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London-Bound Air India Flight Crashes Near Ahmedabad

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2 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I disagree - if you were to cut off fuel to the engines at a later stage, there would be a much better chance to restart them, as was attempted here (the switches were quickly put back to the "run" position, but there just wasn't enough time for them to regain thrust).

 

However by cutting off the fuel just after take off, you could pretty much guarantee that the plane was going to crash.

Apologies. What I meant was - if that was done over the ocean, for example, the wreckage might never be found and it could never be determined what has happened. But if you do it so close to airport, yes, there's a big fireball (although had they had a few 100ft more altitude, they might actually pull out of that after restarting the engines), but the recorders on the plane would make it quite clear who has done what, which would bring a lot of shame to pilot's family. Then again, I'm not a psychiatrist nor know about captain's mental state (assuming it was first officer flying as was reported) to know whether he's capable of something like that...

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  • mikeymike100
    mikeymike100

    The 787's have been in service for almost 14 years, this is the first actual crash of one! No Fatal Crashes Until 2025: Prior to the Air India crash, the 787 had no fatal accidents in nearly 5 mi

  • josephbloggs
    josephbloggs

    You don't think perhaps they were busy?? You want them to be having a conversation with ATC when they are desperately trying to save their lives and those of all on board (and on the ground)? They are

  • Really? Compared to Boeing's recent history it's not even close which company has been the safest. No contest.

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16 minutes ago, impulse said:

As I understand it, Air India didn't act on the 2018 safety bulletin because it was put out as discretionary.  An SAIB vs an AD.

 

On an aside, has anyone found another source for the Preliminary Report?  The Indian Gub'ment website is blocked here in China.  I can't tell on which side it's blocked.  I just can't access the report.

You could try this link. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/07/11/us/air-india-crash-report.html#

 

New York Times articles are sometimes paywalled but this one doesn't seem to be - for me at least (and I don't have a subscription).

I don't believe the switch was pulled on purpose. Seems much more likely that Air India didn't follow the recommended update on the fuel switches.

I may be a tad ignorant here, but why on Earth is it possible to switch off the fuel to the engines when the plane is in flight?  Do some pilots like to save fuel by 'coasting' in the air?!! (bit like switching of your car engine at the traffic lights).

 

Surely that should only be possible if a fire warning in the engine was sounded?

What is strange is that the Plane had fuel flowing while it was Taxiing to the runway, it also had fuel on takeoff yet the fuel switches were in cut off mode leaving the ground ? To me the initial disaster started in the cockpit by pilot error. However flight Data will discover if the fuel switches were turned to off posistion and what time were they cut off.

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1 hour ago, BarraMarra said:

What is strange is that the Plane had fuel flowing while it was Taxiing to the runway, it also had fuel on takeoff yet the fuel switches were in cut off mode leaving the ground ? To me the initial disaster started in the cockpit by pilot error. However flight Data will discover if the fuel switches were turned to off posistion and what time were they cut off.

They were not in cutoff mode when leaving the ground, and the report does show the time when the fuel control switches were moved to the cutoff position (and then moved back again).

 

According to the report, the plane took off at at 08:08:39 UTC. It reached its maximum altitude of 180m at 08:08:42 UTC and immediately thereafter, the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches were moved to the cutoff position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec. They were moved back to the run position at 08:08:52 and 08:08:56 respectively, but did not have time to regain thrust before the aircraft crashed, which was at 08:09:11 UTC, based on when the flight recorder stopped working.

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

I don't believe the switch was pulled on purpose. Seems much more likely that Air India didn't follow the recommended update on the fuel switches.

I read that the fuel switches were not a simple switch, and for both to be turned off was very strange......

3 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

I see the keyboard coward is at work on this thread 2 guesses who it is giving the Thumbs down Emoji.

You better gather some information.

Switches turned off after takeoff!

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37 minutes ago, transam said:

I read that the fuel switches were not a simple switch, and for both to be turned off was very strange......

Close to impossible to move inadvertently.

42 minutes ago, transam said:

I read that the fuel switches were not a simple switch, and for both to be turned off was very strange......

 

3 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Close to impossible to move inadvertently.

According to TV reports the switches have to be pulled up and then rotated to operate and that after the shut down after dialogues between the pilots the switches were reset but too late!

7 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

You better gather some information.

Switches turned off after takeoff!

It appears that they were turned off and then back on but too late!

7 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

But seems if that isn't the case, this looks deliberate. But why would you do something like that in the middle of the take-off?

Keep in mind, there was a third pilot in the jump seat. We haven't heard anything about him. 

4 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

They were not in cutoff mode when leaving the ground, and the report does show the time when the fuel control switches were moved to the cutoff position (and then moved back again).

 

According to the report, the plane took off at at 08:08:39 UTC. It reached its maximum altitude of 180m at 08:08:42 UTC and immediately thereafter, the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches were moved to the cutoff position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec. They were moved back to the run position at 08:08:52 and 08:08:56 respectively, but did not have time to regain thrust before the aircraft crashed, which was at 08:09:11 UTC, based on when the flight recorder stopped working.

So the Aircraft fuel switches were ON when it left the Ground Grovehill ?

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28 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

So the Aircraft fuel switches were ON when it left the Ground Grovehill ?

 

   Well yes ., otherwise the airplane wouldn't have been able to take off

Seems obvious one of the pilots choose to check-out and take a plane full of innocent people with him. Not the first time this has happened. Automation will cure this problem. Unfortunately people cannot be trusted any longer with this function. 

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Update on the released AAIB report from Captain Steve

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Hummin said:

Update on the released AAIB report from Captain Steve

 

 

 

 

What took place is obvious

6 hours ago, Hummin said:

Update on the released AAIB report from Captain Steve

 

 

 

 

Hopefully they'll analyse the voices so can tell who said what, plus fingerprints or dna if possible 

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18 minutes ago, pegman said:

What took place is obvious

I'm relieved there where no a mechanical problem, even this is a great tragedy that impacts many people.

 

Started to lose faith in boing already before this accident 

7 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I'm relieved there where no a mechanical problem, even this is a great tragedy that impacts many people.

 

Started to lose faith in boing already before this accident 

 

I'm surprised there were no comments regarding, what appears to be, the wrong switches having being fitted by Boeing?......ones with no safety detent?

 

Having said that I don't know if that was the case or even relevant in this accident.

19 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I'm relieved there where no a mechanical problem, even this is a great tragedy that impacts many people.

Started to lose faith in boing already before this accident 

It takes 2-3 days to examine the black box.

The next month is used to fake an explanation that doesn't hurt the big bucks and blame it on human error.

16 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

I'm surprised there were no comments regarding, what appears to be, the wrong switches having being fitted by Boeing?......ones with no safety detent?

 

Having said that I don't know if that was the case or even relevant in this accident.

Not relevant according to Captain Steeeve video above 

31 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

It takes 2-3 days to examine the black box.

The next month is used to fake an explanation that doesn't hurt the big bucks and blame it on human error.

 

He list the board of investigation on the last video, and also explain the black box and procedure of investigation in this video. 

 

He have also talked about mental health among pilots quite often in his videos. 

 

 

 

22 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

So the Aircraft fuel switches were ON when it left the Ground Grovehill ?

Well, it's actually called the 'run' position but yes, the switches were on when it left the ground.

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5 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

I'm surprised there were no comments regarding, what appears to be, the wrong switches having being fitted by Boeing?......ones with no safety detent?

 

Having said that I don't know if that was the case or even relevant in this accident.

It's true there was an SAIB (an advisory bulletin) that some switches on 737's had been installed incorrectly in such a way that there was a potential for the locking mechanism to be disengaged. 

 

However there are a couple of things to note about this. This was only a potential issue and no instance of a switch actually being moved inadvertently has ever been reported. The incorrect installation was only ever reported on 737's, not on 787’s - which have a similar, but not identical switch. The throttle control module on this specific aircraft had been replaced twice, for problems not related to the fuel control switches and no defects with the fuel switches were seen on either occasion.

 

Pretty much all the analyses of the interim report that I've seen, all by current or former pilots including pilots with experience of the 787, say that the issue mentioned in this SAIB almost certainly had nothing to do with this crash. One thing they point out is that even if there were a problem, the odds of it happening to one of the switches during flight would be a million to one - and the chances of it happening to both switches one after another with a 1 second delay in between (the time it would take for a person to move one of the switches, then move the other) would be infinitesimal.

33 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Well, it's actually called the 'run' position but yes, the switches were on when it left the ground.

And put back to the "on" position too late to avoid the crash!

On 7/10/2025 at 11:39 AM, stevenl said:

I think it may be interesting because the Indians will try to put the blame on Boeing. 

More likely Boeing, being in dire straights, putting the blame on the Indian crew.

 

On the bright side, they'll fix the bug, after dishing out millions to silence the experts. Wouldn't have happened a year ago.

Just now, Peter Crow said:

More likely Boeing, being in dire straights, putting the blame on the Indian crew.

 

On the bright side, they'll fix the bug, after dishing out millions to silence the experts. Wouldn't have happened a year ago.

What bug? There's no sign of there having been any kind of mechanical defect with the plane. Everything that happened is consistent with the fuel control switches being moved one after another, with a one second delay in between, from the run to the cutoff position.

11 minutes ago, DezLez said:

And put back to the "on" position too late to avoid the crash!

At that height and speed, no matter how quickly the switches were put back to the run position, it would have been too late.

 

Again according to various experienced pilots (such as Captain Steve, mentioned above) the engines on a 787 would take from 30 seconds to a minute to relight and spool back up to provide sufficient thrust to start climbing again, and once the switches were moved to the cutoff position, the plane was only 19 seconds away from hitting the building.

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