Vapers Beware

[dinsdale]

A friend of a friend (Thai) got busted at 4:00 am outside of where he works having a puff. Fine Bt10,000 or one year in jail. This is insanity on steroids. The entire vape scene has been shut down. Lots of very unhappy people. Is this shutdown, no longer a crackdown, about protecting the tobacco monopoly and not about health?

[connda]

This is 100% about protecting the tobacco monopoly. If they gave a sh*t about nicotine addiction they'd ban vaping and all tobacco products.  But they don't.  So it's bovine excrement (BS) that is aimed to throw people into jail to protect the monopolies.

[NorthernRyland]

17 minutes ago, connda said:

This is 100% about protecting the tobacco monopoly. If they gave a sh*t about nicotine addiction they'd ban vaping and all tobacco products.  But they don't.  So it's bovine excrement (BS) that is aimed to throw people into jail to protect the monopolies.

in Thailand there's nearly a 100% tax on domestic tobacco (not sure about imported but it's high too) so the tobacco lobby is losing sales and the government is loosing tax revenue. 

[ChipButty]

I see the question being asked many times in the Facebook tourist groups, are they illegal.....? 

10,000 wasn't too bad, I've heard here in Phuket 12 to 14,000 baht,

[dinsdale]

24 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

I see the question being asked many times in the Facebook tourist groups, are they illegal.....? 

10,000 wasn't too bad, I've heard here in Phuket 12 to 14,000 baht,

or one year in jail. One year in jail for vaping. Insane. As for 12-14k my thought on this is that 10k is the official fine an the extra 2-4k being extorted in Phuket is going into pockets. Having said this this particular income stream must be running out as vapes are now impossible to get. 

[Yagoda]

There is evidence that Vaping can be more harmful than tobacco, so it makes sense on health grounds.

[dinsdale]

25 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

There is evidence that Vaping can be more harmful than tobacco, so it makes sense on health grounds.

Show me that evidence please.

NHS UK is one of many organisations that have a different view to yours.

Is vaping harmful?

Evidence shows that vaping is less harmful than smoking. Vaping exposes users to fewer toxins and at lower levels than smoking cigarettes.

Switching to vaping reduces your exposure to toxins that can cause cancer, lung disease, and diseases of the heart and circulation like heart attack and stroke.

However, vaping is not risk-free. Non-smokers and young people under 18 should not take up vaping.

https://www.nhs.uk/better-health/quit-smoking/ready-to-quit-smoking/vaping-to-quit-smoking/#:~:text=Evidence shows that vaping is,like heart attack and stroke.

And then there's this:

The most relevant question for smokers is whether vaping nicotine is less harmful than smoking the cigarettes it is designed to replace. The evidence suggests it is far less harmful. The National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine report² found substantial evidence that “exposure to potentially toxic substances from e-cigarettes is significantly lower compared with combustible tobacco cigarettes” and “reduced short-term adverse health outcomes in several organ systems.”²

Most of the research on the harms of e-cigarettes is from in vitro and animal studies. How these findings translate to health effects in humans is uncertain, when many human studies show substantial health improvements in smokers who switch to vaping.

https://journal.chestnet.org/article/S0012-3692(20)30754-6/fulltext

[Yagoda]

6 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Show me that evidence please.

NHS UK is one of many organisations that have a different view to yours.

Is vaping harmful?

Evidence shows that vaping is less harmful than smoking. Vaping exposes users to fewer toxins and at lower levels than smoking cigarettes.

Switching to vaping reduces your exposure to toxins that can cause cancer, lung disease, and diseases of the heart and circulation like heart attack and stroke.

However, vaping is not risk-free. Non-smokers and young people under 18 should not take up vaping.

https://www.nhs.uk/better-health/quit-smoking/ready-to-quit-smoking/vaping-to-quit-smoking/#:~:text=Evidence shows that vaping is,like heart attack and stroke.

And then there's this:

The most relevant question for smokers is whether vaping nicotine is less harmful than smoking the cigarettes it is designed to replace. The evidence suggests it is far less harmful. The National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine report² found substantial evidence that “exposure to potentially toxic substances from e-cigarettes is significantly lower compared with combustible tobacco cigarettes” and “reduced short-term adverse health outcomes in several organ systems.”²

Most of the research on the harms of e-cigarettes is from in vitro and animal studies. How these findings translate to health effects in humans is uncertain, when many human studies show substantial health improvements in smokers who switch to vaping.

https://journal.chestnet.org/article/S0012-3692(20)30754-6/fulltext

You must be a vaper.

 

Guess ya got to trust whats in your juice, huh. Made in China?

[dinsdale]

24 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

You must be a vaper.

 

Guess ya got to trust whats in your juice, huh. Made in China?

I was a smoker for decades. Vaping got me off the cigs. My health improved a lot. Your claim was vaping is worse than cigarette smoking. Do you still stand by this? As for the juice there's no evidence to suggest that vape juice is more toxic than cigarette smoke. The fact of the matter it's less toxic as pointed out in my previous post. As for the 14 year old girl that died which was the trigger for this "shutdown" (smokescreen for true reason IMHO) I have my theory on this. She died of a cardiac arrest which was the cause given. Possible cause of this a massive nicotine overdose. Smoking 10 packets cigs in a day would probably be enough to kill an adult male. 

Children should not be vaping but adults should be free to as is the case with cigarettes. There is no hard evidence to say vapes are more deleterious to health than cigarettes indeed it's the opposite so health cannot be a legitimate basis for this "shutdown". 

[Yagoda]

Just now, dinsdale said:

I was a smoker for decades. Vaping got me off the cigs. My health improved a lot. Your claim was vaping is worse than cigarette smoking. Do you still stand by this? As for the juice there's no evidence to suggest that vape juice is more toxic than cigarette smoke. The fact of the matter it's less toxic as pointed out in my previous post. As for the 14 year old girl that died which was the trigger for this "shutdown" (smokescreen for true reason IMHO) I have my theory on this. She died of a cardiac arrest. Possible cause a massive nicotine overdose. Smoking 10 packets cigs in a day would probably be enough to kill an adult male. 

Children should not be vaping but adults should be free to as is the case with cigarettes. There is no hard evidence to say vapes are more deleterious to health than cigarettes indeed it's the opposite so health cannot be a basis for this "shutdown". 

I was a smoker for decades. I didnt claim anything other than the fact that there is evidence that vaping may be more harmful than smoking. If countries can ban additives in food, they can ban juice.

 

Are you denying the potential dangers of vaping?

 

Personally bro, I dont care either way and I vape weed.  If you need your vape so bad and they are strictly banned, go somewhere else. Thats how I deal with the weed issue...

 

BTW, if you need to Vape, go to Nana Plaza and be discreet

[Terek]

15 hours ago, dinsdale said:

A friend of a friend (Thai) got busted at 4:00 am outside of where he works having a puff. Fine Bt10,000 or one year in jail. This is insanity on steroids. The entire vape scene has been shut down. Lots of very unhappy people. Is this shutdown, no longer a crackdown, about protecting the tobacco monopoly and not about health?

It's not possible to fine anyone moreover put in jail for vaping because it's not prohibited by any law.  Just appeal that fine. I am wondering what is written there 😅. Usually corrupt cops extort moneys from gullible tourists this way only.

[dinsdale]

11 minutes ago, Terek said:

It's not possible to fine anyone moreover put in jail for vaping because it's not prohibited by any law.  Just appeal that fine. I am wondering what is written there 😅. Usually corrupt cops extort moneys from gullible tourists this way only.

As I said in the OP it was a Thai person that got done for vaping and not in any tourist area. Far from it in fact. I would like to know where you have gotten your information from that vaping isn't illegal.

[Rimmer]

A quick dive into the internet reveals the following with links:

 

Vaping introduces various harmful substances into the body, leading to several health risks:

Respiratory System:

• Lung Damage: The inhalation of chemicals like diacetyl, found in some e-cigarette flavors, has been linked to severe lung diseases, including bronchiolitis obliterans, commonly known as "popcorn lung."

  hopkinsmedicine.org

   

• Inflammation and Irritation: Vaping can cause inflammation and irritation of the airways, potentially leading to chronic respiratory conditions.

  my.clevelandclinic.org

   

Cardiovascular System:

• Heart Disease: Nicotine exposure from vaping increases heart rate and blood pressure, elevating the risk of heart disease and heart attacks.
  hopkinsmedicine.org

Nervous System:

• Addiction: Nicotine is highly addictive, leading to dependence and potential withdrawal symptoms.

  cdc.gov

   

• Brain Development: Nicotine exposure during adolescence can harm brain development, affecting areas responsible for attention, learning, and impulse control.

  lung.org

   

Oral Health:

• Tooth Decay and Gum Disease: Vaping can lead to dry mouth, increasing the risk of tooth decay and gum disease.

  thesun.ie

   

• 'Vape Tongue': This condition involves a temporary loss of taste due to excessive vaping.

  thesun.ie

   

Chemical Exposure:

• Toxic Substances: E-cigarette vapor contains harmful chemicals such as formaldehyde and acrolein, which can cause lung and heart diseases.

  lung.org

   

• Heavy Metals: Users may inhale metals like nickel, tin, and lead, which are toxic to the body.

  heart.org

   

Cancer Risk:

• Carcinogens: Some e-cigarette liquids contain carcinogenic substances, potentially increasing the risk of cancers, including lung cancer.
  cancer.org

Acute Lung Injury:

• EVALI: The use of e-cigarettes has been associated with E-cigarette or Vaping Product Use-Associated Lung Injury (EVALI), a serious condition causing symptoms like shortness of breath, cough, and chest pain.
  en.wikipedia.org

Vaping can expose users to various harmful substances, leading to significant health risks affecting multiple bodily systems.

 

[dinsdale]

27 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

I was a smoker for decades. I didnt claim anything other than the fact that there is evidence that vaping may be more harmful than smoking. If countries can ban additives in food, they can ban juice.

 

Are you denying the potential dangers of vaping?

 

Personally bro, I dont care either way and I vape weed.  If you need your vape so bad and they are strictly banned, go somewhere else. Thats how I deal with the weed issue...

 

BTW, if you need to Vape, go to Nana Plaza and be discreet

I have previously said and will say again that no smoking is of course ideal but vaping is less harmful than cigs. As for dry herb vapes this isn't a practical alternative as it's not something I could have smoke at work or indeed anywhere in public where I am.

[jvs]

I believe nicotine is not as bad as some people make it out to be,we have receptors in our bodies for nicotine.

Nicotine is present in many things we eat and some doctors claim we actually need it.

Sure i don't know if vaping is more of a health risk compared to smoking but as with everything,too much is never good.

I have someone in my family who vapes,a lot.

There is the problem,a cigarette ends soon,vaping can be done for hours.

While playing pc games and having a vape device it is easy to forget and vape for hours.

This is very dangerous and is killing young people.

 

[bamnutsak]

15 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Fine Bt10,000

 

Taiwanese actress Charlene An paid a "fine" of 27,000 THB in January 2023.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/general/40024459

 

 

Last week, I saw a foreign tourist vaping on the BTS platform at Asoke (inbound) side.

[Terek]

51 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

As I said in the OP it was a Thai person that got done for vaping and not in any tourist area. Far from it in fact. I would like to know where you have gotten your information from that vaping isn't illegal.

Is there some new law about it?

No one ever have been fined for vaping in Thailand. They can try to fine for something else indeed, such as illegal import if they can prove it you did, but then charges must be made by customs not  police. Usually it's just extortion.

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/no-vaping-and-vapes-are-not-illegal-in-thailand-heres-why/

[dinsdale]

1 hour ago, Rimmer said:

A quick dive into the internet reveals the following with links:

 

Vaping introduces various harmful substances into the body, leading to several health risks:

Respiratory System:

• Lung Damage: The inhalation of chemicals like diacetyl, found in some e-cigarette flavors, has been linked to severe lung diseases, including bronchiolitis obliterans, commonly known as "popcorn lung."

  hopkinsmedicine.org

   

• Inflammation and Irritation: Vaping can cause inflammation and irritation of the airways, potentially leading to chronic respiratory conditions.

  my.clevelandclinic.org

   

Cardiovascular System:

• Heart Disease: Nicotine exposure from vaping increases heart rate and blood pressure, elevating the risk of heart disease and heart attacks.
  hopkinsmedicine.org

Nervous System:

• Addiction: Nicotine is highly addictive, leading to dependence and potential withdrawal symptoms.

  cdc.gov

   

• Brain Development: Nicotine exposure during adolescence can harm brain development, affecting areas responsible for attention, learning, and impulse control.

  lung.org

   

Oral Health:

• Tooth Decay and Gum Disease: Vaping can lead to dry mouth, increasing the risk of tooth decay and gum disease.

  thesun.ie

   

• 'Vape Tongue': This condition involves a temporary loss of taste due to excessive vaping.

  thesun.ie

   

Chemical Exposure:

• Toxic Substances: E-cigarette vapor contains harmful chemicals such as formaldehyde and acrolein, which can cause lung and heart diseases.

  lung.org

   

• Heavy Metals: Users may inhale metals like nickel, tin, and lead, which are toxic to the body.

  heart.org

   

Cancer Risk:

• Carcinogens: Some e-cigarette liquids contain carcinogenic substances, potentially increasing the risk of cancers, including lung cancer.
  cancer.org

Acute Lung Injury:

• EVALI: The use of e-cigarettes has been associated with E-cigarette or Vaping Product Use-Associated Lung Injury (EVALI), a serious condition causing symptoms like shortness of breath, cough, and chest pain.
  en.wikipedia.org

Vaping can expose users to various harmful substances, leading to significant health risks affecting multiple bodily systems.

 

Let's address some of the points in no particular order.

Formaldehyde:

"Back in 2014 and 2015, a couple of studies came out claiming that e-cigarettes produce not one, not two, not three, but fifteen (15!) times the amount of formaldehyde that cigarettes do.

Well, not quite. The truth is that a researcher at a press conference about a Japanese study (which found that e-cigarettes product between 13 and 807 times less formaldehyde than cigarettes) reported that one brand of e-cigarette they tested released 10 times as much formaldehyde as cigarettes when overheated.

The second study, in the New England Journal of Medicine, reported again that when e-cigarettes are overheated, they can produce higher formaldehyde levels than traditional tobacco."

"The levels of formaldehyde weren’t measured by people actually vaping—this would contaminate their vapour sample with whatever’s in the vape user’s mouth, and the whole study would be done with.

Instead, the test was undertaken with a vaping machine. And the machine wasn’t set to ‘recreational’ or ‘social’ vaping; it was set to ‘chain vape the living daylights out of this e-liquid’. Which is how they got it to overheat, and how they got it to produce any formaldehyde at all.

Of course, if they had used a human, they probably would never have reached that point, because of the dreaded dry hit. Before they got anywhere close to formaldehyde, the vape user would have started choking on their own lungs."

https://www.vapour.com/latest/vape-isnt-producing-formaldehyde/

Cancer: 

"Smoking causes at least 16 different types of cancer so stopping smoking completely is the best thing you can do for your health. E-cigarettes can help people stop smoking and are an effective stop smoking tool. There’s no safe level of smoking, so it is important to stop tobacco-use completely.

Because vaping is far less harmful than smoking, your health could benefit from switching from smoking to vaping. And you will reduce your risk of getting cancer."

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/smoking-and-cancer/is-vaping-harmful

Lung Damage:

Research generally accepts that while vaping can harm the lungs and other bodily systems, its impact is much less than tobacco smoking.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/vaping-vs-smoking#effects-of-vaping

Heavy Metals:

Dry hits in vaping, where the coil heats without enough e-liquid, can lead to the release of harmful toxins, including heavy metals like chromium, nickel, and copper, which are inhaled into the lungs. 

What is a dry hit?

A dry hit occurs when a vaping device is used without enough e-liquid to properly wick the coil, causing the coil to burn dry. 

Why are dry hits dangerous?

When a coil burns dry, it can release harmful toxins, including heavy metals like chromium, nickel, and copper, which are present in the heating elements and coils of vaporizer pens. 

AI Overview

Oral Health:

While both smoking and vaping negatively impact oral health, smoking is generally considered worse for your teeth and gums due to the presence of tar and other harmful chemicals directly impacting the tissues in the mouth. 

AI Overview

Nervous System:

While both smoking and vaping can negatively impact your nervous system, smoking is generally considered more harmful due to the presence of numerous toxic and carcinogenic substances in tobacco smoke, while vaping, though not risk-free, exposes users to fewer and different chemicals. 

AI Overview

Cardiovascular System.

While both smoking and vaping pose risks to cardiovascular health, studies suggest that vaping may be more harmful to the heart than tobacco cigarettes. 

AI Overview

Inflammation.

Both cigs and vapes contain nicotine which has inflammatory properties. How much harm this will do depends on how much is consumed.  A few cigs a day will be better than heavy vape use and visa versa.

 

Again I have never said that vaping does not pose health risks. I'm simply stating that overall the health risks associated with vaping are  less than those associated with tobacco smoking. If vapes are banned with health being the stated reason then cigarettes should also be banned for the same reason as overall cigarette smoking/tobacco is worse. 

 

[Terek]

29 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

 

Taiwanese actress Charlene An paid a "fine" of 27,000 THB in January 2023.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/general/40024459

 

 

Last week, I saw a foreign tourist vaping on the BTS platform at Asoke (inbound) side.

Yeah,  this is probably most famous case of "fine" banana republic style.

[dinsdale]

32 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

 

Taiwanese actress Charlene An paid a "fine" of 27,000 THB in January 2023.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/general/40024459

 

 

Last week, I saw a foreign tourist vaping on the BTS platform at Asoke (inbound) side.

Last week was early on in the ":crackdown/shutdown" and the fine for the Taiwanese actress was shown to be extortion if I remember correctly.

[dinsdale]

6 minutes ago, Terek said:

Is there some new law about it?

No one ever have been fined for vaping in Thailand. They can try to fine for something else indeed, such as illegal import if they can prove it you did, but then charges must be made by customs not  police. Usually it's just extortion.

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/no-vaping-and-vapes-are-not-illegal-in-thailand-heres-why/

Yes I have read that piece. It's the only thing I have seen that said vaping isn't illegal. Everything else says it is.

[Terek]

Just now, dinsdale said:

Yes I have read that piece. It's the only thing I have seen that said vaping isn't illegal. Everything else says it is.

Laws are laws, everything else can say whatever. 

[dinsdale]

2 minutes ago, Terek said:

Laws are laws, everything else can say whatever. 

Any chance you can show the actual law because if people all over Thailand have been fined or jailed for vaping or selling vapes it's obviously unlawful. Also how do you account for the complete shutdown of the vaping sector?

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

The fact of the matter it's less toxic as pointed out in my previous post.

The "fact of the matter" is actually that some people/organisations say that it is less toxic.  That doesn't make it factual.

[Terek]

2 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Any chance you can show the actual law because if people all over Thailand have been fined or jailed for vaping or selling vapes it's obviously unlawful. Also how do you account for the complete shutdown of the vaping sector?

Who has been fined or jailed and exactly for what? 

Read the article.  Lawer explains and tells people have successfully defended themselves.  You can contact this lawyer for legal consultation. 

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/no-vaping-and-vapes-are-not-illegal-in-thailand-heres-why/

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Terek said:

It's not possible to fine anyone moreover put in jail for vaping because it's not prohibited by any law.  Just appeal that fine.

Nonsense.  It is the possession of vapes that is the offence, doesn't make any difference if they're in you pocket or you're actually using the vape.

[transam]

7 minutes ago, Terek said:

Who has been fined or jailed and exactly for what? 

Read the article.  Lawer explains and tells people have successfully defended themselves.  You can contact this lawyer for legal consultation. 

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/no-vaping-and-vapes-are-not-illegal-in-thailand-heres-why/

I just read this.........

https://asiaharmreductionalliance.net/thailands-strict-vaping-ban/#:~:text=The Kingdom of Thailand is,and a booming black market.

 

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

I would like to know where you have gotten your information from that vaping isn't illegal.

Vaping isn't. but possession of the devices is, so it doesn't matter if they're vaping or not.

[dinsdale]

8 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

The "fact of the matter" is actually that some people/organisations say that it is less toxic.  That doesn't make it factual.

Have you not read what I have been posting? Maybe you should. Less harmful is the overwhelming view. Not not harmful just less harmful.  As for some organisations I think NHS UK is a reasonable source as is cancerreseachuk.com

[Terek]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Vaping isn't. but possession of the devices is, so it doesn't matter if they're vaping or not.

No it is not. Can you read English or Thai?