Nobody will trust a US treaty again,’ and Japan’s yen is now the new safe haven currency

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Yes, there are obvious problems the steel tariffs will cause. Cars will get more expensive. But this will be the case across the board. Part of the reason why the steel tariffs are necessary is because China has been dumping cheap steel everywhere around the gblobe, depressing prices. However, the US needs high prices for steel.

 

And don't forget these tariffs will be bad for the US, but they will be mortal for the 25000 Canadian steel workers. They will kill Canadian steel right off. So Trump will eliminate a competitor, Canadian steel producers. 

 

However, it may be that the real reason that Trump wants strong US steel and aluminium producers, is that he wants to prepare the US for military purposes.

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Yes, there are obvious problems the steel tariffs will cause. Cars will get more expensive. But this will be the case across the board. Part of the reason why the steel tariffs are necessary is because China has been dumping cheap steel everywhere around the gblobe, depressing prices. However, the US needs high prices for steel.

 

And don't forget these tariffs will be bad for the US, but they will be mortal for the 25000 Canadian steel workers. They will kill Canadian steel right off. So Trump will eliminate a competitor, Canadian steel producers. 

 

However, it may be that the real reason that Trump wants strong US steel and aluminium producers, is that he wants to prepare the US for military purposes.

 

 

It's funny. Most Trumpers were complaining about how the democrats and neocons got the US involved in foreign wars. And they castigated them over and over again. Now you're claiming that it was all a ruse and Trump is preparing for war?  And you think the outcome of war is going to boost the American economy? Very archaic and very Third Reich thinking. War may be useful for an economy sunk deep in a depression, but even then the economic equivalent can be done with far better results.

As for your prediction that tariff "will kill Canadian still right off"... Here's a graph for the last time 25% tariffs were imposed.

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/steel-production

Is that your idea of the death of an industry? It is to laugh.

[0ffshore360]

On 3/10/2025 at 12:26 PM, Lacessit said:

Japan holds more US debt than China, in terms of US Treasury bonds.

And both have been selling off in large amounts

[placeholder]

59 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

That was the justification used for the steel tariffs the first time around, national security. And of course if you want a strong military you do need strong steel producers.

 

Trump can't afford US steel producers to fail because that would mean America's military nimbus would vanish.

It was a laughable justification back then. Canada, a nation that the US shares, or maybe shared, the longest unprotected border in world was a security threat. Wasn't there a South Park episode where Canada and the US went to war? Do you understand why that was funny?

[Cameroni]

50 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Now you're claiming that it was all a ruse and Trump is preparing for war?  And you think the outcome of war is going to boost the American economy? Very archaic and very Third Reich thinking. War may be useful for an economy sunk deep in a depression, but even then the economic equivalent can be done with far better results.

 

Not preparing for a specific war, but he is considering the necessity to retain strong steel producers to maintain America's ability to build a strong a military. The US military is a crucial tool of US policy. Speak softly but carry a big stick as Teddy said.

 

If US steel would wilt away, how could the US maintain its military glory? It couldn''t.

[Cameroni]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It was a laughable justification back then. Canada, a nation that the US shares, or maybe shared, the longest unprotected border in world was a security threat. Wasn't there a South Park episode where Canada and the US went to war? Do you understand why that was funny?

 

No, the threat was not a direct Canadian invasion obviously, the threat was that Canadian steel caused American steel producers to fail, which would indeed have a direct impact on America's military.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

No, the threat was not a direct Canadian invasion obviously, the threat was that Canadian steel caused American steel producers to fail, which would indeed have a direct impact on America's military.

The US steel industry is huge compared to the Canadian steel industry. But for the sake of argument, let's say that the Canadian steel industry totally supplanted the US steel industry. How would that be deleterious to the U.S. military?

[Cameroni]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

As for your prediction that tariff "will kill Canadian still right off"... Here's a graph for the last time 25% tariffs were imposed.

 

The situation is different now. Canadian investment is in a substantially worse shape now than it was then after being hit by a global pandemic, followed by an underperforming economy over the last two years. 

 

The U.S. accounts for over 90% of Canadian steel and aluminum exports. The renewal of the tariffs from 2018/19 would apply to roughly $24 billion of Canadian exports.

 

You think Canada will just shrug that off?

[Cameroni]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The US steel industry is huge compared to the Canadian steel industry. But for the sake of argument, let's say that the Canadian steel industry totally supplanted the US steel industry. How would that be deleterious to the U.S. military?

 

In a time of war you need control over your steel producers. It's no good to rely on Canadians, who have now shown they think nothing of targeting the electricity supply of American cities. 

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

The situation is different now. Canadian investment is in a substantially worse shape now than it was then after being hit by a global pandemic, followed by an underperforming economy over the last two years. 

 

The U.S. accounts for over 90% of Canadian steel and aluminum exports. The renewal of the tariffs from 2018/19 would apply to roughly $24 billion of Canadian exports.

 

You think Canada will just shrug that off?

What does any of that have to do with how a 25% tariff will hurt the Canadian steel industry? In fact, and thanks for bringing up the issue of the worsening Canadian economy, the fact that the US dollar has increased in value against the Canadian most likely means that a 25% tariff will be less effective than it was formerly.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

In a time of war you need control over your steel producers. It's no good to rely on Canadians, who have now shown they think nothing of targeting the electricity supply of American cities. 

Really? The percentage of US produced steel used by the Department of Defense is at most 3%,

 

The mythical national security argument for protecting the steel industry

https://breakingdefense.com/2024/03/the-mythical-national-security-argument-for-protecting-the-steel-industry/

 

The author who is a former undersecretary of defense who was tasked with getting the specialty steel needed by the Pentagoon to protect US soldiers against IEDs.

 

 

 

[Cameroni]

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? The percentage of US produced steel used by the Department of Defense is at most 3%,

 

The mythical national security argument for protecting the steel industry

https://breakingdefense.com/2024/03/the-mythical-national-security-argument-for-protecting-the-steel-industry/

 

The author who is a former undersecretary of defense who was tasked with getting the specialty steel needed by the Pentagoon to protect US soldiers against IEDs.

 

 

 

"One US company did do something, and that was Oregon Steel. They had a process that could produce the quality of steel that the MRAPs needed but it would require the importation of steel ingot from Mexico to fuel their mills. This would require a waiver from Buy America restrictions that mandated that all steel DoD uses be not only produced, but smelted in the US. US steel industry lobbyists vehemently opposed any such waiver. DoD eventually granted the waiver, thereby increasing MRAP-relevant steel production by 40 percent. The brutalist of ironies: The company was purchased by Russians in 2007. The irony that the Russians stepped up to protect our troops while US industry did not was probably not lost on the Kremlin."

 

Funny article but it really is concerned with a particular type of steel. If the need ever arose in a brutal war to request more than 3% the US steel producers have to have the capability to deliver the amount and quality required. If the DoD just relies on foreign countries that is obviously not a desirable situation.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

"One US company did do something, and that was Oregon Steel. They had a process that could produce the quality of steel that the MRAPs needed but it would require the importation of steel ingot from Mexico to fuel their mills. This would require a waiver from Buy America restrictions that mandated that all steel DoD uses be not only produced, but smelted in the US. US steel industry lobbyists vehemently opposed any such waiver. DoD eventually granted the waiver, thereby increasing MRAP-relevant steel production by 40 percent. The brutalist of ironies: The company was purchased by Russians in 2007. The irony that the Russians stepped up to protect our troops while US industry did not was probably not lost on the Kremlin."

 

Funny article but it really is concerned with a particular type of steel. If the need ever arose in a brutal war to request more than 3% the US steel producers have to have the capability to deliver the amount and quality required. If the DoD just relies on foreign countries that is obviously not a desirable situation.

First off, as the author noted, that 3% is probably a very high estimate. It's more like 1%. And no, that percentage is not just for specialty steels:

'Historically, the Pentagon has bought significantly less than 1 percent of the US steel industry’s output, although the industry believes that number is closer to 3 percent."

[Lacessit]

47 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Not preparing for a specific war, but he is considering the necessity to retain strong steel producers to maintain America's ability to build a strong a military. The US military is a crucial tool of US policy. Speak softly but carry a big stick as Teddy said.

 

If US steel would wilt away, how could the US maintain its military glory? It couldn''t.

At best, the US military uses less than 5% of America's current steel production.

 

It's not bread and butter steel going into cars, washing machines and roofing either. It's specialty steels for ships, submarines and tanks.

 

70% of American steel is produced by electric arc furnaces, which mainly use scrap steel as a feedstock.

 

As far as cars and washing machines go, the Japanese and Koreans beat US producers into a cocked hat decades ago, better quality and lower prices. Now it's the Chinese.

 

Attempts to revive the US steel industry with tariffs is like feeding a diabetic sugar. It won't end well.

 

[Cameroni]

48 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

At best, the US military uses less than 5% of America's current steel production.

That's because the DoD buys steel from other countries, because it's cheaper. That's precisely what Trump wants to end.

[nauseus]

pages and pages of poop.

[Woke to Sounds]

On 3/11/2025 at 6:38 AM, uncletiger said:

 

Every currency is backed by nothing other than a belief that it is worth something. That's hardly an argument. At least Bitcoin is absolutely limited in supply and not controlled by a government. That's what makes it valuable.

If we talk solely about Investing though...  Bitcoin is not the same as investing in tangible companies that actually make stuff or supply services, and pay dividends for owning shares of said companies.  That's the difference.

 

I know to where my money would rather flow.

 

People will always need stuff or services and there will always be companies to supply those things.

[placeholder]

On 3/11/2025 at 7:38 PM, uncletiger said:

 

Every currency is backed by nothing other than a belief that it is worth something. That's hardly an argument. At least Bitcoin is absolutely limited in supply and not controlled by a government. That's what makes it valuable.

Every real currency  is backed by a government. A government with a long track record. Some of those track records are excellent,, some are not. That record is what belief is based on. Crypto is backed by anonymous parties. It barely functions as a currency. Rather, it's now regarded as an asset.It's been compared to gold. But while the value of gold has jumped in the current situation, crypto has mostly fallen. That's because gold at least has a long record, probably prehistoric, as a somewhat reliable store of value. Crypto not so much. When the next economic crisis comes, I wouldn't bet on crypto.

[FritsSikkink]

On 3/10/2025 at 1:45 PM, Patong2021 said:

 

What spigots? US has not been funding the EU.

The reality is that Russia did not pose a threat to many EU members, or Canada. The constant intrusions into Canada by Russian nuclear armed aircraft was a threat to US security not Canada. The USA needs the EU and others to protect its shipping routes. The USA economy is trade dependent and if it cannot import the materials it needs, its economy flounders. Time to start  considering the ramifications if the rest of the world stops purchasing US products and/or stops selling to the USA at preferred prices. All that is needed to  cause the USA economy to tailspin is a reduction in its exports of 10%. 5% will result in layoffs and loss of tax revenues.

 

 

So does the USA. Only the USA's Trump  is threatening to default on its  debt.

 US consumer market is dependent on China. If China stops selling to the USA, Walmart, Costco and others will  be empty of products. The Chinese are a lot stronger and more unified that the USA. They can go without fancy things. Deny an American his pork rinds and the trailer parks will erupt in riots.

 

How will Europe Replace Russian gas - They have done so with  Gulf Arab imports. Canada is about to change its energy export policy and we may see one of the world's largest oil and gas reserves  made available.

Should Europe Even the Tariff Playing Field- How about the US removing its trade barriers? The US has some of the toughest.

Is a European Army Practical Yes.It can be structured as per the existing NATO protocols. At the very least Germany can train with France and the UK. 

What Social Benefits need to be Cut to Pay for European Defense -None

In Light of the Cowardly Nature of Western European Youth, Should the Eastern European form a Separate Military Bloc- They are already integrated  with the western  EU. There is no Eastern EU now other than Romania and Bulgaria, and they are  backward states to begin with.

Whats Does Germanys Reversal of Class Interests in the Recent Election say about the future of Leftist parties in Europe- The social progressive movement remains strong and will not disappear.

How Does the Green Agenda affect European Power generation and Industrial Expansion - Have you read the Green proposals? Some are  quite intelligent and forward  thinking. They focus on resilience, efficiency and sustainability.

 

If the USA doesn't participate and respect others, it will not have a seat at the table and will have little influence.

 

 

This is what the G7 thinks of the USA: Marco Rubio humiliated by tiny red carpet at G7 arrival amid trade tensions

[Patong2021]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

This is what the G7 thinks of the USA: Marco Rubio humiliated by tiny red carpet at G7 arrival amid trade tensions

 

Thanks for that. I had not seen. That's going to get a few chuckles from the foreign ministers.

Poor Marco. I wonder if he regrets accepting the job.