Paying Professionals...

[khall64au]

Having lived on Phuket for almost 5 yrs and witnessing a dramatic cost of living, I have noticed that professional salaries/ consultancy/ freelance fees in many sectors are not met by market inflation.

Phuket is possibly THE most expensive place to live in Thailand and yet - despite significant tourism industry price hikes and property profit rate increases - a majority of local foreign professionals who are legally working here are all stating that salaries or freelance fees have barely increased over the past 10 yrs. What is wrong with this equation?

If Phuket is to maintain an image of a leading international tourism and lifestyle property destination surely the people who work hard to promote it deserve a slice of the pie?

I hear too many cowboy rip-off stories for my liking. Phuket deserves better and so do the faithful who love the region. It is getting to the stage where those who constantly expect all for free will soon be talking to thin air!

Any ideas, aside from forming a "Smart Farang Brains- Not for Free" Union?

[thaigerd]

Thanks for starting this topic!

Just had a heavy discussion with my boss about this situation.

Our company just raised all prices for our customers at 20% because the increasing prices here in Phuket but the staff's salary remians the same. Many companies in Phuket make a very good profit but on the other side the have many Thai employess in the 6-7000 Baht range.

These people are struggeling to survive!

"Smart Farang Brains- Not for Free" Union?" is another story and agree with you.

Gerd

[Jingthing]

Charge more. If you are worth it, people will pay.

If you work for an employer who pays poorly, look for another position.

Don't these market forces apply in Phuket or are you slaves?

[Sir Burr]

Prices for land and living costs have been going up.

Land because of increased demand but limited supply.

Living costs because of increased petrol prices. Everything has to be trucked to Phuket.

Professional's salaries haven't gone up, probably because there are more and more professionals that are moving here and want to work. If you don't want to work for a certain amount of money, there is always another professional that will.

[calibanjr.]

I think Jingthing and SirBurr have pretty much nailed it.

[canadiangirl]

This being TV, I thought this would be about guys trying to bargain down bargirls.

Imagine my surprise!

[dogblower]

I think market forces do work in Phuket. There is an oversupply of people who want to live and work in Phuket and they will accept less than they are worth just to stay.

[Wolfie]

This being TV, I thought this would be about guys trying to bargain down bargirls.

Imagine my surprise!

Nah we dont do that here

[Khun ?]

why pay for something that is basicly free

[smartecosse]

oversupply

too many people willing to work for peanuts so that they can enjoy the "island" lifestye

[khall64au]

Having lived on Phuket for almost 5 yrs and witnessing a dramatic cost of living, I have noticed that professional salaries/ consultancy/ freelance fees in many sectors are not met by market inflation.

Phuket is possibly THE most expensive place to live in Thailand and yet - despite significant tourism industry price hikes and property profit rate increases - a majority of local foreign professionals who are legally working here are all stating that salaries or freelance fees have barely increased over the past 10 yrs. What is wrong with this equation?

If Phuket is to maintain an image of a leading international tourism and lifestyle property destination surely the people who work hard to promote it deserve a slice of the pie?

I hear too many cowboy rip-off stories for my liking. Phuket deserves better and so do the faithful who love the region. It is getting to the stage where those who constantly expect all for free will soon be talking to thin air!

Any ideas, aside from forming a "Smart Farang Brains- Not for Free" Union?

Please read the OP again ... I am not talking about transient rookies who pop in to enjoy the "island lifestyle" for a year or so - but professionals who are here for the long haul. These are the people who care about this island but, unfortunately, most cannot afford to stay here long-term anymore as the cost of living is becoming too high.

Do any of you network? Where do these networking functions happen? At expensive high end venues!!

Thankyou Thaigerd for replying intelligently - this is a long term problem and as long as the attitude of most posters prevails- "always a floater to move in and take your place" - the worse off Phuket is. Thai professionals are exploited big time and many expats are now not much better off.

My post reflects the general attitude of local and foreign employers - in case any of you were wondering.

It's time that the long-term professionals stood up and demanded some decent rewards, rights and equality here!!! Or does the FBA reflect the primary attitude and we are all kidding ourselves?

[Solosiam]

Rich people are tight! It really is as simple as that.

There's a very strong correlation between how rich our clients are and how slow they will pay us, or how much discount they will ask for. Seriously our best clients are all quite well off but not mega rich, the richer they get the less they want to spend. Of course they are the first on the phone when something goes wrong because they have cut costs.

People are very funny about paying for actual labour here as well, One of our customers didn't want to pay us for labour so he brought a company down from Bangkok to do the work at around 66% of our cost (they did a bad job), yet was happy spending 5 times that amount on their cables over our identical cables.

Networking tends to happen at company bashes, event openings etc...

[Dupont]

Having lived on Phuket for almost 5 yrs and witnessing a dramatic cost of living, I have noticed that professional salaries/ consultancy/ freelance fees in many sectors are not met by market inflation.

Phuket is possibly THE most expensive place to live in Thailand and yet - despite significant tourism industry price hikes and property profit rate increases - a majority of local foreign professionals who are legally working here are all stating that salaries or freelance fees have barely increased over the past 10 yrs. What is wrong with this equation?

If Phuket is to maintain an image of a leading international tourism and lifestyle property destination surely the people who work hard to promote it deserve a slice of the pie?

I hear too many cowboy rip-off stories for my liking. Phuket deserves better and so do the faithful who love the region. It is getting to the stage where those who constantly expect all for free will soon be talking to thin air!

Any ideas, aside from forming a "Smart Farang Brains- Not for Free" Union?

Please read the OP again ... I am not talking about transient rookies who pop in to enjoy the "island lifestyle" for a year or so - but professionals who are here for the long haul. These are the people who care about this island but, unfortunately, most cannot afford to stay here long-term anymore as the cost of living is becoming too high.

Do any of you network? Where do these networking functions happen? At expensive high end venues!!

Thankyou Thaigerd for replying intelligently - this is a long term problem and as long as the attitude of most posters prevails- "always a floater to move in and take your place" - the worse off Phuket is. Thai professionals are exploited big time and many expats are now not much better off.

My post reflects the general attitude of local and foreign employers - in case any of you were wondering.

It's time that the long-term professionals stood up and demanded some decent rewards, rights and equality here!!! Or does the FBA reflect the primary attitude and we are all kidding ourselves?

Five years is not a long haul mate.

Most of us work here for peanuts and prop up our lifestyles with money from outside.

Anything you can do, somebody can, and will do cheaper and (no disrespect to your ego) better.

If you are worth so much, why not work somewhere else and just enjoy the lifestyle here?

Part of living here is accepting the Thai way of life and the flip side to the cheap beer, girls, food etc. is low wages and no income for 6 months of the year. Thousands come here and think they are gonna get a western income from a bar, restrauant, travel shop, etc.

Just because you have spent western sums on the venture and injected western expertise, dosn't change a thing. We come here to get poor as slowely as possible, not to make our fortunes. Enjoy it whilst you can, and if you want to get uptight and businessy, go to Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong or back to the west.

[Lucifer]

Prices for land and living costs have been going up.

Land because of increased demand but limited supply.

Living costs because of increased petrol prices. Everything has to be trucked to Phuket.

Professional's salaries haven't gone up, probably because there are more and more professionals that are moving here and want to work. If you don't want to work for a certain amount of money, there is always another professional that will.

Ah, like supply and demand.

[JetsetBkk]

Five years is not a long haul mate.

Part of living here is accepting the Thai way of life and the flip side to the cheap beer, girls, food etc.

khall64au is not a "mate", mate! And I'm pretty sure she's not interested in cheap girls!

[Sir Burr]

Please read the OP again ... I am not talking about transient rookies who pop in to enjoy the "island lifestyle" for a year or so - but professionals who are here for the long haul. These are the people who care about this island but, unfortunately, most cannot afford to stay here long-term anymore as the cost of living is becoming too high.

Employers don't give a sh1t if you are resident, or, transient rookie, whether you care about the island, or, not. They care about the price you charge and the service you can provide. If they can get it cheaper, they will. The way your post comes across is that only people who have lived here a long time and "care" about the island can do a professional job. Clearly, that isn't true.

Thankyou Thaigerd for replying intelligently - this is a long term problem and as long as the attitude of most posters prevails- "always a floater to move in and take your place" - the worse off Phuket is. Thai professionals are exploited big time and many expats are now not much better off.

If you don't like the answer from the other posters that this is an issue of supply and demand, fine. It doesn't make it less true.

To say that Phuket is worse off because of cheap prices for professionals is ridiculous. It maybe worse for you, but, it's certainly better for the businesses that use professional's services and the customers that use the businesses.

It's time that the long-term professionals stood up and demanded some decent rewards, rights and equality here!!! Or does the FBA reflect the primary attitude and we are all kidding ourselves?

As a previous poster has already said, if you think you're worth it, demand higher pay. You'll soon find out whether other people think you're worth it, or, not.

[khall64au]

Sir Burr - we haven't all sold our souls to the oil industry. What would you do if oil ran out tomorrow? Sell som tam!!??

[Sir Burr]

Sir Burr - we haven't all sold our souls to the oil industry. What would you do if oil ran out tomorrow? Sell som tam!!??

Actually, I'm glad you have brought the oil industry up as it demonstrates my point beautifully. Oil prices have gone up, the oil patch is booming, yet, there is just not enough people to do the work. Pay is going up at approximately 25% a year. In the bad times, no payrise at all and we had to constantly dodge being laid off. Supply and demand. That is what the labour market is all about. Businees is a hard-nosed occupation.

If the oil ran out, or, there was a slump and my services were no longer required, I wouldn't whine about it, I'd retrain myself so that I could get into something where there would be a demand for my labour.

I haven't "sold my soul" to the oil industry. I work for money, I'm a whore. I work for the highest bidder. I'm working towards my goal of retiring in Phuket so that I don't have to be a whore anymore.

Don't listen to me. Though I've lived in Phuket, I've never been in your situation.

The person you need to listen to is Dogblower. He was a freelancer in Phuket for nearly twenty years, most of that experiencing a hand to mouth existence. He gave it up and now also works offshore because he was tired of the poor money to be made in Phuket.

Nobody owes us a living. You makes your choices and you live with the result.

[smartecosse]

so whats the going rate for selling your soul these days anyway.................................

[percy2]

SirBurr , intelligent argument.

We come here to get poor as slowely as possible, not to make our fortunes.

I hope thats the royal we.

Cheers

[thaigerd]

A personal update from today:

A foreign owner from a well known restaurant asked for my help in his kitchen for a coule of nights coz of staff shortage, upcoming funtions

and not having a real chef at the moment.

I was offered 1500.-Baht for a night!

What would have been your answer, would you agree?!

Gerd

[Dupont]

A personal update from today:

A foreign owner from a well known restaurant asked for my help in his kitchen for a coule of nights coz of staff shortage, upcoming funtions

and not having a real chef at the moment.

I was offered 1500.-Baht for a night!

What would have been your answer, would you agree?!

Gerd

My answer. Yes of course!

8 times the minimum wage plus a chance to ingratiate yourself with the owner. You never know where that may lead!

He will get a chef for that, no problem. It could be a missed opportunity for you as well if you don't take it!

[Sir Burr]

so whats the going rate for selling your soul these days anyway.................................

Maybe we have different definitions of the term "selling your soul".

To me, it means acting in a way that you would never do as a private person but, are willing to do for a company, or, employer.

I work for the benefit of me and my wife. That's it.

I think saying how much I earn on an internet forum would be rather crass. Be rest assured, if I didn't think it was worth it, I wouldn't do it.

[taxin]

Having lived on Phuket for almost 5 yrs and witnessing a dramatic cost of living, I have noticed that professional salaries/ consultancy/ freelance fees in many sectors are not met by market inflation.

Phuket is possibly THE most expensive place to live in Thailand and yet - despite significant tourism industry price hikes and property profit rate increases - a majority of local foreign professionals who are legally working here are all stating that salaries or freelance fees have barely increased over the past 10 yrs. What is wrong with this equation?

If Phuket is to maintain an image of a leading international tourism and lifestyle property destination surely the people who work hard to promote it deserve a slice of the pie?

I hear too many cowboy rip-off stories for my liking. Phuket deserves better and so do the faithful who love the region. It is getting to the stage where those who constantly expect all for free will soon be talking to thin air!

Any ideas, aside from forming a "Smart Farang Brains- Not for Free" Union?

Yes Phuket is the most expensive place to live but its also the most expensive place to do business. Of course people who work hard deserve a piece of the pie however, the problem with the "professionals" in Phuket is they dont realise how small that pie actually is. Its not as big as you think !

As an owner of 2 business's in Phuket I only ever see it as the other way round, so many so called Professionals want the salary but just dont want to, or cant do the work.

9 out of 10 applicants are simply layabouts who just want a company to supply them with an easy pay packet, to just show up for work. Then that 1 person out of 10 who is genuine and wants to work has a rant about companies accusing them of taking the p*ss ! Yet who is really to blame here ? The company who is cautious about the way they go about recruiting, or the layabouts who scour around companies seeing what they can squeeze out of them, while costing them costing fortunes in money & wasted time ?

Unfortunately, for as long as the layabouts outweigh the genuine job seekers its something you are just going to have to put up with. And in a holiday destination such as Phuket it wont get any better !

[Sir Burr]

Do you find any correlation between quality of work and how long that person has been living in Phuket?

[taxin]

Do you find any correlation between quality of work and how long that person has been living in Phuket?

Oh yes, huge difference !

I wont employ anyone unless they have previous working experience in Thailand, and have been living here for at least 2 years.

Most of my applicants get pi**ed off with me as I will never divulge information so early on such as salary, benefits etc. I go through the qualifying stage 1st and most never even make it passed the 1st hurdle.

[Sir Burr]

I must admit, that surprises me.

[roietjimmy]

This being TV, I thought this would be about guys trying to bargain down bargirls.

Imagine my surprise!

Nah we dont do that here

CG,

This OP is about paying for "Professional Services" which have not increased in line with Phukets inflation!

[LivinLOS]

So you move to a 3rd world country and are then surprised the rates of pay are low ??

If the money is a concern then go where the money is.. If you like the island lifestyle and want to work in the 3rd world then get used to being paid in shiny beads and seashells..

Theres plenty of well paying jobs and as westerners we have the ability to go and do them unlike our Thai counterparts who cant even get a % of what we would make (and complain about) here in thier own country.

If you want real money go where the money is.. Seems fairly simple to me.

[rgs2001uk]

how dare some johnny-come-lately upstart newbie come to my island and work for less than me?

simple, re-examine your business module.

some people dont come here to get rich, some people have made their fortune elsewhere and are quite happy to work to prevent boredom setting in.

there will always be someone who wants/needs to be here more than you do and as a result is willing to undercut you.

thats life, supply and demand.