43 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I bought a second hand condo in central Bkk. 

At first AGM several old issues raise their heads.

Just one, 2 old Chinese-Thai condo owners were asked to show 2 Thai bank savings accounts which held funds built over many years for future maintenance. They totally refused.

 

At the same meeting a new owners committee was formed including a famous senior cop who was admired for his long-term stand against corruption and he spoke advanced English. He asked for further details re the bank books and one of the old ladies insisted that she would neve show the bank books because there ws several farng condo owners; she was convinced all farang are dangerous and dishonest.

 

The cop told the old ladies that they did not own the funds and they must comply with a request of many owners to see the bank books. They refused.

 

Cop started legal action to force exhibiting of the bank books.

 

That worked but in reality the total funds in the 2 savings accounts was in total under 10,000Baht.

 

Unpaid maintenance bills? That was harsh. Never saw anything like that happening here. In our condo they cut off water, refuse to extend parking rights and access to common areas, which is I think for 3 months overdue fees which are collected twice a year for building maintenance and every 3 months for water usage. Electricity is anyway paid directly to MEA. 

1 hour ago, BumGun said:

but that's VERY simplistic way to look at it because you conveniently left our opportunity and sovereign risk, amongst other risks , not to say that's not a consideration

 

If 10 years ago you had invested in say Nvidia and Amazon shares with your capital and then paid rent to live in Thailand, you'd be far, far ahead now ie opportunity cost

 

Governments change and they decide to change the laws and you aren't allowed back in as they are not permanent resident ie sovereign risk eg some people  who purchased property in the US and have legal status but can't get it renewed will be nervous, or even because they have an unpaid parking ticket 10 years ago. If you can' get your retirement visa renewed because they changed the base requirement to 8 Million Baht in the bank , then what ?

 

Purchasing property to live in is really about a lifestyle choice, somewhere to hang your hat and call home but if you're not a citizen, you are their as a guest who can be kicked out.  If you're happy with that, go ahead.  I'd never look at it as an investment though.

 

As to Australians, they are property weird, because to them purchasing property is mostly a no brainier if you can afford it, there's no real analysis or due diligence necessary (flood plains and coastal erosion aside)  as its heavily subsidised by the government in terms of tax relief and supply is severely restricted by government, so prices just go up and even insurance is often subsidised by government eg northern Australia in uninsurable so government stepped in as the underwriter (similar to much of the US with the NFIP ).  Aussies then assume the same everywhere ie a business plan is 1.Buy property   2. ????  3. Profit !

 

Obviously simplistic. We didn't put in capital gain taxes, potential income from renting the unit out, differences in utility prices between rented and owned properties, potential losses from investing in something that went belly up, etc. My post was for someone who has a choice (and funds) between renting a place and buying one, that there are benefits to owning it if that's done in the right kind of property in the right area, at the right price. Like there are benefits to those who have few, if any ties to Thailand and are just longer term tourists, in renting, rather than owning a place.

 

One admission... I bought condo at the beginning of COVID when people thought there was the end of the World coming. Sansiri wanted to close the project and offered 50% discount on all unsold units. Hence if I went to sell mine, I'd probably get 50-60% profit on it. But I like it (despite being thrown around in last quake), especially sunsets out the windows... So I have no interest in selling it.

 

 

I'm not Aussie and have no knowledge nor interest in real-estate there, hence I would be useless in any discussion about it.

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Those who succeed are those that don't chuck large amounts of money at business/property/cars when they first come here. Rent everything, buy nothing (maybe a second hand car or new scooter) and don't invest in any business ventures your new girlfriend suggests, if a bank won't finance her 'ideas', neither should you.

I havet claimed should either.

 

Understand the cultur and possibilities takes time, and I didn't see any business I wanted to make here, after learning the possibilities.

 

My investments in my wife, I refer to as my future lottery ticket based on others success rates. I still think I'm well off compared to others. 

 

By now I'm down to expensive rent. Another 3-4 years I'm on the cheap side of it. 10 more years? Won the lottery

 

19 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Obviously simplistic. We didn't put in capital gain taxes, potential income from renting the unit out, differences in utility prices between rented and owned properties, potential losses from investing in something that went belly up, etc. My post was for someone who has a choice (and funds) between renting a place and buying one, that there are benefits to owning it if that's done in the right kind of property in the right area, at the right price. Like there are benefits to those who have few, if any ties to Thailand and are just longer term tourists, in renting, rather than owning a place.

 

One admission... I bought condo at the beginning of COVID when people thought there was the end of the World coming. Sansiri wanted to close the project and offered 50% discount on all unsold units. Hence if I went to sell mine, I'd probably get 50-60% profit on it. But I like it (despite being thrown around in last quake), especially sunsets out the windows... So I have no interest in selling it.

 

 

I'm not Aussie and have no knowledge nor interest in real-estate there, hence I would be useless in any discussion about it.

And I bought Apple for my Roth IRA after opening my fist iPod.

 

We own two homes in Thailand, and I am pretty happy with both of them. 

 

 

I would add that anyone buying a condo make sure that the purchase includes at least one DEDICATED parking space. 

16 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I would add that anyone buying a condo make sure that the purchase includes at least one DEDICATED parking space. 

Absolutely agree. Most condos now only have 30-40% of parking lots compared to number of units, and while some don't allow any dedicated slots, those that do, usually only do that for largest units.

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

You never know when the karaoke bar, or the guy with chickens or a dog that barks all night, etc. moves into the condo next door? 

What's the difference. I said rent. Don't buy.

Just now, gargamon said:

What's the difference. I said rent. Don't buy.

There is a difference. I think it's quite a stretch to see someone turning 40th floor unit into a karaoke bar, and pets are banned in most condos. Street dogs are a different story, especially if there's a moobaan nearby, but nothing that can't be fixed with double glazed windows on a high floor.

Just now, gargamon said:

What's the difference. I said rent. Don't buy.

I've been happy with the homes I have purchased, and I'm sorry things have not worked out as well for you. 

1 minute ago, tomazbodner said:

There is a difference. I think it's quite a stretch to see someone turning 40th floor unit into a karaoke bar, and pets are banned in most condos. Street dogs are a different story, especially if there's a moobaan nearby, but nothing that can't be fixed with double glazed windows on a high floor.

I think there are good reasons to buy, and good reasons to rent. 

 

 

On 6/30/2025 at 8:16 AM, rikiderorck said:

Now moving to the main question I have. I heard condos are a different story. I heard that foreigners can own a condo. But isn’t the land under the condo still an issue. I heard something like the land must be majority owned by Thais. So what happens if the Thai majority one day wants to remove the foreign owners. Is that possible. Could they vote to change something that forces foreigners out later?

You can own a condo if 51% of the condo owners in the building are Thais; i.e. your condo is within the 49% quota that is allowed for foreigners. It woeks same way as shareholders in a Thai company limited.

25 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think there are good reasons to buy, and good reasons to rent. 

 

 

 

Well run condominiums is worth buying, but You wouldn't know if you didn't rent first. And that's one of the reasons I didn't buy in Hua Hin. They didn't let me rent for 3 months with intention of buying after 3 months. 

 

 

Renting an apartment before buying can be a good way to assess the property's management, including the board of directors' effectiveness and how they handle issues. This allows potential buyers to gauge the community's dynamics and potential long-term living experience.  

 

 

Condos can be owned outright. As far as I know, if you lease land and you build on it and they won’t renew the lease they will have to reimburse you for the house you built on it.

 

If you have 40 million Baht to invest for three years, you can invest it either  into a government fond, real estate or other activities approved by the BOI. This will give you the right to buy one rai of land, on which you can build a house or buy one rai that already has a building on it. There’s conditions attached to it, though. You can’t turn the property into a business, like a rental or accommodation business and you have to live in it yourself. If you have the cash, then this will be by far your best option. 

On 6/30/2025 at 1:16 PM, rikiderorck said:

Hello people ,

Ok so as a foreigner I believe I cannot own land in Thailand. The only thing I can do is lease the land for 30 years . I can own the house that sits on it. But after 30 years the problem starts because there is no guarantee I can stay. The landowner can refuse to renew and I lose access to the land. So the best I can do is maybe destroy or remove the house, if the contract allows it. I think I understand that, but correct me if I’m wrong please.

Now moving to the main question I have. I heard condos are a different story. I heard that foreigners can own a condo. But isn’t the land under the condo still an issue. I heard something like the land must be majority owned by Thais. So what happens if the Thai majority one day wants to remove the foreign owners. Is that possible. Could they vote to change something that forces foreigners out later?

In the end I just want to understand how condos are really different from leasehold villas. Because it still feels like in both cases the land is controlled by Thai law and Thai people, and foreigners can always be limited or blocked. So can someone explain how secure a condo really is long term. 

I'm not a specialist. Presumanbly, the building and land are registered in the name of an association. Why not look into this. Do they have decision-making provisions, such as flow-through of expenses, repairs, even eventual transformation of the building?

8 hours ago, TopThai54 said:

Why do Farangs (especially Americans & Australians) always want to buy Properties ! 
Rent ! You can always move if you have unpleasant neighbors or want to relocate to another town ! In many cases Houses or Condos turn to be difficult to sell and/or with a loss ! 

 

Buying is MUCH cheaper in the longer term. Why do you think there are so many landlords. But if you have money to burn then rent.

8 hours ago, TopThai54 said:

Why do Farangs (especially Americans & Australians) always want to buy Properties ! 
Rent ! You can always move if you have unpleasant neighbors or want to relocate to another town ! In many cases Houses or Condos turn to be difficult to sell and/or with a loss ! 

     Can only speak for myself but this American buys for the very simple reason that life is short and you possibly only go around once.  Not for me living my dwindling wonder years in someone else's space with very likely inferior everything--from the small tv to the cheap sofa to the poor refrigerator to the lousy art on the wall--if any--to the uncomfortable--and well-used--mattress on the bed to . . .   Well, the list goes on.   No thanks.  Spouse and I just sold our house today, by the way.  It wasn't hard.  Any time we feel like moving, we can.  Owning doesn't tie us down.  

On 7/4/2025 at 8:31 AM, TopThai54 said:

Why do Farangs (especially Americans & Australians) always want to buy Properties ! 
Rent ! You can always move if you have unpleasant neighbors or want to relocate to another town ! In many cases Houses or Condos turn to be difficult to sell and/or with a loss ! 

I'm an American and I bought our house on the northern edge of Bangkok for my wife who is younger than me.  We've lived here rent free for 23 years, and have made upgrades and modifications to suit our preferences.  Our house is comfortable, roomy and pleasant. It's been a great investment in a  nice gated community with good neighbors.  Most problems with neighbors occur in inexpensive properties, just like in any other country.  

On 6/30/2025 at 4:16 PM, rikiderorck said:

Hello people ,

Ok so as a foreigner I believe I cannot own land in Thailand. The only thing I can do is lease the land for 30 years . I can own the house that sits on it. But after 30 years the problem starts because there is no guarantee I can stay. The landowner can refuse to renew and I lose access to the land. So the best I can do is maybe destroy or remove the house, if the contract allows it. I think I understand that, but correct me if I’m wrong please.

Now moving to the main question I have. I heard condos are a different story. I heard that foreigners can own a condo. But isn’t the land under the condo still an issue. I heard something like the land must be majority owned by Thais. So what happens if the Thai majority one day wants to remove the foreign owners. Is that possible. Could they vote to change something that forces foreigners out later?

In the end I just want to understand how condos are really different from leasehold villas. Because it still feels like in both cases the land is controlled by Thai law and Thai people, and foreigners can always be limited or blocked. So can someone explain how secure a condo really is long term. 

In answer to your question, although you own the condo on paper (i.e. the rooms in your apartment), you do not own the land. As 51% of the condos must be owned by Thais, you must abide by decisions of the body corporate. You are subject to clauses in the body corporate agreement. Read and understand them.

My sincere advice to anyone who really wants to live in Thailand forever is 1. not to buy a condo unless you like small, often poorly constructed and overpriced digs. They lose fast in value and there are too many being built. 2. If you rent, the rent will inevitably increase over time so that buying might be a better option if you intend to stay here forever. 3. Yes, I know, non-Thais are not permitted to own any land. My lazy adult Thai children could have bought everything for me in their name, but they want nothing to do with Thailand. They don't want to come here. Therefore everything is in my Thai wife's name. 4. I have a usufruct over my house and land until I die. The entry into the title deed is for free. I am essentially the de-facto owner of this land and the house on it until I die. If I live 100 years, it's mine for 100 years. There is no 30 year limit. It is until I die. 5. If my son does eventually make it over here, my wife will transfer all assets into his name. However, the usufruct remains intact. 6. The chief registrar at the Land Titles Office suggested to my wife today that we put everything in a legal will and not rely on a prenuptial agreement. This was in response to me forking out many millions for my wife to be able to buy and transfer an estate just this morning. The previous heirs had to go to court because the previous Thai owner (and her foreign husband) did not have a proper will in place and the estate had to be split in three (some of the money will go to overseas heirs). Once I die, I want two of the three Thai assets that I paid 100% for over the years to go to my Thai children from a previous marriage who don't live in Thailand. One asset and the car goes to my wife. All money in my bank account goes to my son. Although this is already all in the prenup, it is better making it 100% legal in a will. Since the Thai Inheritance Act does not discriminate against foreigners, anyone can inherit land - even me - but I can't never transfer it into my name. My children, on the other hand, have no such restrictions because they have three citizenships - including Thai. Although I trust my wife 100%, I don't trust Thai bearcats. The Land Titles Office put down the previous heir in error as my wife's husband on the transfer documents this morning - and not me. My wife gets so impatient when I read through pages of stuff that Thai bureaucrats want me to sign. But I keep on picking up errors. Anyone who wants to go down the road of no return and die here, do your homework, speak to knowledgeable people and check every single document. Even Thai people don't know how to spell my wife's name correctly - and most Thais don't check documents. They are impatient and hastily put documents in front of you to sign. But a simple mistake can have dire consequences.

On 7/4/2025 at 11:31 AM, TopThai54 said:

Why do Farangs (especially Americans & Australians) always want to buy Properties ! 
Rent ! You can always move if you have unpleasant neighbors or want to relocate to another town ! In many cases Houses or Condos turn to be difficult to sell and/or with a loss ! 

My personal reason is: I want control over my home. As I said to my wife before retiring here, I want the same or better quality of life and accommodation as I had in Australia. I brought my cats over, 30 odd guitars, amps and fun stuff. A condo has no private yard. While my investments have already increased in value (i.e. house near beach), I know many desperate people trying to sell their condos. Some are awfully run down. Yes, the initial investment is cheaper but I have my dream car parked in my dream home powered for free by solar cells. You can't do that in a condo... that's my humble take on it.

2 hours ago, ZigM said:

In answer to your question, although you own the condo on paper (i.e. the rooms in your apartment), you do not own the land. As 51% of the condos must be owned by Thais, you must abide by decisions of the body corporate. You are subject to clauses in the body corporate agreement. Read and understand them.

My sincere advice to anyone who really wants to live in Thailand forever is 1. not to buy a condo unless you like small, often poorly constructed and overpriced digs. They lose fast in value and there are too many being built. 2. If you rent, the rent will inevitably increase over time so that buying might be a better option if you intend to stay here forever. 3. Yes, I know, non-Thais are not permitted to own any land. My lazy adult Thai children could have bought everything for me in their name, but they want nothing to do with Thailand. They don't want to come here. Therefore everything is in my Thai wife's name. 4. I have a usufruct over my house and land until I die. The entry into the title deed is for free. I am essentially the de-facto owner of this land and the house on it until I die. If I live 100 years, it's mine for 100 years. There is no 30 year limit. It is until I die. 5. If my son does eventually make it over here, my wife will transfer all assets into his name. However, the usufruct remains intact. 6. The chief registrar at the Land Titles Office suggested to my wife today that we put everything in a legal will and not rely on a prenuptial agreement. This was in response to me forking out many millions for my wife to be able to buy and transfer an estate just this morning. The previous heirs had to go to court because the previous Thai owner (and her foreign husband) did not have a proper will in place and the estate had to be split in three (some of the money will go to overseas heirs). Once I die, I want two of the three Thai assets that I paid 100% for over the years to go to my Thai children from a previous marriage who don't live in Thailand. One asset and the car goes to my wife. All money in my bank account goes to my son. Although this is already all in the prenup, it is better making it 100% legal in a will. Since the Thai Inheritance Act does not discriminate against foreigners, anyone can inherit land - even me - but I can't never transfer it into my name. My children, on the other hand, have no such restrictions because they have three citizenships - including Thai. Although I trust my wife 100%, I don't trust Thai bearcats. The Land Titles Office put down the previous heir in error as my wife's husband on the transfer documents this morning - and not me. My wife gets so impatient when I read through pages of stuff that Thai bureaucrats want me to sign. But I keep on picking up errors. Anyone who wants to go down the road of no return and die here, do your homework, speak to knowledgeable people and check every single document. Even Thai people don't know how to spell my wife's name correctly - and most Thais don't check documents. They are impatient and hastily put documents in front of you to sign. But a simple mistake can have dire consequences.

As a condo owner in Thailand, you do own your share of the property under it.

4 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

As a condo owner in Thailand, you do own your share of the property under it.

You are correct, yes, in a freehold condo, ownership of the unit includes a portion of the common property (even for a non-Thai), which includes the land. However, this is not so in a leasehold condo. However, once foreign ownership is obtained it is not freely transferable between foreigners (not even by inheritance) and the Thailand Land Registry only allows registration of ownership to another foreigner if he/she is eligible for ownership pursuant to the Condominium Act. The limited right of foreign freehold ownership ends at death of the foreigner who qualified for ownership under the Condominium Act. Foreign freehold ownership of a condominium is not automatically transferable by inheritance to another foreigner. Therefore, in my view, the foreigner effectively still only has a leasehold arrangement at best as he/she cannot do what he/she wants with the condo during their life time and any rights end upon death. When it comes to inheritance by foreigners, the Condominium Act is also not foreign friendly and in general foreign heirs must dispose of the unit acquired by last will or succession laws within 1 year of the date of acquisition by inheritance. It's a little more complicated than that, but to me, the foreigner still does not own the land (or the condo) in any meaningful way. It's a ruse that might look appealing on paper to attract foreign investment but in actual fact, if your rights are severely restricted and end with your death, at least for me, it's not worth it. But that's for every individual to decide.

10 hours ago, ZigM said:

My personal reason is: I want control over my home. As I said to my wife before retiring here, I want the same or better quality of life and accommodation as I had in Australia. I brought my cats over, 30 odd guitars, amps and fun stuff. A condo has no private yard. While my investments have already increased in value (i.e. house near beach), I know many desperate people trying to sell their condos. Some are awfully run down. Yes, the initial investment is cheaper but I have my dream car parked in my dream home powered for free by solar cells. You can't do that in a condo... that's my humble take on it.

Obviously you (personally) don't have full control over your home as you don't own it freehold (at best you own the House, not the land) but I take your point that if you have a lot of stuff (+ a couple of cats, though Condos like the Rivieras & Palm will let you keep cats & a small dog) a house is a better option for you.

I appreciate you trust your wife so for all intents & purposes you have control now but if (heaven forbid) anything should happen to her at best you've got a year to sell up.

Have to disagree with the statement about the initial investment in a Condo being cheaper, for the price I'm looking to pay I could buy 2 x 4br/4bth houses (obviously with the land in my GF's name or worse a company name) but I don't want to be out in the sticks & have to drive so (for my personal reasons) buying a Condo is better for me.

As always, to each his own... But buying a Condo will be in my name & I will own the Unit freehold.

Just now, SamSpade said:

Obviously you (personally) don't have full control over your home as you don't own it freehold (at best you own the House, not the land) but I take your point that if you have a lot of stuff (+ a couple of cats, though Condos like the Rivieras & Palm will let you keep cats & a small dog) a house is a better option for you.

I appreciate you trust your wife so for all intents & purposes you have control now but if (heaven forbid) anything should happen to her at best you've got a year to sell up.

Have to disagree with the statement about the initial investment in a Condo being cheaper, for the price I'm looking to pay I could buy 2 x 4br/4bth houses (obviously with the land in my GF's name or worse a company name) but I don't want to be out in the sticks & have to drive so (for my personal reasons) buying a Condo is better for me.

As always, to each his own... But buying a Condo will be in my name & I will own the Unit freehold.

I'm listed on the title deed (usufruct) as the person who has full control over house and land beneath it (although I can't sell it - just as you can't sell your freehold condo to anyone you want). Even if my wife dies before me, this arrangement is in place until I die and it cannot be revoked, regardless who owns the land legally after she dies. No one can evict me from (my) land. One day, when my son decides to come to Thailand for a visit (hopefully soon), everything will be transferred into his name as he's a Thai citizen. This outcome is still not equality and full control over something I paid for with my own money but that's the only option. My wife and I will make a legal will shortly so that if my wife dies before me (I hope not) that my son inherits the bulk of everything. The condos that I looked at initially were around a million baht. My house plus renovations cost me 5 million.

5 minutes ago, ZigM said:

I'm listed on the title deed (usufruct) as the person who has full control over house and land beneath it (although I can't sell it - just as you can't sell your freehold condo to anyone you want). Even if my wife dies before me, this arrangement is in place until I die and it cannot be revoked, regardless who owns the land legally after she dies. No one can evict me from (my) land. One day, when my son decides to come to Thailand for a visit (hopefully soon), everything will be transferred into his name as he's a Thai citizen. This outcome is still not equality and full control over something I paid for with my own money but that's the only option. My wife and I will make a legal will shortly so that if my wife dies before me (I hope not) that my son inherits the bulk of everything. The condos that I looked at initially were around a million baht. My house plus renovations cost me 5 million.

Whilst an Usufruct means you can live in the property for as long as you live, you cannot own the Land so you either have 1 year to sell it or accept that it belongs to somebody else, if you want to leave it to your Son then you don't need to wait for him to visit Thailand as you can simply specify this in your (and your Wife's) will, he doesn't need to be present or sign anything but if you're transferring the property across to him are you sure the Usufruct will still apply (obviously you can sign a new one with him) - Normally when transferring a property you cannot transfer any "Obligations" across to the new owner unless they sign up to them.

Of course I can sell my Freehold Condo to anybody that will buy it, if I die & leave it to my British Son then (in most circumstances) he will inherit it in the Foreign quota, if I leave it to my Thai GF then she will inherit it in the Thai Quota - Doesn't mean a Foreigner cannot buy it & can (if Quota is available which it should be as my Unit would be freeing it up) get it registered in the Foreign Quota (As long as they remit the funds in from Overseas). To be clear if there's Foreign Quota available then Units can be bought under it even if it's currently under Thai or Company Quota only requirement is funds are brought in from overseas.

Yes you can find condos for <1Million THB but you can also find them for several hundred million THB, I'm looking for 2br 2bth around the Wongamat/North Pattaya area & I doubt I could find anything (Even in Thai Name) below 7Million, anything I would buy (In Foreign Quota) would be >12Million, the units I'm looking at in Once Wongamat are approx 23-25Million.

I get that this is a lot of money, but again, to each his own & the Condo life in Town Center without having to deal with the downsides (in particular Noise) of living in a Town Center is what works for me.

5 hours ago, ZigM said:

You are correct, yes, in a freehold condo, ownership of the unit includes a portion of the common property (even for a non-Thai), which includes the land. However, this is not so in a leasehold condo. However, once foreign ownership is obtained it is not freely transferable between foreigners (not even by inheritance) and the Thailand Land Registry only allows registration of ownership to another foreigner if he/she is eligible for ownership pursuant to the Condominium Act. The limited right of foreign freehold ownership ends at death of the foreigner who qualified for ownership under the Condominium Act. Foreign freehold ownership of a condominium is not automatically transferable by inheritance to another foreigner. Therefore, in my view, the foreigner effectively still only has a leasehold arrangement at best as he/she cannot do what he/she wants with the condo during their life time and any rights end upon death. When it comes to inheritance by foreigners, the Condominium Act is also not foreign friendly and in general foreign heirs must dispose of the unit acquired by last will or succession laws within 1 year of the date of acquisition by inheritance. It's a little more complicated than that, but to me, the foreigner still does not own the land (or the condo) in any meaningful way. It's a ruse that might look appealing on paper to attract foreign investment but in actual fact, if your rights are severely restricted and end with your death, at least for me, it's not worth it. But that's for every individual to decide.

Leasehold is leasehold, Thai or Non-Thais are treated the same.

Yes, non-Thais, can only sell their condo to people that are qualified to own it, again, just like a Thai.

Yes, if someone inherits a property/condo and is not qualified to own it. they have a year to sell it.

6 minutes ago, ZigM said:

In answer to your question, although you own the condo on paper (i.e. the rooms in your apartment), you do not own the land. As 51% of the condos must be owned by Thais, you must abide by decisions of the body corporate. You are subject to clauses in the body corporate agreement. Read and understand them.

My sincere advice to anyone who really wants to live in Thailand forever is 1. not to buy a condo unless you like small, often poorly constructed and overpriced digs. They lose fast in value and there are too many being built. 2. If you rent, the rent will inevitably increase over time so that buying might be a better option if you intend to stay here forever. 3. Yes, I know, non-Thais are not permitted to own any land. My lazy adult Thai children could have bought everything for me in their name, but they want nothing to do with Thailand. They don't want to come here. Therefore everything is in my Thai wife's name. 4. I have a usufruct over my house and land until I die. The entry into the title deed is for free. I am essentially the de-facto owner of this land and the house on it until I die. If I live 100 years, it's mine for 100 years. There is no 30 year limit. It is until I die. 5. If my son does eventually make it over here, my wife will transfer all assets into his name. However, the usufruct remains intact. 6. The chief registrar at the Land Titles Office suggested to my wife today that we put everything in a legal will and not rely on a prenuptial agreement. This was in response to me forking out many millions for my wife to be able to buy and transfer an estate just this morning. The previous heirs had to go to court because the previous Thai owner (and her foreign husband) did not have a proper will in place and the estate had to be split in three (some of the money will go to overseas heirs). Once I die, I want two of the three Thai assets that I paid 100% for over the years to go to my Thai children from a previous marriage who don't live in Thailand. One asset and the car goes to my wife. All money in my bank account goes to my son. Although this is already all in the prenup, it is better making it 100% legal in a will. Since the Thai Inheritance Act does not discriminate against foreigners, anyone can inherit land - even me - but I can't never transfer it into my name. My children, on the other hand, have no such restrictions because they have three citizenships - including Thai. Although I trust my wife 100%, I don't trust Thai bearcats. The Land Titles Office put down the previous heir in error as my wife's husband on the transfer documents this morning - and not me. My wife gets so impatient when I read through pages of stuff that Thai bureaucrats want me to sign. But I keep on picking up errors. Anyone who wants to go down the road of no return and die here, do your homework, speak to knowledgeable people and check every single document. Even Thai people don't know how to spell my wife's name correctly - and most Thais don't check documents. They are impatient and hastily put documents in front of you to sign. But a simple mistake can have dire consequences.

3 hours ago, ZigM said:

I'm listed on the title deed (usufruct) as the person who has full control over house and land beneath it (although I can't sell it - just as you can't sell your freehold condo to anyone you want). Even if my wife dies before me, this arrangement is in place until I die and it cannot be revoked, regardless who owns the land legally after she dies. No one can evict me from (my) land. One day, when my son decides to come to Thailand for a visit (hopefully soon), everything will be transferred into his name as he's a Thai citizen. This outcome is still not equality and full control over something I paid for with my own money but that's the only option. My wife and I will make a legal will shortly so that if my wife dies before me (I hope not) that my son inherits the bulk of everything. The condos that I looked at initially were around a million baht. My house plus renovations cost me 5 million.

I've sold at least 18 freehold condos I have owned--in Rayong, Pattaya, and Bangkok, so I think it is incorrect to say that 'you can't sell your freehold condo to anyone you want'. I certainly did--18 or more times. Basically, I sold to anyone who showed up with the cash. A couple were Thai,the rest were foreigners. All the condos were sold at a profit. It's true that for the foreigners they needed to produce an FET at the Land Office and if they were buying in Foreign Quota the FQ needed to be available but that's about all that was required. All but one of the condos were in FQ and there wasn't a problem selling in FQ to the new buyer with any of them.

3 hours ago, ZigM said:

I'm listed on the title deed (usufruct) as the person who has full control over house and land beneath it (although I can't sell it - just as you can't sell your freehold condo to anyone you want). Even if my wife dies before me, this arrangement is in place until I die and it cannot be revoked, regardless who owns the land legally after she dies. No one can evict me from (my) land. One day, when my son decides to come to Thailand for a visit (hopefully soon), everything will be transferred into his name as he's a Thai citizen. This outcome is still not equality and full control over something I paid for with my own money but that's the only option. My wife and I will make a legal will shortly so that if my wife dies before me (I hope not) that my son inherits the bulk of everything. The condos that I looked at initially were around a million baht. My house plus renovations cost me 5 million.

You say that you "...can't sell it - just as you can't sell your freehold condo to anyone you want..." which is not at all the same thing.

No one can sell a condo property to anyone they want. Anyone buying a condo or property must be qualified to own the condo or property.

Who can you sell your usufruct to?

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

You say that you "...can't sell it - just as you can't sell your freehold condo to anyone you want..." which is not at all the same thing.

No one can sell a condo property to anyone they want. Anyone buying a condo or property must be qualified to own the condo or property.

Who can you sell your usufruct to?

I feel like you and ZigM are both still leaving the false impression to a reader that it would be difficult to resell a condo in Thailand to a new buyer when you both make statements like 'No one can sell a condo to anyone they want'. And, the buyer 'must be qualified to own the condo or property'.

The first statement implies that a condo seller is limited from the get-go to only certain buyers and is not allowed to sell to others. Ditto for the second statement, which is also so vague--someone unfamiliar might take that to mean the buyer must meet a lot of different, perhaps difficult qualifications, have a certain type of visa or nationality, be interviewed as to their 'qualifications', be approved to buy by this or that condo board or government agency, and so on.

The reality, as I said before, is the new foreign buyer only needs the money and the FET. If buying in FQ, FQ must be available. And, I'd call the FET a requirement rather than a qualification.

The 18 or more FQ resales that I did were all quite easy, and certainly lightyears simpler than the condo sales I did in the US--the contracts there ran to 30 or more pages, with a CYA page for just about anything that might come up as a problem later. As a buyer and seller in Thailand, I can remember only one hitch on a transaction, when there was a couple hours delay while the seller got the condo project's approval to sell letter.

As a seller, you don't even need to be in Thailand to put your condo up for sale. You don't even need to come to Thailand for the sales transaction at the Land Office. You can use a Power of Attorney for both the sale and the transfer. You can even be out of Thailand, own a condo that is blocked for sale because you owe years of back condo fees, and still have someone in Thailand untangle it all for you, handle everything, and send you the money you are owed after the sale has gone through, with you not setting a foot in Thailand at any point in the process.

3 minutes ago, newnative said:

I feel like you and ZigM are both still leaving the false impression to a reader that it would be difficult to resell a condo in Thailand to a new buyer when you both make statements like 'No one can sell a condo to anyone they want'. And, the buyer 'must be qualified to own the condo or property'.

The first statement implies that a condo seller is limited from the get-go to only certain buyers and is not allowed to sell to others. Ditto for the second statement, which is also so vague--someone unfamiliar might take that to mean the buyer must meet a lot of different, perhaps difficult qualifications, have a certain type of visa or nationality, be interviewed as to their 'qualifications', be approved to buy by this or that condo board or government agency, and so on.

The reality, as I said before, is the new foreign buyer only needs the money and the FET. If buying in FQ, FQ must be available. And, I'd call the FET a requirement rather than a qualification.

The 18 or more FQ resales that I did were all quite easy, and certainly lightyears simpler than the condo sales I did in the US--the contracts there ran to 30 or more pages, with a CYA page for just about anything that might come up as a problem later. As a buyer and seller in Thailand, I can remember only one hitch on a transaction, when there was a couple hours delay while the seller got the condo project's approval to sell letter.

As a seller, you don't even need to be in Thailand to put your condo up for sale. You don't even need to come to Thailand for the sales transaction at the Land Office. You can use a Power of Attorney for both the sale and the transfer. You can even be out of Thailand, own a condo that is blocked for sale because you owe years of back condo fees, and still have someone in Thailand untangle it all for you, handle everything, and send you the money you are owed after the sale has gone through, with you not setting a foot in Thailand at any point in the process.

I never said nor meant to imply that selling a condo or property is difficult.

Can you sell a condo legally to someone that is in the county illegally?

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I never said nor meant to imply that selling a condo or property is difficult.

Can you sell a condo legally to someone that is in the county illegally?

You can sell a condo legally to a buyer not even in the country. And, as I said in my previous post, a seller need not be in the country, either. I don't recall visa status ever coming up with any of our numerous condo buy and sells. Our sales contracts had copies of the buyer and seller's passport photo page only for identification purposes. I don't know if the Land Office checks visa status--never came up as an issue. I would think if you are here illegally you would be keeping your head down and not be calling attention to yourself with any government officials.