40 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No, you just have nothing of substance to say, so you are regurgitating an inane line you think is witty.

It's the height of inanity to back-and-forth name calling.

47 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, going to war to stop Hitler from gassing Jews appalled you?

No country admitted they knew about concentration camps though they knew about abuse and persecution of Jews. Countries went to war to stop Hitler annexing territory.

I believe there would have been fewer deaths, including Jews, if attrition took place rather than war. Hitler had limited means and funds.

Six million were killed. Do you think more would have been killed by attrition? I don't think there were any more!

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

So, going to war to stop Hitler from gassing Jews appalled you?

I don't think the member is 90+ years old, Yellowtail. 🙂

18 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Hitler had limited means and funds.

Pol Pot managed well on a tight budget. Pickaxes, wooden bats, farming hoes. Not likely to break the bank. 🙂

9 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

No country admitted they knew about concentration camps though they knew about abuse and persecution of Jews. Countries went to war to stop Hitler annexing territory.

I believe there would have been fewer deaths, including Jews, if attrition took place rather than war. Hitler had limited means and funds.

Six million were killed. Do you think more would have been killed by attrition? I don't think there were any more!

Is that a yes or a no?

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Is that a yes or a no?

Sorry can't seem to find your question. But, no, I believe WWII was unnecessary, as are all wars.

Yanks used to talk about 'winning hearts and minds" (not so much now). Resistance to Hitler in Germany was minute. But as his excesses continued, that would have changed to effective nonviolent (and probably violent) resistance.

Would those Germans have been mowed down in the streets as in Iran? Of course, But that only further galvanises public opposition.

The one point I have trouble with. Would Germans give up Jew-hatred, seeing Jews as the enemy. We can't know.

2 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Sorry can't seem to find your question. But, no, I believe WWII was unnecessary, as are all wars.

Yanks used to talk about 'winning hearts and minds" (not so much now). Resistance to Hitler in Germany was minute. But as his excesses continued, that would have changed to effective nonviolent (and probably violent) resistance.

Would those Germans have been mowed down in the streets as in Iran? Of course, But that only further galvanises public opposition.

The one point I have trouble with. Would Germans give up Jew-hatred, seeing Jews as the enemy. We can't know.

Yeah, that wasn't the question.

A well-armed and supported state is the best defense Jews have against an attempt at the Holocaust, chapter 2. Jews have to defend themselves, they can't rely on non-Jews to do it for them. Never again is now!

You are really making a fool out of yourself now. Are you intentionally misreading me?

At least you got that "PRE OCTOBER" detail by now

On 4/8/2026 at 9:09 PM, Yellowtail said:

What you said was: "I was asked if Hamas is doing everything possible to eradicate Israel and I answered back that pre-October 7 an average of 20 Israelis were killed by Hamas attacks per year (while almost 7000 Palestinians are killed in the same time) so I guessed, they do not do everything possible."

As soon as you show Israel was killing 7,000 Palestinians a year pre-October 7 I'll apologize for calling you a liar.

When are you going to apologize for falsely claiming that I believe all abominations are okay in war?

Here´s what I wrote

On 4/7/2026 at 8:24 PM, Somjot said:

As you can see from the graphics above in the years 2008 to 2023 there were in total almost 7000 Gazans killed by Israel while only 343 Israelis were killed by attacks from Gaza, that´s about 20 a year.

Do I need to translate that for you?

Ok, in a time period (between 2008 and 2023) of 16 years, almost 7000 Gazans were killed by Israel.

In the same time period of 16 years 343 Israelis were killed by Gaza, which is exactly 21,43 or ABOUT 20 per year.

I don´t know how you read 7000 killed Gazans per year into this, but I definitely know, that I never wrote anything like that.

Now, to do the math extra for you: 7000 Gazans : 16 years = 437,5 per year, and not 7000.

Let´s go a bit further: 437,5 killed Gazans : 21,43 killed Israelis = 20,41.

Israel has killed 20 Gazans for every killed Israeli for many years.

And yet it is always Israel claiming to be at the brink of extinction and only defending itself.

Now back to the abominations:

On 4/7/2026 at 8:24 PM, Somjot said:

But for the sake of the argument let's accept for a moment that there is no other way to deal with Hamas than destroying the whole strip, all the residential buildings, universities, hospitals, schools, you name it and the civilian loss is just unfortunate and definitely unwanted collateral damage.

1. Does that justify Hind Rajab, the five year old girl whose family was gunned down by the IDF while sitting next to her in that car and after she called her mother, begging for her life and the IDF finally granted the permission to two paramedics to go and get her and then went back and executed the five year old girl and slaughtered the two paramedics?

2. Does that justify the drones following world's kitchen and massacring the aid helpers?

3. Does it justify the murder of the 15 aid helpers, who were travelling on a permitted route in emergency cars with the lights fully turned on and then stopped by the IDF, executed and buried with their cars?

4. The IDF first denied it, later stated the cars were all dark but their lies were exposed by a video on a cell phone of one of the victims which he had taped before brutally being murdered and which clearly showed that all their lights were on.

5. Does it justify the shooting if starving people waiting in line to get some food?

6. Does it justify target practice on children, where they are shot in the heads on one day, in the chest on another and in the groin on the Third day??

7. Does it justify the huge number of journalists, nurses and medics slaughtered or that the IDF created the place with the most child amputees in the world?

8. Does it justify the regular raping and killing of detainees, whose bodies are sometimes given back to their families with organs missing while the rapists are presented in the media as true national heroes?

9. And their latest execution law, made for Palestinians only.

So if I misunderstood your "war is won in different ways" as all of that being ok, let´s forget about that and just tell me your opinion about all those abominations actions and if they really can be called self defense?

11 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

A well-armed and supported state is the best defense Jews have against an attempt at the Holocaust, chapter 2. Jews have to defend themselves, they can't rely on non-Jews to do it for them. Never again is now!

If I would get 10 bucks for every time I heard or read this sentence.

"A well-armed and supported state is the best defense against the Holocaust chapter 2."

And then you (with “you” I mean Israel or Israelis) had nothing better to do then to go into a area which had been inhabited by Muslims for more than a millennia, create a Jewish only apartheid country, expel 750,000 and murder 10.000 of the indigenous people who had been living there for countless generations and who never had wronged you, justifying it with some religious connection from 3000 years ago.

And since then, you have been harassing, torturing and killing those people by the thousands while stealing their land plus attacking almost every neighboring country and killing their civilians same as it is happening right now in Lebanon, while presenting yourself as the victims at the brink of extinction.

I know you see all that differently, as necessary measures, but were those incidents I asked also necessary? How do you justify that?

Can all that really be justified with self-defense?

 

1. Does that justify Hind Rajab, the five year old girl whose family was gunned down by the IDF while sitting next to her in that car and after she called her mother, begging for her life and the IDF finally granted the permission to two paramedics to go and get her and then went back and executed the five year old girl and slaughtered the two paramedics?

2. Does that justify the drones following world's kitchen and massacring the aid helpers?

3. Does it justify the murder of the 15 aid helpers, who were travelling on a permitted route in emergency cars with the lights fully turned on and then stopped by the IDF, executed and buried with their cars?

   The IDF first denied it, later stated the cars were all dark but their lies were exposed by a video on a cell phone of one of the victims which he had taped before brutally being murdered and which clearly showed that all their lights were on.

4. Does it justify the shooting of starving people waiting in line to get some food?

5. Does it justify target practice on children, where they are shot in the heads on one day, in the chest on another and in the groin on the Third day??

6. Does it justify the huge number of journalists, nurses and medics slaughtered or that the IDF created the place with the most child amputees in the world?

7. Does it justify the regular raping and killing of detainees, whose bodies are sometimes given back to their families with organs missing while the rapists are presented in the media as true national heroes?

8. And their latest execution law, made for Palestinians only.

Israel is out of control. The State no longer knows right from wrong. There is no moral compass. Soldiers and citizens swallow it whole.

12 hours ago, Somjot said:

You are really making a fool out of yourself now. Are you intentionally misreading me?

At least you got that "PRE OCTOBER" detail by now

Here´s what I wrote

Do I need to translate that for you?

Ok, in a time period (between 2008 and 2023) of 16 years, almost 7000 Gazans were killed by Israel.

In the same time period of 16 years 343 Israelis were killed by Gaza, which is exactly 21,43 or ABOUT 20 per year.

I don´t know how you read 7000 killed Gazans per year into this, but I definitely know, that I never wrote anything like that.

Now, to do the math extra for you: 7000 Gazans : 16 years = 437,5 per year, and not 7000.

Let´s go a bit further: 437,5 killed Gazans : 21,43 killed Israelis = 20,41.

Israel has killed 20 Gazans for every killed Israeli for many years.

And yet it is always Israel claiming to be at the brink of extinction and only defending itself.

Now back to the abominations:

So if I misunderstood your "war is won in different ways" as all of that being ok, let´s forget about that and just tell me your opinion about all those abominations actions and if they really can be called self defense?

Yes, when I answered war is won in any number way, you incorrectly assumed I meant that I fount to acceptable to do anything to anyone anywhere at any time to win a war. That is not at all my position.

Which specific actions do you want my opinion on? Please provide them on at a time.

On 4/9/2026 at 7:55 AM, Evil Penevil said:

A well-armed and supported state is the best defense Jews have against an attempt at the Holocaust, chapter 2. Jews have to defend themselves, they can't rely on non-Jews to do it for them. Never again is now!

Perhaps that is true. The problem is that the current Israeli government seems to believe that attack is the best form of defence.

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, when I answered war is won in any number way, you incorrectly assumed I meant that I fount to acceptable to do anything to anyone anywhere at any time to win a war. That is not at all my position.

Which specific actions do you want my opinion on? Please provide them on at a time.

Children? Hospitals? Schools? Journalists?

24 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Children? Hospitals? Schools? Journalists?

Did you have a question?

11 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Which specific actions do you want my opinion on? Please provide them on at a time.

6 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Children? Hospitals? Schools? Journalists?

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Did you have a question?

@unblocktheplanet

Don´t bother asking those pro - Israel BMs any question where they´d have to reveal their view on the war crimes committed by the IDF.

You`ll never get a reasonable answer.

Actually this thread is a perfect example of their debate strategies:

First @richard_smith237 basically said, that in a high populated area like Gaza with Hamas hiding practically everywhere a huge number of civilian losses is unavoidable.

I answered, that I doubt this can justify the mass destruction of most buildings in Gaza and even if, how does it justify the following incidents perpetrated by the IDF:

Answer: no answer.

Instead @Yellowtail interfered with the trick question if I think Hamas is doing everything it can to erase Israel.

I answered that Pre-October 7 between 2008 to 2023 around 7000 Gazans were killed while in the same time 343 Israelis were killed, which is around 20 Israelis per year so I do not think they do everything they can as around 400 Israelis die in car accidents per year.

Immediately the "forever victim" @Jingthing jumped in and as usual twisted my words "So not enough dead Jews for your liking, huh?" and even played the Nazi card.

@Yellowtail started the typical mind gymnastics by first trying to confuse me with intentional misinterpretations of my answer like comparing it to a sports event and implying I had used the low hits of a team as a proof that they did not want more hits while it is more likely that they just could not get more hits which is not true as I never tried to prove anything. I had just expressed my opinion.

He went on totally misinterpreting my numbers by saying that Hamas had killed 2300 Israelis and not only as few as I had written calling me a liar and an idiot.

I quoted my own post which proved that I had been referring to a PRE OCTOBER 7 time period and demanded an apology for calling me an idiot.

He promised an apology "As soon as you show Israel was killing 7,000 Palestinians a year pre-October 7 I'll apologize for calling you a liar."

I - again - quoted myself proving that I had stated that 7000 Palestinians were killed in the time period 2008 to 2023 and not per year and repeated my questions for the third time.

Answer: "Which specific actions do you want my opinion on? Please provide them on at a time?"

and of course as expected no apology.

Meanwhile @Evil Penevil wrote one of the usual and permanently repeated slogans about a well-armed and supported state being the best defense Jews have against an attempt at the Holocaust, chapter 2.

as usual trying to present the IDF´s atrocities as self-defense.

I confronted him with the same questions asking if all that can be called self-defense.

Answer: no answer.

Finally you tried to remind @Yellowtail of my questions "Children? Hospitals? Schools? Journalists?"

Answer: "Did you have a question"?

So once again don't waste your time trying to debate with them about why they support Israel and what makes them think Israel is acting in the right way as you will never get a straight an honest answer.

They will always dodge any uncomfortable questions, deny any true incidents proving IDF war crimes and keep playing mind games with you by confusing you with answers or counter questions so ridiculous that before you can get your head around it, they come up with the next one or by trying to turn the tables on you by calling you anti-Semite out of ridiculous reasons.

Simply because they know very well that they are trying to defend the indefensible as they are siding with war criminals and are applying a disgusting double standard which can only be described as something very close to blatant ethno - religio - racism.

If any Muslim country would have committed only ONE of the many abominations Israel has done, for example Hind Rajab – if it was a 5 year old Jewish girl sitting in a car surrounded by her slaughtered cousins and calling her mother with a cell phone desperately begging for her life who then asked Hamas to please allow her daughter to be saved by an ambulance with 2 paramedics and Hamas would grant the permission only to go back to the place and execute the little girl and the paramedics – I can´t imagine the outcry. All western leaders on the streets, demonstrating, a new public remembrance holiday, memorials for the Jewish girl popping out in every city, you name it.

But hey, she was only a Muslim, never mind.

So, don´t waste your time trying to convince the inconvincible who are desperately defending the indefensible and justifying heinous abominations by presenting them as legitimate self-defense.

It is put to better use if you inform the uninformed: so many people still don´t know what is really going on in the countries around Israel as they have only access to the biased western media which are trying to make them believe that those who are attacked and murdered are the real terrorists and those committing mass murder and invading other countries stealing their land are only acting in self-defense.

I support the Hind Rajab Foundation, an organization devoted to breaking the cycle of Israeli impunity and achieving justice for all the victims of the Gaza genocide.

All they do is hunt down Israeli war criminals and report them to the authorities for further investigation.

Not only are they doing a great job, but the whole thing is also a perfect litmus test for the true character of people:

Because anyone supporting them or at least appreciating their good work – no matter if pro-Israeli or anti – Israeli, is a fair and just person who believes in international law and human rights for everyone and should have no problem with alleged war criminals to be investigated to find out if they are guilty and then should rightfully be punished or if they are not guilty and should not be bothered with such serious accusations.

And every person who is opposing the activities of the HRF and does not want alleged war criminals to be investigated to find out if the accusations are true or not, well, we all know what kind of people we are talking about, those who protect child slayers, worst of humanity.

7 hours ago, Somjot said:

@unblocktheplanet

Don´t bother asking those pro - Israel BMs any question where they´d have to reveal their view on the war crimes committed by the IDF.

You`ll never get a reasonable answer.

Actually this thread is a perfect example of their debate strategies:

First @richard_smith237 basically said, that in a high populated area like Gaza with Hamas hiding practically everywhere a huge number of civilian losses is unavoidable.

I answered, that I doubt this can justify the mass destruction of most buildings in Gaza and even if, how does it justify the following incidents perpetrated by the IDF:

Answer: no answer.

Instead @Yellowtail interfered with the trick question if I think Hamas is doing everything it can to erase Israel.

I answered that Pre-October 7 between 2008 to 2023 around 7000 Gazans were killed while in the same time 343 Israelis were killed, which is around 20 Israelis per year so I do not think they do everything they can as around 400 Israelis die in car accidents per year.

Immediately the "forever victim" @Jingthing jumped in and as usual twisted my words "So not enough dead Jews for your liking, huh?" and even played the Nazi card.

@Yellowtail started the typical mind gymnastics by first trying to confuse me with intentional misinterpretations of my answer like comparing it to a sports event and implying I had used the low hits of a team as a proof that they did not want more hits while it is more likely that they just could not get more hits which is not true as I never tried to prove anything. I had just expressed my opinion.

He went on totally misinterpreting my numbers by saying that Hamas had killed 2300 Israelis and not only as few as I had written calling me a liar and an idiot.

I quoted my own post which proved that I had been referring to a PRE OCTOBER 7 time period and demanded an apology for calling me an idiot.

He promised an apology "As soon as you show Israel was killing 7,000 Palestinians a year pre-October 7 I'll apologize for calling you a liar."

I - again - quoted myself proving that I had stated that 7000 Palestinians were killed in the time period 2008 to 2023 and not per year and repeated my questions for the third time.

Answer: "Which specific actions do you want my opinion on? Please provide them on at a time?"

and of course as expected no apology.

Meanwhile @Evil Penevil wrote one of the usual and permanently repeated slogans about a well-armed and supported state being the best defense Jews have against an attempt at the Holocaust, chapter 2.

as usual trying to present the IDF´s atrocities as self-defense.

I confronted him with the same questions asking if all that can be called self-defense.

Answer: no answer.

Finally you tried to remind @Yellowtail of my questions "Children? Hospitals? Schools? Journalists?"

Answer: "Did you have a question"?

So once again don't waste your time trying to debate with them about why they support Israel and what makes them think Israel is acting in the right way as you will never get a straight an honest answer.

They will always dodge any uncomfortable questions, deny any true incidents proving IDF war crimes and keep playing mind games with you by confusing you with answers or counter questions so ridiculous that before you can get your head around it, they come up with the next one or by trying to turn the tables on you by calling you anti-Semite out of ridiculous reasons.

Simply because they know very well that they are trying to defend the indefensible as they are siding with war criminals and are applying a disgusting double standard which can only be described as something very close to blatant ethno - religio - racism.

If any Muslim country would have committed only ONE of the many abominations Israel has done, for example Hind Rajab – if it was a 5 year old Jewish girl sitting in a car surrounded by her slaughtered cousins and calling her mother with a cell phone desperately begging for her life who then asked Hamas to please allow her daughter to be saved by an ambulance with 2 paramedics and Hamas would grant the permission only to go back to the place and execute the little girl and the paramedics – I can´t imagine the outcry. All western leaders on the streets, demonstrating, a new public remembrance holiday, memorials for the Jewish girl popping out in every city, you name it.

But hey, she was only a Muslim, never mind.

So, don´t waste your time trying to convince the inconvincible who are desperately defending the indefensible and justifying heinous abominations by presenting them as legitimate self-defense.

It is put to better use if you inform the uninformed: so many people still don´t know what is really going on in the countries around Israel as they have only access to the biased western media which are trying to make them believe that those who are attacked and murdered are the real terrorists and those committing mass murder and invading other countries stealing their land are only acting in self-defense.

I support the Hind Rajab Foundation, an organization devoted to breaking the cycle of Israeli impunity and achieving justice for all the victims of the Gaza genocide.

All they do is hunt down Israeli war criminals and report them to the authorities for further investigation.

Not only are they doing a great job, but the whole thing is also a perfect litmus test for the true character of people:

Because anyone supporting them or at least appreciating their good work – no matter if pro-Israeli or anti – Israeli, is a fair and just person who believes in international law and human rights for everyone and should have no problem with alleged war criminals to be investigated to find out if they are guilty and then should rightfully be punished or if they are not guilty and should not be bothered with such serious accusations.

And every person who is opposing the activities of the HRF and does not want alleged war criminals to be investigated to find out if the accusations are true or not, well, we all know what kind of people we are talking about, those who protect child slayers, worst of humanity.

Again, and I understand how complex this must sound to you, but which specific actions do you want my opinion on? Please provide them on at a time, and I will happily address them.

7 hours ago, Somjot said:

Meanwhile @Evil Penevil wrote one of the usual and permanently repeated slogans about a well-armed and supported state being the best defense Jews have against an attempt at the Holocaust, chapter 2.

as usual trying to present the IDF´s atrocities as self-defense.

I confronted him with the same questions asking if all that can be called self-defense.

Answer: no answer.

I try to spend no more than one or two hours a day on "recreational" use of the Internet and I have other sites than AN to visit. You may have to wait awhile for my answers. 😄

I am not "trying to present the IDF´s atrocities as self-defense." I am presenting the IDF's defense of Israel and its citizens as self-defense. I know you have a very different opinion. What you call "atrocities," I regard as unfortunate civilian casualties in urban warfare. As I've written in the past, I don't think anything can be gained by debating these points in detail.

I am aware of the tragic death of Hind Rajab. However, the deaths of 38 Israeli children on Oct. 7, 2023, were equally tragic and the deaths of Ariel Bibas (4) and Kfir Bibas (10 months) while hostages in Gaza were even more horrific.

IDF: Captors murdered children Ariel and Kfir Bibas ‘in cold blood’ with ‘their bare hands’

The Israel Defense Forces said Friday that forensic examinations have revealed that Palestinian terrorists murdered children Ariel and Kfir Bibas “with their bare hands” weeks after their kidnapping on October 7, 2023.

“We can confirm that baby Kfir Bibas, just 10 months old, and his older brother Ariel, aged four, were both brutally murdered by terrorists while being held hostage in Gaza no later than November 2023.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-captors-murdered-children-ariel-and-kfir-bibas-with-their-bare-hands/

My position on the other points @Somjot t raises is covered in this article:

Analysts say Gaza 'civilian' deaths include Hamas, other terror members working as medics, media workers

Researchers track Gaza casualties they say held dual roles as civilians and terrorists

As Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) publicly claim their dead, new research shows that many previously counted as civilians were in fact members of the terrorist organizations, undermining accusations that Israeli forces deliberately targeted civilians in Gaza.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/analysts-say-gaza-civilian-deaths-include-hamas-other-terror-members-working-medics-media-workers

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Again, and I understand how complex this must sound to you, but which specific actions do you want my opinion on? Please provide them on at a time, and I will happily address them.

Done. And you didn't answer.

Children? Hospitals? Schools? Journalists? Are they fair game?

Terrorists?

1 hour ago, Evil Penevil said:

I try to spend no more than one or two hours a day on "recreational" use of the Internet and I have other sites than AN to visit. You may have to wait awhile for my answers. 😄

I am not "trying to present the IDF´s atrocities as self-defense." I am presenting the IDF's defense of Israel and its citizens as self-defense. I know you have a very different opinion. What you call "atrocities," I regard as unfortunate civilian casualties in urban warfare. As I've written in the past, I don't think anything can be gained by debating these points in detail.

I am aware of the tragic death of Hind Rajab. However, the deaths of 38 Israeli children on Oct. 7, 2023, were equally tragic and the deaths of Ariel Bibas (4) and Kfir Bibas (10 months) while hostages in Gaza were even more horrific.

IDF: Captors murdered children Ariel and Kfir Bibas ‘in cold blood’ with ‘their bare hands’

The Israel Defense Forces said Friday that forensic examinations have revealed that Palestinian terrorists murdered children Ariel and Kfir Bibas “with their bare hands” weeks after their kidnapping on October 7, 2023.

“We can confirm that baby Kfir Bibas, just 10 months old, and his older brother Ariel, aged four, were both brutally murdered by terrorists while being held hostage in Gaza no later than November 2023.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-captors-murdered-children-ariel-and-kfir-bibas-with-their-bare-hands/

My position on the other points @Somjot t raises is covered in this article:

Analysts say Gaza 'civilian' deaths include Hamas, other terror members working as medics, media workers

Researchers track Gaza casualties they say held dual roles as civilians and terrorists

As Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) publicly claim their dead, new research shows that many previously counted as civilians were in fact members of the terrorist organizations, undermining accusations that Israeli forces deliberately targeted civilians in Gaza.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/analysts-say-gaza-civilian-deaths-include-hamas-other-terror-members-working-medics-media-workers

Ev, I think murder of children is monstrous, no matter who does it. But the IDF targeting of children is a war crime.

Could medics and journos and NGO workers be terrorists? I suppose they could theoretically but what would be their function? Suicide vests? And the source is FOX "News" making it suspect.

"Members of terrorist groups" or supporters of terrorist groups is a far cry from being terrorists themselves. One's beliefs, so far, are not criminal.

Because Hamas "may" use ambulance to transport terrorists as well as victims, the IDF should target all ambulances because there "might" be terrorists aboard.

Schools, hospitals? The IDF has lied heavily in the past, defended West Bank terrorists and obscured the truth when it suited them. Why should I belief them with hard evidence? Otherwise, it's lets blow up all hospitals and schools because they "could be" sheltering terrorists.

Are IDF soldiers copying the tactics of Hamas terrorists they claim to oppose? Nah, they're shooting anything that moves and blowing up anything that doesn't.

The destruction of civilian areas, killing civilians, because there "may be" a few terrorists abroad is not a good enough reason.

If Israel wants Hamas and Hezbollah, go in and get them, by all means. But not wholesale slaughter to no end but retribution.

I see the IDF invasion of Kamal Adwan Hospital resulted in the capture of 100 presumed terrorists. Bravo! That's the way it should be done.

I believe Hamas and Hezbollah should be disarmed, terrorist by terrorist. They have already agreed to give up all their heavy weapons. But the IDF has to show its good faith, too, by standing down in those areas and stopping missile and drone attacks.

If they won't, then the world can see that the IDF is a terrorist organisation and Israel is a terrorist state.

What is unconscionable (and mystifying) is that around 40% of Gazans still support Hamas. 90% of Israelis support the actions of the IDF. Both are shameful.

Hamas started this but I don't believe Israel is acting in "self-defence".

You're one of the sensible ones, Ev. I believe you to be honest. But certainly you can see my sincere point of view.

P.S. I'd be interested to hear what other sites you're reading.

48 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Done.

No, what I said was: Which specific actions do you want my opinion on? Please provide them on at a time.

48 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

And you didn't answer.

I did answe

48 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Children? Hospitals? Schools? Journalists? Are they fair game?

Terrorists?

Okay, here you go.

Love. Help. Need. Useless. To?

Hate.

10 hours ago, Somjot said:

Immediately the "forever victim" @Jingthing jumped in and as usual twisted my words "So not enough dead Jews for your liking, huh?" and even played the Nazi card.

There you go again with yet another one of your SLEAZY ad hominem attacks.

So if you name call me "Forever Victim" then what is your nickname? I have some ideas.

Interestingly although I don't in any way represent Israel, the topic here is Israel, and a core part of their identity and policies has been to no longer allow the Jewish people to be victims. But you'll never get that with your extremist Israel demonization bias.

My question in response your argument that the Palestinians had suffered more deaths was completely legit. The question being not enough dead Jews for you, that is.

Let me explain.

IF the Israelis had suffered many more or equal casualties you would have never complained about it. Note that you failed to answer my valid question, which of course is your preregotative.

On the Nazi point which you failed to explain the context about (another sleazy game of yours), that was your sickening attack on Ashkenazi Jews claiming their DNA was "less than" Palestinians as a far as middle east origins.

Let me explain.

The Nazis didn't have DNA technology but they did borrow white supremacist racist EUGENICS theories and practices from Jew hating Americans.

A fact many people don't know -- much of Nazism had origins in the USA.

Now IF the Nazis had had DNA tech surely they would have been much more scientific in finding all the Jews (as Askenazi genetics are very easy to test for).

The point again being the Jewish people and the Jewish religion have very strong ancient connections to the land of Israel, regardless of any weird DNA arguments.

An interesting video about the history of the many peoples who been in Israel:

2 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Done. And you didn't answer.

Children? Hospitals? Schools? Journalists? Are they fair game?

Terrorists?

You MUST know what the answer will be .

You MUST know that the answer will be ......................"Hamas used them to fire rockets from"

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Again, and I understand how complex this must sound to you, but which specific actions do you want my opinion on? Please provide them on at a time, and I will happily address them.

I´d rather say it is you who struggles with "too complex" as you are obviously not able to answer more than one question at a time.

Ok, here is your 1 question:

Why do you support a terrorist state, whose leader has an arrest warrant for war crimes, whose army (IDF) is committing war crimes like executing 5 year old Hind Rajab, who was begging for her life, plus the 2 paramedics which had a permission to rescue her, like murdering aid helpers from world's kitchen with drones, like slaughtering and burying 15 aid helpers, who were travelling on a permitted route in emergency cars with the lights fully turned on, like shooting of starving people waiting in line to get some food, like target practice on children, where they are shot in the heads on one day, in the chest on another and in the groin on the Third day, like massacring an unparalleled huge number of journalists, nurses and medics slaughtered, like creating the place with the most child amputees in the world, like the regular raping, torturing and killing of detainees and stealing their organs and whose terrorist government openly discussed the right to rape and just recently released a race based execution law?

12 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

I try to spend no more than one or two hours a day on "recreational" use of the Internet and I have other sites than AN to visit. You may have to wait awhile for my answers. 😄

Waiting is not the issue, only I never get real answers except ..

12 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

I am not "trying to present the IDF´s atrocities as self-defense." I am presenting the IDF's defense of Israel and its citizens as self-defense. I know you have a very different opinion. What you call "atrocities," I regard as unfortunate civilian casualties in urban warfare. As I've written in the past, I don't think anything can be gained by debating these points in detail.

You same as Israel claim to have a different opinion; the only problem being that this is not a matter of opinion but a matter of international law:

There is a strong consensus among legal experts and international bodies which says:

1. No right of Self-Defense against Occupied Population: The International Court of Justice (ICJ) and numerous legal scholars have indicated that an occupying power cannot invoke self-defense (Article 51 of the UN Charter) against the population it is occupying.

2. Law Enforcement vs. War: In occupied territory, the occupier is generally expected to manage security through law enforcement (policing) rather than acts of war, as the occupation is considered a "belligerent occupation" governed by International Humanitarian Law (IHL), specifically the Fourth Geneva Convention.

3. Unlawful Occupation Limitation: An occupier cannot use its unlawful presence in occupied territory to justify a "right" to self-defense to maintain that occupation, as occupation is meant to be a temporary state.

4. Occupied People's Right to Resist: Conversely, international law acknowledges the right of peoples under foreign occupation to struggle for their self-determination, including armed struggle, as highlighted by various UN General Assembly resolutions.

Consequently the October 7 attack was a war crime committed by Hamas. The ongoing war Israel has started since then was and is war crime.

12 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

I am aware of the tragic death of Hind Rajab. However, the deaths of 38 Israeli children on Oct. 7, 2023, were equally tragic and the deaths of Ariel Bibas (4) and Kfir Bibas (10 months) while hostages in Gaza were even more horrific.

IDF: Captors murdered children Ariel and Kfir Bibas ‘in cold blood’ with ‘their bare hands’

The Israel Defense Forces said Friday that forensic examinations have revealed that Palestinian terrorists murdered children Ariel and Kfir Bibas “with their bare hands” weeks after their kidnapping on October 7, 2023.

“We can confirm that baby Kfir Bibas, just 10 months old, and his older brother Ariel, aged four, were both brutally murdered by terrorists while being held hostage in Gaza no later than November 2023.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-captors-murdered-children-ariel-and-kfir-bibas-with-their-bare-hands/

Let´s not discuss why you apply this whataboutism or why you call the deaths of Ariel and Kfir even more horrific or why you write the name "Hind Rajab" in small letters but the names of Ariel and Kfir Bibas in big bold letters, but actually there are a few differences:

Hind was in that car and had to witness her family being gunned down, the only survivors being herself and her cousin, who then called the authorities begging for help only to be machinegunned by the IDF. Hind then somehow managed to call her mother who could reach the authorities in Gaza which finally got a permission from the IDF to send 2 paramedics to rescue Hind. The IDF tank later shelled the paramedic´s emergency car and put 335 bullets in the car, where Hind was waiting for help.

The Bibas kids were abducted on October 7.

On 9 October, Hamas offered to release all civilian hostages in exchange for Israeli army not entering Gaza, but the Israeli government rejected the offer.

On 17 October 2023, a Hamas official said it would release all civilian (but not military) hostages in exchange for Israel ending the bombing of the Gaza Strip. Israel rejected again.

On 29 November Hamas claimed that Shiri Bibas and her children had been killed in the Israeli bombing of Gaza.

After the release of the bodies of the Bibas kids in February 2025 IDF spokesperson Daniel Hagari stated: "The terrorists did not shoot the two young boys — they killed them with their bare hands.

Neither side has publicly provided any evidence to substantiate their claims.

Just as a reminder, Daniel Hagari is the same liar who tried to prove that the basements of Al-Shifa Hospital had been used by Hamas as headquarters by presenting a "list of names of Hamas terrorists" stuck to the basement wall, which was in Arabic and said "Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, ..."

The murder of Hind is a proven fact and matches the usual terrorist behavior of the IDF like the intentional targeting of children or medical personnel.

There is no proof that the Bibas kids were murdered except Israel claiming to have sent the results of the forensic examination to international partners, but somehow nobody has ever seen them.

I tend to believe Hamas in this case as they had no gain in killing those kids and Israel is a well known serial liar plus it is a proven fact that Israel had more than one chance to free those kids but always refused.

12 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

My position on the other points @Somjot t raises is covered in this article:

Analysts say Gaza 'civilian' deaths include Hamas, other terror members working as medics, media workers

Researchers track Gaza casualties they say held dual roles as civilians and terrorists

As Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) publicly claim their dead, new research shows that many previously counted as civilians were in fact members of the terrorist organizations, undermining accusations that Israeli forces deliberately targeted civilians in Gaza.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/analysts-say-gaza-civilian-deaths-include-hamas-other-terror-members-working-medics-media-workers

Gaza is occupied and has the right to self-defense even armed self defense and Hamas being a terror organization is just the opinion of Israel and it´s submissive partner states in the West but not the majority of the world plus being a member of a terror organization does not mean being part of their armed forces.

With the mass murder Israel committed in Gaza it is statistically very likely that some Hamas members were among them yet it remains mass murder.

However all that does not explain the target practice on children, an issue that all the pro Israelis here so perfectly and cowardly avoid.

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

There you go again with yet another one of your SLEAZY ad hominem attacks.

So if you name call me "Forever Victim" then what is your nickname? I have some ideas.

Interestingly although I don't in any way represent Israel, the topic here is Israel, and a core part of their identity and policies has been to no longer allow the Jewish people to be victims. But you'll never get that with your extremist Israel demonization bias.

My question in response your argument that the Palestinians had suffered more deaths was completely legit. The question being not enough dead Jews for you, that is.

Let me explain.

IF the Israelis had suffered many more or equal casualties you would have never complained about it. Note that you failed to answer my valid question, which of course is your preregotative.

Just to remind you of the context: I had expressed my desperation about "some members, who have the same values, morals and sense of justice like me are capable of rightfully condemning the murder of 1200 innocent people but at the same time support the mass slaughter of 100.000"

Another BM wrote about densely populated areas, human shields and asked "how is Israel supposed to defend itself?"

I answered with a chart showing the disproportionate high numbers of killed Gazans compared to killed Israelis over the years long before October 7 pointing out that his explanations do not justify the intentional murder of civilians or children.

Then you jumped in with

On 4/7/2026 at 8:50 PM, Jingthing said:

So not enough dead Jews for your liking, huh?

If you seriously call this a legitimate question then you understood absolutely nothing of what I wrote.

That is like if someone would discuss the significantly higher number of people killed by firearms in the US compared to Canada and blame it on the different laws about owning guns and you would ask "So not enough dead Canadians for you. Huh?"

Where have I ever made the impression that I ask for more dead Jews?

I complained about the disproportionate high numbers of killed Gazans, especially kids and about moral bankrupt people justifying that.

If it was for my liking, as you write, NOBODY WOULD DIE!

Especially not for some worthless piece of sand and because of some stupid fairy tales about a Sky daddy who created man in his own image but somehow liked some of them more than the others and therefore told them to kill the others and all that crap made up by some more or less illiterate shepherds 3 Millenia ago and still causing us to be at each other´s throats.

That is the peak of stupidity!

You try to put me into the Nazi or anti-semitic pigeonhole? Here is something for you.

After all I saw and read in the last 2,5 years I really believe Jews to be the chosen people.

I have no idea chosen by whom but I am pretty much sure chosen for what: suffering.

Just think about it. God saved them from slavery, brought all the 10 plagues down on the Egyptians with frogs and grasshoppers and <deleted> even killing their sons sparing the Jews so that they could finally leave, then even opening the Red Sea for them and drowning the evil Egyptians in it.

And what do they do after Moses left to get the Lord's commandments? They cast a golden cow and worship it.

Who does that?

Somehow it seems to me as if God never forgave them for betraying him.

So, he told them they were special, some kind of exclusive club and chosen and as he perfectly knew the human psyche, I mean he created them, right?, he knew how the rest of humanity will react: by sooner or later despising and expelling them. Or worse.

And isn´t that pretty much the summary of their last 3000 years?

They fail to understand that their religion is not freeing them, quite the opposite: it is imprisoning them, preventing them from growth and living in peace with the rest of us by separating them from us.

Have any of the Israeli/Jew supporters on here ever wondered why Jews have been persecuted, exiled, genocided against from back to biblical times, now that's a question.

7 hours ago, Somjot said:

I´d rather say it is you who struggles with "too complex" as you are obviously not able to answer more than one question at a time.

Ok, here is your 1 question:

Why do you support a terrorist state, whose leader has an arrest warrant for war crimes, whose army (IDF) is committing war crimes like executing 5 year old Hind Rajab, who was begging for her life, plus the 2 paramedics which had a permission to rescue her, like murdering aid helpers from world's kitchen with drones, like slaughtering and burying 15 aid helpers, who were travelling on a permitted route in emergency cars with the lights fully turned on, like shooting of starving people waiting in line to get some food, like target practice on children, where they are shot in the heads on one day, in the chest on another and in the groin on the Third day, like massacring an unparalleled huge number of journalists, nurses and medics slaughtered, like creating the place with the most child amputees in the world, like the regular raping, torturing and killing of detainees and stealing their organs and whose terrorist government openly discussed the right to rape and just recently released a race based execution law?

I do not now nor have I ever supported a terrorist state.

Next question.

3 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Have any of the Israeli/Jew supporters on here ever wondered why Jews have been persecuted, exiled, genocided against from back to biblical times, now that's a question.

I used to wonder, but I know now. How about you?