collect benefits.

 

Take a gander at page 5 of the PN90 "allowances and exemptions attachment" and see if anything else might apply.  Not that you need to, as you are already well under the tax threshold.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/220367PIT90.pdf