US Halts Military Aid to Ukraine Amid Push for Peace Talks

[rough diamond]

25 minutes ago, transam said:

Sunbeam, you have a "leftist" problem, perhaps you need counciling, you could do a threesome with Trump & Vance...........

I am not sure that even they would accept him and his "views".

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

There ya go again, THE LEFT...........🙄

Sorry, I fixed it for you: 

 

One does have to be fly on the wall. If one reads a bit, they would:
 
Remember in the Debate when Romney claimed Russian was the greatest geopolitical threat, and Obama scoffing and joking: Senator, the '80s called and want their foreign policy back. 
Remember Obama caught on a hot mike begging Putin for "space" until after the election in exchange for canceling missile defense.
Remember the "Russian Reset".
Remember Obama's refusal to sell defensive weapons to Ukraine.
Remember Obama did nothing in 2014 when Putin invaded and began the occupation of Crimea. 

 

And one would note that: 

Then Trump places sanctions on Russia. 
Then Trump kills 200 of Russia's Wagner Group mercenaries in Syria.
Then Trump begins shipping arms, including Javelin missiles to Ukraine. 

 

And one would: 

Now remember Biden cancelling sanctions on Russia, including those imposed by Trump to gain favor with Putin. 
Now remember Biden halting arms sales to Ukraine to gain favor with Putin. 
Now remember Biden's surrender debacle in Afghanistan, emboldening Putin. 
Now remember Biden saying that the US would not respond to Russia invading Ukraine, if it were only a minor invasion, further emboldening Putin. 

 

The left Trump obsessed haters seemed to care nothing about Ukraine until it became politically expedient for them to use in attacking Trump and to pretend Trump was a Russian asset. 

 

The American left Trump obsessed haters would rather see every Ukrainian dead and half of Europe flattened than to see a peace agreement negotiated by Trump. 

 

 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Sorry, I fixed it for you: 

 

One does have to be fly on the wall. If one reads a bit, they would:
 
Remember in the Debate when Romney claimed Russian was the greatest geopolitical threat, and Obama scoffing and joking: Senator, the '80s called and want their foreign policy back. 
Remember Obama caught on a hot mike begging Putin for "space" until after the election in exchange for canceling missile defense.
Remember the "Russian Reset".
Remember Obama's refusal to sell defensive weapons to Ukraine.
Remember Obama did nothing in 2014 when Putin invaded and began the occupation of Crimea. 

 

And one would note that: 

Then Trump places sanctions on Russia. 
Then Trump kills 200 of Russia's Wagner Group mercenaries in Syria.
Then Trump begins shipping arms, including Javelin missiles to Ukraine. 

 

And one would: 

Now remember Biden cancelling sanctions on Russia, including those imposed by Trump to gain favor with Putin. 
Now remember Biden halting arms sales to Ukraine to gain favor with Putin. 
Now remember Biden's surrender debacle in Afghanistan, emboldening Putin. 
Now remember Biden saying that the US would not respond to Russia invading Ukraine, if it were only a minor invasion, further emboldening Putin. 

 

The left Trump obsessed haters seemed to care nothing about Ukraine until it became politically expedient for them to use in attacking Trump and to pretend Trump was a Russian asset. 

 

The American left Trump obsessed haters would rather see every Ukrainian dead and half of Europe flattened than to see a peace agreement negotiated by Trump. 

 

 

Your nuts...........

[rough diamond]

1 hour ago, johng said:

The rockets would need guidance from US military assets...

Which rockets and which guidance?

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

Which rockets and which guidance?

The rockets and guidance discussed earlier in the thread. 

[johng]

Just now, rough diamond said:

Which rockets and which guidance?

I believe storm shadow and Atcms would require us military satellite target aquistion and guidance ?

However i'm no military weapons expert !

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, johng said:

I believe storm shadow and Atcms would require us military satellite target aquistion and guidance ?

However i'm no military weapons expert !

And I do not think any of them, including the domestic product which they may be able to fire, has the range to hit Moscow from Ukraine. 

[rough diamond]

16 minutes ago, johng said:

I believe storm shadow and Atcms would require us military satellite target aquistion and guidance ?

However i'm no military weapons expert !

ATACAMs uses INS which can be supported by GPS while storm shadow uses a mixture of guidance systems none of which MUST use GPS.

Neither have the range to hit Moscow from Ukraine.

[0ffshore360]

On 3/4/2025 at 12:45 PM, RuamRudy said:

Congratulations to Vladimir and Russia, who have won the cold war. I never expected the US to fold so completely and with such a pathetic display of simpering compliance but I guess they have been routed from the inside. 

When haven't they ?

[MikeandDow]

14 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

ATACAMs uses INS which can be supported by GPS while storm shadow uses a mixture of guidance systems none of which MUST use GPS.

Neither have the range to hit Moscow from Ukraine.

If launched from Chernigov region of Ukraine, Storm Shadow missile can reach Moscow

It has the range to reach Moscow from many parts of Northern Ukraine, including from the border aria north of Kharkiv, to the area North of Chernihiv. Also, if air launched, there is nothing, (other than Russia Air defense systems of questionable capability), keeping Ukraine from flying about 50 miles into Russia to launch if need be.

[Bannoi]

On the positive side Europe is waking up to the fact it must be responsible for its own defence the long-held assumption that NATO was strong enough to deter any aggressor has been dispelled by what is perceived as the betrayal by its most powerful member.

 

There was a very good reason countries wanted to join NATO which is purely a defensive organisation and that was the threat of Russian aggression it wasn’t that NATO is pursuing a policy of aggressively expanding eastward that is just Russian propaganda, it’s that those countries were genuinely fearful of Russia and with good reason.

 

When it gets its act together and it must Europe and the EU will prove to be a strong enough force on its own with its own version of NATO and it will not be relying on America or American weapons in fact, I can see NATO being disbanded at some time in the not too far distant future. One loser will be the American defence and aircraft industries who would not only lose European sales but possibly others as well.

 

There appears to be a decidedly Anti-American sentiment growing in Europe and Canada even to the extent of consumers not buying American goods and its all because of Trump and his policy’s.

 

If ever all these countries being threatened by Trump got together they could really screw him the downside is that they would also be hurting themselves though maybe not as much and they just might think it is worth it.

 

Make no mistake its Russia who the aggressor  in Europe and Trump the appeaser who has and is selling out Americas friends and allies.

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

If launched from Chernigov region of Ukraine, Storm Shadow missile can reach Moscow

It has the range to reach Moscow from many parts of Northern Ukraine, including from the border aria north of Kharkiv, to the area North of Chernihiv. Also, if air launched, there is nothing, (other than Russia Air defense systems of questionable capability), keeping Ukraine from flying about 50 miles into Russia to launch if need be.

Is that not about 500-600km? I think the Storm Shadow range is under 300km

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

On the positive side Europe is waking up to the fact it must be responsible for its own defence the long-held assumption that NATO was strong enough to deter any aggressor has been dispelled by what is perceived as the betrayal by its most powerful member.

 

There was a very good reason countries wanted to join NATO which is purely a defensive organisation and that was the threat of Russian aggression it wasn’t that NATO is pursuing a policy of aggressively expanding eastward that is just Russian propaganda, it’s that those countries were genuinely fearful of Russia and with good reason.

 

When it gets its act together and it must Europe and the EU will prove to be a strong enough force on its own with its own version of NATO and it will not be relying on America or American weapons in fact, I can see NATO being disbanded at some time in the not too far future. One loser will be the American defence and aircraft industries who would not only lose European sales but possibly others as well.

 

There appears to be a decidedly Anti-American sentiment growing in Europe and Canada even to the extent of consumers not buying American goods and its all because of Trump and his policy’s.

 

If ever all these countries being threatened by Trump got together they could really screw him the downside is that they would also be hurting themselves though maybe not as much and they just might think it is worth it.

 

Make no mistake its Russia who the aggressor  in Europe and Trump the appeaser who has and is selling out Americas friends and allies.

Well said.........

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

On the positive side Europe is waking up to the fact it must be responsible for its own defence the long-held assumption that NATO was strong enough to deter any aggressor has been dispelled by what is perceived as the betrayal by its most powerful member.

 

There was a very good reason countries wanted to join NATO which is purely a defensive organisation and that was the threat of Russian aggression it wasn’t that NATO is pursuing a policy of aggressively expanding eastward that is just Russian propaganda, it’s that those countries were genuinely fearful of Russia and with good reason.

 

When it gets its act together and it must Europe and the EU will prove to be a strong enough force on its own with its own version of NATO and it will not be relying on America or American weapons in fact, I can see NATO being disbanded at some time in the not too far distant future. One loser will be the American defence and aircraft industries who would not only lose European sales but possibly others as well.

 

There appears to be a decidedly Anti-American sentiment growing in Europe and Canada even to the extent of consumers not buying American goods and its all because of Trump and his policy’s.

 

If ever all these countries being threatened by Trump got together they could really screw him the downside is that they would also be hurting themselves though maybe not as much and they just might think it is worth it.

 

Make no mistake its Russia who the aggressor  in Europe and Trump the appeaser who has and is selling out Americas friends and allies.

The anti-American sentiment of the left has been around a lot longer than Trump has been in politics. 

 

I support Ukraine, and I would love to see them march on Moscow, kill Putin and demand a surrender. 

 

But again, Zelensky had the full support of the US, and the support of most of Europe, and is at an effective stalemate after a million dead and wounded and after a quarter of Ukraine's population have fled the country. 

 

What is different now? 

What is the way forward? 
 

 

 

 

[MikeandDow]

3 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

On the positive side Europe is waking up to the fact it must be responsible for its own defence the long-held assumption that NATO was strong enough to deter any aggressor has been dispelled by what is perceived as the betrayal by its most powerful member.

 

There was a very good reason countries wanted to join NATO which is purely a defensive organisation and that was the threat of Russian aggression it wasn’t that NATO is pursuing a policy of aggressively expanding eastward that is just Russian propaganda, it’s that those countries were genuinely fearful of Russia and with good reason.

 

When it gets its act together and it must Europe and the EU will prove to be a strong enough force on its own with its own version of NATO and it will not be relying on America or American weapons in fact, I can see NATO being disbanded at some time in the not too far future. One loser will be the American defence and aircraft industries who would not only lose European sales but possibly others as well.

 

There appears to be a decidedly Anti-American sentiment growing in Europe and Canada even to the extent of consumers not buying American goods and its all because of Trump and his policy’s.

 

If ever all these countries being threatened by Trump got together they could really screw him the downside is that they would also be hurting themselves though maybe not as much and they just might think it is worth it.

 

Make no mistake its Russia who the aggressor  in Europe and Trump the appeaser who has and is selling out Americas friends and allies.

Well said !  the us is heading to be isolated with growing unemployment and spriring inflation with trump at the head

[transam]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

The anti-American sentiment of the left has been around a lot longer than Trump has been in politics. 

 

I support Ukraine, and I would love to see them march on Moscow, kill Putin and demand a surrender. 

 

But again, Zelensky had the full support of the US, and the support of most of Europe, and is at an effective stalemate after a million dead and wounded and after a quarter of Ukraine's population have fled the country. 

 

What is different now? 

What is the way forward? 
 

 

 

 

Not again..........

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Not again..........

Yeah, still waiting for an answer................

[rough diamond]

18 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Is that not about 500-600km? I think the Storm Shadow range is under 300km

Yes the declared range of Storm shadow is 550km whilst the distance is 630km.

Obviously if aircraft enter Russian airspace then yes it can reach Moscow.  Once launched it is fire and forger as it is preprogramed B4 launch. I cannot remember if the Ukrainians have been given "permission" to launch it from inside Russia.

 

Little is known about the Ukrainian Palianytsia cruise missile systems but it has a declared range of "600-700km".  Guidance system is unknown AFAIK although some reports state it uses Galileo which is a global navigation satellite system (GNSS) created by the European Union.

[MikeandDow]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The anti-American sentiment of the left has been around a lot longer than Trump has been in politics. 

 

I support Ukraine, and I would love to see them march on Moscow, kill Putin and demand a surrender. 

 

But again, Zelensky had the full support of the US, and the support of most of Europe, and is at an effective stalemate after a million dead and wounded and after a quarter of Ukraine's population have fled the country. 

 

What is different now? 

What is the way forward? 
 

 

 

 

 As i see it Ukraine DID not have the full suport of the US nor Europe  being told oh you cannot have this you cannot have that , oh dont go into russia,   that is Not full support. Ukraine had the 3rd lagest nucular weapons stockpile after the break up of russia 3 countrys could not stand for that so they made a promise to Ukraine if you get rid of the nukes we wil defend you no matter what!!  what happend ?? crimea, what did the other 2 countries do NOTHING !! and now shamed into partly helping,   the agreement is called the budapest memorandum of 1994

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

 As i see it Ukraine DID not have the full suport of the US nor Europe  being told oh you cannot have this you cannot have that , oh dont go into russia,   that is Not full support. Ukraine had the 3rd lagest nucular weapons stockpile after the break up of russia 3 countrys could not stand for that so they made a promise to Ukraine if you get rid of the nukes we wil defend you no matter what!!  what happend ?? crimea, what did the other 2 countries do NOTHING !! and now shamed into partly helping,   the agreement is called the budapest memorandum of 1994

The only reason Clintion signed the Budapest Memorandum is because he thought President Kravchuk said bootie-fest. 

[The Old Bull]

It's not a pissing contest there are people dying, time to end this.

[johng]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Why do "kids" join the military and always have...? 🤔

 

Because they are young and naive,  because they have little other choices,

because they are conscripted,because it runs in the family ?

[Yellowtail]

Just now, johng said:

 

Because they are young and naive,  because they have little other choices,

because they are conscripted,because it runs in the family ?

But generally, not in the leftist families...

[Bannoi]

1 hour ago, The Old Bull said:

It's not a pissing contest there are people dying, time to end this.

I couldn't agree more and the sooner the better unfortunately there is only one man that can stop it and thats not Trump  or Zelensky its Putin.

 

Ukraine should not be forced to surrender unless they want to I'm sure they would love it to end today but past experience has shown them any agreement ceasefire or peace deal made with Russia without strong security guarantees are useless.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

I couldn't agree more and the sooner the better unfortunately there is only one man that can stop it and thats not Trump its Putin.

 

Ukraine should not be forced to surrender unless they want to I'm sure they would love it to end today but past experience has shown them any agreement ceasefire or peace deal made with Russia without strong security guarantees are useless.

Who is forcing Ukraine to do anything they don't want to do? 

[MikeandDow]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Who is forcing Ukraine to do anything they don't want to do? 

Not according to Trump!!  dont need security guarantees,

[Yellowtail]

Just now, MikeandDow said:

Not according to Trump!!  dont need security guarantees,

Did you no understand the question? The question was:

 

Who is forcing Ukraine to do anything they don't want to do? 

 

Cute cat, what's its name? 

[johng]

18 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

Ukraine should not be forced to surrender unless they want to

 

They will have to "surrender"  there is no choice for them  they are  out of armaments and boots on the ground.

If "surrender" is  too harsh then call it a peace negotiation.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, johng said:

 

They will have to "surrender"  there is no choice for them  they are  out of armaments and boots on the ground.

If "surrender" is  too harsh then call it a peace negotiation.

It's a shame Ukraine did not negotiate a peace in 2022 when they were holding a much stronger hand. 

[johng]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

It's a shame Ukraine did not negotiate a peace in 2022

 

Yes  this is where "Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson" and Co

hold some culpability.