United States credit rating

[illisdean]

Oh well....

Key Reasons for the Downgrade

**Moody's cited the following factors for the downgrade:

• Rising Government Debt: A sustained increase in federal debt over more than a decade, with debt-to-GDP ratios significantly higher than other similarly rated sovereigns.
• Increased Interest Payments: Growing interest costs due to higher interest rates, straining debt affordability.
• Large Fiscal Deficits: Successive administrations and Congress have failed to reverse annual fiscal deficits, with Moody's projecting deficits could widen further, especially if President Trump’s 2017 tax cuts are extended (estimated to add $4 trillion to the deficit over the next decade).
• Political Dysfunction: Ongoing gridlock in Washington, including failure to pass meaningful fiscal reforms, exacerbates fiscal risks.

In the meantime, who can the HATERS blame this on....ha ha ha ....

 

 

**Moodys-- https://ratings.moodys.com/ratings-news

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoniopequenoiv/2025/05/16/moodys-slashes-united-states-credit-rating-over-rising-government-debt-and-interest/

[HappyExpat57]

The United States' international credit rating is now the lowest it's been in over 100 years.

Apparently, no one accepts Qatari jets as collateral.

[Captain Flack]

Off topic post removed. @illisdean discuss the topic and stop trying to deflect topic.

 

This topic “United States credit rating”

[candide]

The debt level is certainly an issue that this administration needs to address!

Oh wait! 😆

 

"The package would cut taxes deeply – essentially making permanent the sweeping individual income tax provisions of Trump’s 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, as well as adding several temporary tax breaks to fulfill the president’s campaign promises.

 

It also calls for historic cuts to the nation’s safety net – particularly Medicaid and food stamps – in an effort to cut spending.

 

But the tax revenue loss would still swamp the spending reductions. The package would add $3.3 trillion to the nation’s debt over the next decade, according to a preliminary estimate from the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.

 

Annual deficits would jump from $1.8 trillion in 2024 to $2.9 trillion by 2034 as the federal government would continue to spend more than it would raise in revenue, the committee projected."

 

The United States just lost its last perfect credit rating

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/16/business/moody-us-credit

[metisdead]

A post using a derogatory nickname to belittle or mock individuals with differing political views has been removed. 

[koolkarl]

And what about Japan, Italy, Greece, etc.  All bankrupt.  Only thing that keeps them going is a printing press and the

ignorance of the masses. 

[wwest5829]

On 5/17/2025 at 7:49 AM, impulse said:

From Moody's:

 

“This one-notch downgrade on our 21-notch rating scale reflects the increase over more than a decade in government debt and interest payment ratios to levels that are significantly higher than similarly rated sovereigns,” the rating agency said in a statement.

 

From the WH:

 

President Trump’s spokesman Steven Cheung pointed out that the economist for Moody’s is an Obama/Clinton hack.

 

“Mark Zandi, the economist for Moody’s, is an Obama advisor and Clinton donor who has been a Never Trumper since 2016. Nobody takes his “analysis” seriously. He has been proven wrong time and time again,” Steven Cheung said.

 

Of course they waited until the election was over and they had a chance to hurt the Bad Orange Man, though the debt buildup was years in the making.  Anyone who doesn't see that just isn't looking.

 

On 5/17/2025 at 7:17 AM, Tug said:

Well moodeys just downgraded our credit rating…..so much winning,wonder who trump is going to blame this on.

I have already had a FB entry telling me that Moody’s was the last to drop the rating. Others started dropping under Obama. I have not gone back to go through the history of when, why … MGA will dismiss as having any importance because … Trump.

[wwest5829]

On 5/17/2025 at 8:30 AM, RuamRudy said:

 

The overwhelming majority of Americans rejected the Trump crime family at the election - does that mean that only minority cultist rhetoric can be given credit?

Sadly we are all in the ship as they drill through the hull … below the “water line”.

[spidermike007]

The US deeply and richly deserves this downgrade in the credit rating, they are hugely unreliable at this point in time and cannot be trusted. They have the great misfortune of a highly unstable, fanatical and at least partially insane leader. 

[jas007]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The US deeply and richly deserves this downgrade in the credit rating, they are hugely unreliable at this point in time and cannot be trusted. They have the great misfortune of a highly unstable, fanatical and at least partially insane leader. 

In there grand scheme of things, Trump will be but a footnote.  Moreover, nobody cares about Moodys and their political stunt. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the current Western banking system, the widespread use of fiat currencies, and the fact that countries using fiat currencies are bankrupt, but for their real assets. The exception to that general rule is the USA and its ability to issue the world reserve currency.  The existing system needs US dollars to function, and that equates to value.  So while the USA may be "bankrupt," that state of affairs can continue for the foreseeable future, and long after Trump is gone from the scene.  

[jas007]

23 hours ago, Airalee said:

Wouldn’t it be interesting to have some sort of way of peering into the (supposedly) Quadrillion dollar global derivatives market?  

I'm not sure anyone really knows the extent of it. And that may be a good thing. Perhaps it's best if the illusion persists. A big security blanket for everyone.  For example, many many people think they own gold.  But do they really, or do they just hold some paper promise?  So long as everyone believes in the promises made, then the gold market will continue to function.  Otherwise, maybe not. 

 

For sure, they have some idea about the extent of the notational value of existing derrivative contracts and gross values, but  the world has yet to find out how it all plays out in the event of a systemic meltdown. 

[KhunLA]

52 minutes ago, jas007 said:

I'm not sure anyone really knows the extent of it. And that may be a good thing. Perhaps it's best if the illusion persists. A big security blanket for everyone.  For example, many many people think they own gold.  But do they really, or do they just hold some paper promise?  So long as everyone believes in the promises made, then the gold market will continue to function.  Otherwise, maybe not. 

 

For sure, they have some idea about the extent of the notational value of existing derrivative contracts and gross values, but  the world has yet to find out how it all plays out in the event of a systemic meltdown. 

Be a prepper, as the 'end is near'.  OK, probably not, and a good thing.   But if 'prepping', purposely or not, man, you can save a lot of money.   

 

No or little electric & water bill.  No petrol bill.  Fresh organic fruits & veggies.   Even eggs & chickens if putting in a wee more effort.

 

Move to a country with no RE or Income tax.   Only a fair, across the board VAT.

 

We don't need no stinkin' 1st world country 

[dinsdale]

On 5/17/2025 at 8:45 AM, RuamRudy said:

 

Of a total electorate of 186.5 million people, he received 77.3 million votes. 58% of Americans did not support him. That gives me hope. 

Tell us. Who got more votes Trump or Harris? Who won the Electoral College votes? Who won the popular vote? Which party has the majority in the House and the Senate? Obviously the % that voted for Trump was higher than the % that voted for Harris. Your attempted spin is pitiful.  

[jas007]

42 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Be a prepper, as the 'end is near'.  OK, probably not, and a good thing.   But if 'prepping', purposely or not, man, you can save a lot of money.   

 

No or little electric & water bill.  No petrol bill.  Fresh organic fruits & veggies.   Even eggs & chickens if putting in a wee more effort.

 

Move to a country with no RE or Income tax.   Only a fair, across the board VAT.

 

We don't need no stinkin' 1st world country 

Unfortunately, there's probably no good halfway solution.  It would be nice if there was, but how would that work?

 

Electric, water, petrol, fresh organic fruits and vegetables?  Where do you think all that stuff would come from? How would it be manufactured and transported?  And what about all the people who could no longer afford to live without a first world economy and its industrialized agricultural production?   In the USA, those people are already living on borrowed time and borrowed money, and the country is still functional, more or less. But it's slowly slipping away from them. Take away the existing structure and all hell would break loose.  Whatever "prepping" anyone did wouldn't be enough. It would be Mad Mex on steroids.  

 

Even for the people living in Thailand, out in the sticks and away from the rat race. They, too, would be affected.  What would they use for money? How would they protect it?   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, jas007 said:

Unfortunately, there's probably no good halfway solution.  It would be nice if there was, but how would that work?

 

Electric, water, petrol, fresh organic fruits and vegetables?  Where do you think all that stuff would come from? How would it be manufactured and transported?  And what about all the people who could no longer afford to live without a first world economy and its industrialized agricultural production?   In the USA, those people are already living on borrowed time and borrowed money, and the country is still functional, more or less. But it's slowly slipping away from them. Take away the existing structure and all hell would break loose.  Whatever "prepping" anyone did wouldn't be enough. It would be Mad Mex on steroids.  

 

Even for the people living in Thailand, out in the sticks and away from the rat race. They, too, would be affected.  What would they use for money? How would they protect it?   

I think you missed the 'prepper' , self self sufficient part.   If all hell broke loose, I don't care.  World's overpopulated.  Live with their choices.

 

Every country should try to strive to be self sufficient anyway.  At least feed and energize themselves.  Part of what is wrong with today.  To many people depend on other, thus making it easy to 'control' people.  

 

Keep them in the dark and feed 'em <deleted>.   Humans got the brains of a mushroom 

[jas007]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I think you missed the 'prepper' , self self sufficient part.   If all hell broke loose, I don't care.  World's overpopulated.  Live with their choices.

 

Every country should try to strive to be self sufficient anyway.  At least feed and energize themselves.  Part of what is wrong with today.  To many people depend on other, thus making it easy to 'control' people.  

 

Keep them in the dark and feed 'em <deleted>.   Humans got the brains of a mushroom 

I understand what you're saying. Self sufficient countries. But the world is now global, and it might not be so easy to go back. Sure, globalism can be rolled back somewhat, but that's about it.  Whether you know it or not, you're still dependent upon it.  

 

There are some parts of the planet that have indigenous populations with no prior contact to civilization. They might as well be living in the Stone Age. But that's not you.  

 

 

[KhunLA]

50 minutes ago, jas007 said:

I understand what you're saying. Self sufficient countries. But the world is now global, and it might not be so easy to go back. Sure, globalism can be rolled back somewhat, but that's about it.  Whether you know it or not, you're still dependent upon it.  

 

There are some parts of the planet that have indigenous populations with no prior contact to civilization. They might as well be living in the Stone Age. But that's not you.  

At this point, not really.  There's nothing outside my '15 min city' that I need, or that isn't sourced in Thailand, or even PKK province.

 

Plenty of local food grown, and surf is walking distance for protein and even drinking water, if needed.  Easy enough to desalinate, though we have 12 X 2000 L water tanks.  Don't think we'll ever be without water.

 

There's nothing outside of the village, 'downtown', province or TH that we need.  And we haven't even utilized the other two lots for anything.  Just an investment, and wife only has a few flowering plants on them.

 

We grow a few things, we can't eat fast enough, so give to neighbor, who does the same with us.  It's just a hobby for both of us, and far from using the lots' potential for growing things.   

 

If one of us had chickens, we wouldn't even have to go to the market 

 

Actually surprised how easy it would be to be completely independent, if ever needed to be.  No winter here, so a small farming village, would be easy to live year round, without any outside assistance.

 

My other neighbor is raising some beef, cows.   All we need is a pig farmer, hopefully, further down the road  

[candide]

Related news!

 

Why is the Fed quietly buying billions in bonds — and hoping nobody notices?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-fed-quietly-buying-billions-112500917.html

 

[jas007]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

At this point, not really.  There's nothing outside my '15 min city' that I need, or that isn't sourced in Thailand, or even PKK province.

 

Plenty of local food grown, and surf is walking distance for protein and even drinking water, if needed.  Easy enough to desalinate, though we have 12 X 2000 L water tanks.  Don't think we'll ever be without water.

 

There's nothing outside of the village, 'downtown', province or TH that we need.  And we haven't even utilized the other two lots for anything.  Just an investment, and wife only has a few flowering plants on them.

 

We grow a few things, we can't eat fast enough, so give to neighbor, who does the same with us.  It's just a hobby for both of us, and far from using the lots' potential for growing things.   

 

If one of us had chickens, we wouldn't even have to go to the market 

And what do you do for money?  How do you pay whatever bills you have? 

 

Let's assume that, beginning in a few hours, you had no access to the internet, no access to ATMs, and no one would be depositing any money into your accounts ever again, especially from any source in America or any source reliant on Central Bank functionality.  Maybe you could barter with the neighbors.  Maybe trade a few of your chickens for some rice or whatever.  And you had to go to bed when there sun went down, because there is no electric grid and no electricity. Unless of course, you have some sort of solar electric supply, but even that requires batteries that can hold a charge and occasionally need replacement. 

 

Could you handle all that?

 

[KhunLA]

57 minutes ago, jas007 said:

And what do you do for money?  How do you pay whatever bills you have? 

 

Let's assume that, beginning in a few hours, you had no access to the internet, no access to ATMs, and no one would be depositing any money into your accounts ever again, especially from any source in America or any source reliant on Central Bank functionality.  Maybe you could barter with the neighbors.  Maybe trade a few of your chickens for some rice or whatever.  And you had to go to bed when there sun went down, because there is no electric grid and no electricity. Unless of course, you have some sort of solar electric supply, but even that requires batteries that can hold a charge and occasionally need replacement. 

 

Could you handle all that?

That, would be the least of our problems, have more than enough.  Especially since, we have no bills, except phone & internet, and car insurance, which we really don't need. 

 

USA ... Not much there in IRAs, but I don't need any funds at USA, or Soc Sec.   Matter of fact, my SS could end tomorrow, and I'd have no problem staying in TH, till I crapped out.  What little time that's going to be

 

Wife already has her retirement fund, and me, a very nice oops fund.

 

We have solar & BEVs.   And living on a bartering system wouldn't be a problem if currency was useless.  Especially after 1 growing season.  As I said, 2 lots we have are empty now.

 

None of this was planned, it just sort of happened.  Wife's hobby is gardening & growing food.  Along with seamstress, and can make anything.  Got a storage room full of material.  She makes almost all our clothes now.

 

Me, I just hate monopolies, (PEA & big oil), hence the solar & BEVs.  Without those 2 bills, I'm amazed how lttle we need to spend to live on.   I actually banked all of my Soc Sec last year, and we lived on the pittance of my pension.   Almost 2 yrs in a row, I didn't need Soc Sec, and I use the deposit method for retirement extensions, so not exactly pocket change.  All went into her retirement account, along with buying those 2 lots, we ain't using.

 

I am 70 yrs old, and 35 yrs of working & investing, so have a wee bit to show for it.  I had no kids, and a DINK when married in USA.  Haven't carried a bank note, or interest payment in over 40 years.

[Digitalbanana]

On Friday (16 May) after the market closed, Moodys announced that they have downgraded the US Debt Credit Rating from Aaa to Aa1. Will US stocks crash on Monday on this news? 

 

Previous two instances... On Aug 5 2011, when S&P downgraded US debt, the S&P 500 ($SPX) dropped 10.37% in 41 trading days.  12 months later, $SPX was up +36% 

 

On Aug 1 2023, when Fitch downgraded US debt, the S&P 500 ($SPX) dropped 10.31% in 58 trading days. 12 months later, $SPX was up +37%

 

Go figure.

[cjinchiangrai]

Once everyone sells their T-bills and start trading oil in Euros and Yuan, the collapse will really kick in. Trump is a moron and it is not Bidens fault.

[jas007]

48 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

That, would be the least of our problems, have more than enough.  Especially since, we have no bills, except phone & internet, and car insurance, which we really don't need. 

 

USA ... Not much there in IRAs, but I don't need any funds at USA, or Soc Sec.   Matter of fact, my SS could end tomorrow, and I'd have no problem staying in TH, till I crapped out.  What little time that's going to be

 

Wife already has her retirement fund, and me, a very nice oops fund.

 

We have solar & BEVs.   And living on a bartering system wouldn't be a problem if currency was useless.  Especially after 1 growing season.  As I said, 2 lots we have are empty now.

 

None of this was planned, it just sort of happened.  Wife's hobby is gardening & growing food.  Along with seamstress, and can make anything.  Got a storage room full of material.  She makes almost all our clothes now.

 

Me, I just hate monopolies, (PEA & big oil), hence the solar & BEVs.  Without those 2 bills, I'm amazed how lttle we need to spend to live on.   I actually banked all of my Soc Sec last year, and we lived on the pittance of my pension.   Almost 2 yrs in a row, I didn't need Soc Sec, and I use the deposit method for retirement extensions, so not exactly pocket change.  All went into her retirement account, along with buying those 2 lots, we ain't using.

 

I am 70 yrs old, and 35 yrs of working & investing, so have a wee bit to show for it.  I had no kids, and a DINK when married in USA.  Haven't carried a bank note, or interest payment in over 40 years.

I understand. You may be right, but I think I have a point as well. Extreme maybe, but possible.

 

Do you take medicine?  Do you need anything made of plastic?  Do you consume anything that was transported to your place?  Where does your pension come from and how is it paid?  What if your Thai bank account was worthless and could no longer be accessed?  

 

People seem to think they can disconnect from an irrelevant grid while the grid continues to function, providing them with banking services, medicines, and other of life's necessities.  We saw how that played out in America, during COVID.  People with office jobs stayed home and played around online, collecting their stimulus money and paychecks.  And yet some people continued to work, collecting the garbage, driving the trucks, keeping the power grid operational, picking the crops, and so on.  Everyone pretended that wasn't happening, but those people were there, keeping the world from collapsing.  Many of them illegals who had np real choice.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TedG]

On 5/16/2025 at 8:17 PM, Tug said:

Well moodeys just downgraded our credit rating…..so much winning,wonder who trump is going to blame this on.

1) I’m not a fan of Moodeys, they were selling credit rating which help lead to the 2008 housing bust.

2) This down grade was a few decades in the making.  

[TedG]

On 5/16/2025 at 9:24 PM, Tug said:

It happened on trumps watch he owns it.all stop but that being said he will try to weasel out of any responsibility….perhaps adding 23% to our debt during his first fiasco might have a tiny bit to do with it ehh?

You do think this just happen because of Trump?  

[TedG]

On 5/16/2025 at 9:45 PM, RuamRudy said:

 

Of a total electorate of 186.5 million people, he received 77.3 million votes. 58% of Americans did not support him. That gives me hope. 

 

You are making up numbers. 

[TedG]

On 5/16/2025 at 10:23 PM, HappyExpat57 said:

Current administration is ALREADY blaming it on Obama and Clinton. This is just another weak attempt at avoiding accepting the truth. By any metric, the US economy was doing GREAT until January this year.

 

I wonder what happened to cause such a weakening of the economy?

The dems have built a government that we can’t afford.  That is a problem.  

[TedG]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The US deeply and richly deserves this downgrade in the credit rating, they are hugely unreliable at this point in time and cannot be trusted. They have the great misfortune of a highly unstable, fanatical and at least partially insane leader. 

 

What do you mean by “unreliable” at this point? 

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[KhunLA]

42 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Do you take medicine?  Do you need anything made of plastic?  Do you consume anything that was transported to your place?  Where does your pension come from and how is it paid?  What if your Thai bank account was worthless and could no longer be accessed?  

A what if scenario, that isn't going to happen in out life time ... but to answer...

 

no, no, no, pension is irrelevant, as don't need.  If BBL not accessible, answered below already ... aside from food, people need clothes.

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

We have solar & BEVs.   And living on a bartering system wouldn't be a problem if currency was useless.  Especially after 1 growing season.  As I said, 2 lots we have are empty now.  

 

Wife's hobby is gardening & growing food.  Along with seamstress, and can make anything.  Got a storage room full of material.  She makes almost all our clothes now.