@save the frogs

No doubt about that.

Since childhood I´ve asked myself why in history it seems like in most cases the good guys win the wars.

Until my history teacher, a real leftist I must admit, told me with a twinkle in his eye "You should ask yourself who writes the history books?"

But what shocks me is how people who were born and educated in the West can have so different opinions and morals when it comes to the mass murder of innocent women and children with showing disgust and outrage when about 1200 people are killed while being more or less indifferent to the slaughter of 70.000 accepting and repeating even the most ridiculous and cynical justifications.

6 hours ago, Somjot said:

If Iran wants to annihilate Jews what would be easier than to start with the between 15.000 and 25.000 Jews currently living in Iran, who have never been harassed let alone harmed even since the Ayatollahs came to power.

Iran has repeatedly said it is against the Jewish land stealing apartheid state but not against a modern state where Muslims and Jews really have the same rights and it is against the land theft by Jews and demands nothing more than what the UN demands: the return of the stolen land.

Before the fall of the Shah in 1979, Iran had 80,000 to 100,000 Jews. Now less than 10.000 are left. Most Iranian Jews have fled to the U.S., Israel or Europe. Iranian Jews have been severely persecuted, everything from executions on down. Many have had their businesses and property confiscated.

https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/columnist/367294/what-will-become-of-the-jews-of-iran-part-one/

You can read about the official policy of the Islamic Republic of Iran here:

The Islamic Republic of Iran: A Decades-Long Record of Promoting Antisemitism

The Islamic Republic of Iran is the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism, antisemitism, and Holocaust denial and distortion.

Anti-Jewish and anti-Israel hate and incitement have been a core pillar and a defining feature of the Iranian regime, promoted through state media, educational system, religious sermons and international propaganda, including through Holocaust cartoon contests and annual Quds Day rallies.

https://www.adl.org/resources/article/islamic-republic-iran-decades-long-record-promoting-antisemitism

6 hours ago, Somjot said:

Again, brainwashed. The irony is that for decades Jews were safer in Iran than in Israel.

Well until Israel and the US started bombing it.

The only people attacking Jews are those whose land was stolen by them.

THAT is legitimate resistance.

Stealing land, driving out the legal owners and killing those who resist is not resistance against annihilation - it is committing annihilation.

How many more Palestinians and Lebanese must die with their families before you finally are willing to see the truth??

Weren´t 20.000 Gazan children not enough?

Count the dead and then tell me one more time who is annihilating whom.

Neither side is annihilating the other, although some Palestinian groups do want to wipe out Jews. They have the intention, not the means.

This is a chart over the growth in the population of the Palestinian territory since 1950.

The number of Israeli citizens of Palestinian Arab descent has grown to 2.2 million today from 160,000 in 1948. Where is the genocide if the population is growing so strongly?

You are conflating civilian deaths in urban warfare with a policy of genocide. In WWII, there was a huge disparity between Axis and Allied civilian casualties. Allied strategic bombing killed hundreds of thousands of German and Japanese civilians, maybe a million in total. The fire bombing of Tokyo killed 100,000 in one night.

This wasn't considered a war crime, much less genocide, because the civilian deaths were not intentional but "collateral damage."  The goal was to destroy the enemy's capacity to wage war, not to eliminate Germans or Japanese as a nation.

The situation Israel faces in Gaza is the same.

13 hours ago, Somjot said:

while being more or less indifferent to the slaughter of 70.000 accepting and repeating even the most ridiculous and cynical justifications

Because its a lie from deluded jew haters

3 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

Before the fall of the Shah in 1979, Iran had 80,000 to 100,000 Jews. Now less than 10.000 are left. Most Iranian Jews have fled to the U.S., Israel or Europe. Iranian Jews have been severely persecuted, everything from executions on down. Many have had their businesses and property confiscated.

https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/columnist/367294/what-will-become-of-the-jews-of-iran-part-one/

As usual you are changing the message of an article by quoting only selected parts of it:

Before the 1979 Islamic Revolution that ousted the Westernizing, secularizing Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, there were nearly 100,000 Jews in Iran. Today, that number is less than 10,000, according to Israeli sources, though the regime (and Jewish leaders in Iran themselves) often elevate that number to 20,000.

The part about the heavy persecution and confiscation businesses you just made up. I can´t find anything like it in the article.

It even says: It should be noted that in Iran, Jews (and Christians, Zoroastrians and other recognized religious minorities, excluding Baha’is) are considered a protected religious minority, and Jews and Christians are a people of the “ketab” (book/Bible). And unlike Jews who escaped Arab countries long ago, Iran’s Jews are not currently harassed or being killed.

3 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

You can read about the official policy of the Islamic Republic of Iran here:

The Islamic Republic of Iran: A Decades-Long Record of Promoting Antisemitism

The Islamic Republic of Iran is the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism, antisemitism, and Holocaust denial and distortion.

Anti-Jewish and anti-Israel hate and incitement have been a core pillar and a defining feature of the Iranian regime, promoted through state media, educational system, religious sermons and international propaganda, including through Holocaust cartoon contests and annual Quds Day rallies.

https://www.adl.org/resources/article/islamic-republic-iran-decades-long-record-promoting-antisemitism

This is the next biased crap.

The ADL, the anti defamation league is actually only fighting anti-Zionist movements and is well known for for a pro-Israel bias, specifically for equating anti-Zionism with antisemitism, which they openly admit and suppresses legitimate criticism of Israel and categorizes protests as "pro-Hamas" and even actively observes and modifies Wikipedia.

Even Jewish organizations like Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) have launched efforts, such as the #DropTheADL campaign, to challenge the ADL.

3 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

Neither side is annihilating the other, although some Palestinian groups do want to wipe out Jews. They have the intention, not the means.

This is a chart over the growth in the population of the Palestinian territory since 1950.

The number of Israeli citizens of Palestinian Arab descent has grown to 2.2 million today from 160,000 in 1948. Where is the genocide if the population is growing so strongly?

You are conflating civilian deaths in urban warfare with a policy of genocide.

Now THIS is disgusting and cynical on an unbearable level.

Are you really trying to downplay the mass murder of Gazans by the IDF by stating that the Gazans are still growing in numbers?

And btw YOU are whitewashing the intentional targeting and killing of women an children and the execution of Gazans who had capitulated to the IDF with civilian deaths in urban warfare.

Keep denying the undeniable.

The world has seen what Israel does and that has nothing, absolutely NOTHING to do with self-defense.

And the world will not come to a real peace until every single one of these depraved war criminals is brought to The Hague.

When the Nurnberg trials started the prosecutors had one problem: There was no international law to apply in that case.

Now there is.

Murderers have no right to exist.

18 hours ago, Somjot said:

But what shocks me is how people who were born and educated in the West can have so different opinions and morals when it comes to the mass murder of innocent women and children with showing disgust and outrage when about 1200 people are killed while being more or less indifferent to the slaughter of 70.000 accepting and repeating even the most ridiculous and cynical justifications.

4 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Because its a lie from deluded jew haters

And you are even worse. You say the mass murder in Gaza was a lie. How low can you go?

16 minutes ago, Somjot said:

And you are even worse. You say the mass murder in Gaza was a lie. How low can you go?

Lower. I hope they dont quit until ALL jew haters are eradicated. Its not your fantasy world any more. Dont start wars and whine about it when you lose.

12 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Lower. I hope they dont quit until ALL jew haters are eradicated. Its not your fantasy world any more. Dont start wars and whine about it when you lose.

I don't whine.

I mourn.

I mourn the loss of humans in the Middle East.

And the loss of humanity in the West.

37 minutes ago, Somjot said:

I don't whine.

I mourn.

I mourn the loss of humans in the Middle East.

And the loss of humanity in the West.

National Socialist adherents playing the wounded victim card LOL. Sucks to be you, the Jews won.

18 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

Neither side is annihilating the other, although some Palestinian groups do want to wipe out Jews. They have the intention, not the means.

Thank you for these references, Ev. I think I just assumed Iran’s Jews were expelled to Israel as were Jews in other Middle Eastern countries.

What is the definition of genocide? Numbers don’t matter. Genocide is the means, intent and ability (the very motto of the IDF) to wipe out a specific “nation or ethnic group” (Lemkin).

Lemkin found the UN’s 1948 definition of genocide to be so specific as to dilute his own. “Lemkin's anti-colonial conception of genocide was transformed into one that favored colonial powers.”

There are too many genocides in history to list, though Wikipedia makes an effort. I would consider much smaller cleansings as genocides.

Using Lemkin’s anti-colonial opinion of genocide, I would include the West Bank. Not only the killings and land thefts but because the people have nowhere to go.

Speaking of nowhere to go, I watched the documentary, Breaking Ranks, last night. IDF soldiers speaking up about what they and comrades did in Gaza. I can’t see any excuse which would be able to explain this destruction away with “the banality of evil” but genocide.

What shattered me in particular were those lines of corpses so reminiscent of photos from the camps.

Even with virtually every young Israeli in the IDF, the Israeli public is largely unaware or disbelieves the scale of the atrocities there or are closet racists. Israel, like most nations, thrives on propaganda.

As you know, I have great affinity for Jewish culture. But I can’t hide my conscience against atrocities. Call it ethnic cleansing, if it makes you feel any better.

Gaza, every inch, has been destroyed. It worked so well the IDF is enjoying those same tactics in Lebanon. Beirut is far from Southern Lebanon which Israel claims to be the hideout of Hezbollah. Looking at the ‘before’ pictures, it was also vibrant and beautiful, as was Gaza.

If Israel is precisely targeting Hezbollah leaders hiding in Beirut, go for it. If it’s just more wanton killing, it’s a war crime.

According to AI, Iran has about 100 synagogues, some 100 years old. How are these funded with a vibrant Jewish community?

“Zionism” is punishable by death but Judaism is a protected religion. There’s wine permitted for Shabbat, a Jewish MP.

“In 2014, the regime extended a much-appreciated gesture to the Jewish community by unveiling a monument that honored Jewish soldiers who had fallen during the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988), in which over one million people died. That gesture helped Jews feel recognized as an identity by which they have always viewed themselves: Iranian.” (Jewish Journal of Los Angeles)

The JJ also tells us that it was a “worldwide false reporting that the IDF” bombed a Gaza Hospital. In fact, only four of Gaza’s 36 hospitals were not bombed by Israel..

It terrifies me that Israel has the bomb and will not even admit to it. Israel has demonstrated such aggression that it is far more likely to use it than Iran would be.

So, 100k under the Shah, arguably 20k today. Where did those 80k Jews go? And if Iran’s Jews don’t feel safe, why don’t they emigrate? That question was rhetorical.

They don’t leave because they have roots, precisely the same as Arabs in the West Bank. Families stay where the bones are buried. Even prisons can become home.

Although I do not read Hebrew, I read the JJ review of Menashri’s 600-page book on Iranian Jews in Israel, and followed to Part Two of Rafael’s articles.

I think it’s time for Jews to stop relying on antisemitism, just as women have given up on calling out misogyny. It’s futile. The answer is “sticks and stones”…

Why, for instance, did Israel attack Iran? Was there an agenda? A goal? It doesn’t seem so. And now the fanatics in Israel have dragged in the US fanatics. They all should take what marbles they have left and go home.

A bigger question is why Iran continues to fund Hamas & Hezbollah. Obviously, their tactics haven’t worked so why bother? Cut off those funds and there’s no more reason to fight.

Of course, I had to check out Iran’s Holocaust cartoons. They are despicable, of course, in the way they deny historical truth. But some of them are undeniably creative, even funny and broach subjects I’d never thought about before.

So…would you have these banned from public view? What end would that serve? To whom would they appeal? I think censorship would only encourage hating the haters. And, in the grand scheme of things, so what? Grow a skin.

The bearded Hasid seeing Hitler in the mirror should have, in my view, been replaced with Ben-Gvir, or perhaps Tomer Bar. The Wall Street Wailing Wall could have replaced Jews with MAGAs.

On the other hand, the Charlie Hebdo cartoons seemed to me to be merely a joke, as would mocking cartoons of Abraham, Moses and Noah.

But this cartoon says it all…

18 hours ago, Yagoda said:

National Socialist adherents playing the wounded victim card LOL. Sucks to be you, the Jews won.

The bitter irony is that I am the one who is opposing the mass slaughter of Palestinians and the intentional killing of innocent women and children by those who consider themselves superior while you are siding with them even celebrating their victory, if genocide can be called like this.

Yet in your world I am the Nazi.

49 minutes ago, Somjot said:

The bitter irony is that I am the one who is opposing the mass slaughter of Palestinians and the intentional killing of innocent women and children by those who consider themselves superior while you are siding with them even celebrating their victory, if genocide can be called like this.

Yet in your world I am the Nazi.

Yes, you are the National Socialist. Cry all you want about your Sudenten Germans, no one cares, its a new world

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Yes, you are the National Socialist. Cry all you want about your Sudenten Germans, no one cares, its a new world

The pity, Yag, is that's it's not any kind of 'new world'. It's the same old angry world where people think violence solves every problem. They've been wrong in Palestine for 87 years. Isn't it time to try something new? Like peace, for instance.

9 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

The pity, Yag, is that's it's not any kind of 'new world'. It's the same old angry world where people think violence solves every problem. They've been wrong in Palestine for 87 years. Isn't it time to try something new? Like peace, for instance.

Yet Palestine still thinks they can solve it with violence.

10 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

The pity, Yag, is that's it's not any kind of 'new world'. It's the same old angry world where people think violence solves every problem. They've been wrong in Palestine for 87 years. Isn't it time to try something new? Like peace, for instance.

Can't we all just get along?

Can't everyone be as polite as Canadians?

Apparently not!