Thailand Yet to Finalise Policy on Taxing Expats’ Overseas Income

[Jingthing]

37 minutes ago, grain said:

That's it exactly. If we are required by law to get tax numbers and do tax returns and pay some tax because we are tax RESIDENTS, then we are no longer tourists, visitors or guests, we are residents. Therefore we should be issued with resident ID cards that distinguish us from tourists, so we get the Thai price at national parks and hospitals and all the other things that have dual pricing. 

That would be nice but in actuality tax resident and legal resident for immigration purposes are different things in most countries.

[Felton Jarvis]

Benjamin Hart with Integrity Legal says Thai taxation will not likely be an issue for most expats. I trust his knowledge.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Benjamin Hart with Integrity Legal says Thai taxation will not likely be an issue for most expats. I trust his knowledge.

That's taking his view totally out of context.

He also says regularly that each person needs to consider their specific situation meaning many expats will be legally required to file and/or file and pay tax.

 

[Yumthai]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That would be nice but in actuality tax resident and legal resident for immigration purposes are different things in most countries.

In most countries being tax resident as a foreigner will grant you the same rights and benefits as the nationals.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

ATM withdrawals are impossible to tax.

 

Also, I was informed by my Thai tax accountant that ATM withdrawals from foreign accounts are not considered remittance and thus not taxable.

That's the kind of detail that is subject to possible change.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

In most countries being tax resident as a foreigner will grant you the same rights and benefits as the nationals.

Not based on my research. In fact, they are usually separate things, and the rules to determine who is a tax resident are of course dependent on the specific country. There may be other determinant tests other than days in a country. But it's really irrelevant what most countries do. We know what Thailand does and as foreigners it really is a take it or leave it situation.

[baansgr]

A lot of lawyers have made a lot of money off this...

[Yumthai]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Not based on my research. In fact, they are usually separate things, and the rules to determine who is a tax resident are of course dependent on the specific country. There may be other determinant tests others than days in a country.

In EU, US, and I guess the other OECD countries, tax residents (foreigners and citizens) get roughly the same rights/benefits.

 

Which countries do you have in mind?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

In EU, US, and I guess the other OECD countries, tax residents (foreigners and citizens) get roughly the same rights/benefits.

 

Which countries do you have in mind?

Countries offering retirement visas.

I'm not playing into this global taxation debate.

You know the situation in Thailand and as a foreigner if you don't like how you're treated, your voice has no weight to the Thai government. If it feels good to whine, then go ahead though. 

But just for fun, a U.S. example:

Quote

Note. Under the Internal Revenue Code, even an undocumented individual who meets the Substantial Presence Test will be treated for tax purposes as a U.S. resident.

 

[Lopburikid]

7 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

It has been my opinion from the beginning that it will work out like this... - Sorry, Thailand, under these circumstances, no transfers, and no retirement in Thailand by yours truly. Also, using international credit cards only when absolutely necessary. The Thai taxman's gains will be wayyy lower than the financial loss for the Thai economy. 😉 

I have been told TWICE by my local tax revenue office. NO TAX ON RETIREMENT PENSION.

[Mr Meeseeks]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's the kind of detail that is subject to possible change.

 

I don't see how as the Common Reporting Standards (CRS) do not report on transactions, only on accounts and balances. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Lopburikid said:

I have been told TWICE by my local tax revenue office. NO TAX ON RETIREMENT PENSION.

It depends on the specifics of those pensions (according to your DTA if any).

For example for Americans, Social Security no tax, but private pensions taxed (when remitted). 

Yes it's very possible more like probable that many local tax offices know nothing about these international situations.

Some will say no tax for all retirement pensions and some will say all remitted money is taxed. Both are completely wrong.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Dmaxdan said:

I, like many decided it would be better to be safe than sorry so I went and attempted to file a tax return. I got last year's bank statement then trotted off to what I thought was nearest my tax office only to be told I don't live in the correct area.

We were then redirected to a much smaller RD located at our district office. On arrival we were seen immediately (there was nobody else in there). I was asked 'do you work here?' to which I replied 'no'.

I was then asked 'did you remit large sums of money, for example one million baht plus?' to which I replied 'no'.

I was then asked 'well why are you here then?'

We, or should I say my wife started babbling on about 180 days and new tax laws on remitted income etc etc and all we got were bewildered looks. The lady we dealt with was adamant that I was not required to file a return nor did I need a TIN. 

So I left thinking that this is one office that clearly didn't get the memo, if there ever was a memo...

 

 

 

It would be great if you could get a written acknowledgement of your honest visit and their response.

 

I've heard the same story from more than a few people.

 

Did she ask you if you were a Villa fan? 🤩

 

UTV 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

I don't see how as the Common Reporting Standards (CRS) do not report on transactions, only on accounts and balances. 

I've heard that soon AI tools will be able to gather everything. 

[UWEB]

4 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

Message to the Pattaya Mail, give it a rest.

For me that's anyway an old Story from mid of February. Wondering why it got published here as "News"

[Mr Meeseeks]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I've heard that soon AI tools will be able to gather everything. 

 

The Common Reporting Standard is a document that countries sign up to, and only allows for certain information to be exchanged including the balance of certain bank accounts.

 

More detailed information is not permitted to be shared i.e. transactions, etc. 

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, redwood1 said:

 

Not any more ......

 

Trump gave the OECD the middle finger......And the worldwide OECD tax is all but dead now.....

 

Thailand will not have a world tax until long after Trump is out of office.

 

 

 

Does this mean Trump is gonna abolish worldwide taxation for US citizens?

 

If not, then 'twould have no effect on Thailand's nefarious plans.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

The Common Reporting Standard is a document that countries sign up to, and only allows for certain information to be exchanged including the balance of certain bank accounts.

 

More detailed information is not permitted to be shared i.e. transactions, etc. 

No need to see ATM transactions within Thailand.

[ronnie50]

Glad I spent 7+ years building up my THB accounts here prior to 2024. If I can cruise on that for a while - at least another year or so - this mess should be much clearer (one would only hope).

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, VBF said:

You're probably right, but if you file once they know you exist.

 

Moral of that story "Lie low and say nothing"

 

Your advice is to do nothing until you know you have to, which is a valid opinion.

 

Other poster is proclaiming the law states that once you file, you MUST file every year thereafter, and that it appears on the TRD website.

 

Not same-same.

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

The Common Reporting Standard is a document that countries sign up to, and only allows for certain information to be exchanged including the balance of certain bank accounts.

 

More detailed information is not permitted to be shared i.e. transactions, etc. 

I think you're confused. That's about sharing between nations. Not about what any country can gather about transactions within their own countries.

 

Also of course it would no problem to identify international ATM transactions done within countries.

 

You seem to be about worrying about being caught. The real question is what the eventual rule will be for ATM transactions that represent remittances.

[Bruce Aussie]

8 hours ago, hotsun said:

Im not giving them a cent. I suggest everyone else does the same

I think the  sales tax they receive from us should be enough. 

[Yumthai]

38 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You know the situation in Thailand and as a foreigner if you don't like how you're treated, your voice has no weight to the Thai government. If it feels good to whine, then go ahead though.

Indeed, I know how the things work here and it's fine for me as I play by Thai -informal- rules. Whining is out of question.

What is weird is to keep seeing a bunch of long-term foreigner residents sticking to behave by western rules/mindset, like trying endlessly to fit a square into a circle mold.

[NorthernRyland]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

It's the foreigners who took a snippet of info and just made stuff up. 

 

For once we can say "pesky foreigners" and it's not a joke.

[NorthernRyland]

3 hours ago, dingdongrb said:

...and yet another boring tax thread that I will not be reading

but don't you want to find out who contacted their local tax office and got some random information from a nobody who knows nothing?

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Indeed, I know how the things work here and it's fine for me as I play by Thai -informal- rules. Whining is out of question.

What is weird is to keep seeing a bunch of long-term foreigner residents sticking to behave by western rules/mindset, like trying endlessly to fit a square into a circle mold.

Stamp pimps?

[Jabberwocky]

It was enough to scare that YouTuber RW4U away for most of the year, as it seems. Those loaded with money get nervous.

[Mr Meeseeks]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think you're confused. That's about sharing between nations. Not about what any country can gather about transactions within their own countries.

 

Also of course it would no problem to identify international ATM transactions done within countries.

 

You seem to be about worrying about being caught. The real question is what the eventual rule will be for ATM transactions that represent remittances.

 

I'm not confused at all. It seems to be you that is confused over the scope and definition of the Common Reporting Standard.

 

They have no ability of tracing foreign ATM transactions back to the foreign parent account nor does that fall within the scope of the CRS.

 

The CRS is to share account information i.e. balances of reportable accounts so they can see if taxable income is being hidden.

 

If you remit money into a Thai bank account then of course they can see the money coming in and if it is a significant amount, and you are a tax resident they may question the source of the funds as it may be taxable income.

 

I cannot really see this affecting any of us unless you are transferring in large sums from overseas into your bank account, you are a tax resident, and you get flagged accordingly if you haven't declared it on your tax return.

[Felton Jarvis]

42 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Does this mean Trump is gonna abolish worldwide taxation for US citizens?

 

If not, then 'twould have no effect on Thailand's nefarious plans.

Trump is not going to do ANYTHING that benefits you or any other American.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

I'm not confused at all. It seems to be you that is confused over the scope and definition of the Common Reporting Standard.

 

They have no ability of tracing foreign ATM transactions back to the foreign parent account nor does that fall within the scope of the CRS.

 

The CRS is to share account information i.e. balances of reportable accounts so they can see if taxable income is being hidden.

 

If you remit money into a Thai bank account then of course they can see the money coming in and if it is a significant amount, and you are a tax resident they may question the source of the funds as it may be taxable income.

 

I cannot really see this affecting any of us unless you are transferring in large sums from overseas into your bank account, you are a tax resident, and you get flagged accordingly if you haven't declared it on your tax return.

We're talking about different things and I'm finding your line of posting tedious. 

Wait and see how TRD treats such withdrawals.

If they include them, then the question will be about the specific source of the withdrawals (accessable or not).

Thailand will definitely be able to see those transactions.

No, they won't know whether the source is accessable or not.

Pretty much the same as wire transfers.

It's up to the tax resident to report accessable remittances.