2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Doesn't matter what you think as it's the way it is. You have a computer, so research more, and don't get into a topic you know little about just to start arguments. For thousands of years you weren't around, so you have no idea what went on.

The fact remains, that the wrong medicines have caused some to follow through with their suicides, and thousands who have not taken their lives being on meds. Sometimes nothing will stop a person who's committed to it.

Sometimes all it takes is a trial to help the symptoms they have, until they can weather the storm. Some get so low they think nothing will help them, although they don't realize tomorrow might be a better day. If you read what I wrote and not skim, you'll see what I said about what can be done.

The medicines can work, and prevent suicidal thoughts from taking them over, as has been proven thousands of times. Those people would not be here if they weren't put on meds, as severe depression gets to a point, then they decide to go. Mild and moderate depression can be helped with what I posted, as well as seasonal and environmental, which I also mentioned.

Of course some doctors are quick to prescribe all medicines, and cause thousands of deaths yearly. there are also doctors who actually do their jobs and monitor a patients progress, after diagnosis of them, including their diets, lifestyle, environment, stress, and family history.

My ex girlfriend, mother of my one daughter, has clinical depression, as did her mom and dad. Dad hung himself because there wasn't the help back then there is now. Her mom struggled all of her life until she passed. One day mean the next nice, all the time I knew her.

My best friend, a very intelligent, class clown type (Robin Williams), was married, working, hobbies,great wife, good family and many friends, yet he took his life because back in 1987 there also wasn't the help there is now. His diet was good, always busy doing something , exercising, playing hockey, but he would sleep more then necessary, up until noon the next day many times. We didn't understand it back then, until later when my ex showed signs. That's when I decided to study up on depression so I could help my girlfriend.

My ex only improved when she was on meds, although the first one didn't work. She eventually stopped, and then went back to her normal self. Mood swings, sleeping a lot, not wanting to do anything, no enjoyment besides the times she was up to normal. She couldn't take care of our daughter because of this, and gave me custody, as she knew I would take care of her. We split, she became a truck driver, and is to this day, doing a job that keeps her busy, which helps with depression. Our daughter struggles with it also. That genetic factor shows the clinical side, which needs constant monitoring, meds, talk therapy, and the others I listed above.

Some people never get past that and have it all their lives. Treatment resistant depression. Some will improve over time no matter what methods are used. Some use meds and it works, and some don't and it passes. Having a healthy lifestyle always helps.

Are you sure you are posting on the right Topic?

This is not: Do you believe in God? And, why?

Belief is belief.

Science is science.

Never the twain shall meet.

21 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I have heard of the disease, and I am thankful that I do not suffer from it.

It is not, normally, curable.

One can treat suffers using psychosocial therapy and add community and social support.

Depending upon the nature and seriousness, we must house these individuals apart from society.

Unfortunately, all community treatment centers have been closed down (not all but most), and we have opted to house suffers in prisons and jails, instead.

Pure Bedlam, IMHO....

There are still thousands of community centers that are open in the US.

22 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I have heard of the disease, and I am thankful that I do not suffer from it.

There are still thousands of community centers that are open in the US.

Just now, GammaGlobulin said:

Are you sure you are posting on the right Topic?

This is not: Do you believe in God? And, why?

Belief is belief.

Science is science.

Never the twain shall meet.

Are you sure you know what this topic is about, seeing you made that statement? Oh wait, you started the topic.

Just now, fredwiggy said:

Are you sure you know what this topic is about, seeing you made that statement? Oh wait, you started the topic.

This Topic is about the lack of science rigor in modern medicine.

This Topic is about patients being harmed by this lack of science in modern-medicine.

This Topic is NOT about debating with you about religion or your belief system, as it applies to various aspects of your life.

8 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

This is a pure example of treating the symptoms, which you originally stated you were so against.

Instead, if you wanted to treat the cause, then you would need further investigation of the local conditions and the environment, and then adjust the environment to remove the offending cause.

Let us get this straight, this time, please.

Wrong again, Traditional medicine main goal cause, not symptoms. As with most ailments, cause is due to weakened immune system. Western medicine weakens immune systems.

Just now, GammaGlobulin said:

This Topic is about the lack of science rigor in modern medicine.

This Topic is about patients being harmed by this lack of science in modern-medicine.

This Topic is NOT about debating with you about religion or your belief system, as it applies to various aspects of your life.

Where did you find me arguing about religion? Maybe you could use some therapy. Like I said, research more, don't go by opinions, and don't skim, as you miss the crux of what some here write. Facts are, thousands of people who were contemplating suicide have been saved by meds. I did not say they were supposed to be a permanent solution, just that some are on them for years.There are other methods one can use, as each case is individual and the only way they know what works is to try.

Edited August 5Aug 5 by fredwiggy

18 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Talking about being a bigot, then starting with personal insults while bringing in unsupported personal beliefs. Talking about irony. You can believe what you want. My claims were simply what I believe works in Chinese medicine, in the context of what is being discussed here.

What? come again? No bigotry or insult implied. Just a correction of an erroneous comment that you made and you were wrong and are hurt by it and it looks emblematic of why some people resort to drugs that are inclined to such reactions. Think about for a moment before you step in it again.

4 minutes ago, ArchieBunker said:

What? come again? No bigotry or insult implied. Just a correction of an erroneous comment that you made and you were wrong and are hurt by it and it looks emblematic of why some people resort to drugs that are inclined to such reactions. Think about for a moment before you step in it again.

Your pattern is to make it personal. You are free to try again when you understand what my reply to Gamma was about, the state of the thread, and the discussion we were actually having. Instead, you twist it into something else and add new personal insults. Weak, if you ask me.

I believe in a red guitar, 3 chords and the truth.

2 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

The fault is not that of your brother.

He is the victim of mental healthcare abuse.

He should sue the pushers.

I think he was unlucky but wish he would have made better decisions. I don't blame him but what a mess. I've never been addicted to anything but I've talked to many that have an kicking benzos and opioids is hellish and even dangerous. I don't know how drugs like Xanax( benzo ) are prescribed now but back in the 1990's is was easy to get a prescription that could ultimately wreck your life.

Many using benzos for anxiety figured out real quick that taking it with an opioid multiplies the experience. The type of person that takes his new $75k truck into Mexico ( Not insured for Mexico-555) and gets in a pileup that obviously was his fault. Police confiscate (steal) the truck and then tries to confront the police and demand the truck back. Got many entertaining stories.

43 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Your pattern is to make it personal. You are free to try again when you understand what my reply to Gamma was about, the state of the thread, and the discussion we were actually having. Instead, you twist it into something else and add new personal insults. Weak, if you ask me.

What? Again? No pattern to make it personal has been presented. You were wrong and it was pointed out then you took offense to it and internalized it. Do you see how that works? You really need to calm down and not let yourself get rattled and process some thought before reacting. We are all just talking here, yes? Or is your intention here is to gain only positive attention for an ego boost? If so then I’ll just say that in the world of adults who maturely developed it really doesn’t work like that.

1 hour ago, ArchieBunker said:

Wrong again

Oh....

Not, Again...!!!!!

1 hour ago, ArchieBunker said:

What? Again? No pattern to make it personal has been presented. You were wrong and it was pointed out then you took offense to it and internalized it. Do you see how that works? You really need to calm down and not let yourself get rattled and process some thought before reacting. We are all just talking here, yes? Or is your intention here is to gain only positive attention for an ego boost? If so then I’ll just say that in the world of adults who maturely developed it really doesn’t work like that.

If you believe this kind of manipulation does you any good, try it on someone else.

All humans should watch this video:

Here is a doctor, a psychiatrist, who is both informed, and also tells the truth.

Most doctors who know the truth are unwilling to stand up.

If only from the perspective of an understanding of the human brain's homeostatic mechanisms, one should never take psychotropic drugs, long term.

The drug companies do not test these drugs using trials that last for more than THREE MONTHS, anyway.

Even the drug companies are unable to predict how these drugs will harm patients over the long-term.

And, they do not make clear just how very minimal are any possible benefits, compared to the control group.

CORRUPTION in the Healthcare Industry.

I can understand the up take in the USA. Americans love tablets. As one American told me "If a new drug comes out, the American people will want it even if they don't need it".

25 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

I can understand the up take in the USA. Americans love tablets. As one American told me "If a new drug comes out, the American people will want it even if they don't need it".

Drug use is high in the US, but also in most other countries, especially Germany, Switzerland, japan, Korea, France, Canada, and Greece, among others close per capita. It follows with the obesity and junk food eating, which all countries are increasing with. Japan, Germany and France sometimes pass the US per capita in volume used.

On 8/4/2026 at 1:14 PM, fredwiggy said:

Actually it's over 60% for the medicines vs' 30% with a placebo. There are a few types of depression and that makes the point about which ones are on placebos, as seasonal and environmental depression will improve anyway in time or if the patient is taken out of the environments. The point is they need to be constantly monitored, adjusted and changed if needed.

I know these people for decades who are still totally functional using meds whereas before they were wrecks. They've had good doctors who did monitor them over time. The benefits are obvious. They're still alive, along with thousands upon thousands of others who have been on the correct ones with a good doctor.

Baloney.

If you want to re-learn how to design a valid trial, or experiement, then please go back to school.

Also, when you return to uni, I just hope that you will NOT neglect to enroll in one solid year of STATISTICS for science fields.

STATISTICS is a year-long course which all students love.

I can only presume that you failed the course, and so....TAKE IT AGAIN, why don't you?

58 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Drug use is high in the US, but also in most other countries, especially Germany, Switzerland, japan, Korea, France, Canada, and Greece, among others close per capita. It follows with the obesity and junk food eating, which all countries are increasing with. Japan, Germany and France sometimes pass the US per capita in volume used.

This time: We agree.

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Baloney.

If you want to re-learn how to design a valid trial, or experiement, then please go back to school.

Also, when you return to uni, I just hope that you will NOT neglect to enroll in one solid year of STATISTICS for science fields.

STATISTICS is a year-long course which all students love.

I can only presume that you failed the course, and so....TAKE IT AGAIN, why don't you?

Like I said, research instead of picking a topic just to argue. I've done this for decades . Not a few weeks. You haven't shown anything that disagrees with anything I've said. Reason? it's based on facts. Now go back again, and READ what I wrote. Not skim, as you're obviously missing what I've been saying about the meds used for depression.

I know what stats mean, and again, you haven't shown anything but saying the Scientific Approach. I know doctors, read books, thousands of articles, and actually lived with people and were friends with and family of many who have depression.

I don't need to assume that you're comprehension level is very poor, needing AI to try and prove nothing but how stats work, which all adults know before they leave high school, and that you obviously are missing what I wrote many times.

I understood about what Big Pharma does likely long before you did, as my ex wife was a big believer in her doctors, who over prescribed her until her body couldn't take it any longer and she died from them.

You haven't been to the US in decades, and like a few others here that never have or only visited, you have little idea what goes on there besides watching a few videos (as you're addicted to), and some news. Not reading those thousands of articles and books.

Not a good idea to join the ranks of the assumers here.

Edited August 6Aug 6 by fredwiggy

32 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Now go back again, and READ what I wrote.

Must I....really?

Or, might it be better to just have Gemini condense what you have written into one concise synoopsis?

The human body is not a "marvellous machine", it is a viciously malfunctioning machine. Not only does it malfunction, but it thwarts the treatments administered to it. Your body stubbornly refuses to sleep when you go to bed. You take sleeping pills to remedy that. Immediately your body starts fighting the sleeping pill in order to make it ineffective and the insomnia gets only worse. Instead of fighting the sleeping pill, why does the damn thing not correct itself and function as it should so that you sleep at night?

Same vicious circle with depression etc.

6 minutes ago, JackGats said:

The human body is not a "marvellous machine", it is a viciously malfunctioning machine. Not only does it malfunction, but it thwarts the treatments administered to it. Your body stubbornly refuses to sleep when you go to bed. You take sleeping pills to remedy that. Immediately your body starts fighting the sleeping pill in order to make it ineffective and the insomnia gets only worse. Instead of fighting the sleeping pill, why does the damn thing not correct itself and function as it should so that you sleep at night?

Same vicious circle with depression etc.

Perhaps the lack of prevention is the cause.

14 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Must I....really?

Or, might it be better to just have Gemini condense what you have written into one concise synoopsis?

Okay, here.........Do not skim if you're trying to understand all of what one writes.

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Drug use is high in the US, but also in most other countries, especially Germany, Switzerland, japan, Korea, France, Canada, and Greece, among others close per capita. It follows with the obesity and junk food eating, which all countries are increasing with. Japan, Germany and France sometimes pass the US per capita in volume used.

What do you mean by drug use, illegal drugs, prescriptions, spending or the actual volume consumed? You are making strong claims here without providing any evidence. When it comes to classified drug use and obesity, I believe the US is still leading by a clear margin.

14 minutes ago, JackGats said:

The human body is not a "marvellous machine", it is a viciously malfunctioning machine. Not only does it malfunction, but it thwarts the treatments administered to it. Your body stubbornly refuses to sleep when you go to bed. You take sleeping pills to remedy that. Immediately your body starts fighting the sleeping pill in order to make it ineffective and the insomnia gets only worse. Instead of fighting the sleeping pill, why does the damn thing not correct itself and function as it should so that you sleep at night?

Same vicious circle with depression etc.

If you look at God's creation objectively, you will see that it is a wonder of nature, but it's supposed to break down with it's flaws. Some faster than others, as living forever was never part of the plan but a temporary thing.

You can do everything the Blue Zone people do, have great genetics where your ancestors live long lives, and you'll still last less then 120 years.

Staying away from any medicines is always best, but that imperfect body will eventually need at least some, no matter what you do. Doing what you can regarding diet, exercise, lowering stress and living in a safe environment will help, but again, sh*t happens to everyone eventually.

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

What do you mean by drug use, illegal drugs, prescriptions, spending or the actual volume consumed? You are making strong claims here without providing any evidence. When it comes to classified drug use and obesity, I believe the US is still leading by a clear margin.

By that I meant prescription drugs. Yes, the US does lead all other countries, but japan, France and Germany do surpass the US in volume per capita at times

The United States leads the world in total spending and per capita costs for prescription drugs, averaging roughly $1,200 to $1,500 per person annually. However, when measuring actual physical volume or the number of doses taken per person, Western European nations like Germany and France, as well as Japan, frequently match or exceed the U.S. in per capita utilization. . ..............https://www.singlecare.com/blog/news/prescription-drug-statistics/

31 minutes ago, JackGats said:

The human body is not a "marvellous machine"

Speak for yourself.

MY bod is a marvelous machine, and so is my miraculous brain.

BUT, I have never subjected my brain to the insults of psychotropic drugs, unlike most on TV, so apparently.

10 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

By that I meant prescription drugs. Yes, the US does lead all other countries, but japan, France and Germany do surpass the US in volume per capita at times

The United States leads the world in total spending and per capita costs for prescription drugs, averaging roughly $1,200 to $1,500 per person annually. However, when measuring actual physical volume or the number of doses taken per person, Western European nations like Germany and France, as well as Japan, frequently match or exceed the U.S. in per capita utilization. . ..............https://www.singlecare.com/blog/news/prescription-drug-statistics/

There is no dispute that the US leads in prescription drug spending per person. My question is about your claim on volume. Volume depends on how it is measured and by which drug class, so you need to provide the underlying data rather than a summary article.

An important factor is that many medicines requiring a prescription elsewhere are sold without one in the US. The US has moved many medicines from prescription to over the counter use, so prescription volume alone may not show the total amount of medicine being used.

The classification also varies between countries and drug types, so a fair comparison must include both prescription and non prescription use of the same medicines.

2 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Speak for yourself.

MY bod is a marvelous machine, and so is my miraculous brain.

BUT, I have never subjected my brain to the insults of psychotropic drugs, unlike most on TV, so apparently.

eWhen people rely on assuming ,like you do many times, it looks like you are taking drugs, altering your thinking into a miasma of incomprehension, skimming, false pretenses and prejudic. Before you make such a grandiose statement, you actually need to know someone personally here and their daily habits, let along most on Aseannow. A real genius would understand this.

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

There is no dispute that the US leads in prescription drug spending per person. My question is about your claim on volume. Volume depends on how it is measured and by which drug class, so you need to provide the underlying data rather than a summary article.

An important factor is that many medicines requiring a prescription elsewhere are sold without one in the US. The US has moved many medicines from prescription to over the counter use, so prescription volume alone may not show the total amount of medicine being used.

The classification also varies between countries and drug types, so a fair comparison must include both prescription and non prescription use of the same medicines.

When I post a link, it's always from a reputable source so others won't be biased or confused and opinions mean nothing That those other countries sometimes surpass the US is factual.

Other nations lead in physical volume: Studies tracking physical doses or standard units show that countries like Japan and various Western European nations have a higher per capita volume of medicine consumption. US expenditure is more, but those others have more pill use per capita

While the United States consistently ranks highest in total and per capita financial expenditure on pharmaceuticals due to high brand-name drug prices, countries like France, Japan, and Germany frequently match or surpass the U.S. in terms of physical volume or per capita utilization rates of specific medicine

Volume vs. Spending Dynamics

• Per Capita Use: Reports from international health data groups like IQVIA show that Western Europe and Japan regularly exhibit high per capita prescription and medicine use [1.4], often double that of other global regions.

• Aging Demographics: Japan has an older population, leading to high baseline volumes of chronic disease management medications per resident.

• National Insurance Systems: Broad statutory health coverage in France and Germany encourages consistent patient access and regular fulfillment of maintenance therapies, driving up unit volume even as net prices remain strictly regulated.Here's another....................https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK611303/table/international.tab1/

Edited August 6Aug 6 by fredwiggy