Fun Quiz > Covid-19 mRNA Vax harm denial - At which stage are you?

[Red Phoenix]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

... anyone who disagrees with your insanely idiotic delusion is just a “parrot” for the mainstream media?

Wow, what a tired, flimsy excuse for an argument. “I don’t believe the conspiracists, so you’re an MSM parrot”  is what you are saying... the sheer idiocy of that non-sequitur defies belief.

 

Meanwhile, you’re the real gem - a full-on anti-vax zealot regurgitating neurotic, debunked quackery straight from the bottom-feeders of pseudoscience websites. You tout “your own research” that somehow contradicts the entire global consensus of millions of trained medical professionals and virologists who’ve actually studied the science firsthand.

 

Apparently, you and a tiny clique of like-minded fantasists are the enlightened few - and the countless experts who dedicate their lives to medicine are all just hopelessly wrong. Not me - them.

 

You've claimed viruses do not exist. Then you've contradicted yourself and claimed 'pathogenic viruses don't exist'...  

 

his endless, circular dance is utterly pathetic. I’m here solely to challenge the ridiculous and dangerous claims you make—because people like you actively pose a public health hazard with the neurotic, ill-informed, anti-authoritarian, and delusional misinformation you peddle.

 

Do I smell a bot? 

The unique user-name 'Richard Smith' with the One Eye of Mordor profile, ... 

Together with the swollen prose of his comments, while displaying his 'I am OK, you are not OK' superiority sciency stance,

 

[transam]

Just now, dinsdale said:

Alas in the beginning of this the ability to post actual supported evidence on here for example was restricted to only that which supported the narrative and any challenge to the narrative would come with a barrage "your a conspiracy theorist" (still happens even now) or posts removed.

Eh.........?  

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

That's why you read all you can on a subject and decide for yourself, after looking at the facts and no opinions. I also want to know what these vaccines can do, as I've had four. I don't see any obvious side effects, but everyone's a little different in health habits, lifestyle, genetics and age. No one ever knows if they really need a vaccine until they die from a certain disease, one that could have been avoided by taking that vaccine. I trust very few until they're proven, as money can buy anything. 

 

The real issue isn’t just the arguments, but who is spewing them.

 

Sure, we could just walk away - but that leaves the door wide open for a festering Anti-vax echo chamber, filled with deluded nitwits who simply will not recognise any degree of scientific fact that doesn't suit their rhetoric.

 

....And while I normally avoid dragging unrelated nonsense into the conversation, it’s no coincidence that the same clowns shouting about vaccines also believe the Earth is flat and reject basic science altogether.

 

Trying to reason with these people is like debating screaming lunatics locked in an asylum - there’s zero chance of an actual discussion when their default answer is “MSM lies,” “viruses don’t exist,” and “vaccines are poison.” It’s not just futile, it’s a grotesque waste of time engaging with that level of idiocy - but there should be a voice to counter this idiocy, even on fora such as this.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Do I smell a bot? 

The unique user-name 'Richard Smith' with the One Eye of Mordor profile, ... 

Together with the swollen prose of his comments, while displaying his 'I am OK, you are not OK' superiority sciency stance,

 

I think you now know you have been found out..........🤔

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

Alas in the beginning of this the ability to post actual supported evidence on here for example was restricted to only that which supported the narrative and any challenge to the narrative would come with a barrage "your a conspiracy theorist" (still happens even now) or posts removed.

When someone is on one side of the coin no matter what, they are either hero worshipers, loyal to the core, are lacking knowledge, or blind to being corrected.

 

I asked for proof in the beginning and was offered some, so it may or nor may not be true, but it brings speculation.

 

As I stated, I took 4 vaccines, and a variety, so of course I was worried about possible side effects, but I was a lot more worried about dying from this crap disease, so I got them. I had Covid at least 3 times, and minor symptoms, so who knows if the vaccine helped or wasn't necessary, at least for me.

 

It's okay to legitimately argue both sides, as long as it doesn't get out of hand where name calling starts, and back and forth defense and attacks happen. I know quite a lot about certain subjects I'm passionate about, and little about others, the same as everyone else.

 

The OP is totally against at least the Covid vaccine, which is okay but trying to force your beliefs on others doesn't work and can be dangerous, as some , even in our age group, can be convinced something they really need won't work.  and another here doesn't believe diseases or viruses exists, and that your body can fight these non existent diseases and viruses the natural way anyway, which is very strange thinking. 

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Do I smell a bot? 

The unique user-name 'Richard Smith' with the One Eye of Mordor profile, ... 

Together with the swollen prose of his comments, while displaying his 'I am OK, you are not OK' superiority sciency stance,

 

 

I do agree with you...   I am displaying an "I am OK, you are not OK" stance of superiority....

....  a flaw in my personality perhaps, especially when faced with the ridiculousness of undeniable blind idiocy... 

 

....But how could one not feel somewhat superior when confronted with the mindless drivel of an anti-vax zealot who parrots neurotic, debunked nonsense pulled straight from the cesspit of pseudoscience websites?

 

.... So, according to you, the entire global community of virologists and doctors is corrupt and clueless, the science is wrong...  and anyone who disagrees is just a “bot”.... 

 

Do you smell a bot ???...  nope thats just the stench of you basking in the putrid reek of festering idiocy - I really thought you would have been immune to it by now !!!... 

 

 

[fredwiggy]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The real issue isn’t just the arguments, but who is spewing them.

 

Sure, we could just walk away - but that leaves the door wide open for a festering Anti-vax echo chamber, filled with deluded nitwits who simply will not recognise any degree of scientific fact that doesn't suit their rhetoric.

 

....And while I normally avoid dragging unrelated nonsense into the conversation, it’s no coincidence that the same clowns shouting about vaccines also believe the Earth is flat and reject basic science altogether.

 

Trying to reason with these people is like debating screaming lunatics locked in an asylum - there’s zero chance of an actual discussion when their default answer is “MSM lies,” “viruses don’t exist,” and “vaccines are poison.” It’s not just futile, it’s a grotesque waste of time engaging with that level of idiocy - but there should be a voice to counter this idiocy, even on fora such as this.

Exactly, and I get called naive a few times trying to prove another wrong in their approach, and then comes the inevitable attacks in other topics, followed by the negative emojis, even if I state the sun came out today. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, fredwiggy said:

When someone is on one side of the coin no matter what, they are either hero worshipers, loyal to the core, are lacking knowledge, or blind to being corrected.

 

I asked for proof in the beginning and was offered some, so it may or nor may not be true, but it brings speculation.

 

As I stated, I took 4 vaccines, and a variety, so of course I was worried about possible side effects, but I was a lot more worried about dying from this crap disease, so I got them. I had Covid at least 3 times, and minor symptoms, so who knows if the vaccine helped or wasn't necessary, at least for me.

 

It's okay to legitimately argue both sides, as long as it doesn't get out of hand where name calling starts, and back and forth defense and attacks happen. I know quite a lot about certain subjects I'm passionate about, and little about others, the same as everyone else.

 

The OP is totally against at least the Covid vaccine, which is okay but trying to force your beliefs on others doesn't work and can be dangerous, as some , even in our age group, can be convinced something they really need won't work.  and another here doesn't believe diseases or viruses exists, and that your body can fight these non existent diseases and viruses the natural way anyway, which is very strange thinking. 

These people actually cause death because of people being taken in by them..

The OP is dangerous.........🤔

[Stiddle Mump]

22 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You've claimed viruses do not exist. Then you've contradicted yourself and claimed 'pathogenic viruses don't exist

A virus - could exist as it is simply cell-debris - and is indistinguishable from other fragments. It's probably useful in helping the body cleanse itself.

 

BUT!! What I'm saying, is that a virus has NEVER been isolated and found to cause any ill effects on animals or humans. Viruses are not a pathogenic entity.

 

Dr Daniel Roytas wrote a book about it; 'Can You Catch a Cold'. He went through all the studies and experiments of the last 150 years and reported.

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

[dinsdale]

15 minutes ago, transam said:

Eh.........?  

Careful. You'll wear out that intellectually superior brain of yours with such well thought out responses. A rest and a nice cup of tea might be in order.

[transam]

Just now, dinsdale said:

Careful. You'll wear out that intellectually superior brain of yours with such well thought out responses. A rest and a nice cup of tea might be in order.

No, your post was nonsense...............🙄

[richard_smith237]

Just now, transam said:

These people actually cause death because of people being taken in by them..

The OP is dangerous.........🤔

 

Censorship is far more dangerous than the chaos of free speech. The true challenge with free speech is that it carries the responsibility of accuracy - and the willingness to be questioned.

 

That’s why, even as I vehemently oppose the views of the likes of RedPhoenix, StiddleMump, and RattleSnake, I fully support their right to speak - as long as my equal right to respond with sharp critique and ridicule is respected.

 

These threads belong in the “off the beaten path” forum, an appropriate place for such fringe debates.

 

While I consider this topic utter lunacy, discussions around the origins of SARS-CoV-2 have appeared here and in related threads - and those conversations must also be allowed.

 

I’m not one to decide what’s acceptable and what isn’t; everyone should have the freedom to discuss anything - and the freedom to respond as they see fit.

 

My weakness? I have almost zero tolerance for fools, and I make no apologies for it. Inevitably, I get dragged into these debates, reluctantly giving oxygen to a level of idiocy that, by better judgment, should be left to suffocate in the anoxic depths of bottom-feeding rot—where such nonsense truly belongs, in my humble opinion.

 

(apologies Red if the swollen prose is too 'bot-like' for you !!!!)

 

 

 

 

[fredwiggy]

8 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

A virus - could exist as it is simply cell-debris - and is indistinguishable from other fragments. It's probably useful in helping the body cleanse itself.

 

BUT!! What I'm saying, is that a virus has NEVER been isolated and found to cause any ill effects on animals or humans. Viruses are not a pathogenic entity.

 

Dr Daniel Roytas wrote a book about it; 'Can You Catch a Cold'. He went through all the studies and experiments of the last 150 years and reported.

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

Viruses can't hurt humans?  https://www2.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk/viruswars/viruses.php........................Nature does have many things that can help us naturally, but some things don't respond to natural methods quickly enough. .And until then, science has saved many lives.............https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20433575/.

[dinsdale]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

No, your post was nonsense...............🙄

So you're saying censorship wasn't put in place to protect the narrative? Even Zuckerberg admitted to this.

[Quentin Zen]

On 6/5/2025 at 8:38 AM, Red Phoenix said:

The 15 stages of mRNA denial

if you are interested in the 15 stages of mRNA denial then you likely NEED to read the following

 

Potential Indicators of Mental Health Issues (not a legal insanity defense):

Here's a more descriptive list, drawing from various sources, that could be used as a checklist to consider:

• Emotional Changes:

  • Persistent sadness or hopelessness: Feeling worthless, easily upset, crying frequently, or having thoughts of death or suicide. 
     
  • Irritability or anger: Excessive anger or rage, easily triggered. 
     
  • Anxiety or excessive worry: Feeling constantly anxious, fearful, or unable to relax. 
     
  • Changes in mood: Significant shifts in mood, including extreme highs or lows, or mood swings. 
     
• Behavioral Changes:

  • Withdrawal or isolation: Avoiding social activities, preferring solitude, or neglecting self-care. 
     
  • Changes in sleep or appetite: Insomnia, excessive sleep, or significant changes in appetite or weight. 
     
  • Difficulty concentrating or remembering things: Poor focus, memory problems, or trouble following conversations. 
     
  • Lack of motivation: Feeling drained, unable to do things, or losing interest in activities once enjoyed. 
     
  • Changes in personal hygiene: Neglecting personal grooming or appearance. 
     
  • Substance use: Increased alcohol or drug use as a coping mechanism. 
     
• Cognitive Changes:

  • Unusual thoughts or beliefs: Hearing voices, seeing things that others don't, or having fixed, irrational beliefs. 
     
  • Difficulty with logic or reasoning: Making illogical statements or having trouble understanding simple concepts. 
     
  • Hallucinations or delusions: Experiencing sensory perceptions that aren't real (hallucinations) or having strongly held, false beliefs (delusions). 
     
• Physical Changes:

  • Unexplained physical ailments: Chronic pain, headaches, or other physical symptoms without a clear cause. 
     
  • Fatigue: Feeling unusually tired or lacking energy. 
     
• Social Changes:

  • Problems with relationships: Difficulties maintaining relationships, conflicts, or feeling isolated. 
     
  • Changes in work or school performance: Difficulty concentrating or completing tasks at work or school. 
     

Important Considerations:

• This list is not exhaustive:

  Mental health issues can manifest in various ways, and the symptoms can vary from person to person. 

   
• Not all symptoms indicate a mental illness:

  Many of these symptoms can also be related to other factors, such as grief, stress, or physical illness. 

   
• Seek professional help:

  If you or someone you know is experiencing a significant number of these symptoms, it's crucial to seek professional help from a mental health professional. 

   

Legal Note: The legal concept of "insanity" is different from the term used to describe mental health issues. The legal definition focuses on a person's ability to understand the nature and quality of their actions and the wrongfulness of their behavior at the time of a crime. A person may be found not guilty by reason of insanity if they can demonstrate that they were legally insane at the time of the crime, meaning they were unable to understand the nature and quality of their actions or the wrongfulness of their behavior. This is a complex legal concept and should be discussed with a legal professional. 

 

 

[transam]

Just now, dinsdale said:

So you're saying censorship wasn't put in place to protect the narrative? Even Zuckerberg admitted to this.

Eh, what are you on about now............. 

You making up stories again..........?

 

Now let me tell you a story, which I quite like, because of your stance, you have had Covid at least 8 times..........😂

 

And you're telling us not to do this, not to do that..........😂

 

Now come on, you must see the funny side............🤭

[Red Phoenix]

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

When someone is on one side of the coin no matter what, they are either hero worshipers, loyal to the core, are lacking knowledge, or blind to being corrected.

 

I asked for proof in the beginning and was offered some, so it may or nor may not be true, but it brings speculation.

 

As I stated, I took 4 vaccines, and a variety, so of course I was worried about possible side effects, but I was a lot more worried about dying from this crap disease, so I got them. I had Covid at least 3 times, and minor symptoms, so who knows if the vaccine helped or wasn't necessary, at least for me.

 

It's okay to legitimately argue both sides, as long as it doesn't get out of hand where name calling starts, and back and forth defense and attacks happen. I know quite a lot about certain subjects I'm passionate about, and little about others, the same as everyone else.

 

The OP is totally against at least the Covid vaccine, which is okay but trying to force your beliefs on others doesn't work and can be dangerous, as some , even in our age group, can be convinced something they really need won't work.  and another here doesn't believe diseases or viruses exists, and that your body can fight these non existent diseases and viruses the natural way anyway, which is very strange thinking. 

 

I provided a Thumbs Up on your last two posts, as I appreciate your attempt to bring back some civility in the discussion.  

Contrary to what some here accuse me of, I have no problem with people that have a different view (but obviously I do not like the name-calling and insults, which are a discussion-killer).. 

Like any sensible human being my beliefs and convictions are not carved in stone, and I am open to reason and will not a priori dismiss facts and evidence that casts doubts on my views.

That said I have not come across any evidence that made me reconsider my take on vaccines.

[fredwiggy]

4 minutes ago, Quentin Zen said:

if you are interested in the 15 stages of mRNA denial then you likely NEED to read the following

 

Potential Indicators of Mental Health Issues (not a legal insanity defense):

Here's a more descriptive list, drawing from various sources, that could be used as a checklist to consider:

• Emotional Changes:

  • Persistent sadness or hopelessness: Feeling worthless, easily upset, crying frequently, or having thoughts of death or suicide. 
     
  • Irritability or anger: Excessive anger or rage, easily triggered. 
     
  • Anxiety or excessive worry: Feeling constantly anxious, fearful, or unable to relax. 
     
  • Changes in mood: Significant shifts in mood, including extreme highs or lows, or mood swings. 
     
• Behavioral Changes:

  • Withdrawal or isolation: Avoiding social activities, preferring solitude, or neglecting self-care. 
     
  • Changes in sleep or appetite: Insomnia, excessive sleep, or significant changes in appetite or weight. 
     
  • Difficulty concentrating or remembering things: Poor focus, memory problems, or trouble following conversations. 
     
  • Lack of motivation: Feeling drained, unable to do things, or losing interest in activities once enjoyed. 
     
  • Changes in personal hygiene: Neglecting personal grooming or appearance. 
     
  • Substance use: Increased alcohol or drug use as a coping mechanism. 
     
• Cognitive Changes:

  • Unusual thoughts or beliefs: Hearing voices, seeing things that others don't, or having fixed, irrational beliefs. 
     
  • Difficulty with logic or reasoning: Making illogical statements or having trouble understanding simple concepts. 
     
  • Hallucinations or delusions: Experiencing sensory perceptions that aren't real (hallucinations) or having strongly held, false beliefs (delusions). 
     
• Physical Changes:

  • Unexplained physical ailments: Chronic pain, headaches, or other physical symptoms without a clear cause. 
     
  • Fatigue: Feeling unusually tired or lacking energy. 
     
• Social Changes:

  • Problems with relationships: Difficulties maintaining relationships, conflicts, or feeling isolated. 
     
  • Changes in work or school performance: Difficulty concentrating or completing tasks at work or school. 
     

Important Considerations:

• This list is not exhaustive:

  Mental health issues can manifest in various ways, and the symptoms can vary from person to person. 

   
• Not all symptoms indicate a mental illness:

  Many of these symptoms can also be related to other factors, such as grief, stress, or physical illness. 

   
• Seek professional help:

  If you or someone you know is experiencing a significant number of these symptoms, it's crucial to seek professional help from a mental health professional. 

   

Legal Note: The legal concept of "insanity" is different from the term used to describe mental health issues. The legal definition focuses on a person's ability to understand the nature and quality of their actions and the wrongfulness of their behavior at the time of a crime. A person may be found not guilty by reason of insanity if they can demonstrate that they were legally insane at the time of the crime, meaning they were unable to understand the nature and quality of their actions or the wrongfulness of their behavior. This is a complex legal concept and should be discussed with a legal professional. 

 

 

Those are symptoms of Anhedonia, a symptom of depression. 

[richard_smith237]

18 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

A virus - could exist as it is simply cell-debris - and is indistinguishable from other fragments. It's probably useful in helping the body cleanse itself.

 

BUT!! What I'm saying, is that a virus has NEVER been isolated and found to cause any ill effects on animals or humans. Viruses are not a pathogenic entity.

 

Dr Daniel Roytas wrote a book about it; 'Can You Catch a Cold'. He went through all the studies and experiments of the last 150 years and reported.

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

 

 

Dr Daniel Roytas holds a Master’s in Human Nutrition. He is neither a medical doctor, virologist, nor practising clinician. Yet, curiously, he’s presented as some sort of authoritative voice on infectious disease - despite lacking any qualification remotely relevant to that field.

 

I wonder if, when bitten by a rabid dog, he would refuse the rabies vaccine in favour of “terrain optimisation”, or reject antibiotics during a bout of bacterial meningitis - presumably trusting his internal environment to fend off pathogens he doesn’t seem to believe cause disease.

 

There’s a critical difference between considering terrain theory as part of a broader understanding of health and misusing it to dismantle germ theory and, by extension, modern medicine.

 

What you've done is take a potentially valuable insight - that internal health matters—and attempted to use it as a blunt instrument to reject virology wholesale. That’s not balance, that’s intellectual malpractice.

 

For clarity: I’m not against exploring terrain theory. But to adopt it as the sole framework, while dismissing vaccines, antibiotics, and the entire field of virology, is not just unscientific - it’s recklessly foolish.

 

I’ve ridiculed your anti-vax stance not because it’s radical, but because its just so flawed at a basic level. 

 

 

That said, I’ve given your comments on Dr Roytas and terrain theory due consideration, as you've managed to thread  plausibility into an otherwise tangled mess of distortions and falsehoods.

 

 

[Lacessit]

12 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Viruses can't hurt humans?  https://www2.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk/viruswars/viruses.php........................Nature does have many things that can help us naturally, but some things don't respond to natural methods quickly enough. .And until then, science has saved many lives.............https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20433575/.

You should ignore a poster who denies the existence of what is readily seen and discriminated with a scanning electron microscope.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

I provided a Thumbs Up on your last two posts, as I appreciate your attempt to bring back some civility in the discussion.  

Contrary to what some here accuse me of, I have no problem with people that have a different view (but obviously I do not like the name-calling and insults, which are a discussion-killer).. 

Like any sensible human being my beliefs and convictions are not carved in stone, and I am open to reason and will not a priori dismiss facts and evidence that casts doubts on my views.

That said I have not come across any evidence that made me reconsider my take on vaccines.

You are a danger to others, think about that.......🤔

[dinsdale]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Eh, what are you on about now............. 

You making up stories again..........?

 

Now let me tell you a story, which I quite like, because of your stance, you have had Covid at least 8 times..........😂

 

And you're telling us not to do this, not to do that..........😂

 

Now come on, you must see the funny side............🤭

Once again a brilliant example of how you never answer questions and simply divert and troll. I'll give you one thing and that's consistency. 

[Stiddle Mump]

15 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I asked for proof in the beginning and was offered some, so it may or nor may not be true, but it brings speculation.

If I insisted that it was hundreds of alligators barking and hundreds of elephants in the sky crying that caused rain and thunder, you might well ask (quite rightly) how I know that to be true. If I can't supply the evidence (which I'm unlikely to be able to do) then my hypothesis is debunked.

 

By the same token; when a virologist makes a claim (that a virus has been isolated for instance) one would expect to see some evidence. There is NONE. Plenty of antiscientific nonsense and fraud though. If I could see some proof, then I would rethink my position; that is;;;; pathogenic viruses do not exist.

 

Bit like someone saying that a god made everything, and you say you do not agree. You wouldn't reasonably be expected to prove a god didn't. You might say; how do you know? Then that person, making the claim, points to a bible and says; that's all the proof you need. But you are not convinced.

 

Much of what we think we know just aint so.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

That said I have not come across any evidence that made me reconsider my take on vaccines.

 

Do you think you 'could' come across any evidence that makes you reconsider your take on vaccines, or would your bias automatically debunk and such information as fake, false, not reviewed, politically motivated, influenced by big-Pharma etc... 

 

i.e. Do you really believe that you could be open minded enough to accept that vaccines have saved lives, ever ?

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

If I insisted that it was hundreds of alligators barking and hundreds of elephants in the sky crying that caused rain and thunder, you might well ask (quite rightly) how I know that to be true. If I can't supply the evidence (which I'm unlikely to be able to do) then my hypothesis is debunked.

 

By the same token; when a virologist makes a claim (that a virus has been isolated for instance) one would expect to see some evidence. There is NONE. Plenty of antiscientific nonsense and fraud though. If I could see some proof, then I would rethink my position; that is;;;; pathogenic viruses do not exist.

 

Bit like someone saying that a god made everything, and you say you do not agree. You wouldn't reasonably be expected to prove a god didn't. You might say; how do you know? Then that person, making the claim, points to a bible and says; that's all the proof you need. But you are not convinced.

 

Much of what we think we know just aint so.

Sounds a tad scientific to me.............https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/nursing-and-health-professions/virus-isolation

[transam]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

Once again a brilliant example of how you never answer questions and simply divert and troll. I'll give you one thing and that's consistency. 

Again, you have nothing, completely dismiss what I posted because it has shown you to be a little off course........🤭

But you are good fun for the laughs........

[fredwiggy]

3 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

If I insisted that it was hundreds of alligators barking and hundreds of elephants in the sky crying that caused rain and thunder, you might well ask (quite rightly) how I know that to be true. If I can't supply the evidence (which I'm unlikely to be able to do) then my hypothesis is debunked.

 

By the same token; when a virologist makes a claim (that a virus has been isolated for instance) one would expect to see some evidence. There is NONE. Plenty of antiscientific nonsense and fraud though. If I could see some proof, then I would rethink my position; that is;;;; pathogenic viruses do not exist.

 

Bit like someone saying that a god made everything, and you say you do not agree. You wouldn't reasonably be expected to prove a god didn't. You might say; how do you know? Then that person, making the claim, points to a bible and says; that's all the proof you need. But you are not convinced.

 

Much of what we think we know just aint so.

As does this.............https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32006706/.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

If I insisted that it was hundreds of alligators barking and hundreds of elephants in the sky crying that caused rain and thunder, you might well ask (quite rightly) how I know that to be true. If I can't supply the evidence (which I'm unlikely to be able to do) then my hypothesis is debunked.

 

By the same token; when a virologist makes a claim (that a virus has been isolated for instance) one would expect to see some evidence. There is NONE. Plenty of antiscientific nonsense and fraud though. If I could see some proof, then I would rethink my position; that is;;;; pathogenic viruses do not exist.

 

Bit like someone saying that a god made everything, and you say you do not agree. You wouldn't reasonably be expected to prove a god didn't. You might say; how do you know? Then that person, making the claim, points to a bible and says; that's all the proof you need. But you are not convinced.

 

Much of what we think we know just aint so.

 

Your alligator-elephant-rain analogy isn’t just absurd - it’s an insult to logic. It’s a textbook example of a false equivalence, where a completely fantastical, deliberately ridiculous claim is held up as somehow equivalent to an entire field of rigorous, peer-reviewed scientific research.

 

You’re trying to discredit virology by comparing it to imaginary sky-beasts - which is not only logically bankrupt, it’s embarrassingly juvenile. If you think “I made up something silly, therefore science is silly too” is a valid line of reasoning, you’re not making an argument, you’re showcasing a spectacular failure to understand how evidence, expertise, and basic reasoning work.

 

Analogies are meant to clarify ideas, not drag them into the intellectual gutter and beat them with the stupid stick.

[fredwiggy]

7 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

If I insisted that it was hundreds of alligators barking and hundreds of elephants in the sky crying that caused rain and thunder, you might well ask (quite rightly) how I know that to be true. If I can't supply the evidence (which I'm unlikely to be able to do) then my hypothesis is debunked.

 

By the same token; when a virologist makes a claim (that a virus has been isolated for instance) one would expect to see some evidence. There is NONE. Plenty of antiscientific nonsense and fraud though. If I could see some proof, then I would rethink my position; that is;;;; pathogenic viruses do not exist.

 

Bit like someone saying that a god made everything, and you say you do not agree. You wouldn't reasonably be expected to prove a god didn't. You might say; how do you know? Then that person, making the claim, points to a bible and says; that's all the proof you need. But you are not convinced.

 

Much of what we think we know just aint so.

And these, from Wikipedia...........https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathogen ...........Healthline........https://www.healthline.com/health/what-is-a-pathogen

[Stiddle Mump]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Dr Daniel Roytas holds a Master’s in Human Nutrition. He is neither a medical doctor, virologist, nor practising clinician. Yet, curiously, he’s presented as some sort of authoritative voice on infectious disease - despite lacking any qualification remotely relevant to that field.

The Doctor has spent years researching the medical papers for 150 yeas. Can he not be given credit for that in your eyes. His book 'Can You Catch a Cold' report on those experiments. Well worth a read Richard. Interesting findings.

 

As for qualifications; give me an honest researcher any day over a fraudulent doctor.