One Big Beautiful Bill? More Like One Big Bloody Oversized Stich-Up, Bruv

[Lacessit]

23 minutes ago, ThreeCardMonte said:

Maybe he can play golf with Trump.  
 

He can come back and say Trump cheated him.

 

 

Golfers with any self-respect won't play with Trump.

 

That's why he buys golf courses, to put his name on championship boards.

 

It's also why I have played Pine Valley twice, and he will never be invited to play there.

[wwest5829]

On 5/16/2025 at 11:25 PM, Tug said:

Yup another grift for the billionaires to heck with regular folks….it’s beeing described as political seppku lol it’s such a blatant rep off of the working class that even the trumpers are starting to realize it …….oh and another tidbit since I’ve gotten back to the states I haven’t spotted one trumper sporting any of that cheap Chinese swag not a one,I’m in San Diego a fairly conservative military town….me thinks they are a starting to sour on the orange flimflam man.

One can only hope.

[ThreeCardMonte]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

"End the war in Ukraine in 24 hours"

"Lower the cost of living"

"No cuts to SS and Medicare"

 

You are delusional.

1 out of 3.

 

We all knew the 24 hours was an exaggeration.  Even I knew that.

 

Cost have gone down and will continue.

 

Eliminating fraud, waste and abuse is not a cut. Nor is free medical for illegal aliens.

 

Next!

[johnnybangkok]

20 hours ago, save the frogs said:

 

So there are 2 possibilities. 

1 - You are excessively paranoid

 

2 - They are not cutting Medicaid. They are trying to get rid of the abuse and fraud in the social security systems. Again, this is from the horse's mouth. But says YOU that nothing from this web site can be trusted. 

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/03/fact-check-president-trump-will-always-protect-social-security-medicare/

 

The Trump Administration will not cut Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid benefits. President Trump himself has said it (over and over and over again).

 

Elon Musk didn’t say that, either. The press is lying again.

 

Ok then how is he going to do it then? I know you question media but here is a quote from the Economist, hopefully viewed as a relaible source for facts and figures regardless of political affiliations. 
'The only chance Republicans have of coming close to balancing their budget bill would be through almighty spending cuts. A separate committee has drafted a plan to cut spending by nearly $900bn, principally by reducing expenditures on Medicaid, the health-insurance programme for the poor. Further proposed cuts are expected on food stamps, the nutrition-assistance programme for the poor.'  https://www.economist.com/united-states/2025/05/13/republicans-have-a-plan-to-add-trillions-to-the-national-debt (might be behind a paywall. I have a subscription).

 

So the plan is there (and it's a GOP appointed committee) but you assert that Trump is promising to not touch SS, Medicare/Medicaid. So how EXACTLY will $900bn be cut? 

 

[ThreeCardMonte]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Golfers with any self-respect won't play with Trump.

 

That's why he buys golf courses, to put his name on championship boards.

 

It's also why I have played Pine Valley twice, and he will never be invited to play there.

Not bitter are you?

[wwest5829]

On 5/17/2025 at 6:38 AM, save the frogs said:

I don't know much about it ... so I have to look it up.

 

Is it possible our mate Lewie is misrepresenting this bill to suit his own bias and twisted agenda?

 

Here is what it says on the govt page:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/05/one-big-beautiful-bill-is-a-once-in-a-generation-chance/

 

1 - It's the largest tax cut ever 

Americans earning between $30,000 and $80,000 will pay around 15% less in taxes

 

2 - It kicks illegal immigrants off taxpayer-funded Medicaid benefits. This bill eliminates waste, fraud, and abuse by ending benefits for at least 1.4 million illegal immigrants who are gaming the system.

 

3 - It prohibits Medicaid funding for gender transition procedures for minors.

 

 

Might have some valid points if citing a creditable source … not the ministry of propaganda. Largest tax cut ever … if you compare it to the expiration of the 2017 Trump/Republican tax cut that added how much to the USA debt due to those previous cuts going mostly to the wealthy and corporations? Largest tax cut ever? And who gets the overwhelming amount of benefit? Apologize, some of us are able to think our way through the misleading BS.

[ThreeCardMonte]

14 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

"End the war in Ukraine in 24 hours"

"Lower the cost of living"

"No cuts to SS and Medicare"

 

You are delusional.

Forgive me.  I forgot a very important reply.

 

"End the war in Ukraine in 24 hours"

 

While on the subject of quotes.

 

Who infamously said “I will not pardon my son”?

 

Which press secretary said “Hunter Biden will not be pardoned”?

 

In case you have forgotten.  
 

 

[johnnybangkok]

On 5/17/2025 at 6:38 AM, save the frogs said:

I don't know much about it ... so I have to look it up.

 

Is it possible our mate Lewie is misrepresenting this bill to suit his own bias and twisted agenda?

 

Here is what it says on the govt page:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/05/one-big-beautiful-bill-is-a-once-in-a-generation-chance/

 

1 - It's the largest tax cut ever 

Americans earning between $30,000 and $80,000 will pay around 15% less in taxes

 

2 - It kicks illegal immigrants off taxpayer-funded Medicaid benefits. This bill eliminates waste, fraud, and abuse by ending benefits for at least 1.4 million illegal immigrants who are gaming the system.

 

3 - It prohibits Medicaid funding for gender transition procedures for minors.

 

 

"By analysing policy options previously touted by Republicans to reduce Medicaid funding, non-partisan think tank the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that the latest proposals could cut the number of people eligible for coverage by around 8.6 million over the next decade and result in up to 13.7 milllion Americans losing their health insurance by 2034.'   https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/republicans-proposed-medicaid-cuts-met-with-dismay/?cf-view

 

Now that's an awful lot of 'illegal immigrants' who someone else has pointed aren't even covered by Medicare nor SS (https://crr.bc.edu/the-truth-about-immigrants-medicare-and-social-security/). You don't seem to be like many of the more fervant Trump fans on this site who don't deal with facts and figures but you really need to stop drinking the Koolaid and get better informed. He promised not to touch Medicaid/Medicare and here we have it in black and white. From the same article:-

'Commenting on the bill, the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) expressed “deep concern” over the proposed plans, stating that they would ultimately limit coverage and access to care for “many of the over 70 million Americans – specifically children, older adults, individuals with disabilities, and those in rural and underserved communities – who rely on Medicaid for health care coverage” 

[wwest5829]

On 5/17/2025 at 7:13 AM, flexomike said:

 

Ha! Why the Republican resistance in the House? Because … like the previous Trump/Republican passed tax reduction in 2017  (the current Bill renews and enhances) … it will add yet more to the debt of the USA. The current Bill is just a continuation of spending but refusing to t@x to cover wanted/needed programs … from medical coverage to defense.

[connda]

Republicans pummel Democrats for massive omnibus bills, and then Trump and the Republicans introduce a monstrosity of their own.  This is how both parties of the two party duopoly hide excessive congressional spending and bankrupt the nation as they line their own pockets.

[save the frogs]

13 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

So how EXACTLY will $900bn be cut? 

I don't know.

It's above my pay grade. 

Good to be skeptical.

 

[save the frogs]

12 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

"By analysing policy options previously touted by Republicans to reduce Medicaid funding, non-partisan think tank the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that the latest proposals could cut the number of people eligible for coverage by around 8.6 million over the next decade and result in up to 13.7 milllion Americans losing their health insurance by 2034.'   https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/republicans-proposed-medicaid-cuts-met-with-dismay/?cf-view

 

Now that's an awful lot of 'illegal immigrants' who someone else has pointed aren't even covered by Medicare nor SS (https://crr.bc.edu/the-truth-about-immigrants-medicare-and-social-security/). You don't seem to be like many of the more fervant Trump fans on this site who don't deal with facts and figures but you really need to stop drinking the Koolaid and get better informed. He promised not to touch Medicaid/Medicare and here we have it in black and white. From the same article:-

'Commenting on the bill, the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) expressed “deep concern” over the proposed plans, stating that they would ultimately limit coverage and access to care for “many of the over 70 million Americans – specifically children, older adults, individuals with disabilities, and those in rural and underserved communities – who rely on Medicaid for health care coverage” 

 

Yeah, so from the site, he claims:

Unauthorized immigrants are not eligible for Medicare or Social Security retirement benefits.  Nor does any evidence exist that unauthorized immigrants fraudulently receive benefits in large numbers. 

 

Ok, so he is claiming Trump is lying.

So to be honest, I don't know. 

If someone pays me, I'll look into it further. 

As of right now, it's above my pay grade.

 

However, you have no reason to believe this guy over the Trump administration.

Both the media and the govt are quite capable of stretching the truth. 

Please don't act like the media is Holy just because it supports your narrative.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[johnnybangkok]

21 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

Yeah, so from the site, he claims:

Unauthorized immigrants are not eligible for Medicare or Social Security retirement benefits.  Nor does any evidence exist that unauthorized immigrants fraudulently receive benefits in large numbers. 

 

Ok, so he is claiming Trump is lying.

So to be honest, I don't know. 

If someone pays me, I'll look into it further. 

As of right now, it's above my pay grade.

 

However, you have no reason to believe this guy over the Trump administration.

Both the media and the govt are quite capable of stretching the truth. 

Please don't act like the media is Holy just because it supports your narrative.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems everything is “above your pay grade” but rather than do some simple research (there’s plenty of other sources to corroborate what I am saying - Google is your friend) you’d rather go with the Trump narrative. 
Illegal immigrants don’t get Medicare. Fact. Trump wants $900bn cut in services. Fact. The ONLY way to do that is to take a large saw to these programs. Fact. 
Now this may be shocking to you so you might want to sit down but Trump and his cohorts lie ALL THE TIME and they are certainly lying about this. The point though is whether you want to know the truth or sit in your Trump bubble with your fingers in your ears loudly screaming “la, la, la” like most Trump fans do?

[save the frogs]

12 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

It seems everything is “above your pay grade” but rather than do some simple research (there’s plenty of other sources to corroborate what I am saying - Google is your friend) you’d rather go with the Trump narrative. 
Illegal immigrants don’t get Medicare. Fact. Trump wants $900bn cut in services. Fact. The ONLY way to do that is to take a large saw to these programs. Fact. 
Now this may be shocking to you so you might want to sit down but Trump and his cohorts lie ALL THE TIME and they are certainly lying about this. The point though is whether you want to know the truth or sit in your Trump bubble with your fingers in your ears loudly screaming “la, la, la” like most Trump fans do?

 

I just did a quick google search. Although most sites claim illegal immigrants are not entitled, I also came across this:

 

 

A growing number of states have been ... something ... I can't click on the link

 

 

 

It appears that some states are bypassing Federal legislation and implementing their own policies.

 

https://www.city-journal.org/article/trump-department-of-health-and-human-services-medicaid-waivers-illegal-immigrants

 

Trump Should End Medicaid for Illegal Immigrants

 

it would deter additional Democrat-led states from using state funds to cover illegal immigrants under Medicaid. Second, if these states stop covering them, some illegal immigrants would self-deport or find more productive jobs.

 

 

 

[save the frogs]

The thing is, I don't think the White House would print false information on their web site because it's too easy to trace it back as a lie.

 

Trump might lie on the news in the heat of the moment, but the White House will not print total garbage nonsense on their official web site. It's not a Banana Republic. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, save the frogs said:

The thing is, I don't think the White House would print false information on their web site because it's too easy to trace it back as a lie.

 

Trump might lie on the news in the heat of the moment, but the White House will not print total garbage nonsense on their official web site. It's not a Banana Republic. 

 

 

Only maga true believers would believe that for a second!

This white house just like its dear leader LIES CONSTANTLY!

The US doesn't grow bananas so not a banana republic. I'll give you that one.

[Jingthing]

BTW, Medicare and Medicaid are DIFFERENT programs.

What the big bogus bill is trying to do is to GUT Medicaid.

Medicaid is targeting more to the poorest Americans. 

With maga cruelty is the point.

[save the frogs]

What happened to Lewie?

Lewie, you want to weigh in?

 

[hankypankee]

On 5/17/2025 at 8:38 AM, save the frogs said:

I don't know much about it ... so I have to look it up.

 

Is it possible our mate Lewie is misrepresenting this bill to suit his own bias and twisted agenda?

 

Here is what it says on the govt page:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/05/one-big-beautiful-bill-is-a-once-in-a-generation-chance/

 

1 - It's the largest tax cut ever 

Americans earning between $30,000 and $80,000 will pay around 15% less in taxes

 

2 - It kicks illegal immigrants off taxpayer-funded Medicaid benefits. This bill eliminates waste, fraud, and abuse by ending benefits for at least 1.4 million illegal immigrants who are gaming the system.

 

3 - It prohibits Medicaid funding for gender transition procedures for minors.

 

 

According to Grok:

 

1 - The “largest tax cut ever” claim is exaggerated without clear evidence it surpasses historical cuts in real terms. The 15% tax reduction for $30,000–$80,000 earners is unverified and likely overstated, as benefits may not be uniformly distributed across this income range. The claims rely on optimistic assumptions.

 

2 - The claim is misleading and partially false. The bill may tighten Medicaid eligibility, but the 1.4 million figure lacks evidence, and the “waste, fraud, abuse” framing is exaggerated and unsubstantiated. The focus on “illegal immigrants” oversimplifies a complex issue, potentially conflating legal and illegal statuses.

 

3 - The claim is likely true, as the bill probably includes this prohibition, consistent with stated GOP priorities. However, the framing is exaggerated, overstating the issue’s prevalence and using loaded language.

 

Conclusion: Approximately 30–40% of these claims are problematic due to exaggerations(largest tax cut, fraud narrative), unverified specifics (15% tax cut, 1.4 million figure), or misleading framing (Medicaid eligibility, “sanity” rhetoric). Point 3 is the most accurate, while Point 2 is the most misleading, with elements bordering on falsehood due to lack of evidence. Point 1 falls in between, with plausible but overstated claims. Verify details with primary sources like the House Budget Committee website for clarity.

[save the frogs]

11 hours ago, hankypankee said:

falsehood due to lack of evidence

lack of evidence probably due to shady bookkeeping due to states bending the rules, maybe

 

[save the frogs]

11 hours ago, hankypankee said:

1 - The “largest tax cut ever” claim is exaggerated 

largest ever may be exaggerated, but tax cuts nonetheless.

 

and yet people continue to spew the generalized attack "they only care about lining their own pockets".

is that substantiated? 

 

[hankypankee]

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

lack of evidence probably due to shady bookkeeping due to states bending the rules, maybe

 

Conjecture at best. 

[candide]

5 hours ago, ThreeCardMonte said:

1 out of 3.

 

We all knew the 24 hours was an exaggeration.  Even I knew that.

 

Cost have gone down and will continue.

 

Eliminating fraud, waste and abuse is not a cut. Nor is free medical for illegal aliens.

 

Next!

Lol! Apart from the global oil price decrease, which is due to Saudi Arabia deciding to increase its production last year, which cost have gone down?

[hankypankee]

1 minute ago, save the frogs said:

largest ever may be exaggerated, but tax cuts nonetheless.

 

and yet people continue to spew the generalized attack "they only care about lining their own pockets".

is that substantiated? 

 

In 40+ years I've never seen the convicted criminal do anything but help himself. Now he's running the biggest crypto grift in presidential history from the White House. People don't change. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, hankypankee said:

In 40+ years I've never seen the convicted criminal do anything but help himself. Now he's running the biggest crypto grift in presidential history from the White House. People don't change. 

Most corrupt president ever. He doesn't even hide it.

Normal president serves the people.

Wanna be God King -- the entire world pressured to serve him.

Totally insane that any decent American support his mess.

[candide]

The impact of tax cuts has already been discussed (between + 0.6% for the poorest cat3gory to +4.3% for the richest category). Here is the assessment of the effect of both tax cuts and cuts to federal programs such as Medicaid and food stamps, by the Penn Wharton budget model.

 

"The bottom 20% of households, who earn up to about $17,000 annually, would see their after-tax incomes drop by $1,035 in 2026, including a reduction in government benefits, the nonpartisan group found. The top 0.1%, who earn at least $4.3 million per year, would get an annual after-tax boost of about $389,000, Penn Wharton said."

 

And the reply from the WH!

 

"Once again, the experts are wrong, just as they were about the impact of Trump's tariffs, which have yielded trillions in investments, record job growth, and no inflation," said White House spokesman Harrison Fields in an email to CBS MoneyWatch. " 🤣

 

These estimates don't take into account the possible impact of tariffs on inflation. It is  also discussed in the article

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gop-tax-bill-one-big-beautiful-bill-impact-by-income-group/