US Halts Military Aid to Ukraine Amid Push for Peace Talks

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

 

You've gone back into ranting mode again. Trump haters etc The hate comes from you. That's why you are ranting and becoming emotional.

For me, it's not personal. For you, you it seems as if you are defending your boyfriend.

We are simply discussing our perceptions of the world. If you are actually hating someone, that's a problem isn't it?

I replied to your questions. No point in ranting at me further. It's my opinion. There's no being perfectly right. We might be right on some things and wrong on others, simply because we don't see the big picture. But we have the luxury of being able to discuss them to the best of our ability without being the ones to make decisions that affect so many lives.

That would be far more interesting than the awful abuse that takes place here. Such an unpleasant environment 😊 Just throwing 💩 at each other all day. The real planet of the apes.

That's what I thought. Go with God brother. 

[rough diamond]

20 minutes ago, transam said:

Stupid question, and the rest of that diatribe is based on schoolboy wording.......🙄

Do you mean primary school wording or kindergarten?

[James105]

46 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

 

In a world where resources matter, it's not just about 'some lines'.

 

So if Russia decided to take your country over, you would just smile meekly and carry on as normal?

It must be quite comfortable in that armchair of yours.

 

If they marched on Kiev and succeeded, where do you think those lines would have been drawn?

 

 

Of course, the whole thing was about money laundering. Now why didn't I think of that?

Can you explain it to me?

 

 

My country is part of NATO so there is no possibility of that happening.  So whenever a bigger country invades a smaller country its the job of the lucky west to keep funding the smaller country to ensure they last as long as possible and their "lucky" frontline soldiers who are the recipients of the weapons from this funding get to die for as long as possible?  For what?  Until when?  They run out of soldiers?  Then what?  Send western soldiers to do the same?  

 

As I understood Russia want the ethnically Russian parts of Ukraine in the east.  Is their stated goal Kiev and full takeover of Ukraine, regime change and onwards to the west, perhaps even the US of A?  It's entirely possible I missed that part if so, but I presume this is the imagined Putin goal of the armchair warmongers who wish to see this war continue.   

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

My country is part of NATO so there is no possibility of that happening.  So whenever a bigger country invades a smaller country its the job of the lucky west to keep funding the smaller country to ensure they last as long as possible and their "lucky" frontline soldiers who are the recipients of the weapons from this funding get to die for as long as possible?  For what?  Until when?  They run out of soldiers?  Then what?  Send western soldiers to do the same?  

 

As I understood Russia want the ethnically Russian parts of Ukraine in the east.  Is their stated goal Kiev and full takeover of Ukraine, regime change and onwards to the west, perhaps even the US of A?  It's entirely possible I missed that part if so, but I presume this is the imagined Putin goal of the armchair warmongers who wish to see this war continue.   

The eastern parts of Ukraine are not ethnically Russian. That is a Russian lie.

 

During the Holodomor, Stalin killed off about 6 million Ukrainians by famine in the region, which coincidentally is chernozem, the richest agricultural soil on the planet. He then migrated Russians there.

 

Ukraine is fighting a war with one hand tied behind its back. Give it complete air cover, and the ability to use interdicted missiles to strike Moscow, and the Russian army would probably crumble without any NATO boots on the ground. Kyiv gets hit every day with similar missiles.

 

Of course, Trump is busy tying Zelensky's second arm behind his back. The country most vocal about freedom allying itself with a dictator.

 

I would love to know what Putin has on Trump, it must be quite damning.

 

 

[simple1]

3 hours ago, James105 said:

 

Are countries that had a coup as recently as 2014 to overthrow a president considered "Democratic" now?  Since 2014 -2022 there has been a civil war on the eastern part of Ukraine resulting in 14,000 deaths before Russia got involved.   Did anybody care then?  Nope.  Before Russia got involved people were being killed.  After Russia got involved people were being killed.   The only involvement the west should have had is to sit down at a table with both sides, maybe bang some heads together and settle it with some kind of monitored democratic vote on this by the people who live in the contested areas.   

 

There was a prior treaty of friendship signed in1997 between Russia and Ukraine which was broken by the Russian insurgency war commencing 2014. Russia was heavily involved with the killings in Donbas region and of course annexing Crimea. In other words Russia has been busy upsetting the apple cart in Ukraine for a number of years. As I understand Russia had no true intent to "make peace', but to force compliance to their terms for a considerable period of time prior to the outbreak of open warfare. You may recall the West has thought Russia would conquer Ukraine with the capture of Kyiv within a week, but Russia totally screwed up.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian–Ukrainian_Friendship_Treaty#:~:text=The Treaty on Friendship%2C Cooperation,existing borders%2C and respect for

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

The eastern parts of Ukraine are not ethnically Russian. That is a Russian lie.

 

During the Holodomor, Stalin killed off about 6 million Ukrainians by famine in the region, which coincidentally is chernozem, the richest agricultural soil on the planet. He then migrated Russians there.

 

Ukraine is fighting a war with one hand tied behind its back. Give it complete air cover, and the ability to use interdicted missiles to strike Moscow, and the Russian army would probably crumble without any NATO boots on the ground. Kyiv gets hit every day with similar missiles.

 

Of course, Trump is busy tying Zelensky's second arm behind his back. The country most vocal about freedom allying itself with a dictator.

 

I would love to know what Putin has on Trump, it must be quite damning.

 

 

Every intelligence/law enforcement agency and media outlet in the US has been investigating Trump for nine years. I would rather know what the anti-Trumpers have on Zelensky. 

[rattlesnake]

On 3/4/2025 at 7:12 AM, Airalee said:

Before this war, I’d bet that the opinion of Ukraine (amongst posters here) was that it is just some corrupt backwater with mail order brides.

 

Probably not much different than Russia….only poorer.

 

And now we care soooo much about them that random strangers will argue back and forth online……for years.

 

The power of propaganda.

 

[MicroB]

On 3/6/2025 at 10:42 AM, James105 said:

As I understood Russia want the ethnically Russian parts of Ukraine in the east.  Is their stated goal Kiev and full takeover of Ukraine, regime change and onwards to the west, perhaps even the US of A?  It's entirely possible I missed that part if so, but I presume this is the imagined Putin goal of the armchair warmongers who wish to see this war continue.   

 

Russia doesn't regard Ukraine as a country. Its not about seizing land. Its about a nonsense idea; Novorossiya. Its not even about recreating the Soviet Union, but emulating Tsar Nicholas I. Putin wants Ukraine to be eliminated as a state, and expects whats left to to become Hungarian (mostly) and Polish. He wants bits of Poland. Its all nonsense, because Kalingrad wasn't Russian, but German, and he overlooks that. Europe has had basically 80 years of settled borders, but Russia wants to turn the clock back 175 years. Its in no ones interest for Europe to revert to that time.

 

There is no such thing as Ethnic Russians. Russians and Ukrainians are the same; one group wants to speak Ukrainian. Russians regard Ukrainians as "Little Slavs". Americans know full well about the power of language in forging national identity. In the young United States, it was Samuel Webster who can claim part of then credit for creating the American character. He was well known for his dictionary, which standardised American English at a time when English used customary spelling. Johnson on the other side of the Atlantic was doing the same with British English. But Webster went further, in introducing a standardised school education that wasn't just there to educate, but also to re-educate. To get all these English, Scottish, Irish, Italian, French, German, Swedish kids to stop thinking of the lands of their parents, but only the lands of America. The relationship between Russia and Ukraine might be analogous to that between England and Ireland. 7 out of 10 English have some Irish heritage, so naturally, some people think "we're all the same", and might even delegitimise the idea of an Irish State (these are the people calling for things like a Council of the British Isles, to bring Ireland into the Commonwealth). Many Irish, understandably, take affront at this. Most English people are fairly ignorant of Ireland, and sometimes can't understand why some Londoners, Scouse support Ireland in the football.

 

The Russian Federation is built upon a lie. Its all but whats left of the Russian Empire, the final Empire that needs to go as a result of World War One. Its consists of Russian people ruling vassel minorities. You will never see a Chechen as Russian President for instance. Russia hasn't developed like Western societies; Tsar Nicholas II still ran a feudal state which went to communism, without any development of ideas of individual rights and liberties. In the West, such things didn't come easily; we had to fight for them, starting with Magna Carta. The American history is part of that history of people winning freedom. And along the way, there were ugly things as the system pushed back.

 

Putin knows none of that; he grew up in post war St Petersburg, hanging out with the street gangs, seething at the West. Ultimately, he wants to see an end to the West; not to take over us, but destroy our societies, as some sort of revenge for the fall of the USSR. He;s an adherant of Alexander Dugin, who during Soviet times was a dissident. Dugin believes in  the Eurasian idea; that for too long the world has been ruled by the "Atlanticists"; those trading nations with access to the seas, which includes the United Kingdom, United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Dugin believes a lot of the troubles of the world would go if the Anglo-Saxons were liquidated. Its complete nonsense of course, and just yet another global conspiracy fruitcake idea. If it wasn't the Anglo-Saxons, it would be the Jews. These days, Putin uses the term "Collective West"; he believes the European peoples can be disengaged from the Anglo Saxons, but for now, we are all the enemy. With such ideas, there can be no rapprochement, no peace, just new continuous tension. I don't think such ideas will survive the man; no one is going to be erecting statues to Putin the Great. Obviously there is much conjecture about his health, likely inaccurate. But even so, he's Russian, and based on just demographics, he's on borrowed time.

 

Its important for Russia's venture with Ukraine to fail, to ensure all of this nonsense dies with Putin. That includes not recognising the legalities of Russia's claims to the Donbass oblasts, because that's not how we now settle territorial disputes. In an ideal situation, the territories would be placed under a UN-like mandate, funded by Russia and Ukraine and allowed  the Right of Self Determination under a genuinely free and open process, not the fakery propagated by Russia's referenda.

 

And as a last act of WW1, the Russian Federation needs to go, allowing a modern Russian Republic to emerge, much smaller, but I think with a more view of itself among nations and its neighbours. The failure of Putin's escapade will hasten that. Its minorities of the Federation who have disproportionally suffered in the war, due to how recruitment has been carried out. Who knows, with a reduced Slavic Russia, maybe there is scope for a Slavic Union similar to the Nordic Council. The Scandanavians seem fairly comfortable with each other, with relationships that the nations of the British Isles can only hope to emulate.

[MicroB]

On 3/6/2025 at 11:03 AM, Lacessit said:

I would love to know what Putin has on Trump, it must be quite damning.

 

The US President has weathered sexual scandal without much issue; though they are capable of making him think they have something on him.

 

More likely, if there is anything, its financial leverage. He owes them money, and they can call in their markers, The American President's second son, Eric, boasted how much money they raised from Russian investors. In the 1980s, property developers had to essentially pay off the mafia to get anywhere, and the American President has talked about some of the deals he had to do to get things done. Reportedly, of the of the reasons his dad bailed out his casinos was he was worried his son would end up in hock to the mob.

 

Maybe not even that, but knowledge of business dealings might be enough.

 

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a33350476/fear-city-new-york-mafia-donald-trump-tower-mob-ties-explained/

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/16/trump-mafia-connections-blocked-bid-to-open-sydney-casino-30-years-ago.html

https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-fines-trump-taj-mahal-casino-resort-10-million-significant-and-long

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/31/politics/trump-mob-mafia/index.html

 

 

 

Of course there may be nothing, and he's just an impressionable old fool shouting at the TV every night. Plenty of those about.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, MicroB said:

 

Russia doesn't regard Ukraine as a country. Its not about seizing land. Its about a nonsense idea; Novorossiya. Its not even about recreating the Soviet Union, but emulating Tsar Nicholas I. Putin wants Ukraine to be eliminated as a state, and expects whats left to to become Hungarian (mostly) and Polish. He wants bits of Poland. Its all nonsense, because Kalingrad wasn't Russian, but German, and he overlooks that. Europe has had basically 80 years of settled borders, but Russia wants to turn the clock back 175 years. Its in no ones interest for Europe to revert to that time.

 

There is no such thing as Ethnic Russians. Russians and Ukrainians are the same; one group wants to speak Ukrainian. Russians regard Ukrainians as "Little Slavs". Americans know full well about the power of language in forging national identity. In the young United States, it was Samuel Webster who can claim part of then credit for creating the American character. He was well known for his dictionary, which standardised American English at a time when English used customary spelling. Johnson on the other side of the Atlantic was doing the same with British English. But Webster went further, in introducing a standardised school education that wasn't just there to educate, but also to re-educate. To get all these English, Scottish, Irish, Italian, French, German, Swedish kids to stop thinking of the lands of their parents, but only the lands of America. The relationship between Russia and Ukraine might be analogous to that between England and Ireland. 7 out of 10 English have some Irish heritage, so naturally, some people think "we're all the same", and might even delegitimise the idea of an Irish State (these are the people calling for things like a Council of the British Isles, to bring Ireland into the Commonwealth). Many Irish, understandably, take affront at this. Most English people are fairly ignorant of Ireland, and sometimes can't understand why some Londoners, Scouse support Ireland in the football.

 

The Russian Federation is built upon a lie. Its all but whats left of the Russian Empire, the final Empire that needs to go as a result of World War One. Its consists of Russian people ruling vassel minorities. You will never see a Chechen as Russian President for instance. Russia hasn't developed like Western societies; Tsar Nicholas II still ran a feudal state which went to communism, without any development of ideas of individual rights and liberties. In the West, such things didn't come easily; we had to fight for them, starting with Magna Carta. The American history is part of that history of people winning freedom. And along the way, there were ugly things as the system pushed back.

 

Putin knows none of that; he grew up in post war St Petersburg, hanging out with the street gangs, seething at the West. Ultimately, he wants to see an end to the West; not to take over us, but destroy our societies, as some sort of revenge for the fall of the USSR. He;s an adherant of Alexander Dugin, who during Soviet times was a dissident. Dugin believes in  the Eurasian idea; that for too long the world has been ruled by the "Atlanticists"; those trading nations with access to the seas, which includes the United Kingdom, United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Dugin believes a lot of the troubles of the world would go if the Anglo-Saxons were liquidated. Its complete nonsense of course, and just yet another global conspiracy fruitcake idea. If it wasn't the Anglo-Saxons, it would be the Jews. These days, Putin uses the term "Collective West"; he believes the European peoples can be disengaged from the Anglo Saxons, but for now, we are all the enemy. With such ideas, there can be no rapprochement, no peace, just new continuous tension. I don't think such ideas will survive the man; no one is going to be erecting statues to Putin the Great. Obviously there is much conjecture about his health, likely inaccurate. But even so, he's Russian, and based on just demographics, he's on borrowed time.

 

Its important for Russia's venture with Ukraine to fail, to ensure all of this nonsense dies with Putin. That includes not recognising the legalities of Russia's claims to the Donbass oblasts, because that's not how we now settle territorial disputes. In an ideal situation, the territories would be placed under a UN-like mandate, funded by Russia and Ukraine and allowed  the Right of Self Determination under a genuinely free and open process, not the fakery propagated by Russia's referenda.

 

And as a last act of WW1, the Russian Federation needs to go, allowing a modern Russian Republic to emerge, much smaller, but I think with a more view of itself among nations and its neighbours. The failure of Putin's escapade will hasten that. Its minorities of the Federation who have disproportionally suffered in the war, due to how recruitment has been carried out. Who knows, with a reduced Slavic Russia, maybe there is scope for a Slavic Union similar to the Nordic Council. The Scandanavians seem fairly comfortable with each other, with relationships that the nations of the British Isles can only hope to emulate.

A very interesting read, thank you.

 

Have you read "Journey into Russia" by Sir Laurens van der Post? He explains Russia on a tribal basis.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/6/2025 at 3:25 PM, simple1 said:

 

Only you know where for get $967 billion US contribution to NATO which is an outrageous claim as:

 

Nato's annual budget and programmes come to about €3.8bn (£3.2bn or $4.1bn) overall, and there's an agreed cost-sharing formula to pay for the running of things such as:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-44717074

 

The Marshall Plan was repaid over and over again by the proceeds of Peace i.e. trade which trump is ignorantly trying to interfere. Perhaps as an American you may wish to give some thought to the unnecessary death and destruction created by US forces since the Korean War and the many mistakes made by associated policy decisions, including by trump.

As long as you accept it's been by all presidents since WW2 and not just Trump.