Bow your head with great respect

[cjinchiangrai]

3 hours ago, Sierra Tango said:

This may help your grades;

Known as the Tripitaka, the sacred texts of Buddhism are broken down into three sections known as baskets. Referred to in the West as the Three Baskets, the Tripitaka includes the Vinaya Pitaka, the Sutta Pitaka, and the Abhidhamma Pitaka.

And your point is?

[cjinchiangrai]

3 hours ago, Zaphod Priest said:

 

Nope.  They did it because God in his infinite wisdom commanded it.  No need for logic.

 

"The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses."

Deuteronomy 14:8

 

"For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised"

Genesis 17:12

Prove that a magical sky fairy said so and we will talk. Otherwise there is no law.

[VBF]

22 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

It's not really though is it? The only condition is that you have the belief that no gods exist until there is sufficient proof otherwise. 

 

In most religions the belief system entails all sorts of conditions, dogmas and rituals that must be adhered to to be a real follower. None of these appear in atheism.

 

Moreover there must be endless discussion and argument between religious sects and denominations on how all of this is applied and what it means.  None of this is applicable in atheism. And there are no leaders or rules to follow. Nowhere near comparable as a belief system. Not even a philosophy.

Atheism denies  that gods exist, but there's no "until" It's just that - they don't exist - period.

An Atheist will make an effort to avoid any of the conditions etc that you mention, so it is, if you like a "non-belief system."

An Atheist, when meeting a religious believer is likely to assert his/her thought that "your religion is illogical / bad because....."

It matters to them.

 

Agnosticism basically says "Don't know and don't care, I'm not interested." I have good friends who declare them selves as Christians and make references to god - when we meet we rarely discuss the matter out of mutual respect, but if it comes up in conversation, my response is along the lines of "Oh, OK then" because it all goes over my head and I'm happy with that. It doesn't matter one little bit to me.

 

If someone was to somehow prove to me the existence of a god, I would still be of the opinion, "I don't care, what's it got to do with me?"

 

Do you see my distinction?

[rattlesnake]

4 hours ago, cjinchiangrai said:

You are confusing the dogma of faith with the dismissal of ignorance.

 

I am identifying the age-old propensity to look down on others with contempt when they don't share one's beliefs, as you have just illustrated.

[cjinchiangrai]

1 minute ago, VBF said:

Atheism denies  that gods exist, but there's no "until" It's just that - they don't exist - period.

An Atheist will make an effort to avoid any of the conditions etc that you mention, so it is, if you like a "non-belief system"

An Atheist, when meeting a religious believer is likely to assert his/her thought that "your religion is illogical / bad because....."

It matters to them.

 

Agnosticism basically says "Don't know and don't care, I'm not interested" I have good friends who declare them selves as Christians and make references to god - when we meet we rarely discuss the matter out of mutual respect, but if it comes up in conversation, my response is along the lines of "Oh, OK then" because it all goes over my head and I'm happy with that. It doesn't matter one little bit to me.

Do you see my distinction?

Yes, and I would modify the atheistic statement a bit: Because there is no evidence that any god exists, I need not concern myself with your "rules", unless you decide to force them on me in the name of your favorite deity. If you want me to follow your rules, you need to verify the source of your authority.

[VBF]

1 minute ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Yes, and I would modify the atheistic statement a bit: Because there is no evidence that any god exists, I need not concern myself with your "rules", unless you decide to force them on me in the name of your favorite deity. If you want me to follow your rules, you need to verify the source of your authority.

I agree, whereas the agnostic (me) would probably yawn and say something like "Whatever"

[NativeBob]

3 minutes ago, VBF said:

An Atheist, when meeting a religious believer is likely to assert his/her thought that "your religion is illogical / bad because....."

Good point. Lets take it further:

when follower of religion A meets a follower of religion F then real FUN begins! 

 

We're here at very funny loop - first use the term Atheist then try to describe it. My point: why bother? Ancient cults should be left in ancient times and museums. I don't take them seriously - they are just non-funny and often utterly boring. 

Besides most foreigners didn't come to TH looking to peace of mind, rather different peace

[VBF]

1 minute ago, NativeBob said:

Good point. Lets take it further:

when follower of religion A meets a follower of religion F then real FUN begins! 

 

We're here at very funny loop - first use the term Atheist then try to describe it. My point: why bother? Ancient cults should be left in ancient times and museums. I don't take them seriously - they are just non-funny and often utterly boring. 

Besides most foreigners didn't come to TH looking to peace of mind, rather different peace

Which, IMO, makes you a fellow agnostic: Why bother, who cares....

[cjinchiangrai]

2 minutes ago, VBF said:

Which, IMO, makes you a fellow agnostic: Why bother, who cares....

Because it is not the atheists depriving others of their rights.

[NativeBob]

2 minutes ago, VBF said:

Which, IMO, makes you a fellow agnostic: Why bother, who cares....

Nope, I had a checkup last week. No signs no symptoms. 

Please do avoid labels when they are not needed. 

I rather use term from Nietzsche, but some here might misunderstand and go complete banana. 

[VBF]

3 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Because it is not the atheists depriving others of their rights.

Not sure I get that.

Neither atheists nor agnostics deprive anyone of anything.

Atheists just want others to understand their POV and will make efforts to explain them.

As I said above agnostics tend to the view of "if you want to believe, go ahead, just do no harm to others." Sort of an "Up to you" philosophy.

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, Sierra Tango said:

This may help your grades;

Known as the Tripitaka, the sacred texts of Buddhism are broken down into three sections known as baskets. Referred to in the West as the Three Baskets, the Tripitaka includes the Vinaya Pitaka, the Sutta Pitaka, and the Abhidhamma Pitaka.

I remember Monkey (1978)

Tripitaka was the cute teen girl riding the horse.

[rattlesnake]

43 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

It's not really though is it? The only condition is that you have the belief that no gods exist until there is sufficient proof otherwise. 

 

In most religions the belief system entails all sorts of conditions, dogmas and rituals that must be adhered to to be a real follower. None of these appear in atheism.

 

Moreover there must be endless discussion and argument between religious sects and denominations on how all of this is applied and what it means.  None of this is applicable in atheism. And there are no leaders or rules to follow. Nowhere near comparable as a belief system. Not even a philosophy.

 

Here is an interesting empirical statistic: I have never met an atheist who was not an unwavering believer of the Science dogma. I am sure a few will want to forcefully explain to me why that is and/or what the differences are, and therefore illustrate my point for me.

[VBF]

10 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Here is an interesting empirical statistic: I have never met an atheist who was not an unwavering believer of the Science dogma. I am sure a few will want to forcefully explain to me why that is and/or what the differences are, and therefore illustrate my point for me.

I suggest that is something atheists and agnostics have in common:

Both assert that whatever exists cam be explained by verifiable science rather than religious belief.

[Baht Simpson]

9 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

I have never met an atheist who was not an unwavering believer of the Science dogma.

Science doesn't concern itself with the spiritual, just the natural world. 

 

I think you might be thinking of the so-called New Atheists who actively attempt to persuade people that they know gods don't exist. That's not traditional atheism whereby you just don't believe a creator God exists. 

[cjinchiangrai]

5 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

Science doesn't concern itself with the spiritual, just the natural world. 

 

I think you might be thinking of the so-called New Atheists who actively attempt to persuade people that they know gods don't exist. That's not traditional atheism whereby you just don't believe a creator God exists. 

Just attempting to deprogram cult members.

[cjinchiangrai]

47 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

I am identifying the age-old propensity to look down on others with contempt when they don't share one's beliefs, as you have just illustrated.

More like pity that others are living in delusion.

[NoDisplayName]

12 hours ago, sidjameson said:

I agree with you except that there is no evidence for there being nothing 1 second before the bang. Everything from nothing? That's a belief.

 

Who said there was nothing before the big bang?

A singularity is not a 'nothing.'

Quite the opposite, the singularity is an 'everything.'

 

And according to some versions of the theory, both space and time came into existence with the big bang, so the concept of 'before' time is meaningless.

[NoDisplayName]

12 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Atheism is a belief system, with everything it entails in terms of dogma and hostility towards non-believers (in fact, I have often found atheists to have very little tolerance towards those who don't share their belief).

 

Please list the tenets of the atheism religion.

[cjinchiangrai]

45 minutes ago, VBF said:

Not sure I get that.

Neither atheists nor agnostics deprive anyone of anything.

Atheists just want others to understand their POV and will make efforts to explain them.

As I said above agnostics tend to the view of "if you want to believe, go ahead, just do no harm to others." Sort of an "Up to you" philosophy.

OK, you can "Me Too" if you want but religions are still trying to delete your rights.

[cjinchiangrai]

3 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Please list the tenets of the atheism religion.

A.} There is no evidence of a or magic.

B.) See A.

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, VBF said:

That's the point - Atheism is as much a a  belief system as any religion.

 

Atheism being a belief system and/or religion is the same as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

[NoDisplayName]

1 minute ago, cjinchiangrai said:

A.} There is no evidence of a or magic.

B.) See A.

 

That's a surprise!  Our pastor at the church of atheism never mentioned that when delivering edicts from the pope of atheism.

[rattlesnake]

5 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Please list the tenets of the atheism religion.

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Thou shall worship Science
Thou shall belittle those who challenge Science

Thou shall consider mankind to exist only within the visible and physical realms of mortal existence

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, VBF said:

For me being Agnostic makes more sense,  of which one comparison is:

"Atheists typically maintain that there is no God, while agnostics believe it's impossible to know for sure whether one exists or not"   makes far more sense.

 

There are gnostic atheists who do claim that, but they can't support their claims.  At best they can disprove specific gods.

 

Most are agnostic atheists who do not believe due to lack of sufficient evidence, but not ruling out the possibility.

[NoDisplayName]

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Thou shall worship Science
Thou shall belittle those who challenge Science

Thou shall consider mankind to exist only within the visible and physical realms of mortal existence

 

Men of straw.

That is not atheism.

 

Some atheists believe in an afterlife, and the supernatural, and ghosts.

 

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in imaginary creator beings.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, VBF said:

I agree, whereas the agnostic (me) would probably yawn and say something like "Whatever"

 

Then you are not solely agnostic.

You're an agnostic something, with agnostic being an adjective.

Agnostic means you may doubt, you may be skeptical, you may believe it is not possible to know a thing.

That does not imply you don't care or it doesn't matter.

[rattlesnake]

12 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Men of straw.

That is not atheism.

 

Some atheists believe in an afterlife, and the supernatural, and ghosts.

 

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in imaginary creator beings.

 

I wasn't really addressing the definition of atheism, but rather the atheists' own propensity to adhere to dogma, which I think is part of the human condition.

 

For context, I was an atheist myself for a long time. I used to love Richard Dawkins, for example (I read The God Delusion a couple of decades ago). Now, in retrospect, I simply see him as a man with beliefs who uses all sorts of classical rhetorical means to put them forth.

[VBF]

24 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

OK, you can "Me Too" if you want but religions are still trying to delete your rights.

And I ignore them - QED

[VBF]

26 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Atheism being a belief system and/or religion is the same as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Incorrect - your description applies to agnosticism - i.e. don't give a damn; atheist have beliefs about the non-existence of gods etc and go to some lengths to tell others