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London-Bound Air India Flight Crashes Near Ahmedabad

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On 6/14/2025 at 8:38 PM, BLMFem said:

Unless the writer of the REUTERS article got it wrong it definitively seems like they're focusing on engine/thrust issues, and with one engine type in particular. 

I do not know about what Reuters is saying, but this video has the conversation of the pilots when it happened. It seems that both full switches for the engines cut-off simultaneously and neither pilot did it. . 

 

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  • mikeymike100
    mikeymike100

    The 787's have been in service for almost 14 years, this is the first actual crash of one! No Fatal Crashes Until 2025: Prior to the Air India crash, the 787 had no fatal accidents in nearly 5 mi

  • josephbloggs
    josephbloggs

    You don't think perhaps they were busy?? You want them to be having a conversation with ATC when they are desperately trying to save their lives and those of all on board (and on the ground)? They are

  • Really? Compared to Boeing's recent history it's not even close which company has been the safest. No contest.

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7 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Hopefully they'll analyse the voices so can tell who said what, plus fingerprints or dna if possible 

With a black box recorder being present, it’s possible that the person who asked why the fuel flow had been cut off was actually the one who flicked the switch, to deflect suspicion.

1 hour ago, thesetat said:

I do not know about what Reuters is saying, but this video has the conversation of the pilots when it happened. It seems that both full switches for the engines cut-off simultaneously and neither pilot did it. . 

 

 

Almost simultaneously.

 

One pilot denied switching anything off.

 

Suggest you read the prelim report.

 

27 minutes ago, merck said:

With a black box recorder being present, it’s possible that the person who asked why the fuel flow had been cut off was actually the one who flicked the switch, to deflect suspicion.

 

Yes that is possible but the FDR does not know who did it.

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On 7/12/2025 at 4:45 PM, transam said:

I read that the fuel switches were not a simple switch, and for both to be turned off was very strange......

 

Yep. Very strange....

 

These switches are spring-loaded and designed to stay in their set position, either 'RUN' (which supplies fuel to the engines) or 'CUTOFF' (which cuts off the fuel). To move a switch, a pilot must first lift the switch upward and then toggle it between RUN and CUTOFF. This added step is an intentional safeguard meant to prevent accidental activation

 

https://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/india/where-are-fuel-switches-located-can-they-be-accidentally-turned-off-on-a-boeing-787-tjy9r8hf

On 7/12/2025 at 7:24 PM, ExpatOilWorker said:

Keep in mind, there was a third pilot in the jump seat. We haven't heard anything about him. 

 

No third pilot.

On 7/12/2025 at 5:54 PM, ExpatOilWorker said:

Keep in mind, there was a third pilot in the jump seat. We haven't heard anything about him. 

Where did you hear that from?  Source please. 

35 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Yes that is possible but the FDR does not know who did it.

Yes, the FDR doesn't record whose hand flicked the switch, you'd need CCTV for that, that's the point I'm making.
The person who actually flicked the switch, knowing his voice would be recorded, may have thrown in, "Why did you cut the switch?" to deflect attention from himself in any subsequent investigation.

 

 

 

 

Something occurs to me, in relation to the crash, and the speculation surrounding the fuel control switches.

 

The Indian Air Accident Investigation Bureau's investigators were aware of the potential for a problem with the fuel control switch locking mechanism - they made specific mention of it in their report. So it is absolutely inconceivable to me that they would not have checked for this issue on the part from the downed aircraft.

 

We know that the fuel control switch module was basically undamaged because there's a photo of it in the report. It is smoke-blackened but otherwise completely intact. So it would have been easy to ascertain if the switch was installed correctly or not.

 

Having done that, and if they had discovered that it was incorrectly installed, it would be unconscionable for them not to have issued an immediate request for all Air India's relevant Boeing models to be checked for this issue, and to pass the information on to the relevant international air safety organisations, to be disseminated worldwide, as a matter of urgent concern.

 

However we know that the investigators said that no remedial action needed to be taken on Air India aircraft and no immediate safety concern was flagged up to international authorities, so I think we can be fairly confident that they discovered nothing amiss with installation of the fuel control switches.

 

The FAA also issued a statement to more or less this effect.

 

FAA Interim Report Finds No Immediate Safety Issues with Boeing 787-8 in Air India Crash

 

https://www.eplaneai.com/news/faa-interim-report-finds-no-immediate-safety-issues-with-boeing-787-8-in-air-india-crash

 

Quote

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has communicated to international aviation authorities that its interim review of the Air India Boeing 787-8 crash on June 12 revealed no immediate safety concerns related to the aircraft’s engines or systems.

 

After the AAIB preliminary report, Etihad Airways have released a bulletin asking pilots to “exercise caution when operating the fuel control switches or any other switches/control in their vicinity”.

 

The airline says that that this measure is being taken "out of an abundance of caution".

 

A separate bulletin from Etihad mandates inspections of the fuel control locking mechanism across its Boeing 787 fleet, with a detailed guide for engineers to verify proper engagement of this feature.

 

It has also directed pilots to avoid placing objects on the pedestal to avoid accidental movements, and ordered the crew onboard to report anything unusual.

 

Meanwhile, the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport (MOLIT) of South Korea is also preparing checks on the fuel control switches in Boeing planes operated by its airlines. However, there is no timeline for these examinations yet.

 

image.jpeg

Both fuel switches work independently? So not sure how both could be moved accidently.

 

Lots of conspiracy theories out there trying to get away from one of the pilots being to blame

Depression 

 

As I said another MH370. 

 

Serious, I'm the happiest guy here but some members can bring you down to their pathetic level. 

 

The squeaky wheel 

 

It's infectious, being miserable, too many here. 

 

FB_IMG_1752488186700.jpg

22 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Depression 

 

MH370. 

 

FB_IMG_1752488186700.jpg

His mom died in 2022. Mommy's boy must really have been missing her home cooked curry 🍛

India's Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) has ordered air carriers to conduct inspection of certain Boeing models. As per the US's Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)'s Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) 2018, related to the fuel control switch, Indian airlines have been asked to inspect aircraft by 21 July.

 

“It has come to the notice of DGCA that several operators-internationally as well as domestic have initiated inspection on their aircraft fleet as per the SAIB NM-18-33 dated 17th December 2018. In the view of above, all airline operators of the affected aircraft are hereby advised to complete the inspection required under SAIB NM-18-33, no later than 21st July 2025,” said DGCA in the order.

21 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Something occurs to me, in relation to the crash, and the speculation surrounding the fuel control switches.

 

....

 

We know that the fuel control switch module was basically undamaged because there's a photo of it in the report. It is smoke-blackened but otherwise completely intact. So it would have been easy to ascertain if the switch was installed correctly or not.

 

 

 

I agree with you that we need to know if the locking mechanism on the fuel switches was operational or faulty.

 

Its such an obvious fact that is key to the investigation.  If the locking mechanism was not engaged, then the switches could much more easily flip to down by accidentally knocking an object on them.

 

The accident report refers to an advisory notice about possible deactivation of locking mechanism.  So a very, very obvious question is was the locking mechanism deactivated ?

 

As you say, the investgators have the switches, and photos of them.  So surely they can tell if the locking mechanism is active.  

 

The report could have a simple statement such as 'the locking mechanism was engaged and working'.  

 

The report doesnt have that simple statement.  Why ?  Its such a key fact.

 

 

On 7/13/2025 at 7:48 PM, ravip said:

Air India Plane Crash Report: Expert Claims Pilot May Have Deliberately Crashed Air India Flight

 

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/air-india-plane-crash-report-aviation-expert-flags-pilot-suicide-angle-amid-air-india-crash-probe-8864239

 

I haven't been following this thread, however my thoughts turned to the possibility that one of the pilots deliberately disengaged the fuel switches, because of depression or mental problems (suicidal) and so I thought I would post this here: –

 

"When NDTV asked if one of the pilots intentionally switched off the fuel, fully aware that doing so could cause a crash, Captain Ranganathan said, "Absolutely." 
"It has to be manually done," Captain Ranganathan told NDTV when asked if there is any way fuel can be shut off to the engines of the Dreamliner. "It cannot be done automatically or due to a power failure because the fuel selectors are not the sliding type. They are designed to stay in a slot, and you have to pull them out to move them up or down. So, the possibility of inadvertently moving them to the "off" position doesn't arise. It's definitely a case of deliberate manual selection to move it to 'off'."


https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/air-india-plane-crash-report-aviation-expert-flags-pilot-suicide-angle-amid-air-india-crash-probe-8864239
 

20 minutes ago, deejai33 said:

I agree with you that we need to know if the locking mechanism on the fuel switches was operational or faulty.

 

Its such an obvious fact that is key to the investigation.  If the locking mechanism was not engaged, then the switches could much more easily flip to down by accidentally knocking an object on them.

 

The accident report refers to an advisory notice about possible deactivation of locking mechanism.  So a very, very obvious question is was the locking mechanism deactivated ?

 

As you say, the investgators have the switches, and photos of them.  So surely they can tell if the locking mechanism is active.  

 

The report could have a simple statement such as 'the locking mechanism was engaged and working'.  

 

The report doesnt have that simple statement.  Why ?  Its such a key fact.

 

 

 

From the prelim report (page 10).

 

The thrust lever quadrant sustained significant thermal damage. Both thrust levers were found near the aft (idle) position. However, the EAFR data revealed that the thrust levers remained forward (takeoff thrust) until the impact. Both fuel control switch were found in the “RUN” position. (fig.13) The reverser levers were bent but were in the “stowed” position. The wiring from the TO/GA switches and autothrottle disconnect switches were visible, but heavily damaged.

 

So regardless of the locking feature, the switches were found set to RUN, despite the crash impact, heat and damage. This implies that they were locked in position.

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

 

So regardless of the locking feature, the switches were found set to RUN, despite the crash impact, heat and damage. This implies that they were locked in position.

I see your point, but its not very convincing when they could look at the switches and tell us for sure if the safety locking mechanism was enabled.  No guessing or implying.

 

We want to know was the locking mechanism disengaged or not.

 

We don't need to guess or imply such a key fact about the state of the switches.  The investigators must know by now surely.

 

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

I haven't been following this thread, however.....

 

 They are designed to stay in a slot, and you have to pull them out to move them up or down. So, the possibility of inadvertently moving them to the "off" position doesn't arise.

 

I suggest you read the preliminary crash report, 15 pages.  It refers to a manufacturing issue affecting an unspecified number of planes.  A fully documented issue where switch was wrongly configured without the locking mechanism.

 

You are correct that the designers intended to safeguard against accidentally bumping a switch.  But in the manufacturing process this design feature was disengaged in an unspecified number of planes.

 

We have not been told yet if the crashed plane had a disengaged locking mechanism.

 

Ethidad, air india and korean air are checking this locking mechanism on their planes to see if disabled.

16 minutes ago, deejai33 said:

I see your point, but its not very convincing when they could look at the switches and tell us for sure if the safety locking mechanism was enabled.  No guessing or implying.

 

We want to know was the locking mechanism disengaged or not.

 

We don't need to guess or imply such a key fact about the state of the switches.  The investigators must know by now surely.

 

 

Interim reports state known facts. As the condition of the locking mechanism was not mentioned, it is possible that it was unknown at the time of writing.

1 minute ago, nrasmussen said:

 

Interim reports state known facts. As the condition of the locking mechanism was not mentioned, it is possible that it was unknown at the time of writing.

Yes, I can see that.  Maybe you're prohibited from touching or fiddling with the wreckage incase evidence it altered.   At some point they will know.

 

Being pedantic, the Indian authorities have asked for all plane switches to be checked by next week, and you could say the crashed plane should be checked by then too.  But that is pedantic.

15 minutes ago, deejai33 said:

Yes, I can see that.  Maybe you're prohibited from touching or fiddling with the wreckage incase evidence it altered.   At some point they will know.

 

Indeed. Since this issue could very well be an essential clue to determine what actually happened, it's imperative that they get it right. I'm sure that the final report will be interesting.

1 hour ago, deejai33 said:

I see your point, but its not very convincing when they could look at the switches and tell us for sure if the safety locking mechanism was enabled.  No guessing or implying.

 

We want to know was the locking mechanism disengaged or not.

 

We don't need to guess or imply such a key fact about the state of the switches.  The investigators must know by now surely.

 

 

This leverlock type of toggle switch is equipped with a spring-loaded locking mechanism that keeps it at the position set by the pilot. The mechanism prevents any other unintended switching. The switch has to be pulled up (away from the pedestal surface) before moving it from run to cutoff, or vice versa. Then the spring draws the switch contact down into the desired position. This switch is built as one unit and there is no selectable option to "disable" it without physically dismantling or damaging it.

 

This type is widely used in other electrical/electronic equipment and they are what they are (see below):

 

image.png.4844c77d5c9b922766b01e2582992947.png

https://www.reuters.com/graphics/INDIA-CRASH/TIMELINE/xmvjelqwlpr/

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 This switch is built as one unit and there is no selectable option to "disable" it without physically dismantling or damaging it.

 

 

Lots of articles on web about how safe the locking mechanism is when installed correctly.  But :

 

The Air India Crash prelim report says on page 6:

 

"The FAA issued Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) No. NM-18-33 on 
December 17, 2018, regarding the potential disengagement of the fuel control switch locking 
feature. This SAIB was issued based on reports from operators of Model 737 airplanes that 
the fuel control switches were installed with the locking feature disengaged. "

 

The FAA think the switch can have the locking mechanism disabled.

 

Ethidad and other airlines are checking their switches.  They must also believe its possible to disable/disengage the locking mechanism.

 

 

11 hours ago, deejai33 said:

Lots of articles on web about how safe the locking mechanism is when installed correctly.  But :

 

The Air India Crash prelim report says on page 6:

 

"The FAA issued Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) No. NM-18-33 on 
December 17, 2018, regarding the potential disengagement of the fuel control switch locking 
feature. This SAIB was issued based on reports from operators of Model 737 airplanes that 
the fuel control switches were installed with the locking feature disengaged. "

 

The FAA think the switch can have the locking mechanism disabled.

 

Ethidad and other airlines are checking their switches.  They must also believe its possible to disable/disengage the locking mechanism.

 

 

 

I've  just looked over the specs again but no help. So, show me how the locking feature can be disengaged, please?

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