787: "I've been around for 14 years and never crashed!"

 

Rajesh: "Hold my beer."

14 minutes ago, TedG said:

It's the government doing something.  They are asking them, looking for something without knowing what to look for. 

I disagree. It does seem like they're focusing on power/thrust/engine related issues.

Just now, BLMFem said:

I disagree. It does seem like they're focusing on power/thrust/engine related issues.

I dono I’m still thinking it’s related to the flaps hot day…air density I don’t know the altitude at that airport that could be a factor.regardless it looks like once she got out of ground affect she quit flying and settled back in sad 😞 another theory is that when the pilot in command called for gear up the other pilot pulled the flap lever by accident 😞 we will find out soon enough my condolences to the bereaved.I don’t think it was a flaw with the aircraft though.

5 minutes ago, Tug said:

I dono I’m still thinking it’s related to the flaps hot day…air density I don’t know the altitude at that airport that could be a factor.regardless it looks like once she got out of ground affect she quit flying and settled back in sad 😞 another theory is that when the pilot in command called for gear up the other pilot pulled the flap lever by accident 😞 we will find out soon enough my condolences to the bereaved.I don’t think it was a flaw with the aircraft though.

But neither of those would explain the RAT being deployed as it seems like it was.

All speculation though but that is pretty well thought out and presented in the video above.

If the RAT really was deployed then it's looking more like an aircraft problem than human error.

7 minutes ago, Tug said:

I dono I’m still thinking it’s related to the flaps hot day…air density I don’t know the altitude at that airport that could be a factor.regardless it looks like once she got out of ground affect she quit flying and settled back in sad 😞 another theory is that when the pilot in command called for gear up the other pilot pulled the flap lever by accident 😞 we will find out soon enough my condolences to the bereaved.I don’t think it was a flaw with the aircraft though.

Unless the writer of the REUTERS article got it wrong it definitively seems like they're focusing on engine/thrust issues, and with one engine type in particular. 

18 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Unless the writer of the REUTERS article got it wrong it definitively seems like they're focusing on engine/thrust issues, and with one engine type in particular. 

I think that's more India wanting that as a reason than reality.

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I think that's more India wanting that as a reason than reality.

You could say the opposite is more the US/Boeing wanting it to be pilot error rather than reality.

Both equally speculative. But because of the RAT deployment (if true but the evidence looks compelling as it is at the moment) then definitely looking more like a mechanical / engineering issue.

1 hour ago, BLMFem said:

I disagree. It does seem like they're focusing on power/thrust/engine related issues.

 

They do not know the cause of the crash yet. The NTSB is on-site and will determine what happened.

18 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

You could say the opposite is more the US/Boeing wanting it to be pilot error rather than reality

Not really since it is India announcing this and nothing from Boeing yet.

48 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I think that's more India wanting that as a reason than reality.

I guess that's possible, but what do we know is "reality" at this point in time? 

5 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

I guess that's possible, but what do we know is "reality" at this point in time? 

Nothing yet, hence the attempt from India to put the blame on someone else. 

8 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Nothing yet, hence the attempt from India to put the blame on someone else. 

That's what I'm seeing on YouTube from Indian sites. 

18 minutes ago, TedG said:

That's what I'm seeing on YouTube from Indian sites. 

Even if it turns out to be air India's mistake, pilot or otherwise, they'll have part of Indian public opinion on their side this way.

39 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

I guess that's possible, but what do we know is "reality" at this point in time? 

It will be interesting to learn more about this airline’s maintenance culture and reputation still all in all a sad 😞 tragic incident my condolences to all affected.

IMO. pilot error, no take off flaps selected. The wing is flat at the back and not extended as it should have been.

There would not have been enough wing surface for the jet to fly.  Just my opinion of course.

UPDATE
 

On Jun 14th, Indian Government Officials reported there were 33 confirmed fatalities on the ground, thus 274 dead in total. Recovery work at the site is still ongoing
 

Both flight data and cockpit voice recorder as well as the aircraft's ELT have been recovered.

 

 

  Adapted by Asean Now from Aviation Herald &nbsp2025-06-14

 

 

 

 

 

Seems that the latest thinking is dual engine failure as the RAT emergency turbine had deployed.

This video gives a good explanation 

 

 

 

32 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

Seems that the latest thinking is dual engine failure as the RAT emergency turbine had deployed.

This video gives a good explanation 

 

 

 

If the RAT was deployed immediately after take off, it would not have had time to start working properly.

21 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Why would nonsense amaze anyone? If nonsense amazes you then are you "special"? 

It's the continuous dribble that is so amazing but thanks for the complement.

21 hours ago, stevenl said:

First reports indicated that, later reports say the plane did use the full runway and rotated as usual.

 

That change is interesting  but I can't find any evidence that the full runway was used.

 

The rotation certainly did not look normal. A lot of dust kicked up as if the aircraft was possibly off the end of the runway and over dry grass when it lifted off. The climb angle was always shallow and the whole take off event looked to be a struggle, sadly. 

12 hours ago, BLMFem said:

Not sure how to interpret this. SOP or something else?

 

India orders inspection of Boeing 787s after Air India crash

 

"The aviation regulator on Friday ordered Air India to conduct additional maintenance checks on its Boeing 787-8/9 aircraft equipped with GEnx engines, including assessments of certain take-off parameters, electronic engine control tests and engine fuel-related checks."

 

This, IMHO, does indicate that they're looking at something more specific than just a "check your planes" type of thing.

 

I don't think they know any specifics yet. I looked at a few departing AI 787's from Indian airports the next day and found a few that had delayed departures of about 4 hours and some were cancelled completely. Probably a few quick checks to restore passenger confidence but all AI Dreamliners were flying again fairly quickly. If there was a known fault on the type then they probably would have grounded the lot.

10 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

That change is interesting  but I can't find any evidence that the full runway was used.

 

The rotation certainly did not look normal. A lot of dust kicked up as if the aircraft was possibly off the end of the runway and over dry grass when it lifted off. The climb angle was always shallow and the whole take off event looked to be a struggle, sadly. 

I'll trust experienced pilots over an armchair quarterback.

 

https://www.facebook.com/MentourPilot/videos/1207383097733798/

18 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I'll trust experienced pilots over an armchair quarterback.

 

https://www.facebook.com/MentourPilot/videos/1207383097733798/

 

I watch this guy and like his stuff but one thing here is that he says that it was "reported" that the aircraft backtracked and used the full length of the runway - but there is no full VDO evidence of this and the early raw data from Flight Radar 24 (such as it was) showed (and still shows) no such backtrack for full use of the runway.

 

He also claims that the 787 is shown to have taken off approximately "midway down the runway". I certainly never saw that one! The VDO I (and the whole world) saw shows a very late rotation with a lot of dust kicked up as if the aircraft was right at the end of the runway when it lifted off.

27 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

I don't think they know any specifics yet. I looked at a few departing AI 787's from Indian airports the next day and found a few that had delayed departures of about 4 hours and some were cancelled completely. Probably a few quick checks to restore passenger confidence but all AI Dreamliners were flying again fairly quickly. If there was a known fault on the type then they probably would have grounded the lot.

I was reading about RAT deployment, apparently it only happens when both engines fail AND hydraulic pressure is low. Which would explain losing altitude and gear down but doesn't explain why the flaps appeared to be up.

 

Only way flaps could be up is co-pilot error.

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I was reading about RAT deployment, apparently it only happens when both engines fail AND hydraulic pressure is low. Which would explain losing altitude and gear down but doesn't explain why the flaps appeared to be up.

 

Only way flaps could be up is co-pilot error.

 

Yes plus other conditions too but RAT deployment is also possible manually.

 

If flaps were set incorrectly before t/o then it was an error by both pilots.

 

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Yes plus other conditions too but RAT deployment is also possible manually.

If flaps were set incorrectly before t/o then it was an error by both pilots.

I still favour 'flaps up' when pilot asked for 'gear up'. 

UPDATE



Indian civil aviation minister Ram Mohan Naidu announced, that the central government is establishing a high-level committee to conduct a comprehensive investigation into the tragic crash of Air India Flight 171

 

Ongoing Investigations

 

The Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) commenced a formal investigation into the crash on the same day of the crash. A five-member GO Team, led by the Director General of AAIB, was dispatched immediately and later augmented with forensic and medical experts.

 

A significant breakthrough was achieved with the recovery of the aircraft’s black box on June 13 around 5 PM. The decoding process is expected to offer critical insights into the flight’s final moments.

 

High-Level Committee for Multi-Dimensional Review

 

A High-Level Committee has been constituted under the Chairmanship of the Home Secretary to conduct an independent and comprehensive inquiry. The committee includes officials from:

 

Ministry of Civil Aviation

Ministry of Home Affairs

Government of Gujarat

DGCA, BCAS, Indian Air Force, Intelligence Bureau

State Disaster Response Authority

National and State-level forensic experts

 

Key Objectives of the Committee:

 

Examine the incident from technical, operational, and regulatory standpoints

Identify any systemic or institutional gaps

Submit a consolidated report within three months

Recommend long-term reforms to strengthen aviation safety, including certification systems, emergency response protocols, crew training, and air traffic management systems

 

The Minister informed that while the AAIB investigation will handle the technical aspects, this high-level committee will provide a holistic, policy-oriented roadmap for future safeguards.

 

The committee is scheduled to begin its deliberations on Monday, June 16.

 

Aircraft Maintenance and Surveillance Measures

 

The DGCA (Directorate General of Civil Aviation) has directed Air India to undertake immediate technical inspections of all Boeing 787-8 and 787-9 aircraft fitted with Genx engines. Of the 33 Dreamliners currently in service across Indian carriers, 8 have already undergone inspection. The remaining aircraft are being checked on an urgent basis.

 

The DGCA has also intensified ongoing surveillance of maintenance protocols and airworthiness procedures for all wide-body aircraft operating in India.

 

UK response to investigation.

 

A team of four investigators from the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) has arrived in India. They have expertise in aircraft operations, engineering and recorded data. Their role is to provide additional support and expertise to the safety investigation being led by India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau.

 

The UK AAIB has ‘Expert’ status in the Indian safety investigation. In accordance with international protocols, release of information on the investigation rests solely with the Indian authorities.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/aaib-update-air-india-flight-ai171

 

 

  Adapted by Asean Now 2025-06-15

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

It's the continuous dribble that is so amazing but thanks for the complement.

But you did not answer the question? Why are you amazed? 

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I still favour 'flaps up' when pilot asked for 'gear up'. 

 

Could be but it looked like they were never set to any useful degree to enable take off.

2 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

But you did not answer the question? Why are you amazed? 

 

I just did but you can't even comprehend that.