7 minutes ago, BuffaloRider said:

They charge way more than necessary to begin with, no reason at all to tip these drivers. They earn better than your average 7/11 worker or anything else. In Vietnam you can still get a grab delivery for barely 10-15 baht.

To not even start about the fact that they nowadays mix multi orders at once and not give a sht if your food arrives half cold on top. Since when are we supposed to tip to make them earn 20-30K delivering food on a bike. Do you tip your hospital nurses and 7/11 counter workers too? They barely earn 14,000 baht a month i most cases.

Tipping comes from the fked american culture, where they legally allowed to underpay their workers to let customers fix it with tips. Grab drivers are the last to be underpaid relatively to what they do, in all jobs.

People their reasoning to tip is so illogical. In fact it is proven by countless studies that people do that to feel good themselves in reality.

I agree American tipping culture is evil and insane.

I also agree when drivers make multiple deliveries and the food arrives cold, that is not good and I ding for that.

You can usually tell what they're up to by following them on the app.

About how much the drivers make, well that depends a lot on their level of hustle. A 7 11 worker gets a set salary. So not really comparable. If a hard working driver makes more than a 7 11 clerk, I feel it's a harder and much riskier job so well deserved.

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah it would be.

The example I gave was of a driver who's level of service I would normally ding back a tip but then when I saw the worker was a homely woman, I decided not to give my standard tip.

I doubt your brain can process the fact that tipping is not always a compliment.

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I agree American tipping culture is evil and insane.

I also agree when drivers make multiple deliveries and the food arrives cold, that is not good and I ding for that.

You can usually tell what they're up to by following them on the app.

About how much the drivers make, well that depends a lot on their level of hustle. A 7 11 worker gets a set salary. So not really comparable. If a hard working driver makes more than a 7 11 clerk, I feel it's a harder and much riskier job so well deserved.

You must be clueless on earnings then, a 7/11 hippo earns barely 12K a month (because they are that incompetent they need 3-5X the staff, else they easily would get 20-30K). Your average grab earns easily 20-25K a month. Your average nurse or fysio therapist barely gets 14,000 for 6 days a week while paying off education debt worth 3,000 for 20 years.

So the women looked more middle class so decided not to tip 10 or 20 baht. You did not save much. I have the money worked out before.

3 minutes ago, BuffaloRider said:

I doubt your brain can process the fact that tipping is not always a compliment.

I'm well aware that depending on culture and context a tip can be an insult.

But it's absurd to assert that Grab deliver drivers in Thailand feel that way about them.

Just now, Jingthing said:

I'm well aware that depending on culture and context a tip can be an insult.

But it's absurd to assert that Grab deliver drivers in Thailand feel that way about them.

Then start tipping every worker you meet, as that is the logic you apply. Else it is just a hypocrite tipping to feel good for one self.

Americans bringing their tipping fatigue

2 minutes ago, Rockyroad said:

So the women looked more middle class so decided not to tip 10 or 20 baht. You did not save much. I have the money worked out before.

I never mentioned class.

I never mentioned what my standard tip is or level of dinging when done, as that's irrelevant to the point of this topic.

About the story of the woman, I decided NOT to reduce her tip for substandard service when I saw she was a homely woman. I discriminated in a positive way. If seeking to be as fair as possible, POSITIVE discrimination doesn't meet that standard.

As said before, this doesn't bother me to not meet that standard. I've just become more conscious that's what I'm doing and thought it was a bit interesting.

2 minutes ago, Celsius said:

Americans bringing their tipping fatigue

I do not tip American style here -- PERIOD.

5 minutes ago, BuffaloRider said:

Then start tipping every worker you meet, as that is the logic you apply.

That's ridiculous.

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I do not tip American style here -- PERIOD.

What is stopping you?

Just now, Celsius said:

What is stopping you?

This is Thailand. Nobody is stopping me. I could give all the drivers 1000 baht for 200 baht orders if I wanted to. I do not.

Here I don't take the level of the order into account at all. Same policy for a 100 baht or 1000 baht order.

There is one area where I can't help myself but to wildly overtip. Hair stylists.

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I never mentioned class.

I never mentioned what my standard tip is or level of dinging when done, as that's irrelevant to the point of this topic.

About the story of the woman, I decided NOT to reduce her tip for substandard service when I saw she was a homely woman. I discriminated in a positive way. If seeking to be as fair as possible, POSITIVE discrimination doesn't meet that standard.

As said before, this doesn't bother me to not meet that standard. I've just become more conscious that's what I'm doing and thought it was a bit interesting.

What is a homely woman? How did you decide this?

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There is one area where I can't help myself but to wildly overtip. Hair stylists.

Bald choice.

1 hour ago, BuffaloRider said:

You must be clueless on earnings then, a 7/11 hippo earns barely 12K a month (because they are that incompetent they need 3-5X the staff, else they easily would get 20-30K). Your average grab earns easily 20-25K a month. Your average nurse or fysio therapist barely gets 14,000 for 6 days a week while paying off education debt worth 3,000 for 20 years.

I saw some expensive cars in the staff carpark at BKK Pattaya hospital so don't tell me the dentists etc are on 14k a month

1 hour ago, BuffaloRider said:

They charge way more than necessary to begin with, no reason at all to tip these drivers. They earn better than your average 7/11 worker or anything else. In Vietnam you can still get a grab delivery for barely 10-15 baht.

To not even start about the fact that they nowadays mix multi orders at once and not give a sht if your food arrives half cold on top. Since when are we supposed to tip to make them earn 20-30K delivering food on a bike. Do you tip your hospital nurses and 7/11 counter workers too? They barely earn 14,000 baht a month i most cases.

Tipping comes from the fked american culture, where they legally allowed to underpay their workers to let customers fix it with tips. Grab drivers are the last to be underpaid relatively to what they do, in all jobs.

People their reasoning to tip is so illogical. In fact it is proven by countless studies that people do that to feel good themselves in reality. In many cases it is even offensive with foreigners doing it to locals, as they basically say, here is a tip because you earn fk all, your job sucs.

Sure if you order from the most remote possible shop and a guy drives all the way in time on top, i'd give 10-20 extra for the gas, but even that is a mindfck as grab charges you accordingly. Despite what we think the algo will ensure he earns stable with e.g. his next orders being nearby etc etc. There is no need for human interference anymore.

I do not concur for massage staff, taxis, and restaurants - if service is good tip. Cleaners in hotel at end of trip. Not sure about deliveries - haven't had much experience but I suppose a small tip is a nice gesture. No way any of those parties would be offended. Maybe outside tourist areas the situation is a little different but Pattaya is a tourist area.

The people working for Grab or Bolt have no real other choice of work. And both Bolt and Grab pay them peanuts in order to offer the lowest price possible.

The Grab and Bolt motorbike drivers have to pay for their room (minimum 3000 more often 3500), their electricity, water ( 900), AIS (599 for their job), food (150/ person minimum/day), gazoline (increasing and they do it once a day for at least 200 bahts, that's 6000 a month), motorbike depreciation and maintenance (50 bahts/day), diverse things like doctors, clothes (50 bahts a day on average). All this is a minimum spending with no pleasure in life and no rack...sorry, fine by the police.

Total = 23000 baht a month, with 8000 directly related to the job.

Most of them work 7 days a week, 10 hours a day on the motorbike. And they meet on average 5 customers a day (according to the internet). The Internet evaluates their monthly revenue at 18,000 baht/month.

So, through tips, they need at least 5000 baht more than they get. With 5 customers a day, 30 days a month, it means they need an average tip of 5000/5*30 = 33 baht ($1) per customer.

Of course, this is an estimate, but not far from reality.

As for the tip, I personally give 30 baht to a Grab or Bolt driver (less than 10 kms), 100 baht for a massage, and 30 to 40 baht per person in a restaurant (and do not forget that the Grab driver has to go to the shop or restaurant first).

Keep in mind that I have been coming to Pattaya for the last 45 years, and I have never seen such a low level of employment. The Thaïs are struggling.

I have valued and admired your expertise and balanced advice in many areas offered to members here over the years.

I am therefore totally dismayed at your complete ignorance and indifference to the gig workers in Thai.

Can't get of your ass and get your own sh%t but complain or worry for a few extra baht for someone struggling to survive ?

Guess I had you all wrong.

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

In Thailand it is a choice anyway.

In the U.S. you must tip and tip well -- OR ELSE!

My situation is that for convenience I've come up with my own defined tipping policy for Grab Food drivers, but I found that for "human" factors, I don't stick to it. I found that interesting to realize.

I still remember going to a fancy restaurant years ago with some friends in Los Angeles and the service was absolutely atrocious, the waiter was incredibly arrogant, and dismissive and when we left even though it was a pretty high bill we left one penny as a tip. The waiter chased us out the door onto the sidewalk, started berating and screaming at us and asking us what we were thinking?

I just told him straight up what we were thinking was that we just got the worst service imaginable, you are a professional, your job is in the service industry, and if you can't muster up some acting skills and at least act polite and friendly you don't deserve a tip. Get back into the restaurant right now before I slap you around. He shut up and disappeared. And likely he remembers that incident to this day.

Here I always tip the delivery drivers and I always tip waiters and waitresses, and the small amount of money means absolutely nothing to us, but it means a great deal to them.

20 minutes ago, Milrem said:

The people working for Grab or Bolt have no real other choice of work. And both Bolt and Grab pay them peanuts in order to offer the lowest price possible.

The Grab and Bolt motorbike drivers have to pay for their room (minimum 3000 more often 3500), their electricity, water ( 900), AIS (599 for their job), food (150/ person minimum/day), gazoline (increasing and they do it once a day for at least 200 bahts, that's 6000 a month), motorbike depreciation and maintenance (50 bahts/day), diverse things like doctors, clothes (50 bahts a day on average). All this is a minimum spending with no pleasure in life and no rack...sorry, fine by the police.

Total = 23000 baht a month, with 8000 directly related to the job.

Most of them work 7 days a week, 10 hours a day on the motorbike. And they meet on average 5 customers a day (according to the internet). The Internet evaluates their monthly revenue at 18,000 baht/month.

So, through tips, they need at least 5000 baht more than they get. With 5 customers a day, 30 days a month, it means they need an average tip of 5000/5*30 = 33 baht ($1) per customer.

Of course, this is an estimate, but not far from reality.

As for the tip, I personally give 30 baht to a Grab or Bolt driver (less than 10 kms), 100 baht for a massage, and 30 to 40 baht per person in a restaurant (and do not forget that the Grab driver has to go to the shop or restaurant first).

Keep in mind that I have been coming to Pattaya for the last 45 years, and I have never seen such a low level of employment. The Thaïs are struggling.

What a load of pish.

25 minutes ago, Milrem said:

The people working for Grab or Bolt have no real other choice of work. And both Bolt and Grab pay them peanuts in order to offer the lowest price possible.

The Grab and Bolt motorbike drivers have to pay for their room (minimum 3000 more often 3500), their electricity, water ( 900), AIS (599 for their job), food (150/ person minimum/day), gazoline (increasing and they do it once a day for at least 200 bahts, that's 6000 a month), motorbike depreciation and maintenance (50 bahts/day), diverse things like doctors, clothes (50 bahts a day on average). All this is a minimum spending with no pleasure in life and no rack...sorry, fine by the police.

Total = 23000 baht a month, with 8000 directly related to the job.

Most of them work 7 days a week, 10 hours a day on the motorbike. And they meet on average 5 customers a day (according to the internet). The Internet evaluates their monthly revenue at 18,000 baht/month.

So, through tips, they need at least 5000 baht more than they get. With 5 customers a day, 30 days a month, it means they need an average tip of 5000/5*30 = 33 baht ($1) per customer.

Of course, this is an estimate, but not far from reality.

As for the tip, I personally give 30 baht to a Grab or Bolt driver (less than 10 kms), 100 baht for a massage, and 30 to 40 baht per person in a restaurant (and do not forget that the Grab driver has to go to the shop or restaurant first).

Keep in mind that I have been coming to Pattaya for the last 45 years, and I have never seen such a low level of employment. The Thaïs are struggling.

5 customers a day would not cover their living costs. They handle 2 or 3 orders a time so that would be two daily runs. The internet says they make 15,000 to 30,000 a month.

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

In Thailand it is a choice anyway.

In the U.S. you must tip and tip well -- OR ELSE!

My situation is that for convenience I've come up with my own defined tipping policy for Grab Food drivers, but I found that for "human" factors, I don't stick to it. I found that interesting to realize.

OR ELSE else what ??? What happens if you don't tip I haven't been to the states but I know that tipping is expected but please enlighten me .So I have eaten the meal and the bill comes out and there will be taxes and maybe a surcharge but I refuse to tip if I got poor service. What then ??.Where ever I go I usualy tip on performance and give it directly to the staff who served me.

5 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

They don't expect you to tip, they don't tip themselves when they order food on these apps. Systematic tipping is an American thing.

5 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

They don't expect you to tip, they don't tip themselves when they order food on these apps. Systematic tipping is an American thing.

5 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

They don't expect you to tip, they don't tip themselves when they order food on these apps. Systematic tipping is an American thing.

And seriously expected by wait staff in US eaterries, even at some fast food outlets.

And if the waiter considers the tip too small there's some chance the diner will get some strong words in response.

I mostly eat in my hotel room in the US. When I call room service I make it clear, don't disturb me, leave the tray outside my door and have the room service supervisor call me to tell me the tray is outside my door.

I did have one event where the room service waiter put the try outside my door then knocked on my door and at the same time slipped a note under my door with 'My tip' written on it.

From then I did a quick visit to a local supermarket, bought some bread, sliced meat, tomatoes etc and made sandwiches in my room.

Just now, scorecard said:

And seriously expected by wait staff in US eaterries, even at some fast food outlets.

And if the waiter considers the tip too small there's some chance the diner will get some strong words in response.

I mostly eat in my hotel room in the US. When I call room service I make it clear, don't disturb me, leave the tray outside my door and have the room service supervisor call me to tell me the tray is outside my door.

I did have one event where the room service waiter put the try outside my door then knocked on my door and at the same time slipped a note under my door with 'My tip' written on it. I ignored it, but later the same day I got a call from the room service supervisor telling me I needed to pay a tip for the delivey earlier in the day. I checked out of the hotel quick smart (could request tht final bill on the TV screen. I paid the bill less the high tip and went early to the airport to depart the US.

After that when in the US and some other countries I did a quick visit to a local supermarket, bought some bread, sliced meat, tomatoes etc and made sandwiches in my room. Always ensuring that the food was well wrpped and sealed in several layers of plastic wrap before depositing it in the fridge in the room.

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah it would be.

The example I gave was of a driver who's level of service I would normally ding back a tip but then when I saw the worker was a homely woman, I decided not to give my standard tip.

So did you give her a higher tip?

Due to the increase in gas prices, I have added a little more tip for motorbike taxis or GRAB. Those folks work hard and have expenses, so another extra 20 THB is not an issue for me.

8 minutes ago, Taboo2 said:

Due to the increase in gas prices, I have added a little more tip for motorbike taxis or GRAB. Those folks work hard and have expenses, so another extra 20 THB is not an issue for me.

Good point.

I would expect Grab will be increasing their pay and also increasing the delivery charges to customers.

49 minutes ago, scorecard said:

So did you give her a higher tip?

As explained the service was subpar but I still tipped as if it was good

2 hours ago, Shwaman said:

I have valued and admired your expertise and balanced advice in many areas offered to members here over the years.

I am therefore totally dismayed at your complete ignorance and indifference to the gig workers in Thai.

Can't get of your ass and get your own sh%t but complain or worry for a few extra baht for someone struggling to survive ?

Guess I had you all wrong.

You might say I'm lazy to order from a nearby place but as I don’t have a vehicle I give business to places that aren't otherwise accessible that I would never otherwise visit. I'm sorry you incorrectly think that I don't appreciate hard working Thais. As stated I give them all a set tip but do reduce it a bit for poor service.

How I.tip may be seen as mean to some and foolishly excessive to others.

Impossible to meet the approval of all.

Cheers.

2 hours ago, wavodavo said:

OR ELSE else what ??? What happens if you don't tip I haven't been to the states but I know that tipping is expected but please enlighten me .So I have eaten the meal and the bill comes out and there will be taxes and maybe a surcharge but I refuse to tip if I got poor service. What then ??.Where ever I go I usualy tip on performance and give it directly to the staff who served me.

FAFO

https://youtube.com/shorts/lY411JKqaiQ?si=PBfQW1iCMM3QZyu6