10 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Most would rather swallow a pill and not do the heavy lifting. Sure it rarely fixes the issue but it is easy :) We just went through 2-3 years of Covid and people are fatter and unhealthier than before the pandemic which was the reason so many died. People are addicted to easy fixes and meds and vaccines are what the masses want. I got vaccinated three time so not an anti-vax rant but just saying.....

Part of What we see today is a constant flow of information that harms many vulnerable people because the algorithms keep them in their loop, and it can become almost impossible to get out once they have started paying attention to controversial information. Maybe social media has to start taking more responsibility for poor mental health.

13 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Most would rather swallow a pill and not do the heavy lifting. Sure it rarely fixes the issue but it is easy :) We just went through 2-3 years of Covid and people are fatter and unhealthier than before the pandemic which was the reason so many died. People are addicted to easy fixes and meds and vaccines are what the masses want. I got vaccinated three time so not an anti-vax rant but just saying.....

If life was that easy, swallow a pill, smoke a joint, sabai sabai, even life in paradise becomes something else than you expected, and the list goes on. Life is a struggle and was never meant to be easy. Thinking otherwise would be naive.

What I figured out is that hard work pays off. Consistency matters, and after a while it becomes more effortless than it was in the beginning because you get used to it. I am not saying my ideas or experiences fit everyone, but there is a base there worth exploring for people who feel they are not going anywhere.

2 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I know only one who killed himself, by jumping from the roof of a building.

He had been prescribed a ton of BENZOS.....

For many, once they consume benzos for months, on a daily basis, then they are up the creek without a paddle.

Prescribed drugs have ruined my brothers life. He has been a heavy user for decades and getting off them is a scarry hell and usually takes multiple attempts. My brother tried locking him in a room and nursing him through the last attempt a year ago. He looked like a a half dead wet cat for 10 days.. Went back on the drugs within 60 days! He has gone from $10 mil homes to bankruptcy and the roller coaster continues....

I don't blame him because what is the point. Wish he never started on the prescribed drugs and he would have been so much happier.

21 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I do not agree.

When they cycle off these meds, then they suffer the affects of injury (changes in the brain caused by these drugs, or reactions to these drugs).

These symptoms are NOT the "disease" returning.

Instead, obviously, these are symptoms of withdrawl and injury.

As I mentioned, this is the most insidious aspect and result of these drugs.

Is there a cure?

Maybe, probably, YES....if enough time is allowed after cessation of consumption.

I have never taken any antipsychotics, so I cannot really answer that. But I have read several articles on long term use and cycling off, and I have seen it personally in life. It is not pretty. Just like coming off alcohol or drugs, it is not easy, and some stimulants and medications may be more harmful than others.

What I have seen most often is people with serious mental illness stopping their medication because they feel they are no longer sick. The medication that kept them stable is suddenly gone, they relapse into severe illness, and have to start all over again. What I have personally seen is that those who struggle most are often the ones who do not want to admit they have a problem in the beginning and do not see the harm they are doing to themselves.

47 minutes ago, Hummin said:

There are people who cycle on and off medication and become severely ill every time they stop, only to start again. For many of them, the medication keeps them stable, but once they feel better they believe they are no longer sick and stop taking it. That is the most common pattern I have personally seen. Most people, however, use medication for a shorter period and never need it again, either on its own or together with other forms of treatment.

Talking can be life changing if the person understands what needs to be done and manages to use the tools they gain through cognitive therapy, together with their own effort and self help. Another common mistake is to mask the symptoms with other “medications” and believe that keeps them in check, mostly because they want it to be true. But they often remain stuck in the same place.

Healing is often a total package. Discipline, diet, exercise and mind work all take effort and training. Even simple exercises can help change patterns of thought instead of constantly feeding negativity. Medication can be part of it when necessary, but the mind is like a garden. You cultivate what you sow and nurture, and I cannot stress that enough.

Life is like a garden:

Chauncey Gardiner, the Gardener?

Sellers was amazing in his best film.

Sellers was another tortured soul.

19 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Prescribed drugs have ruined my brothers life. He has been a heavy user for decades and getting off them is a scarry hell and usually takes multiple attempts. My brother tried locking him in a room and nursing him through the last attempt a year ago. He looked like a a half dead wet cat for 10 days.. Went back on the drugs within 60 days! He has gone from $10 mil homes to bankruptcy and the roller coaster continues....

I don't blame him because what is the point. Wish he never started on the prescribed drugs and he would have been so much happier.

The fault is not that of your brother.

He is the victim of mental healthcare abuse.

He should sue the pushers.

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

There are times when medication can serve people well, especially after proper screening and with long term illness. But it should not be handed out after a 15 minute visit with a local doctor and no proper follow up.

That's what I called "responsible psychiatrist". These are in no way "local doctors" as you mentioned

46 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

As far as suicides from depression. it's prevented thousands.Those with depression don't kill others but themselves. Those who are violent need something to keep them calmer, and there's nothing available now that will do that right now.Thousands of case studies where people were contemplating suicide and stopped because of medicines taken.

You mean, the placebo effect has prevented a few tragedies....do you not?

So far, you have not provided any evidence of long-term efficacy for any psychotropic drug.

Just provide your evidence, based on controlled trials, and we will all believe you.

Just try to not drink TOO much of the Kool-Aid

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by GammaGlobulin

45 minutes ago, novacova said:

Quite astonishing, nearly half the population of the US is under the influence of psychotropic mind altering mood stabilizers, frik’n insane.

NO...not half of the population.

25 percent female, and about 22 percent of males....

EQUALS about 24 percent of the adult population.

Google it.

People are unhappy for various reasons—someone's wife left them, someone's loved one died, or they're unsuccessful at work. Obviously, no medicine can make someone successful, bring back their wife, or resurrect the dead. So what can medicine do? It can only make you indifferent—in other words, a vegetable.

27 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I have never taken any antipsychotics, so I cannot really answer that. But I have read several articles on long term use and cycling off, and I have seen it personally in life. It is not pretty. Just like coming off alcohol or drugs, it is not easy, and some stimulants and medications may be more harmful than others.

What I have seen most often is people with serious mental illness stopping their medication because they feel they are no longer sick. The medication that kept them stable is suddenly gone, they relapse into severe illness, and have to start all over again. What I have personally seen is that those who struggle most are often the ones who do not want to admit they have a problem in the beginning and do not see the harm they are doing to themselves.

There is no evidence that psychotropic drugs are efficacious over the long-term.

Any benefit for short-term is likely due, as you have stated, to placebo effect.

Of course, taking these drugs, short-term can affect individuals just as can the consumption of alcohol.

1 minute ago, newbee2022 said:

That's what I called "responsible psychiatrist". These are in no way "local doctors" as you mentioned

I have lost trust in the system, especially the package solution «one fix fits all», but I still believe there are professionals out there who truly make a difference when people need it. I have lived an exposed life, with hard work and activities that take a toll on people, and I have met even more from all over the world who were obviously escaping reality through extreme sports.

Many of them were ex military who had experienced live combat and everything that comes with it. Working in security, I have also spent hours talking to clients while waiting for the police to show up. What I understand is that everything comes down to yourself if you want healing and improvement in life.

Some people can help you along the way, and one meeting with one individual can have a life changing effect. I am sure many of those I have met have helped form my path without even knowing it.

Just now, GammaGlobulin said:

You mean, the placebo effect has prevented a few tragedies....do you not?

So far, you have not provided any evidence of long-term efficacy for any psychotropic drug.

Just provide your evidence, based on controlled trials, and we will all believe you.

No, they were on actual medications, and not involved in studies. When you read books by psychiatrists and psychologists, they aren't pushing drugs but trying to find results. What I've been saying all along is evidence. I'm the one who studied this for 30 years. How long have you? How many people have you lived with, gone with, been related to, or friends with that have gone though this?

Those books were written by doctors involved in private practices who prescribed the medicines, monitored the results and saw what did or did not work. You haven't provided anything besides your opinion, likely gained from others opinions.

That medicines were prescribed to those thousands of suicidal people who stopped their ideations is proof they worked. I did say they have to be monitored, changing, adjusting or weaning off of medicines after a period of time to see the changes, if there are any. Some have been living productive lives on meds for years, and some have temporary depression episodes where a trial of a medicine is tried to see what happens, and adjusted from there. Placebos aren't used for those with acute suicidal danger.

All medicines should be short term, until their mood improves and they can be weaned off them, as they all have side effects. Some improve weaned off them and some don't.Placebos and meds work for some and not for others. Both groups are similar.

Yes, a person with severe clinical depression can theoretically improve without medication, but it is risky and rare. Most severe episodes require professional treatment because intense chemical imbalances and deep despair make it nearly impossible to use self-care or regular coping tools alone.

Alternative and Intensive Treatments

If a person wants to avoid pharmaceuticals, severe depression still usually demands high-level clinical intervention instead of just lifestyle changes:

• Psychotherapy: Intensive modalities like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) or Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) driven by a licensed professional.

• Brain Stimulation: Procedures like Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) or Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT) are heavily researched and medically proven for severe or treatment-resistant cases.

• Clinical Supervision: Close monitoring by a psychiatrist or psychologist is vital to ensure safety and track worsening symptoms.

Risks of Going Without Meds

Trying to handle severe clinical depression unassisted carries major dangers:

• Prolonged Suffering: Episodes can last many months or turn chronic.

• Safety Hazards: High risk of self-harm, functional collapse, or suicidal ideation.

• No simple answers for severe clinical depression.

• As I mentioned, seasonal and environmental can be helped by lifestyle changes a lot easier than clinical.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by fredwiggy

1 minute ago, GammaGlobulin said:

There is no evidence that psychotropic drugs are efficacious over the long-term.

Any benefit for short-term is likely due, as you have stated, to placebo effect.

Of course, taking these drugs, short-term can affect individuals just as can the consumption of alcohol.

That is far too absolute. There is evidence that lithium prevents relapse in bipolar disorder over the long term, just as there is evidence that antipsychotics can prevent relapse in schizophrenia. That does not mean they are harmless or suitable for everyone, but the effect cannot simply be dismissed as placebo. Lithium was more effective than placebo in preventing relapse in long term trials.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14754766/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

There are also interesting findings from areas with naturally occurring trace lithium in drinking water, where some studies found lower suicide rates. That is not hard proof, but it adds to the evidence that lithium has effects beyond placebo.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32716281/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

The real debate is who benefits, who is harmed, how long they should be used, and whether the person is properly screened and followed up. Saying there is no evidence at all is simply not true.

One’s gotta wonder about those advocating for the use of these mind stabilizers are jacked up on them.

1 hour ago, atpeace said:

Prescribed drugs have ruined my brothers life.

Yes but why did he get on them in the first place?

Not sure you can blame the drugs 100%.

He probably was not happy with his life ... or whatever. There are unresolved psychological issues there somewhere.

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, a person with severe clinical depression can theoretically improve without medication, but it is risky and rare. Most severe episodes require professional treatment because intense chemical imbalances and deep despair make it nearly impossible to use self-care or regular coping tools alone.

This is pure baloney and it represents the propaganda spread by a sick mental health industry.

For thousands of years, humans have been recovering from temporary mental health challenges without modern drugs.

I am not speaking of psychosis, or psychotic episodes, which do require intervention, of various forms.

Please just show the evidence to support your claims, based on the Scientific Method, and on controlled trials.

Otherwise, your claims hold zero weight.

On 8/4/2026 at 1:44 PM, GammaGlobulin said:

One could make the exact same argument for suggesting the use of Chinese medicine, and millions of people do.

Next, one supposes, you might want to extol the use of acupuncture?

But, before you do this: Please brush up on how to design a properly controlled trial...IF....you might wish to prove your point.

What’s wrong with Chinese medicine - TCM?

59 minutes ago, Hummin said:

That is far too absolute. There is evidence that lithium prevents relapse in bipolar disorder over the long term, just as there is evidence that antipsychotics can prevent relapse in schizophrenia.

I grant you this might be partially true.

I believe we need better trials, and we must re-evaluate all evidence.

Lithium was once, many years ago, thought to be a sure cure, or was seen so by the popular media.

Schizophrenia is a real illness that has no cure.

There is one good book, a book I read in the 1970s, about a physicians journey through the madness of schizophrenia.

Great book for those interested.

I forget the title; it was a long time ago.

12 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Yes but why did he get on them in the first place?

Not sure you can blame the drugs 100%.

He probably was not happy with his life ... or whatever. There are unresolved psychological issues there somewhere.

He began consuming psychiatric drugs, obviously, the way most people do.

They were prescribed by doctors.

They should not have been prescribed.

Which is the point of this Topic.

7 minutes ago, Globalres said:

What’s wrong with Chinese medicine - TCM?

There is nothing wrong with it as long as you are not consuming it for any purpose.

For some reason, western and eastern medicine are not interested in doing controlled trials or the Scientific Method.

Trials cost a lot of money.

IF the drug companies cannot patent their ghastly creations, then they will not go to the trouble of doing the trials, and recouping their investment.

Probably, there are many natural substances which could be tested for efficacy....if someone were willing to spend the time and money, without expecting an ROI, after having the results patented.

2 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

There is nothing wrong with it as long as you are not consuming it for any purpose.

For some reason, western and eastern medicine are not interested in doing controlled trials or the Scientific Method.

Trials cost a lot of money.

IF the drug companies cannot patent their ghastly creations, then they will not go to the trouble of doing the trials, and recouping their investment.

Probably, there are many natural substances which could be tested for efficacy....if someone were willing to spend the time and money, without expecting an ROI, after having the results patented.

Chinese medicine in general is often more about the attention each patient gets. Someone touches you, listens to you, takes you seriously, helps form your thoughts around the belief that there is a solution, even if it takes time, and teaches you along the way to take better care of yourself. Acupuncture involves a lot of touching, some pain, pressure point relief and also stress relief, which I believe is one of the worst enemies of the human mind and body when it becomes chronic.

It is a whole package, not just in and out of a sterile office for 15 to 30 minutes after waiting two hours past your appointment. Obs, sarcasm.

Edited 6 minutes ago6 min by Hummin

12 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

They should not have been prescribed.

Which is the point of this Topic.

Which is an over-simplification that no drugs should ever be prescribed.

Ever heard of schizophrenia? Got a better solution than meds for it?