7 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

And what else does govt spend on? Deporting hard-working foreign immigrants who are raising families, working and contributing to the economy. What an excellent use of resources. Get rid of hard-working people and feed Americans SNAP cheese. <deleted> papers! It's people who really count in America!

4/7's of federal spending is devoted to social programs. 1/7's of the federal budget is devolved to discretionary spending . The DOD is 1/7's of the federal budget. The last 1/7 is service on the debt.

Any questions?

6 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

And it's worthwhile to point out that in Clinton's last year in office the budget actually managed to produce a slight surplus. George Bush soon took care of that with his massive tax cuts. You're going to blame the democrats for that too?

Now the rest of the story.

1) There was the dot.com boom that went bust at the end of Clintons term. Which raised a lot of revenue.

2) Newt had huge fights with Clinton that resulted in some budget discipline.

3) 9/11 happened.

14 minutes ago, TedG said:

Says the person who used "Dear Leader".

Me thinks the poster is reincarnated.

9 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Who did what isn't difficult to figure out. An additional 2 trillion on the debt isn't hard to figure who and why. Cut spending, especially on the military (America hasn't a problem with defending the homeland) saves money. Teaching the rich is a good aim but managing spending is good too

This stupid graphic. For instance. Under Obama the national debt came close to doubling.

https://checkyourfact.com/2019/02/26/fact-check-obama-debt-presidents-combined-double/

Cut the military? The largest driver of the deficit is social programs, which account for 57% of the federal budget, vs 14% for the military. 

2 minutes ago, TedG said:

This stupid graphic. For instance. Under Obama the national debt came close to doubling.

https://checkyourfact.com/2019/02/26/fact-check-obama-debt-presidents-combined-double/

Cut the military? The largest driver of the deficit is social programs, which account for 57% of the federal budget, vs 14% for the military. 

The same people that howl about defense spending, howl about needing to fund Ukraine and Hamas, and go crazy when Trump jaw-bones other NATO members to pay their share,

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

The same people that howl about defense spending, howl about needing to fund Ukraine and Hamas, and go crazy when Trump jaw-bones other NATO members to pay their share,

This is true.

2 hours ago, TedG said:

At some point you have to pay back the loan with a source of income. Right?

2 hours ago, TedG said:

How much does a billionaire make in taxable income?

Billionaires often have no taxable income.

When they take loans, they don’t have to pay them back within their lifetime.

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Billionaires often have no taxable income.

It is amazing how full of cr*p you are. Please support your ridiculous claim.

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

When they take loans, they don’t have to pay them back within their lifetime.

No one has to pay a loan off within their lifetime. Do you know nothing of finance?

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I asked why Biden did not raise taxes, I did not state it as a fac at, but in any event. I was mistaken.

"Your statement just shows how little you know about US government and law. Democrats held the House and Senate for Biden's first two years. Did you forget that or did you never know it?

Democrats had the White House, the Senate, and the House of Representatives and did not raise taxes."

Do you recognize that quote? Maybe somebody hacked your account?

And even if you had asked that question, it would have been what's called a loaded question. A question which includes a questionable assumption. The oft-cited example being When did you stop beating your wife? or Have you stopped beating your wife?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

3 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

"Your statement just shows how little you know about US government and law. Democrats held the House and Senate for Biden's first two years. Did you forget that or did you never know it?

Democrats had the White House, the Senate, and the House of Representatives and did not raise taxes."

Do you recognize that quote? Maybe somebody hacked your account?

And even if you had asked that question, it would have been what's called a loaded question. A question which includes a questionable assumption. The oft-cited example being When did you stop beating your wife? or Have you stopped beating your wife?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

Why did you clip my post? All you can do is cut and paste, typical leftist.

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Why did you clip my post? All you can do is cut and paste, typical leftist.

We are allowed to clip post as long as we don't change the meaning of what someone writes. If you can show how my cutting changed your assertion about taxes during Biden's first 2 years, take it to the mods. But the fact is, you've got nothing.

1 minute ago, Alan Zweibel said:

We are allowed to clip post as long as we don't change the meaning of what someone writes. If you can show how my cutting changed your assertion about taxes during Biden's first 2 years, take it to the mods. But the fact is, you've got nothing.

I already admitted in the post you clipped that I was wrong about Biden cutting taxes, which means you did not read my response, or you are lying, and pretending I did not already admit I was wrong.

You had to clip my post because your position weak, and all you can to is cut and paste.

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I already admitted in the post you clipped that I was wrong about Biden cutting taxes, which means you did not read my response, or you are lying, and pretending I did not already admit I was wrong.

You had to clip my post because your position weak, and all you can to is cut and paste.

You claimed you asked it as a question and tried to use that falsehood as a way to mitigate what you wrote. As my quote of what you wrote showed, you didn't ask it as a question. You made an assertion.

As for "all you can do is cut and paste"... how else do you suggest that I produce evidence to counter your assertion?

1 minute ago, Alan Zweibel said:

You claimed you asked it as a question and tried to use that falsehood as a way to mitigate what you wrote. As my quote of what you wrote showed, you didn't ask it as a question. You made an assertion.

As for "all you can do is cut and paste"... how else do you suggest that I produce evidence to counter your assertion?

And yet again, you deflect from the actual discussions and nitpick a point I admitted I was wrong.

You had to clip my post because your position is weak, and all you can to is cut and paste nitpicky nonsense.

44 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

It is amazing how full of cr*p you are. Please support your ridiculous claim.

No one has to pay a loan off within their lifetime. Do you know nothing of finance?

Your level of comprehension was less than my post. Let me explain it to you, I hope you can understand it.

You accused me of being full of cr?p because I said billionaires often pay no tax.

Let me explain again how they do that.

They borrow against their assets, usually shares. They then spend and live off loans. No tax is paid.

Do you understand it now? Or would you like me to explain it again?

To take your second point.You said I don’t understand finance because you said no one has to pay off a loan within their lifetime. What a load of total BS

Let me give you the example of somebody who takes out a loan to buy a house on a fixed term of say 30 years he has to pay off that loan at the end of that term. Clearly this is an exception to the rule where you stated that no one has to pay off a loan within their lifetime.

It would appear to me that you are the one that doesn’t understand finance.

Just now, Yellowtail said:

And yet again, you deflect from the actual discussions and nitpick a point I admitted I was wrong.

All you had to do was admit you were wrong but instead you accompanied it with a falsehood.

Just now, Alan Zweibel said:

All you had to do was admit you were wrong but instead you accompanied it with a falsehood.

And yet again, you deflect from the actual discussions and nitpick a point I admitted I was wrong, four times now.

You had to clip my post because your position is weak, and all you can to is cut and paste nitpicky nonsense.

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

How does taxing people less make them poorer?

Ask yourself what society would be like if no one paid any taxes.

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Your level of comprehension was less than my post. Let me explain it to you, I hope you can understand it.

You accused me of being full of cr?p because I said billionaires often pay no tax.

Fist lie

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Let me explain again how they do that.

They borrow against their assets, usually shares. They then spend and live off loans. No tax is paid.

Do you understand it now? Or would you like me to explain it again?

I want you to explain how paying interest on a loan is cheaper than paying long term capital gains.

Most billionaires, own businesses and draw salaries or have other forms of income

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

To take your second point.You said I don’t understand finance because you said no one has to pay off alone within their lifetime. What a load of total BS

Let me give you the example of somebody who takes out alone to buy a house on a fixed term of say 30 years he has to pay off that loan at the end of that term. Clearly this is an exception to the rule where you stated that no one has to pay off alone within their lifetime.

Clearly this is an exception to the rule. You stated that no one has to pay off alone within their lifetime.

The loan you describe has a thirty-year term and is unrelated to the borrower's lifetime. There is no requirement that the borrower pay it off before they.

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

It would appear to me that you are the one that doesn’t understand finance.

It would appear to me that it you that lacks understanding.

3 hours ago, TedG said:

How is this making America poor?

Numbers aren't good enough for you. Let's try it this way...

The debt is exploding - but the cake doesen't get bigger. The pockets of 90% have less end of the month to spend.

The richest of the rich get more. They don't spend more. Or create jobs.

Was this simple enough for you to understand?

1 minute ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Ask yourself what society would be like if no one paid any taxes.

Why? I'm not advocating no one pay taxes, I think everyone should pay their fair share. You on the other hand, seem to think the poor should subsidize the rich.

1 minute ago, Schoggibueb said:

Numbers aren't good enough for you. Let's try it this way...

The debt is exploding - but the cake doesen't get bigger. The pockets of 90% have less end of the month to spend.

The richest of the rich get more. They don't spend more. Or create jobs.

Was this simple enough for you to understand?

It's simple enough, it's just not true.

Do you think it is the poor that create jobs?

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Why? I'm not advocating no one pay taxes, I think everyone should pay their fair share. You on the other hand, seem to think the poor should subsidize the rich.

As any economist will tell you, a concept called demand elasticity alone means that corporations generally can't pass along all the cost of tax increases to consumers. If they raise the price to include all the tax increase, it generally means a decline in demand. Of course, if a government imposes tariffs on their foreign competitors, it does give them more leeway to charge more. But it's obviously ridiculous to say that if a government seeks to raise lets say 20 billiion in taxes, imposing them directly on consumers instead of on producers,is going to save consumers money.

Just now, Alan Zweibel said:

As any economist will tell you, a concept called demand elasticity alone means that corporations generally can't pass along all the cost of tax increases to consumers. If they raise the price to include all the tax increase, it generally means a decline in demand. Of course, if a government imposes tariffs on their foreign competitors, it does give them more leeway to charge more. But it's obviously ridiculous to say that if a government seeks to raise lets say 20 billiion in taxes, imposing them directly on consumers instead of on producers,is going to save consumers money.

More defection. Why not address what I said?

Again, depending on the thread, you argue companies will pass the tax (tariff) on to the customer, but then you turn around and argue companies can't pass their income taxes on to the consumers. both can't be true.

You want to impose the tax on the poor consumer, but you hide what you are doing by taxing corporations. I want to be honest about it and tax people's income.

31 minutes ago, Schoggibueb said:

Numbers aren't good enough for you. Let's try it this way...

The debt is exploding - but the cake doesen't get bigger. The pockets of 90% have less end of the month to spend.

The richest of the rich get more. They don't spend more. Or create jobs.

Was this simple enough for you to understand?

The debt is exploding due to the social programs growing faster than the GDP.

24 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

More defection. Why not address what I said?

Again, depending on the thread, you argue companies will pass the tax (tariff) on to the customer, but then you turn around and argue companies can't pass their income taxes on to the consumers. both can't be true.

You want to impose the tax on the poor consumer, but you hide what you are doing by taxing corporations. I want to be honest about it and tax people's income.

Actually, as economists noted, companies have been holding back on passing along all the costs imposed by tariffs. ANd where did I write that "companies can't pass their income taxes on to the consumers." This is a typical distortion from you.

As for your crocodile tears about consumers, what effects will tariffs have on the prices they pay? After all, about 50% of imported goods by value are intermediate inputs that are used by domestic manufacturers. Of course the effect isn't as severe on domestic manufacturers as it is on businesses that ship whole goods to the United States. But of course, that differential, allows domestic companies to charge consumers more than they otherwise would.

50 minutes ago, TedG said:

The debt is exploding due to the social programs growing faster than the GDP.

So since over a year as Trump has taken over... social programs are growing? That's nuts.

5 hours ago, TedG said:

4/7's of federal spending is devoted to social programs. 1/7's of the federal budget is devolved to discretionary spending . The DOD is 1/7's of the federal budget. The last 1/7 is service on the debt.

Any questions?

The numbers don't lie. The DOW sucks up most of the budget and has created most of the debt.

13 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

The numbers don't lie. The DOW sucks up most of the budget and has created most of the debt.

I don't know why people on the left can't deal with reality.

https://www.pgpf.org/article/healthcare-costs-are-a-major-driver-of-the-national-debt-and-heres-the-biggest-reason-why/

As the long-term projections from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) show, the national debt is on an unsustainable path. Under current law, the nation’s debt trajectory will rise from 100 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2025 to 156 percent in 2055. One of the largest drivers of that rising debt is federal spending on major healthcare programs, such as Medicare and Medicaid. Such spending is projected to rise by 73 percent over the next decade and will exceed all other categories of federal spending in 2028. By 2055, spending on major healthcare programs will account for 30 percent of total federal outlays, exceeding the total amount spent on discretionary programs, such as defense and education, by 59 percent.

Sure the tax dodgers amongst the super rich are looting somewhat. But look closer at all those tax havens under dutch, uk, American or some EU nation's supervision. These nations complain but up to them to clean up things in their territories.