Paying Professionals...

[Jersey_UK]

how dare some johnny-come-lately upstart newbie come to my island and work for less than me?

simple, re-examine your business module.

some people dont come here to get rich, some people have made their fortune elsewhere and are quite happy to work to prevent boredom setting in.

there will always be someone who wants/needs to be here more than you do and as a result is willing to undercut you.

thats life, supply and demand.

It always makes me smile that folk complain about Market Forces / Globalisation / competition when it affects them negatively - but otherwise it is "great".

[Sir Burr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the two whiners on this thread have just had their <deleted> handed to them

[khall64au]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the two whiners on this thread have just had their <deleted> handed to them

Sir Burr - I began this thread as a discussion on the inequity of payment in comparison to the reward of professional services contributed to this local economy.

As usual, you have turned the discussion into a shit fight.

You may think 'we' are "whiners" - those of us who have attempted to stick to the OP (Original Post) - well, you are wrong!

MY ARSE is still free whatever you meant that to be.............

[Sir Burr]

As usual, you have turned the discussion into a shit fight.

It wasn't a sh1t fight, just that nearly all the responses you got didn't agree with your point of view. No nastiness in the thread at all.

You're sounding petulant.

MY ARSE is still free

You might want to rephrase the above before you get some smart-arse comments on why you're not making as much money as you could

[khall64au]

As usual, you have turned the discussion into a shit fight.

It wasn't a sh1t fight, just that nearly all the responses you got didn't agree with your point of view. No nastiness in the thread at all.

You're sounding petulant.

MY ARSE is still free

You might want to rephrase the above before you get some smart-arse comments on why you're not making as much money as you could

The OP is still fresh, so no worries about responses - I think that eventually the answers and thoughts will appear!

As for the "smarty-pants" comments - whatever lights your life!!!

But truly, the ideas of the thread are about the people who live here. Not those who earn zega-bucks offshore and pop in to spend them...

[Sir Burr]

I do live here. For twenty two years now, so, I have seen the many changes that have happened to the island.

I go overseas for a living. When I'm not working, I'm home in Phuket. I have roots here. A house and a wife for starters with no intention of ever settling in my home country.

If this thread can only be posted on by people who live AND work in Phuket and other people are not welcome to post, say so now and I'll butt out.

[dogblower]

I lived and worked here for 15 of the last 21 years with a small stint of offshore work in the middle and I'm back offshore now (not quite zega-bucks but a bloody sight more than I can earn here). On that basis I feel qualified to have an opinion on this matter.

I've just gone back and reread the OP and maybe I'm missing the point. Salaries and freelance fees, or the price of anything for that matter, are determined by market forces unless there is some sort of external intervention. Where there is an abundant supply of a resource eg professionals wanting to live and work in Phuket, the price is determined by the amount the owners of the resource are willing to accept in return for their goods or services.

Don't mean to try to teach granny how to suck eggs, but surely this is the answer to your question? Why would anyone pay more than they need for a service if it can be found at a similar quality for a cheaper price.

I'll admit I'd rather be paid what I think my work is worth, but the truth is that I have to work away from Phuket to achieve that.

[thaigerd]

I confess that I am a whiner and fighter but for my Thai staff aswell.

Just a couple of weeks ago I was fighting for a female employee in our company to get a wage rise. For years she's working for 7k a month, no husband but 2 kids. I was whining with our management to keep her with a wage rise and I won, she's on 11k now!

I refused this 1500.-Baht offer for helping out in a restaurant and the owner corrected it to 5000.-Baht an evening, which is ok.

G.

[Sir Burr]

Good on you Thaigerd with regard to the Thai employee.

I see holding out for what you thought you were worth payed off. Market forces at work.

[LivinLOS]

Its exactly the locals caught in the pinch I would feel most sorry for.. Inflation is pushing hard here in Thailand and base cost of living on essential items has been shifting. The flood of Thai labour to the region also keeps rates down as there is a large pool of unskilled or low skilled workers to take jobs. The flip side is getting responsible intelligent hard working staff seems almost impossible too.

I personally feel a lot less sorry for the 'local foriegn professionals' who choose to come here, they are picking thier market and then are unhappy with the conditions of work in that markets, its entirely thier own choice.

Do something else, find skills in higher demand, leave to a market that does reward them at the rates they feel they should get.

[khall64au]

"It's entirely their own choice" ... is that another way of saying "if you don't like it, GO HOME!" ?????

I have some ideas of getting attention on the matter - but I don't think the 'successful ones' are going to like it too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[khall64au]

Its exactly the locals caught in the pinch I would feel most sorry for.. Inflation is pushing hard here in Thailand and base cost of living on essential items has been shifting. The flood of Thai labour to the region also keeps rates down as there is a large pool of unskilled or low skilled workers to take jobs. The flip side is getting responsible intelligent hard working staff seems almost impossible too.

I personally feel a lot less sorry for the 'local foriegn professionals' who choose to come here, they are picking thier market and then are unhappy with the conditions of work in that markets, its entirely thier own choice.

Do something else, find skills in higher demand, leave to a market that does reward them at the rates they feel they should get.

Excuse me but start your own thread on the "locals caught in the pinch" - don't even get me started on that topic, just go right ahead!

This particular thread is about "local foreign professionals" - who are supposedly here for the good of ALL on this island. And nobody is asking you to 'feel sorry' for us. Have you got that straight? We just want fair compensation for what we do for ALL on this island!!!

Do an experiment. Google 'Phuket' and see what crap is out there at the moment. Apparently, web media is a leading source of bringing 'quality' consumers to the island...

[Sir Burr]

This particular thread is about "local foreign professionals" - who are supposedly here for the good of ALL on this island.

Come off it. Get real.

Are you trying to tell us that all of the people on this island should be thankful to you "local foreign professionals"?

I think the islanders would rather have high spending oil-field workers and retirees.

[khall64au]

This particular thread is about "local foreign professionals" - who are supposedly here for the good of ALL on this island.

Come off it. Get real.

Are you trying to tell us that all of the people on this island should be thankful to you "local foreign professionals"?

I think the islanders would rather have high spending oil-field workers and retirees.

I doubt it. Do you have any data to support your surmisations?

Sir Burr, why do you feel the need to hijack so many threads when you have so very little to say?

Why would an islander aspire to have their children spend time dreaming of becoming an oil worker or a retiree when they have their whole little lives ahead of them?

Get real!!

[khall64au]

And did I mention that my work permit cost me about 60 000 baht from my own pocket?

[percy2]

This particular thread is about "local foreign professionals" - who are supposedly here for the good of ALL on this island.

Come off it. Get real.

Are you trying to tell us that all of the people on this island should be thankful to you "local foreign professionals"?

I think the islanders would rather have high spending oil-field workers and retirees.

I doubt it. Do you have any data to support your surmisations?

Sir Burr, why do you feel the need to hijack so many threads when you have so very little to say?

Why would an islander aspire to have their children spend time dreaming of becoming an oil worker or a retiree when they have their whole little lives ahead of them?

Get real!!

I think maybe he was intimating that the Islanders would prefer to have more people who spend a lot rather than people wishing to earn a lot.

If that is the case i would say its a fairly safe assumption.

Cheers

[naka]

Having lived on Phuket for almost 5 yrs and witnessing a dramatic cost of living, I have noticed that professional salaries/ consultancy/ freelance fees in many sectors are not met by market inflation.

Phuket is possibly THE most expensive place to live in Thailand and yet - despite significant tourism industry price hikes and property profit rate increases - a majority of local foreign professionals who are legally working here are all stating that salaries or freelance fees have barely increased over the past 10 yrs. What is wrong with this equation?

If Phuket is to maintain an image of a leading international tourism and lifestyle property destination surely the people who work hard to promote it deserve a slice of the pie?

I hear too many cowboy rip-off stories for my liking. Phuket deserves better and so do the faithful who love the region. It is getting to the stage where those who constantly expect all for free will soon be talking to thin air!

Any ideas, aside from forming a "Smart Farang Brains- Not for Free" Union?

Seems like you think the world owes you a living "Just cos you love Phuket"

The standard procedure for someone who thinks they are not being paid what they

are worth is to find a new, better paying job or a better paying profession.

Can you do that ? ... If not ... Why not ?

So, what do you intend to do ? ... apart from whine and lambast people just because

they are more (financially) successful than you. Oh ! and they don't love Phuket as much as you.

Anyway, Looks like you will just have to go with the Union thingy

Naka.

[khall64au]

Having lived on Phuket for almost 5 yrs and witnessing a dramatic cost of living, I have noticed that professional salaries/ consultancy/ freelance fees in many sectors are not met by market inflation.

Phuket is possibly THE most expensive place to live in Thailand and yet - despite significant tourism industry price hikes and property profit rate increases - a majority of local foreign professionals who are legally working here are all stating that salaries or freelance fees have barely increased over the past 10 yrs. What is wrong with this equation?

If Phuket is to maintain an image of a leading international tourism and lifestyle property destination surely the people who work hard to promote it deserve a slice of the pie?

I hear too many cowboy rip-off stories for my liking. Phuket deserves better and so do the faithful who love the region. It is getting to the stage where those who constantly expect all for free will soon be talking to thin air!

Any ideas, aside from forming a "Smart Farang Brains- Not for Free" Union?

Seems like you think the world owes you a living "Just cos you love Phuket"

The standard procedure for someone who thinks they are not being paid what they

are worth is to find a new, better paying job or a better paying profession.

Can you do that ? ... If not ... Why not ?

So, what do you intend to do ? ... apart from whine and lambast people just because

they are more (financially) successful than you. Oh ! and they don't love Phuket as much as you.

Anyway, Looks like you will just have to go with the Union thingy

Naka.

Do you live here Naka? If so, what do you do for a living - just for interest sake?

[Sir Burr]

I think maybe he was intimating that the Islanders would prefer to have more people who spend a lot rather than people wishing to earn a lot.

If that is the case i would say its a fairly safe assumption.

Cheers

Thankyou percy2, that is exactly what I meant.

khall, I'm not hijacking the thread. I'm responding to your (sometimes strange) statements.

[dogblower]

And what is it that you do, which is of so much benefit to Phuket that they are not willing to pay you what you think you are worth?

Don't mean to sound quite so blunt, but you do seem to have taken a rather hostile attitude to people who have tried to answer your question. If we're all too thick to get the point then perhaps you need to rephrase it.

[khall64au]

Sir Burr - we haven't all sold our souls to the oil industry. What would you do if oil ran out tomorrow? Sell som tam!!??

Actually, I'm glad you have brought the oil industry up as it demonstrates my point beautifully. Oil prices have gone up, the oil patch is booming, yet, there is just not enough people to do the work. Pay is going up at approximately 25% a year. In the bad times, no payrise at all and we had to constantly dodge being laid off. Supply and demand. That is what the labour market is all about. Businees is a hard-nosed occupation.

If the oil ran out, or, there was a slump and my services were no longer required, I wouldn't whine about it, I'd retrain myself so that I could get into something where there would be a demand for my labour.

I haven't "sold my soul" to the oil industry. I work for money, I'm a whore. I work for the highest bidder. I'm working towards my goal of retiring in Phuket so that I don't have to be a whore anymore.

Don't listen to me. Though I've lived in Phuket, I've never been in your situation.

The person you need to listen to is Dogblower. He was a freelancer in Phuket for nearly twenty years, most of that experiencing a hand to mouth existence. He gave it up and now also works offshore because he was tired of the poor money to be made in Phuket.

Nobody owes us a living. You makes your choices and you live with the result.

Have you read this thread Dogblower? Why do I get the impression that I have been thrown into a boxing ring with a bunch of "blokes'?

[dogblower]

Maybe because we're blokes we just don't understand what your problem is. Why would you be paid more than the market rate for your work, regardless of how well qualified you are? What is it you are trying to find out here? And who cares what sex you are?

[khall64au]

Maybe because we're blokes we just don't understand what your problem is. Why would you be paid more than the market rate for your work, regardless of how well qualified you are? What is it you are trying to find out here? And who cares what sex you are?

Firstly, I am not posting MY problem. I actually started this thread as a result of many conversations with a cross section of highly qualified professionals from many countries, with varying terms of residence, of both genders. The concerns expressed are my general arguments here. It seems obvious that aside from property and hotel execs (the latter diminishing as we speak) there is not a lot of room for many others to live and prosper here unless retired or work offshore. I guess that also answers my secondly. The market rate is not the market rate here.

Tired of chasing my tail now. Any other comments are most welcome.

[Sir Burr]

The market rate is not the market rate here.

Do you mean the market rate elsewhere is not the same as the market rate in Phuket? Please clarify.

[El Taco Loco]

And the reason for the pissing contest is?

[Sir Burr]

Supply and demand?

[LivinLOS]

Maybe because we're blokes we just don't understand what your problem is. Why would you be paid more than the market rate for your work, regardless of how well qualified you are? What is it you are trying to find out here? And who cares what sex you are?

Firstly, I am not posting MY problem. I actually started this thread as a result of many conversations with a cross section of highly qualified professionals from many countries, with varying terms of residence, of both genders. The concerns expressed are my general arguments here. It seems obvious that aside from property and hotel execs (the latter diminishing as we speak) there is not a lot of room for many others to live and prosper here unless retired or work offshore. I guess that also answers my secondly. The market rate is not the market rate here.

Tired of chasing my tail now. Any other comments are most welcome.

Theres plenty of work here.. Why do you think Thais are flooding to the region to earn good money compared to so many other regions... My mates GF quit her 15k per month easy job to do better herself.. Mine was working for 12k plus tips for unskilled type work and has quit that for a different job with more growth chances..

But thats not what your really complaining about is it ?? Your saying your not being paid your percieved value.. You expect a high paying job at many multiples of local labour rates. Well its time to either find a person who will pay you those rates or change profession or location, why does the world owe you a (higher paid) living ?? market forces define your real value and thats whats available. Why not try to sell your freelance work to a 1st world country / publication, surely then you have the best of both worlds ?? Or is it no ones interested ?

As to the ohh so expensive 60k paid out for a WP.. Compare that to the self paid courses most of these oil pro's your happy to mud sling against.. Most of them have multiple multi thousand USD training courses that need updating often. Its not like freelance writing carries a high burden of startup costs ??

[taxin]

This particular thread is about "local foreign professionals" - who are supposedly here for the good of ALL on this island.

Come off it. Get real.

Are you trying to tell us that all of the people on this island should be thankful to you "local foreign professionals"?

I think the islanders would rather have high spending oil-field workers and retirees.

As much as I hate to take sides I have to say Sir Burr is right. Sorry Khal.

Phuket does not want "Local Professionals" taking a slice of the income. Its the foreign currency from outside what they want.

I think there is a lack of gratitude from Thaigerd. Particularly when he is being paid almost the equivalent of what a Thai chef would make in month, simply for doing one nights work, and then merely comments that its just "ok".

[thaigerd]

This particular thread is about "local foreign professionals" - who are supposedly here for the good of ALL on this island.

Come off it. Get real.

Are you trying to tell us that all of the people on this island should be thankful to you "local foreign professionals"?

I think the islanders would rather have high spending oil-field workers and retirees.

As much as I hate to take sides I have to say Sir Burr is right. Sorry Khal.

Phuket does not want "Local Professionals" taking a slice of the income. Its the foreign currency from outside what they want.

I think there is a lack of gratitude from Thaigerd. Particularly when he is being paid almost the equivalent of what a Thai chef would make in month, simply for doing one nights work, and then merely comments that its just "ok".

Dear taxin,

a good Thai Chef(not a cook) earns 40k and up per month in a good restaurant or hotel!

Why we all don't meet next week for a beer and talk about it???

Gerd

[Jet Gorgon]

Bt60,000 for a work permit? How many years? It sounds like extortion.

Not many farang make the equivalent in professional or whatever wages in Thailand as they did at home, unless they're NGOs or expats brought over by the company.

Better start on that sordid novel and send it to a NY publisher.