13 hours ago, simon43 said:

Depends on whether you believe in further lives, as do Buddhists. I've warned people never to squash caterpillars etc, in case it's me in my next life....

I'd be thanking them for squashing me as soon as they saw me, because that way I'd be working my way back up the ladder faster.

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I fail to see any difference between Christian religious education, and the madrassas of Islam. Both are exercises in brainwashing children into believing in an entity for which there is no evidence. To me, it is child abuse.

Important difference would be that Christians allow their women to vote, go to college, etc. - as long as they are good, subservient little girls and obey their husbands.

And HELL yes it's child abuse!

Edited Thursday at 04:40 AM4 days by HappyExpat57

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I fail to see any difference between Christian religious education, and the madrassas of Islam. Both are exercises in brainwashing children into believing in an entity for which there is no evidence. To me, it is child abuse.

It is!

If you believe that teaching about God in public schools will improve people's morality...

...you first need to explain why it doesn't work in church.

Easy peasy to be remember for something good: Just make an awful lot of money and put them into a foundation carrying your name, annually handing out funds for various good courses — Alfred Nobel for example. He created and made stuff for war — and his companies still does — but is remembered for science and especially peace...😉🫣

How will people remember you?

Hopefully few people will remember me. I plan to leave like dust in the wind. I could care less about "Legacy." Those close to me will remember me as a Buddhist expat living out his life in Thailand. Little more.............

As one of my Buddhist teachers said, "Your past lives are measured in mountains of bones."
“Mendicants, one individual roaming and transmigrating for an eon would amass a heap of bones the size of this Mount Vepulla, if they were gathered together and not lost.”
Aṭṭhipuñjasutta (“A Heap of Bones,” Itivuttaka 24 / Iti 24)

Think about that and then contemplate the desire for "Legacy." Most today who wish for "Legacy" won't survive the aftermath of the global thermonuclear war that they set into motion.

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

You have your reasons why you don't believe in God, and most of the world has their reasons why we do. Teaching your child the most important thing in their life isn't child abuse. If they're taught that God exists, they might live their lives following God's commandments, which are obviously good rules, and they will go to heaven.

If there isn't a God, they won't be hurt in any way and will have lived their lives as decent people, hopefully, and will just die and go nowhere.

Child abuse is neglecting, abusing or both. Everyone goes into adulthood and has free will to choose their beliefs, even if they were taught about any gods.

Terrifying children into believing they will burn in Hell if they are bad is child abuse. Teaching them to honor a parent who is a drug addict or violent alcoholic is unsane.

There is zero evidence children and adults need religions to arrive at their individual moral codes. On that subject, the Catholic Church ordered bishops to celebrate Adolf Hitler's birthday up until 1945.

Religions developed among primitive tribes as a means of explaining phenomena they did not understand. Nowadays, we know diseases are not a god's punishment for sin, but infection by bacteria and viruses. Why would a god pick a mechanism so random it punishes the guilty and innocent ?

Religion is man-made. Take a look at the doctrine of papal infallibility. For centuries, popes have taught parents their unbaptized children go to a mythical place called Limbo. The current pope has declared Limbo does not exist. Either he is infallible, and all his predecessors are not - Catholics can't have it both ways.

Scientists are much higher than the general population in terms of atheists and agnostics. The reason is simple: they want evidence fo a god and an afterlife, and there is none - only belief or faith.

17 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Only immediate family and possibly very close friends matter.

Everyone else, it doesn't matter. Everyone's perception of you is different. And people's perceptions are often warped. And you don't care what people think.

Unless you were famous and left a legacy behind for the masses ... most of us haven't.

Fun fact: many people will remember Trump as a pedo / grifter / failed casino owner. Even if the GDP goes up 40% while he's in power.

A lot of people hate me. I don't even know why. Lol !!

Why do you think a lot of people hate you? Such thoughts are mostly something we build up in our own heads. Most people are too busy with their own lives to spend much time hating someone else. And those you think really do carry hate against you are often more troubled by it than you are.

If I am remembered the way my grandfather is remembered, even though I never got to meet him, then I have accomplished something in life.

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Terrifying children into believing they will burn in Hell if they are bad is child abuse. Teaching them to honor a parent who is a drug addict or violent alcoholic is unsane.

There is zero evidence children and adults need religions to arrive at their individual moral codes. On that subject, the Catholic Church ordered bishops to celebrate Adolf Hitler's birthday up until 1945.

Religions developed among primitive tribes as a means of explaining phenomena they did not understand. Nowadays, we know diseases are not a god's punishment for sin, but infection by bacteria and viruses. Why would a god pick a mechanism so random it punishes the guilty and innocent ?

Religion is man-made. Take a look at the doctrine of papal infallibility. For centuries, popes have taught parents their unbaptized children go to a mythical place called Limbo. The current pope has declared Limbo does not exist. Either he is infallible, and all his predecessors are not - Catholics can't have it both ways.

Scientists are much higher than the general population in terms of atheists and agnostics. The reason is simple: they want evidence fo a god and an afterlife, and there is none - only belief or faith.

You don't terrify them. I was raised Catholic and in a Catholic school for 8 years, and was never terrified. I heard the consequences of turning your back on God, and i decided heaven was a place I wanted to be anyway, as looking at all the beautiful things God created for a temporary stay here, I can imagine how good it will be without pain, worries or any diseases forever.

The Catholic religion has some problems also, as they're just people also, which is why I'm just a Christian. The Pope is a man, just like Buddha, but Jesus was the son of God.

You always respect your parents, even if they do stupid things. That doesn't mean you have to emulate those bad things but make better choices for yourself.

God made an imperfect world, putting things here that are harmful as a teaching thing, so we can learn how to help others. We aren't supposed to live any longer than 110 years or so anyway, which doesn't compare to forever without those problems earth has. If the earth was perfect, we wouldn't need God. Since he made everything, it's his choice to make the rules.

You don't need a religion to do anything, but just a belief in God, and Jesus as your savior.

Religions are man made. God isn't.

Many scientists believe in God. Some want to try and explain the universe without a creator.

Edited Thursday at 07:06 AM4 days by fredwiggy

20 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Why do you think a lot of people hate you? Such thoughts are mostly something we build up in our own heads. Most people are too busy with their own lives to spend much time hating someone else. And those you think really do carry hate against you are often more troubled by it than you are.

True. It's often said the people you think hate you don't even have you on their mind but a fraction of the time. Other people have their own set of problems they think about daily. They aren't worth wasting your own thinking on.

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

We aren't supposed to live any longer than 110 years or so anyway, which doesn't compare to forever without those problems earth has.

Fun fact.

The oldest man recorded in the Bible was Methuselah, who lived to be 969 years old.

So humans must have done something to piss God off and then God decided to reduce our lifespan.

5 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Fun fact.

The oldest man recorded in the Bible was Methuselah, who lived to be 969 years old.

So humans must have done something to piss God off and then God decided to reduce our lifespan.

They supposedly lived long back then to populate the world. Pretty good if Methuselah was 800 and didn't need Viagra.

10 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

They supposedly lived long back then to populate the world. Pretty good if Methuselah was 800 and didn't need Viagra.

Fred, I hope you are joking now. Nothing has changed genetically in humans over the last 6,000 years that would explain people supposedly living for hundreds of years in biblical times. Those ages belong to storytelling, not biological evidence.

10 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Fred, I hope you are joking now. Nothing has changed genetically in humans over the last 6,000 years that would explain people supposedly living for hundreds of years in biblical times. Those ages belong to storytelling, not biological evidence.

It's just what's been written. There isn't any evidence to the contrary as far as archaeology.

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

You don't terrify them. I was raised Catholic and in a Catholic school for 8 years, and was never terrified. I heard the consequences of turning your back on God, and i decided heaven was a place I wanted to be anyway, as looking at all the beautiful things God created for a temporary stay here, I can imagine how good it will be without pain, worries or any diseases forever.

The Catholic religion has some problems also, as they're just people also, which is why I'm just a Christian. The Pope is a man, just like Buddha, but Jesus was the son of God.

You always respect your parents, even if they do stupid things. That doesn't mean you have to emulate those bad things but make better choices for yourself.

God made an imperfect world, putting things here that are harmful as a teaching thing, so we can learn how to help others. We aren't supposed to live any longer than 110 years or so anyway, which doesn't compare to forever without those problems earth has. If the earth was perfect, we wouldn't need God. Since he made everything, it's his choice to make the rules.

You don't need a religion to do anything, but just a belief in God, and Jesus as your savior.

Religions are man made. God isn't.

Many scientists believe in God. Some want to try and explain the universe without a creator.

The afterlife is a strong selling point for religions of all stripes.

I have had cystoscopies multiple times, under general anesthesia . My experience is always the same. I am in the operating room. My senses get totally disconnected , then I wake up in the recovery room. It is temporary death.

Now suppose the anesthetist makes a mistake, and sends me on my way permanently. I am supposed to wake up singing in a choir, or roasting in hell? That's a leap in logic wider than the Grand Canyon.

Religion is not a force for good. It is utterly evil, as your own faith has repeatedly demonstrated. Islam presents a strong argument as well.

Celibacy in priests is not a measure of sanctity, It was developed by the church to protect church property from inheritance and paternity claims. Any psychologist will tell you enforced suppression of natural human sexuality will develop perversions. It is statistically inevitable, as evidenced by the increased levels of pedophilia in priests.

Your assertion many scientists are believers is wrong. 50% of scientists are either agnostic or atheist. Among elite scientists, it is 80%. Both statistics are well above atheism/agnostic levels in the general population.

Please post your evidence the virgin birth and purgatory even existed. While you are about it, explain the logic of original sin, which is unique to Christianity.

Your belief is no better than that of a MAGA follower, in that you both lack evidence for your claims.

Edited Thursday at 08:43 AM4 days by Lacessit

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

It's just what's been written. There isn't any evidence to the contrary as far as archaeology.

Fred, claiming to read and understand psychology, you are often the last one to see when you are wrong. You could use a little more of all the information you have gained through the years. Sorry to say, but you need to practice what you teach.

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Fred, claiming to read and understand psychology, you are often the last one to see when you are wrong. You could use a little more of all the information you have gained through the years. Sorry to say, but you need to practice what you teach.

Where have I been wrong? I go by facts and not opinions. All I said is that it was written. i didn't say I agree with things that are written without evidence. Often ? If you only knew. I don't claim anything unless it's verified and I have never lied or exaggerated here.

Edited Thursday at 08:48 AM4 days by fredwiggy

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Where have I been wrong? I go by facts and not opinions. All I said is that it was written. i didn't say I agree with things that are written without evidence. Often ? If you only knew. I don't claim anything unless it's verified and I have never lied or exaggerated here.

Fred, if all you meant was that it was written, fair enough. But saying there is no archaeological evidence to the contrary still does not make it evidence. The claim needs proof, not the other way around. And saying you only go by facts and have never exaggerated is exactly why I mentioned psychology. None of us are that immune to our own bias.

9 hours ago, simon43 said:

Who the f are Donnie and Bennie?

Donnie Osmond and Benny Hill, I suppose.

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Millions of people go without sex for many years, and they don't become perveted. The afterlife is a strong selling point for religions of all stripes.

I have had cystoscopies multiple times, under general anesthesia . My experience is always the same. I am in the operating room. My senses get totally disconnected , then I wake up in the recovery room. It is temporary death.

Now suppose the anesthetist makes a mistake, and sends me on my way permanently. I am supposed to wake up singing in a choir, or roasting in hell? That's a leap in logic wider than the Grand Canyon.

Religion is not a force for good. It is utterly evil, as your own faith has repeatedly demonstrated. Islam presents a strong argument as well.

Celibacy in priests is not a measure of sanctity, It was developed by the church to protect church property from inheritance and paternity claims. Any psychologist will tell you enforced suppression of natural human sexuality will develop perversions. It is statistically inevitable, as evidenced by the increased levels of pedophilia in priests.

Your assertion many scientists are believers is wrong. 50% of scientists are either agnostic or atheist. Among elite scientists, it is 80%. Both statistics are well above atheism/agnostic levels in the general population.

Please post your evidence the virgin birth and purgatory even existed. While you are about it, explain the logic of original sin, which is unique to Christianity.

Your belief is no better than that of a MAGA follower, in that you both lack evidence for your claims.

You believe what you believe for your own reasons, and we as believers do the same. You can't disprove God and what we go by is seeing the evidence of life as being a plan from creation.

Religion is a tool like any other, and those tools can be used in the wrong ways. It isn't the philosophy but certain people who twist things around.

Millions of people go many years without sex and it doesn't turn them into perverts.It's always an individual thing and a choice if people go wrong.

Around 35% of scientists believe in God, and more believe in a spiritual entity. 80% of people worldwide are believers.

The ratio of pedo priests is the same as any other male dominated profession. From AI........ Research indicates that the rate of sexual abuse among Catholic priests is roughly comparable to that of other male-dominated professions and environments, such as public school teachers or youth organizations. The high visibility and systemic crisis within the church stem from institutional structures, secrecy, and cultural dynamics rather than a uniquely higher rate of psychological disorders among clergy.

My belief is my belief, mirrored by the majority worldwide. You're in the minority, and as I've said before, will find out when you pass. I have no need to prove my God to anyone. He will do that himself.

Edited Thursday at 09:06 AM4 days by fredwiggy

9 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Fred, if all you meant was that it was written, fair enough. But saying there is no archaeological evidence to the contrary still does not make it evidence. The claim needs proof, not the other way around. And saying you only go by facts and have never exaggerated is exactly why I mentioned psychology. None of us are that immune to our own bias.

True, as I see life through my experiences and that of what I've read, which are the experiences of millions of others, transcribed by many psychiatrists, psychologists and counselors who interviewed those people.

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

True, as I see life through my experiences and that of what I've read, which are the experiences of millions of others, transcribed by many psychiatrists, psychologists and counselors who interviewed those people.

It is not solely what you experience or read, Fred. It is how you perceive it, digest it, how you actually practice what you have learned, and how you communicate it depending on who is receiving it

28 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I am supposed to wake up singing in a choir, or roasting in hell?

Maybe neither / nor.

But .... it doesn't mean there's "nothing" either.

What if ... you are forced to review your life in the after-life?

Just now, Hummin said:

It is not solely what you experience or read, Fred. It is how you perceive it, digest it, how you actually practice what you have learned, and how you communicate it depending on who is receiving it

When I quote something, it is from personal experience, which is factual, and what other's in the profession have said, in all of their writings. People do have their own bias, but that doesn't mean what they see is wrong. If you look outside your own thinking you can see the truth. I don't just believe one who writes but when the majority says the same things, and are proven by studies. that's what I go by. Seeing no one here really knows anyone personally unless they've met, and been around them a long time, no one can judge how others live their lives.

Edited Thursday at 09:20 AM4 days by fredwiggy

12 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

You believe what you believe for your own reasons, and we as believers do the same. You can't disprove God and what we go by is seeing the evidence of life as being a plan from creation.

Religion is a tool like any other, and those tools can be used in the wrong ways. It isn't the philosophy but certain people who twist things around.

Millions of people go many years without sex and it doesn't turn them into perverts.It's always an individual thing and a choice if people go wrong.

Around 35% of scientists believe in God, and more believe in a spiritual entity. 80% of people worldwide are believers.

The ratio of pedo priests is the same as any other male dominated profession. From AI........ Research indicates that the rate of sexual abuse among Catholic priests is roughly comparable to that of other male-dominated professions and environments, such as public school teachers or youth organizations. The high visibility and systemic crisis within the church stem from institutional structures, secrecy, and cultural dynamics rather than a uniquely higher rate of psychological disorders among clergy.

My belief is my belief, mirrored by the majority worldwide. You're in the minority, and as I've said before, will find out when you pass. I have no need to prove my God to anyone. He will do that himself.

In your response, you have completely ignored my request for evidence of a virgin birth and purgatory. Why am I not surprised?

True, I can't disprove a god. I can't disprove Jupiter or Odin either. All i can say is there is no evidence for any of them.

Your statement about authority figures in male-dominated professions misses the point. They have no pretensions of holiness.

Being in the minority does not make me wrong. A majority of Russians support Putin, does that make them right?

Your faith forbids voluntary euthanasia. When your time comes, will you think it is your god's will you should die in agony, for a higher purpose? Are you really that stupid?

Believe whatever you want to., it just demonstrates a lack of critical thinking skills.

Edited Thursday at 09:33 AM4 days by Lacessit

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

In your response, you have completely ignored my request for evidence of a virgin birth and purgatory. Why am I not surprised?

True, I can't disprove a god. I can't disprove Jupiter or Odin either. All i can say is there is no evidence for any of them.

Being in the minority does not make me wrong. A majority of Russians support Putin, does that make them right?

Your faith forbids voluntary euthanasia. When your time comes, will you think it is your god's will you should die in agony, for a higher purpose? Are you really that stupid?

Believe whatever you want to., it just demonstrates a lack of critical thinking skills.

No, I didn't ignore it. I don't need to prove that to you or anyone else either. Like I mentioned, and you possibly missed. You have your beliefs, and I have mine. If you've looked around all your years on earth, you have seen the evidence. Anyone that thinks everything on earth and what it constitutes came from a big bang that wasn't God's plan is fooling themselves.

Some do have very closed minds, thinking all of earth's species, how it relates to the sun, and has everything to sustain life, is all the evidence one needs to believe in a creation, and not something that happened from nothing. If there was a speck of matter in the universe, how did it get there? When it's my time to go, I'll go the way I'm supposed to, as life is precious and I would never shorten it by myself.

Well, 80% of the world's people must be stupid, or more likely, it's the minority, many of whom just hate God because they lost someone to some crappy disease and can't believe a God could do such a thing. Believe what you want, as it's more evidence of your limited thinking skills and belief in other's opinions. You have no idea who you talk to here, and your words here show that daily. Are YOU really that stupid? Try that superiority attitude with someone else here. It doesn't work with me.

Edited Thursday at 09:52 AM4 days by fredwiggy

24 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

When I quote something, it is from personal experience, which is factual, and what other's in the profession have said, in all of their writings. People do have their own bias, but that doesn't mean what they see is wrong. If you look outside your own thinking you can see the truth. I don't just believe one who writes but when the majority says the same things, and are proven by studies. that's what I go by. Seeing no one here really knows anyone personally unless they've met, and been around them a long time, no one can judge how others live their lives.

A personal experience is factual in the sense that it happened to you. But there are many ways to learn from it and interpret it in your own life. That still does not make your interpretation factual, correct, or true for everyone else.

24 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Maybe neither / nor.

But .... it doesn't mean there's "nothing" either.

What if ... you are forced to review your life in the after-life?

I really can't say how a review from other people would go. I have made friends, and enemies. I can say no one was left wondering where they stood with me.

When the Australian billionaire Kerry Packer went into cardiac arrest, he was clinically dead for several minutes. He was revived with a defibrillator, and said to his son James " Son, I've been to the other side, and there's nothing there."

Just now, Hummin said:

A personal experience is factual in the sense that it happened to you. But there are many ways to learn from it and interpret it in your own life. That still does not make your interpretation factual, correct, or true for everyone else.

If I see the sun rise, it's my personal experience, and is factual. That's what I mean by that statement. If a hundred people see the same thing I do, that makes it factual and not my interpretation of the event. If a woman hits you like the one Cam said hit him, and a hundred people see it happening, it's a fact. If he said it happened and no one saw it happen, it's his experience and a fact, although some might not believe him for their own narratives. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. Things are facts or they aren't. Opinions are opinions, and they might be factual or not. People lie and exaggerate when things happen, but some tell things exactly how they are.

Edited Thursday at 09:51 AM4 days by fredwiggy