My 3rd Long Overstay Aka: Land Of Smiles

[PeaceBlondie]

There are plenty of long-term overstayers here, and they're not all in the backwoods country. My neighbor in the condo got busted by Immigration Police after an ungodly overstay - 14 years, I think. Obviously, he saved a lot of money in those years (during which his passport might have expired), but then he had to pay (by my ignorant estimate) a few hundred thousand baht to hire a lawyer, stay out of the IDC, go get a proper visa, etc.

The work permit is almost a separate issue. You can be perfectly legal with visa and passport, and Thai driver license and vehicle insurance and registration, and in good relations with the watermelon vendor, without ever having a work permit, even if you're working for the Thai government!!

[tropo]

I would guess the real price of visa runs for a year to be around 35,000baht/year to be realistic.

Your post lead me to calculate the cost of a tourist visa/free-entry combo for a year and I ended up at just over 35,000. That's flying to Penang and taking coaches to the border, and keeping accomodation costs in the low budget zone while in Penang.

Do you make contingency plans for the possiblitly of being caught, detained and deported? i.e. having a friend available to help you through the process of purchasing a ticket home and packing up and storing your stuff if you ended up in the detention facility.

Edited August 11, 2007 by tropo

[ignis]

Quote: What's this with 20,000 baht being cheap? I pay 1,900 baht per year for my non-o visa extension. Add maybe 100 baht for photo copies max, but that's it.

It's a hassle, that's for sure but it's not that expensive ... and it's legal....

Sorry Not 100% true... Sure 1,900 baht is for the Visa extension + Letter from Bank 300 baht + loads photo copies.... For me 100 km round trip in my car..... so hard to find a parking place, I now park at the Bank 200 baht + taxi 45 baht each way + reporting every 90 days, I do by Post EMS = 44 baht each time.. REAL cost is 3,300 baht per year

Lets not forget we have to have 800,000 baht in a Thai Bank, which only earns 2.7% [other investments earn 8% or more in Thailand, but not accepted by immigration]

ADD that loss to the 3,300 baht = far more than what you suggest for those of us that are legal

[tropo]

The average cost per month for a legal visa is 2,000 baht per month (combo tourist and 30 day visa waver - visa runs via luxury coach). 67 baht per day. For this price you do not have to worry about looking over your shoulder and you have freedom to travel outside of the country at your pleasure.

It seems we all just create our own prisons.

2,000baht per month to sit on a bus for the whole day and not have anything to eat and not be able to buy anything ( I would not feel comfortable leaving and returning to the country without spending 3,000baht+) and have to show 20,000baht in the bank and miss time from work, etc...

I would guess the real price of visa runs for a year to be around 35,000baht/year to be realistic.

I don't think you calculating real costs. The 60 day tourist visa is 1000 baht(100 ringgit) and its 1900 baht for 30 day extension. How much was your bus or plane, lodging, food, entry visa to Laos, VN if applicable. I go to KL from CM via AirAsia and they cheapest I can do it is about 4000 baht a month.

From Pattaya I calculate 35,200 for a year doing it frugally. It included the cheapest Cambodia visa run service x 6 (1,700 + bus scam ticket 200). Penang visa run twice a year (just under 10,000 each run including taxis to and from Suvarnabhumi [flight times don't allow bus travel]).

3,000 per month.

There's no guarantee of continuing this method either as rules are always changing.

[Gary A]

To each his own. I'm sure none of us who stay legal enjoy jumping through the hoops, BUT, we can sleep well at night. You do it your way and I'll continue to jump through the hoops.

[torrenova]

If they did away with the 50 year old retirement age they would make a lot of people happy and keep a lot more cash in Thailand that is now spent on meaningless visas to countries you visit for 10 minutes.

[rainman]

I somewhat feel sorry for those who overstay without the intention to do so, but for those who do it on purpose, I have no sympathy, words or advice. Sorry, you're a criminal whether you like it or not.

[tropo]

I somewhat feel sorry for those who overstay without the intention to do so, but for those who do it on purpose, I have no sympathy, words or advice. Sorry, you're a criminal whether you like it or not.

An opinion not shared by the Thai Immigration Officers because they had no problems letting him back in twice. It's an activity that really doesn't seem to have many serious repercussions.

[rainman]

An opinion not shared by the Thai Immigration Officers because they had no problems letting him back in twice. It's an activity that really doesn't seem to have many serious repercussions.

Quite possible, but for all you know he could get arrested on the 4th time for having previously violated the law 3 times in a row and then even get a few years in jail before being deported. Being aware of the law and violating it on purpose makes you a criminal.

There are thousands of foreigners staying in Thailand on tourist visas or border runs. Sure it's not the most appropriate thing, but at least they're here legally. And if you don't even have Baht 20,000 to show every month to get a new visa, like the thread starter mentioned, please please please for your own good go back to your home country, get a job, make some money and then come back. If you don't even have that much money to keep you afloat it's just a matter of time until you're in an even bigger hole.

[tropo]

Quite possible, but for all you know he could get arrested on the 4th time for having previously violated the law 3 times in a row and then even get a few years in jail before being deported. Being aware of the law and violating it on purpose makes you a criminal.

There are thousands of foreigners staying in Thailand on tourist visas or border runs. Sure it's not the most appropriate thing, but at least they're here legally. And if you don't even have Baht 20,000 to show every month to get a new visa, like the thread starter mentioned, please please please for your own good go back to your home country, get a job, make some money and then come back. If you don't even have that much money to keep you afloat it's just a matter of time until you're in an even bigger hole.

Some people are comfortable with taking risks. He knows the risks and takes them in his stride. I don't believe jail time (apart from detention before deportation) is yet a possibility here for an overstay.

I say good luck to him and it helps to test the waters for other people looking for cheaper alternatives.

[rainman]

Some people are comfortable with taking risks. He knows the risks and takes them in his stride. I don't believe jail time (apart from detention before deportation) is yet a possibility here for an overstay.

I say good luck to him and it helps to test the waters for other people looking for cheaper alternatives.

I bet he's one of those extreme sports guys that bungee jump without the rope.

[A_Traveller]

Whilst it is illegal, the official attitude of pay the fine and no repercussions, i.e., not blacklisted, mean that one can, without condoning, understand the attitude of some foreigners who take the overstay route.

Whilst not the case herein, one does have to note that the changing of the day rate to 500 without amending, I believe for legal procedural reasons, the maximum fine only acerbates this position. As I mentioned during the run up to last August's amendments, I was surprised that an amnesty was not offered for overstayers allowing people to get their position stabilised and then amending the law to provide for more deterrent punishments for overstays, with those who failed to avail themselves of said amnesty being penalised the most severely.

Regards

[naka]

Whilst it is illegal, the official attitude of pay the fine and no repercussions, i.e., not blacklisted, mean that one can, without condoning, understand the attitude of some foreigners who take the overstay route.

Whilst not the case herein, one does have to note that the changing of the day rate to 500 without amending, I believe for legal procedural reasons, the maximum fine only acerbates this position. As I mentioned during the run up to last August's amendments, I was surprised that an amnesty was not offered for overstayers allowing people to get their position stabilised and then amending the law to provide for more deterrent punishments for overstays, with those who failed to avail themselves of said amnesty being penalised the most severely.

Regards

Thai immigration have not historically 'shown their hand' so who's to say they wont

just decide one day to up the overstay to say Bt 200,000 ? Things are a changin !

Don't have it ... no problem ... off we go then ... No! you cant go back to lock your condo door

and pick up some clean clothes !

I really do not know how to answer those who say it is too expensive to stay here legally ... I simply dont.

Naka.

Edited August 11, 2007 by naka

[solo siam]

I somewhat feel sorry for those who overstay without the intention to do so, but for those who do it on purpose, I have no sympathy, words or advice. Sorry, you're a criminal whether you like it or not.

An opinion not shared by the Thai Immigration Officers because they had no problems letting him back in twice. It's an activity that really doesn't seem to have many serious repercussions.

Thai Immigration are not the Police, if the police find you with an overstay, you go to prison.

Thai Prison sounds fairly serious to me.

[lopburi3]

The law Immigration Act 2522

Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with permission expired or revoked

shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or

both.

[Phil Conners]

Quote: What's this with 20,000 baht being cheap? I pay 1,900 baht per year for my non-o visa extension. Add maybe 100 baht for photo copies max, but that's it.

It's a hassle, that's for sure but it's not that expensive ... and it's legal....

Sorry Not 100% true... Sure 1,900 baht is for the Visa extension + Letter from Bank 300 baht + loads photo copies.... For me 100 km round trip in my car..... so hard to find a parking place, I now park at the Bank 200 baht + taxi 45 baht each way + reporting every 90 days, I do by Post EMS = 44 baht each time.. REAL cost is 3,300 baht per year

Lets not forget we have to have 800,000 baht in a Thai Bank, which only earns 2.7% [other investments earn 8% or more in Thailand, but not accepted by immigration]

ADD that loss to the 3,300 baht = far more than what you suggest for those of us that are legal

You're right, I forgot the 300 baht for the bank letter, and I'll also giver you the other bits giving a total of 3,300 ... still a lot less than 20,000.

I only have to have 400K in the bank (non-o by marriage) and that's spent in two months anyway so no big deal.

[tropo]

Some people are comfortable with taking risks. He knows the risks and takes them in his stride. I don't believe jail time (apart from detention before deportation) is yet a possibility here for an overstay.

I say good luck to him and it helps to test the waters for other people looking for cheaper alternatives.

I bet he's one of those extreme sports guys that bungee jump without the rope.

Personally I don't overstay and stay legal at all times while I'm in Thailand and don't endorse the OPs tactics, however if people want to push the envelope it makes for interesting reading.

If I was faced with the dilemma of not being able to get a visa then I'd leave the country and live elsewhere rather than stay here illegally.

Edited August 11, 2007 by tropo

[tropo]

Thai immigration have not historically 'shown their hand' so who's to say they wont

just decide one day to up the overstay to say Bt 200,000 ? Things are a changin !

That's a good point Naka. There's always a risk of Thai Immigration changing things overnight.

[ovenman]

Thai immigration have not historically 'shown their hand' so who's to say they wont just decide one day to up the overstay to say Bt 200,000 ? Things are a changin !

That's a good point Naka. There's always a risk of Thai Immigration changing things overnight.

There is not only the potential for higher fines. As I said above, the powers-that-be could, on a moment's notice, decide that overstayers simply cannot return to the kingdom. Many countries treat overstaying seriously in that the overstayers are not welcome back.

[Jersey_UK]

I am kinda puzzled at the reaction of some to this thread.............sure it is risky to overstay for a number years, but OP is clearly not advocating this course of action - just recounting his experiance. What's wrong with learning?

[Jingthing]

I can see fines and deportations for overstays. But, jail, I am sorry, that is way too harsh. I really don't understand why they do that. It costs money to jail people, it is bad PR. Many countries are much more lenient on visa violators. I do think Thailand is extreme in this regard. I wonder how many people have died in jail because of what I view as a minor violation. Compared to violent crimes, drug dealing, etc.

Edited August 11, 2007 by Jingthing

[A_Traveller]

I can see fines and deportations for overstays. But, jail, I am sorry, that is way too harsh. I really don't understand why they do that. It costs money to jail people, it is bad PR. Many countries are much more lenient on visa violators. I do think Thailand is extreme in this regard. I wonder how many people have died in jail because of what I view as a minor violation. Compared to violent crimes, drug dealing, etc.

Thread

Regards

[tropo]

I can see fines and deportations for overstays. But, jail, I am sorry, that is way too harsh. I really don't understand why they do that. It costs money to jail people, it is bad PR. Many countries are much more lenient on visa violators. I do think Thailand is extreme in this regard. I wonder how many people have died in jail because of what I view as a minor violation. Compared to violent crimes, drug dealing, etc.

Thread

Regards

IF the story is true, he was jailed for a different reason. i.e. forging (altering) the date on his passport.

Are there any 'stories' about people being given prison sentences for overstaying?

Edited August 11, 2007 by tropo

[Joe Walshe]

I understand that Thailands visa rules apply to all nationalities. It is reasonable to presume there are tens of thousands of Cambodian, Burmese, Bangladeshi, etc. people here without visas and other nationalities who got visas but have overstayed. It's not practical to jail everyone.

On another point, I often wonder what would happen to farang retirees who on getting older and maybe poorer (and having burnt all their bridges on moving here) find they can't comply with visa regulations. or the immigration rules change or they can't meet requirements so they live out their days lying low in Nakhon Nowhere. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens already. Surely it would be in the Thai authorities interest to turn a blind eye to this. You don't want to be seen putting 80 year olds in prison or deporting them with crying Thai wives in background.

[britmaveric]

80 year olds in prison or deporting them with crying Thai wives in background.

Who says they would be crying???

[LPCustom69]

I agree, and we will probably see changes to that effect in the future. My guess is that it will go to at least 1000 baht a day, and there's nothing to stop them from making it 5000 baht a day, 200K maximum, AND blacklisting. All that they are asking is that we be legal. The acts of a few who disregard basic rules, will cause attitudes that hurt all in the long run.

Whilst it is illegal, the official attitude of pay the fine and no repercussions, i.e., not blacklisted, mean that one can, without condoning, understand the attitude of some foreigners who take the overstay route.

Whilst not the case herein, one does have to note that the changing of the day rate to 500 without amending, I believe for legal procedural reasons, the maximum fine only acerbates this position. As I mentioned during the run up to last August's amendments, I was surprised that an amnesty was not offered for overstayers allowing people to get their position stabilised and then amending the law to provide for more deterrent punishments for overstays, with those who failed to avail themselves of said amnesty being penalised the most severely.

Regards

Thai immigration have not historically 'shown their hand' so who's to say they wont

just decide one day to up the overstay to say Bt 200,000 ? Things are a changin !

Don't have it ... no problem ... off we go then ... No! you cant go back to lock your condo door

and pick up some clean clothes !

I really do not know how to answer those who say it is too expensive to stay here legally ... I simply dont.

Naka.

[tropo]

The acts of a few who disregard basic rules, will cause attitudes that hurt all in the long run.

Do you think the acts of a few overstaying Farangs has much bearing on the overall problem? I doubt that very much.

There's probably tens of thousands of Cambodians, Burmese, Vietnamese and Laotians overstaying in Thailand.

[LPCustom69]

The acts of a few who disregard basic rules, will cause attitudes that hurt all in the long run.

Do you think the acts of a few overstaying Farangs has much bearing on the overall problem? I doubt that very much.

There's probably tens of thousands of Cambodians, Burmese, Vietnamese and Laotians overstaying in Thailand.

You're probably right. I was referring to it in regard to farang overstayers, which is what we were talking about.

[Matt the Cat]

miss time from work, etc...

So we can assume you are working without the proper paperwork as well?

The authorities rarely if ever check for work permits apparently thinking that harassing the non-o retires with only the desire to spend their money here in peace as the correct approach to handling this problem.

[tracker]

I thank the OP for an interesting read, and I thank the forum-hosting-people for letting this thread pass.

Interesting to read how many people follow rules and the fear they invoke by the thought of not following them. Also interesting are the people of the other side.

Makes me think; what is free!?