Did You Ever Make Some Thai Lose Face?

[lifeisrandom]

the only times i can remember making a Thai lose face were various times that Thai girls decided we were soul mates and ready for marriage over a cup of coffee phone conversation or subway ride

39 missed messages

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[Dakhar]

I rarely do, because I fear other humans. The only case I can recall is of causing a freelance prostitute some embarrassment when I was new in Thailand - she did end up ripping my shirt and knocking me to the ground! What had happened was that she was angry because I had only given her a token payment after she failed to provide services agreed upon, and she ran off with my hotel room key. There was a 500 baht fine for losing it (and the electric-on fob), so I went after her with the bellboy, and confronted her. This public confrontation and the 'loss of face' in front of her fellow sex-workers led to my abrasions (of course I just 'took it').

Anyway, I learned my lesson - always short time, never in one's own hotel or home, and always cut your losses. Losing a few hundred baht is better than trouble.

Overall however I can totally relate to the Thai or more generally Asian concept of 'loss of face' - I think it more accurately reflects how human hierarchies work. Westerners deceive themselves that said hierarchies are based on performance/ability/merit, but Asians know better - its all based on power/fear/respect.

What had happened was that she was angry because I had only given her a token payment after she failed to provide services agreed upon,

So she refused to wear a diaper and call you Daddy? I tell you, it is hard to get good service now a days.

[Dakhar]

the only times i can remember making a Thai lose face were various times that Thai girls decided we were soul mates and ready for marriage over a cup of coffee phone conversation or subway ride

39 missed messages

= time to get a new sim card

Yea,

I had that happen before. I met a girl on a bus in Taiwan. She sat down beside me, which was pretty bold I guess. I asked her, her name and she said Ray Lin. I told her that was a pretty name and actually an American name, although her name was really Chinese & she had no idea Reighlien was actually an American name. She was interested in learning more English and attending a class.. etc (so she said).

I handed her my name card.... and then the persistant phone calls began.... In class, I just treated her as she was jist one of the regular students and I think she got the picture. She never came back to class or called again. I did not want to hurt her... but really her intentions were not mutual.

Looking back, I probably lost a chance of a life time.

[Flatouthruthefog]

nothing ever happens, they just try to make you feel sorry for them by acting like babies when u do make them lose face..

Maturity isnt strong here.

Agree with your last line, if we think of 'maturity' by western standards, but have to disagree gently with your first statement.

Loss of face to a Thai may result in loss of life (ours!), even if there are no witnesses. And this is irrespective of class, age, income group, anything.

I used to ride a small Honda Dream motorcycle around Chiang Mai and once, about 7.00pm (just dark) arrived at the cross roads at the western (city) end of Nakhon Ping Bridge. The one with well seperated bike tracks along each side.

The traffic lights were all flashing amber (ie 'beware, no right of way'), so I braked and changed down to 2nd gear, which was just as well. A Mercedes shot into the middle of the junction from my left (City Hall direction!) and screeched to a halt, completely blocking the cross roads. Through the slightly dimmed glass i could see the very dim Thai male driver, maybe 30 years of age, giggling into his mobile phone and looking around as if he were lost.

I raised my visor, smiled down into his window (2 meters away, max) and said quite loudly "Wanee, n'cap?" (ie "Today, please?"). What milder rebuke for dangerous, selfish, incompetence could one imagine?

He glared at me, swung the wheel to the left and screeched off across the bridge in the direction I was heading. Having found such morons in 33 countries on 4 continents, I accelerated up the ramp to the left onto the cycle path.

Some unuspecting Thai biker following behind me filled my place just behind the Merc and was extremely lucky not to hit the deck when the Merc moron jammed his brakes on, mid-bridge, thinking that it was me and doubtless intending that I would become a decal on his rear deck.

As it was I was able to overtake him along the bike lane and raced away with my longest right finger waving at his windscreen.

"You were lucky he didn't have a gun" said my wiser friends, afterwards.

[Marvo]

What I can't understand is the frequency with which people here, who fear "loss of face", leave themselves wide open. In a culture where humiliation by loss of face takes on such gargantuan proportions, how can they freakin' fail to learn how to avoid it?

[JohnBanPrang]

Lost my face at the swimming pool.

Forgot my trunks.

At the tender age of 33.

[Dakhar]

Lost my face at the swimming pool.

Forgot my trunks.

At the tender age of 33.

I ruined a marriage that same way too.

[jimjam23]

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[JohnBanPrang]

Hey anyone else notice the google ad words at the top of this thread?

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Winner of Grazia Magazine's 'Best Anti-Ageing Gadget of 2008' Award!

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Afraid of loosing face or what???

JJ cool it!!

[klikster]

Have done quite a bit (sometimes just for grins) in terms of making locals and foreigners lose face, and believe me just about everyone gets pissed off or at least suffers wounds to the ego, no matter what their cultural background.

There is a hybrid strain of "California Disease" .. "Texas Disease".

[Heng]

Have done quite a bit (sometimes just for grins) in terms of making locals and foreigners lose face, and believe me just about everyone gets pissed off or at least suffers wounds to the ego, no matter what their cultural background.

There is a hybrid strain of "California Disease" .. "Texas Disease".

Nah, it's usually their own fault. Collecting debts (or rent) in public in front of their peers at a local bar after they've been avoiding our phone calls, taking their Fortuner or Vigo they have in hock to me to the local Tesco Lotus to make sure it still drives and then running into their family (and them having to explain to their kids why they can't get in the car to drive home)... stuff like that.

[opebo]

What had happened was that she was angry because I had only given her a token payment after she failed to provide services agreed upon,

So she refused to wear a diaper and call you Daddy? I tell you, it is hard to get good service now a days.

No no, nothing weird - just the 'Third Way', if you know what I mean.

[Andrew Hicks]

East or West, face is the same, in my experience. Only the individuals are different. Feelings are the same.

I'm not so sure about this Ajarn. I think Farangs tend to 'shrug off' a mistake or a 'difference of opinion,' but a Thai will often let their emotions take over. Often times this emotion leads to irrational behavior that could have been avoided with

a simple exchange of ideas. Often hired help just disappears because they did something silly that is inconsequential to the employer, and the employer lets them know there is no harm done. The next day the worker is gone; unable to face the employer. The last thing the employer wanted was the employee to leave.

Oh well.

Interesting!

My observation while my house in Surin was being built and at other times is that Thai workers don't like to be told what to do at all... and that includes builders doing difficult work who are just rice farmers working in the dry season.

There seems to be no foreman and nobody to plan things and they all just get to work by some sort of unspoken consensus. This has its advantages in a cohesive team but also disadvantages in repeated cock ups and inefficiencies.

As for me, even though I was paying the piper, trying to call the tune... forget it. Serious hurt could be caused by opening my mouth.

I kept it shut, but I did include a chapter about it in a book I wrote about living in Isaan.