10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you condone antisemites falsely accusing Israel of genocide, yes or no?

I don’t know any antisemites doing that. 
I only listen  to organizations like UN, Save the Children, Oxfam and other human rights groups like BtSelem, who are Israeli 55555. 
 

https://www.btselem.org/publications/202507_our_genocide
 

oh, and amnesty international 

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2025/07/israel-opt-israeli-organizations-conclude-israel-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza-in-another-milestone-for-accountability-efforts/
 

Which reputable human rights agencies deny it is Genocide?

 

 

4 minutes ago, JimCM said:

That war resulted in the occupation of Palestinian territories ,  the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem !!!

 

Israel's capture of these territories violated international law, the Fourth Geneva Convention, which prohibits the acquisition of territory by force.

 

The borders agreed upon before the war have not been respected since.

 

Israel has maintained illegal occupation of Palestinian land, despite repeated calls for a two-state solution and peace negotiations.

6 day war hasn’t made peace, it has caused occupation, settlement expansion, and a continuing cycle of violence and instability in the region.

 

Israel has participated in and agreed to a number of two-state peace deals that Palestinians have refused. 

 

What happened when Isarael turned Gaza over to Palestine? 

 

Palestine openly wants Israel eradicated.

10 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

All the Arab States need to get there act together, enough is enough, Qatar has to be the straw that broke the camels back.

Stop the oil and gas to the Western World until Israel complies with all UN resolutions, tell the US to stick it where the sun don't shine until they and Israel put this right.

Please let the Arab states do this. 

 

Most of them will side with Israel. 

1 minute ago, JimCM said:

Liar, it’s because you think it’s acceptable.

 

   That is  false claim Jim 

I am not lying 

You seem to be trying to drag the thread off topic .

 

Hamas Leaders Survive Israeli Airstrike in Qatar, Confirm Deaths

 

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Israel has participated in and agreed to a number of two-state peace deals that Palestinians have refused. 

 

What happened when Isarael turned Gaza over to Palestine? 

 

Palestine openly wants Israel eradicated.

 

So let me ask you a question, why do you think Palestine wants Israel eradicated?

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Please let the Arab states do this. 

 

Most of them will side with Israel. 

 

Are you ready to test that?

1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

So let me ask you a question, why do you think Palestine wants Israel eradicated?

Sorry, I should have said Palestinians. 

 

1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Are you ready to test that?

Sure, you?

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Sure, you?

 

Should have been done years ago.

 

If the Israeli's who won't accept a Palestine State were to leave the area and go somewhere else, would the World be a better place?

4 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Should have been done years ago.

 

If the Israeli's who won't accept a Palestine State were to leave the area and go somewhere else, would the World be a better place?

I think not much would change. 

 

Do you think there are more Israelis that want a two-state solution now than there were two years ago or fewer?  

8 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Should have been done years ago.

 

If the Israeli's who won't accept a Palestine State were to leave the area and go somewhere else, would the World be a better place?

 

   Where would the Israelis move to ?

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Where would the Israelis move to ?

 

Anywhere they like.

4 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Anywhere they like.

 

  Gaza And the West Bank

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think not much would change. 

 

Do you think there are more Israelis that want a two-state solution now than there were two years ago or fewer?  

 

Yes, undoubtedly, and those that can see the way the current Government are going are leaving in droves, especially the young upwardly mobile.

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Are you against allowing voluntary surrender?

 

No. What gives you that impression?

 

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I've been to jail a number of times. When they opened the door and said I could go, I left. 

 

And presumably upon release, you then had the same rights and responsibilities as any other American? That is not the case for Palestinians: Their rights are curtailed. If they leave - assuming that they can do so - they become refugees. They are not free in many senses of the word.

 

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

They Palestinians keep shooting rockets and killing Jews year after years after year. The Palestinians have in fact sworn that they want to eradicate Israel and kill every Jew.  They have also said that after they eradicate Israel and kill all the Jews, they want to destroy the US and kill all the Christians. You can choose not to believe the Palestinians, but Israel can't.

 

Hamas - not the wider Palestinian people - are responsible for that. The war is - or should be - against the Palestinian state and not the Palestinian people. It might be argued that the Palestinian people elected Hamas, so that makes them a legitimate target. Not a view that I ascribe to, but even if that is the case, I fail to see how that justifies many (most?) of the Israeli actions against the Palestinian people.

 

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Using your argument, the retaliation by the Jews is not voluntarily.

 

I don't understand how you reach that conclusion?

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

No. What gives you that impression?

I thought you implied to surrender could not really be voluntary. 

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

And presumably upon release, you then had the same rights and responsibilities as any other American? That is not the case for Palestinians: Their rights are curtailed. If they leave - assuming that they can do so - they become refugees. They are not free in many senses of the word.

No, upon release I did not have the same rights and responsibilities as any other American, 

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

 

Hamas - not the wider Palestinian people - are responsible for that. The war is - or should be - against the Palestinian state and not the Palestinian people. It might be argued that the Palestinian people elected Hamas, so that makes them a legitimate target. Not a view that I ascribe to, but even if that is the case, I fail to see how that justifies many (most?) of the Israeli actions against the Palestinian people.

Hamas is made up of Palestinians, and the majority of Palestinians continue to support Hamas. 

 

The actions are against Palestine, not the Palestine people. 

 

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

I don't understand how you reach that conclusion?

It seems like the only logical conclusion to me. 

Trolling posts attacking members, accusing members of using AI, and various other posts containing contemptuous remarks towards other members were removed.

 

Please debate the subject of the thread, without quarelling and trolling other members when you have no more valid points to make. Thank you.

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I thought you implied to surrender could not really be voluntary. 

If your home is bombed, the IDF orders you away from your temporary place, you have mo access to food or healthcare, obtaining food is fraught with danger and people are dying around you every day, i wouldn't call a departure voluntary.

9 hours ago, angryguy said:

The left on ALL social media are the only ones leaving emojis or thumbs up down whatever they have. Adults have no use for emojis

 

For someone who doesn't care about emojis you do seem to mention them quite a lot

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I thought you implied to surrender could not really be voluntary. 

 

No you are mistaken. I did not say, imply or infer that surrender could not be voluntary.

 

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

No, upon release I did not have the same rights and responsibilities as any other American, 

 

OK. Not that it has any relevance to a discussion on the Middle East.

 

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Hamas is made up of Palestinians, and the majority of Palestinians continue to support Hamas. 

 

Debatable 

https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/997

 

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The actions are against Palestine, not the Palestine people. 

 

Very debatable

 

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

It seems like the only logical conclusion to me. 

 

Then we disagree yet again. It seems like a very illogical conclusion to me.

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

No you are mistaken. I did not say, imply or infer that surrender could not be voluntary.

You did imply it, 

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

OK. Not that it has any relevance to a discussion on the Middle East.

Then why did you ask?

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

 

Debatable 

https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/997

So let's debate it

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

 

Very debatable

Do let's debate that too

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

 

Then we disagree yet again. It seems like a very illogical conclusion to me.

So be it

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

No you are mistaken. I did not say, imply or infer that surrender could not be voluntary.

 

 

OK. Not that it has any relevance to a discussion on the Middle East.

 

 

Debatable 

https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/997

 

 

Very debatable

 

 

Then we disagree yet again. It seems like a very illogical conclusion to me.

You linked to a "study"/article from PSR, which is registered as a nonprofit institution in the Palestinian Ministry of Justice. 

 

Per their "study"/article that you linked to, 72% of Palestinians supported the October 7 attack. Of course that support has dropped some, but it has not fallen below 50%. 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

If your home is bombed, the IDF orders you away from your temporary place, you have mo access to food or healthcare, obtaining food is fraught with danger and people are dying around you every day, i wouldn't call a departure voluntary.

 

  If they decide of leave of their own free will , then it would be a voluntary move/decision .

   I get the impression that some people would prefer the Palestinians to stay in Gaza , stay and suffer in Gaza for the sole reason it puts pressure on Israel .

   They don't seem to care about the well being of Palestinians 

54 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You did imply it, 

 

No I did not. Show me the post where I did.

 

54 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Then why did you ask?

 

I didn't. You introduced your time spent inside into the discussion.

 

54 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So let's debate it

Do let's debate that too

So be it

 

Fine. You start the ball rolling.

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

No I did not. Show me the post where I did.

To what end?

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

I didn't. You introduced your time spent inside into the discussion.

After which you asked about it, and when you did not like the response you discounted it.

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

 

Fine. You start the ball rolling.

I already did, using the link you provided, 

 

As I posted above: "Per their "study"/article that you linked to, 72% of Palestinians supported the October 7 attack."

 

Did you miss that?

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

You linked to a "study"/article from PSR, which is registered as a nonprofit institution in the Palestinian Ministry of Justice. 

 

Per their "study"/article that you linked to, 72% of Palestinians supported the October 7 attack. Of course that support has dropped some, but it has not fallen below 50%. 

 

 

 

 

 

That is not the same as your original statement which was, "Hamas is made up of Palestinians, and the majority of Palestinians continue to support Hamas"

 

The survey found that, "When asked which political party or movement they support, the largest percentage (32%) said they prefer Hamas, followed by Fatah (21%), 12% selected third parties, and 34% said they do not support any of them or do not know".

 

In other words, according to this survey a majority of Palestinians do not support Hamas.

6 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

That is not the same as your original statement which was, "Hamas is made up of Palestinians, and the majority of Palestinians continue to support Hamas"

 

The survey found that, "When asked which political party or movement they support, the largest percentage (32%) said they prefer Hamas, followed by Fatah (21%), 12% selected third parties, and 34% said they do not support any of them or do not know".

 

In other words, according to this survey a majority of Palestinians do not support Hamas.

Do you understand that Fatah is even more extreme than Hamas in regard to eradicating Israel and the Jews? 32% + 21% is 53%.

 

In any event, per your link, 72% of Palestinians supported the October 7 attack.

 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

To what end?

 

To prove your point, not that you can. You stated that I implied that surrender could not be voluntary. I did not. 

 

QED

 

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

After which you asked about it, and when you did not like the response you discounted it.

 

Here is our full exchange of that topic:

 

You: I've been to jail a number of times. When they opened the door and said I could go, I left. 

 

Me: And presumably upon release, you then had the same rights and responsibilities as any other American? That is not the case for Palestinians: Their rights are curtailed. If they leave - assuming that they can do so - they become refugees. They are not free in many senses of the word.

 

You: No, upon release I did not have the same rights and responsibilities as any other American

 

 Me: OK. Not that it has any relevance to a discussion on the Middle East.

 

You: Then why did you ask?

 

Me: I didn't. You introduced your time spent inside into the discussion.

 

You: After which you asked about it, and when you did not like the response you discounted it.

 

_---++++++-++

I am completely indifferent to your response and discounted it because it has no relevance to a discussion about Israel and Palestine.

 

If you think that it does have some relevance, please explain how, and what your point is?

 

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I already did, using the link you provided, 

 

As I posted above: "Per their "study"/article that you linked to, 72% of Palestinians supported the October 7 attack."

 

Did you miss that?

 

No, I did not but that, in itself, is not directly relevant to your assertion that the majority of Palestinians support Hamas. However, you clearly missed the following which is directly relevant:

 

The survey found that, "When asked which political party or movement they support, the largest percentage (32%) said they prefer Hamas, followed by Fatah (21%), 12% selected third parties, and 34% said they do not support any of them or do not know".

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you understand that Fatah is even more extreme than Hamas in regard to eradicating Israel and the Jews? 32% + 21% is 53%.

 

In any event, per your link, 72% of Palestinians supported the October 7 attack.

 

 

I have not denied that the majority of Palestinians supported the October 7 attacks. You introduced this information into the discussion to deflect attention away from the fact that your assertion that Hamas has majority support in Palestine isn't supported by the latest opinion poll.

 

Wrt Fatah: Please stop making these ridiculous claims (as much for your own sake as mine). If you really believe that, "Fatah is even more extreme than Hamas", I can only suggest that you do some more research.

11 hours ago, stevenl said:

Can you name one poster, or even better one entity, that hasn't condemned hamas for that and urged release of the hostages?

 Here's one entity that has not condemned Hamas for taking hostages and murdering Jews, the Islamic Republic of Iran.  In fact, Iran openly supports the taking of hostages and murder by Hamas.  The murals in the pic below are from Palestine Square in central Tehran.  They are official Iranian government "installations" and feature blood-spattered photos of hostages abducted on Oct.; 7, 2023.  The text in Hebrew and Farsi reads, "No hostage will be released." 

 

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/iran-news/article-825892

 

The pic below is from the  Palestine Square Countdown Clock.  The digital  display counted down the number of days of days remaining until Israel's eradication in 2040, in line with Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei’s 2015 prophecy that Israel “will not exist in 25 years.”

 

The clock was attacked in the June Israeli air raid against Tehran, but it's uncertain to what extent it was damaged.

 

It is this type of criticism of Israel that is blatantly antisemitic.