My 3rd Long Overstay Aka: Land Of Smiles

[A_Traveller]

I can see fines and deportations for overstays. But, jail, I am sorry, that is way too harsh. I really don't understand why they do that. It costs money to jail people, it is bad PR. Many countries are much more lenient on visa violators. I do think Thailand is extreme in this regard. I wonder how many people have died in jail because of what I view as a minor violation. Compared to violent crimes, drug dealing, etc.

Thread

Regards

IF the story is true, he was jailed for a different reason. i.e. forging (altering) the date on his passport.

Are there any 'stories' about people being given prison sentences for overstaying?

If you took time to search you will find the individual's [Prince Christoff Hohenlohe] obituary, it is true.

I read Jingthing's post more generally, "visa violators... died in jail.." rather than the singular specific, which I accept may have been his intent. On overstay and prison {excepting detention} I've not heard of any jail sentences being awarded.

Regards

[baboon]

If the Authorities decided they had had enough with overstaying and make an example of someone I reckon that person would be me, [knowing my luck] which is why I would not overstay.

[chrisspursbkk1]

What is the point you are trying to make - or are you a troll?

Yes chris. which of my points don't you agree with?

Don't make a reference towards me as me being a troll, i was just telling a story that i heared. //edit//

[sriracha john]

I can see fines and deportations for overstays. But, jail, I am sorry, that is way too harsh. I really don't understand why they do that. It costs money to jail people, it is bad PR. Many countries are much more lenient on visa violators. I do think Thailand is extreme in this regard. I wonder how many people have died in jail because of what I view as a minor violation. Compared to violent crimes, drug dealing, etc.

Thread

Regards

IF the story is true, he was jailed for a different reason. i.e. forging (altering) the date on his passport.

Are there any 'stories' about people being given prison sentences for overstaying?

If you took time to search you will find the individual's [Prince Christoff Hohenlohe] obituary, it is true.

I read Jingthing's post more generally, "visa violators... died in jail.." rather than the singular specific, which I accept may have been his intent. On overstay and prison {excepting detention} I've not heard of any jail sentences being awarded.

Regards

Indeed, the sad case of the Prince dying in jail due to apparent negligent actions on the part of the correctional facility staff was quite disturbing.... but he wasn't officially given this "death sentence" for altering a single digit on his entry stamp by a few days.

It was indictment of the jail and medical staff more so than a sanctioned confinement order that he be put to death.

[torrenova]

Some strange views on this thread. Seems that some think people who bend or break even the smallest law should all be locked up or worse. I wonder if they ever broke a law, maybe at college, underage drinking etc. Sorry, get down off your high moral ground.

Some people just get unlucky. I know one guy, married to his Thai wife, lived with her and had 2 kids in South Africa and then came to Buriram to set up a fish farm and build a house. He wasn;t rich but she robbed him, left the kids with him etc. He got back his car and the house (don't ask, somehow) but lost most of his cash on her and lawyers. He was just about making ends meet and then they change the 30 day visa jumps in October last year. Now maybe he could have done something but certainly he didn;t have cash for a lawyer or big fees etc. He left back to SA and his kids with him. Just didn't have the cash to comply (I know that sounds simple but it was to him).

Another guy in Cha Am would love to go legal and get all work permitted up but there are too many hoops and salary requirements. So he works for a credible 30-40k, room, motorbike and does visa runs but he is illegal technically.

You see it is nice and easy to be married to someone whose company sets it all up or even the ex pat yourself or even rich but not everyone falls into those categories. Just because you can jump through all the hoops doesn't mean that they are fair or equitable. For starters, people don't need mega salaries to live here and thus make it easier and cheaper to get a WP and collect some tax ! Why do you have to be 50 to retire ? Stupid idea. Why do you need 65k for a retirement visa whether you own your own house / condo ? Another stupid figure. Why if you are married to a Thai is it 40k ?

I don't advocate being here illegally but just condemning people who are not as "holy as thou" is really saying that they are just not as lucky as you.

[LPCustom69]

Some strange views on this thread. Seems that some think people who bend or break even the smallest law should all be locked up or worse. I wonder if they ever broke a law, maybe at college, underage drinking etc. Sorry, get down off your high moral ground.

Some people just get unlucky. I know one guy, married to his Thai wife, lived with her and had 2 kids in South Africa and then came to Buriram to set up a fish farm and build a house. He wasn;t rich but she robbed him, left the kids with him etc. He got back his car and the house (don't ask, somehow) but lost most of his cash on her and lawyers. He was just about making ends meet and then they change the 30 day visa jumps in October last year. Now maybe he could have done something but certainly he didn;t have cash for a lawyer or big fees etc. He left back to SA and his kids with him. Just didn't have the cash to comply (I know that sounds simple but it was to him).

Another guy in Cha Am would love to go legal and get all work permitted up but there are too many hoops and salary requirements. So he works for a credible 30-40k, room, motorbike and does visa runs but he is illegal technically.

You see it is nice and easy to be married to someone whose company sets it all up or even the ex pat yourself or even rich but not everyone falls into those categories. Just because you can jump through all the hoops doesn't mean that they are fair or equitable. For starters, people don't need mega salaries to live here and thus make it easier and cheaper to get a WP and collect some tax ! Why do you have to be 50 to retire ? Stupid idea. Why do you need 65k for a retirement visa whether you own your own house / condo ? Another stupid figure. Why if you are married to a Thai is it 40k ?

I don't advocate being here illegally but just condemning people who are not as "holy as thou" is really saying that they are just not as lucky as you.

I agree with a lot of what you say. However, we are guests here, and are supposed to follow their laws, or risk consequences. I think that it will get worse before it gets better. I think that whatever rules they put into effect this October, and probably next October, will determine what a lot of people choose to do.

In our home countries, you can retire whenever you have enough money to make that choice, and pay your bills. But most have to work long past 50 to receive their pensions, etc. Just because it is less expensive here than our home countries doesn't mean that the Thais have to change the laws to enable someone to squeak by. If you can't afford to live, and retire in your home country, at a younger age, maybe the answer is to work? It is possible that in the future Thailand may decide to offer a special type of "visa" to wealthy young retirees. Maybe just pay 500K baht, or so each year for the privilege, and then no worries. I think a lot of people would be willing to pay and avoid the hassles.

Believe me, it could get a lot worse than it is.

[Jingthing]

I agree the Thais or any government are free to make any laws they wish, and enforce them in any way they wish. As guests here, the government deserves respect, or we are indeed bad guests. I also think we should all strive to follow the laws of the land, whether in our home country or as an expat. That is, if we can figure out exactly what they are and guess exactly how they are being enforced, not always clear as we all know.

I think it is still free enough here for us to comment about any of these laws or enforcements and voice our opinions. As non-Thais, we mostly have other options. Back to our home country or perhaps a third country that offers less onerous immigration laws. Things are clearly changing. Thailand isn't as cheap as it was, especially for Americans. Also, something is clearly in the air in Thailand that is sending a more unwelcoming message to farang expats. We all must choose how to react and adapt to this based on our own best self interest.

As far as doing long overstays, all I can think is that some people have much bigger cajones than me. I couldn't deal with the stress. I would never do that on purpose and if it became necessary for me to do that, I would just leave the country asap. I don't really condemn those who play that game. They are taking a big risk with possibly very bad consequences so I admire the nerve. Objectively, I don't think it is a serious crime in the grand scheme of things. Many countries don't take such things seriously at all only a tiny fine on leaving is levied (Argentina for example).

Edited August 12, 2007 by Jingthing

[ignis]

Why do you need 65k for a retirement visa whether you own your own house / condo ? Another stupid figure.

Fully agree that is why I have the 800,000 on investment in a Thai Bank...

I own my own house and car, paid in full, so my partner pays all the bills....

I personlly spent around 10 -12,000 baht per month, so the 65,000 per month route would not be for me

There is an option as it says 'OR' so you pick which one that is best for you..

[tracker]

government deserves respect!? That remains to be seen. I cannot look into the hearts of the governing people, but since corruption is rampant, i cannot assume either case; clean or corrupt. I just hope for the best.

I respect the country and its people. It is beautiful and I hope it will keep that beauty. A lot of it is replaced by housing and industry which grows at a rampant pace. It fills the wrong pockets, hence the above statement.

But I respect the rules as long as they can be "respectable". I realize (and often are reminded about the fact) that I am a guest, even after pouring here all my saving in almost 10 years and might even be forced (with newcoming rules) to go to the 3 months visa....

With a thai wife, and all my savings now in her name, if feel mistreated... still a guest... Do not get me wrong, I love my wife and I am happy to share everything I have, but still being a guest and subject to change of rules all the time is not in favor for "respect"

sorry... my rant.

[Neeranam]

I agree the Thais or any government are free to make any laws they wish, and enforce them in any way they wish. As guests here, the government deserves respect, or we are indeed bad guests. I also think we should all strive to follow the laws of the land, whether in our home country or as an expat. That is, if we can figure out exactly what they are and guess exactly how they are being enforced, not always clear as we all know.

I think it is still free enough here for us to comment about any of these laws or enforcements and voice our opinions. As non-Thais, we mostly have other options. Back to our home country or perhaps a third country that offers less onerous immigration laws. Things are clearly changing. Thailand isn't as cheap as it was, especially for Americans. Also, something is clearly in the air in Thailand that is sending a more unwelcoming message to farang expats. We all must choose how to react and adapt to this based on our own best self interest.

As far as doing long overstays, all I can think is that some people have much bigger cajones than me. I couldn't deal with the stress. I would never do that on purpose and if it became necessary for me to do that, I would just leave the country asap. I don't really condemn those who play that game. They are taking a big risk with possibly very bad consequences so I admire the nerve. Objectively, I don't think it is a serious crime in the grand scheme of things. Many countries don't take such things seriously at all only a tiny fine on leaving is levied (Argentina for example).

[Super Hans]

I am kinda puzzled at the reaction of some to this thread.............sure it is risky to overstay for a number years, but OP is clearly not advocating this course of action - just recounting his experiance. What's wrong with learning?

Nothing, in my view. Seems to me there's just a lot of people who love "troll-spotting". It's amazing how paranoia stalks the internet - the most free and non-discriminatory invention ever. Quite what kick troll-spotters get is beyond me, but I didn't understand the joys of trainspotting either.