Climbing Out Of Poverty? (say, Starting From A Slum Or The Paddy Field)

[roietjimmy]

I still don't see anything substantial enough being pointed out.

People are saying to stop this "Alcohol, tabacco, lottery tickets, soda pop, junk food, gambling are just a few.". My sister in law doesn't do any of these.

People keep saying to learn something.

LEARN WHAT?

Please don't just dream like there are plenty to do!

My post certainly wasn't saying your sister in law was wasting her money on any of these things. My point is if anyone wants to make more money then they have to make some sacrifices and save some money. We all know it takes some money to make money even if you want to start the smallest of businesses.

You ask "learn what?". As I said, find someone you respect and is successful. Some would call it a role model. It could be anyone (even you) no matter what business they do. It is not important to learn exactly how they might cook their noodles, boil their eggs or what ever. The important thing to learn is how they conduct themselves then make the changes in your life to act more like them.

Having read many of your posts and responses, I can see you are "successful". In order to reach that success, you made the effort to change your way of life, made sacrfices, learned what you needed, dedicated yourself to your job/business, made smart decisions and made the best of opportunities you were given. In the end you did the things necessary to become successful. Until people are willing to make the sacrifices you and many others have nothing will change.

I might add, I also have a few "in laws" that are in need of some specific advice. Maybe you can help because I sure as heck can't seem to get them to change!!

[roietjimmy]

Poverty like beauty is a defined in the eye of the beholder.

Is that right?

Here is the "eye of the beholder":

Nice pictures. Too bad none of them have anything to do with Thailand. Looks like Bangladesh. Been there many times distributing "cake".

[think_too_mut]

Poverty like beauty is a defined in the eye of the beholder.

Is that right?

Here is the "eye of the beholder":

Nice pictures. Too bad none of them have anything to do with Thailand. Looks like Bangladesh. Been there many times distributing "cake".

India.

Tell us more how the people deemed poor "by the eye of the beholder" can get out of it.

Remember the pics before you sink back into your utopia.

[Ricardo]

Things to avoid :-

1) Wasting your life watching TV-soaps & game-shows.

2) Smoking or drinking, until you are rich enough, to afford them.

3) Marrying too young - hormones keep poor people in poverty !

4) Believing everything said by poo-yais or government.

5) Buying lottery-tickets, too unsure a way to riches, and it reduces your savings.

Any other suggestions ?

6)avoid getting wet while jumping into the sea

7)avoid having an erection while seeing a sexy naked woman

8)avoid getting hit by a car standing in the middle of Asoke/Sukhumvit

9)avoid blinking if a fly flies into your eyes

Anything else?

Meemiathai, I actually meant these points to be taken seriously, as they all contribute to saving & hanging-onto that essential first 'grub-steak'.

Can't you come up with some serious examples of behaviour which supports saving or learning ?

It is very easy to 'take the piss' out of the poor, but I'm sure someone as intelligent as yourself can overcome the temptation, if you were to try.

[jts-khorat]

I pretty much did not post here, because as the OP states, the previous thread with the same theme stalled, maybe more because of personal differences than of differences in opinion. But as the same people who talked the old post to death post here without shame just repeating the old arguments again, why not I as well? At least I think my arguments valid and actually I am both sober and think before I post, a most difficult hurdle as proven in the last thread by its participants.

I guess this thread is not about getting rich...it is about getting out of poverty. To do this you need skills. Learn something....pay attention to what is going on. Don't drink or smoke. Start a bank account and put your money there so you are not tempted to spend it for stupid things....alot of poor people get money from time to time (a temporary job) but end up spending the money foolishly. Always be well groomed...even old clothes can be kept clean. Again, learn something about some kind of work....get an education...or if you think you've got an education already then get some other kind of education...one that will help you get a better job.

Also, poverty is not the end of the world....it often just means that you need to be more creative about how to entertain yourself.....poverty is to a great extent a state of mind.

But it is not simply not true that Thai farmers have no choice. Going from basically nothing to just a little bit is really not that big a step, even in Thailand, even in Isaan. It takes a lot of effort and determination. And squandering years of effort away can be done in a mere moment.

...

I know Thai people who are extremely proud to have made their way with their own hands, from absolutely nothing, never taking a single Satang. Fun is not a word very much in this equation and the step from poor to rich is a large one even with all the determination. But this is not what we are discussing here, we discussing really if the poorest of the Isaan farmers are that poor by fate or -- really, in the end -- by choosing the lifestyle they are living.

I would say, many are choosing (not consciously maybe) the lifestyle by the decisions they make.

Funny

Exactly the same argumentation as the one from chownah got a post of mine voted for by Maigo6 as the most idiotic on TV in 4 years, strongly seconded by Neeranam -- who does not seem so much in disagreement here.

Neeranam, you are nothing but a talker with no substance and reading through your last posts also in other threads, you have the most amazing contradictory opinions. Maybe your moral compass really follows the direction of the wind. And Maigo6 proudly proclaims to post regularly when drunk -- and so fuzzy are is opinions as well, just putting it really politely.

Meemiathai, we have already found out that asking for an opinion and then discarding every single one as not fitting your comfort zone level does not help; neither your family, nor this forum, even if you post your outcries in red and 64point font.

Why don't we four simply shut up for a while and let some others post here, maybe there comes a different perspective out of it?

Edited September 15, 2007 by jts-khorat

[WaiWai]

I thought wasabi made a strong point. Support of family, and especially parents, is truly a millstone for many. It seems the daughters are primarily expected to carry this burden.

More than one young Thai has asked me if parents in "the West" see their children as "money-making machines". (not unique to Thailand, but prevalent here).

More positively :

I think that for an unskilled person, a small business is the way to start. Sell noodles, work hard, be there reliably, have the best noodles & best service in the area, take small initiatives to make your service special ... you can edge ahead.

The unskilled people who are doing well seem to have several small-scale money-making enterprises running simulanteously.

It takes a little determination and imagination. Some Thais seem worn down by their perception of their "lot in life"; understandably.

Oh, and those of us with "a little more" could learn to live more simply, don't you think ? The global machine is so unbalanced.

Edited September 15, 2007 by WaiWai

[roietjimmy]

Poverty like beauty is a defined in the eye of the beholder. If a person is contented with their material wealth, as Peter991 points out, they will not have any incentive to gain more. On the other hand, a person who is discontented with their material wealth, no matter how much they have, may consider themselves poor and conclude "there must be a better way".

The bottom line here is to what degree one is dedicated to making the changes in their life to achieve their goals.

Yet another dreamer.

Poverty is a statistical thing, there must be one and it defines what being poor means.

Bono (of U2 rock band) propagates that each cow in EU zone is subsidized 2 US$ a day and uses it in his campaigns to better the African continent.

Half of the planet's population have never made a phone call.

As for "goals to achieve" - it's as simple as this: most of the poor want their cake. Not to learn the recipe to bake it whenever and wherever they want.

Wow another original response. An exact cut and paste of ones you've used before!! Your response as usual contain irrelevant nonsense having nothing much to do with the OP. Maybe just once you could take the time to read a post in total rather than pulling quotes out of context so you can make your cynical remarks. Even better yet why not give us your ideas on the OP "Climbing out of poverty?"

[chownah]

"..........

People keep saying to learn something.

LEARN WHAT?

Please don't just dream like there are plenty to do!

Learn how to measure and cut wood. Learn how to raise some crop other than rice. Learn how to lay tiles. Learn how to do whatever is going on around you where people make more money than you do. Learn how to fish. Learn how to do percentages and fractions. Learn how to keep books. Learn how to tune a car.

Man....you must have very little imagination to think that there is nothing to learn in life that can financially benefit someone. Usually the difference between someone who makes more and someone who makes less is knowledge of some sort or another.

Edited September 15, 2007 by chownah

[roietjimmy]

Poverty like beauty is a defined in the eye of the beholder.

Is that right?

Here is the "eye of the beholder":

Nice pictures. Too bad none of them have anything to do with Thailand. Looks like Bangladesh. Been there many times distributing "cake".

India.

Tell us more how the people deemed poor "by the eye of the beholder" can get out of it.

Remember the pics before you sink back into your utopia.

First ignore my somewhat strong response to your last comment. My apologies!

I do agree with you there is poverty so deep and severe that the only thing useful is to keep the poor souls from starving so at some point they can get out of their extreme poverty. Maybe, this will help clarify what I intended when using the "eye of the beholder" statement. Instead of saying poverty is in the eye of the beholder let me say being poor or less successful than someone else is relative. For example someone with 2 rai of land and 1 cow might be poorer than one with 3 rai and 2 cows. The same holds true for the number of cars or houses a richer person has compared to with others. Sufficiency means different things to different people.

I apologise for the wordiness of my post but the key point is if a person is not satisfied with what they have, then they have to be dedicated to make changes in the way they think and do things. To get something, you must sacrifice something. Those not willing to change will be destined to remain the same. I am not talking about poor village people becoming millionares but rather becoming more successful (less poor) than they are now.

Edited September 15, 2007 by roietjimmy

[think_too_mut]

Poverty like beauty is a defined in the eye of the beholder. If a person is contented with their material wealth, as Peter991 points out, they will not have any incentive to gain more. On the other hand, a person who is discontented with their material wealth, no matter how much they have, may consider themselves poor and conclude "there must be a better way".

The bottom line here is to what degree one is dedicated to making the changes in their life to achieve their goals.

Yet another dreamer.

Poverty is a statistical thing, there must be one and it defines what being poor means.

Bono (of U2 rock band) propagates that each cow in EU zone is subsidized 2 US$ a day and uses it in his campaigns to better the African continent.

Half of the planet's population have never made a phone call.

As for "goals to achieve" - it's as simple as this: most of the poor want their cake. Not to learn the recipe to bake it whenever and wherever they want.

Wow another original response. An exact cut and paste of ones you've used before!! Your response as usual contain irrelevant nonsense having nothing much to do with the OP. Maybe just once you could take the time to read a post in total rather than pulling quotes out of context so you can make your cynical remarks. Even better yet why not give us your ideas on the OP "Climbing out of poverty?"

I'll resist and not post something that would send for a break. Others, who called u names were right.

[roietjimmy]

I'll resist and not post something that would send for a break. Others, who called u names were right.

I did apologise but do please read the response to your "in the eye of the beholder" question.

[gburns57au]

Education....what a great thing it is....

I know a girl who has a uni degree.....she makes more money running a market stall...and she works hard doing that as well.

Another girl I know was educated in the US and played in the US tennis open many moons ago....she sells jewellery from a stall and is quite successful.

Poverty is a state of mind....those who have the basic minimums in life have a different set of values to those who are more well off.

The only people I have heard complain of a lack of money in Thailand are those who already have an abundance of it.

[WaiWai]

Education....what a great thing it is....

I know a girl who has a uni degree.....she makes more money running a market stall...and she works hard doing that as well.

Another girl I know was educated in the US and played in the US tennis open many moons ago....she sells jewellery from a stall and is quite successful.

Poverty is a state of mind....those who have the basic minimums in life have a different set of values to those who are more well off.

The only people I have heard complain of a lack of money in Thailand are those who already have an abundance of it.

I am not sure what you are suggesting about education.

Do you think that success in life is solely about selling goods in the market with some financial gain ? Is education of no intrinsic value ?

I do see kids here with university education revert to the noodle stall, because they lack the belief in themselves to break through the class barriers.

[meemiathai]

I still don't see anything substantial enough being pointed out.

People are saying to stop this "Alcohol, tabacco, lottery tickets, soda pop, junk food, gambling are just a few.". My sister in law doesn't do any of these.

People keep saying to learn something.

LEARN WHAT?

Please don't just dream like there are plenty to do!

My post certainly wasn't saying your sister in law was wasting her money on any of these things. My point is if anyone wants to make more money then they have to make some sacrifices and save some money. We all know it takes some money to make money even if you want to start the smallest of businesses.

You ask "learn what?". As I said, find someone you respect and is successful. Some would call it a role model. It could be anyone (even you) no matter what business they do. It is not important to learn exactly how they might cook their noodles, boil their eggs or what ever. The important thing to learn is how they conduct themselves then make the changes in your life to act more like them.

Having read many of your posts and responses, I can see you are "successful". In order to reach that success, you made the effort to change your way of life, made sacrfices, learned what you needed, dedicated yourself to your job/business, made smart decisions and made the best of opportunities you were given. In the end you did the things necessary to become successful. Until people are willing to make the sacrifices you and many others have nothing will change.

I might add, I also have a few "in laws" that are in need of some specific advice. Maybe you can help because I sure as heck can't seem to get them to change!!

Sir, please understand my post was not meant to be disrespectful to you.

I would like to point out that if my sister in law had learned to be more like me she would be dead for long time ago. I have never worked hard in my life. I play all the time. I have been lazy all my life. If I had worked as hard as her and been as careful with money as she did, I would have been quite rich already. The only reason that makes me seem more successful than her is the fact that I am in HK, that is I earn much much more than her by just sleeping and playing here.(I am not thai btw, just in case you misunderstood)

And this is exactly why I even posted here. That is I can't stand people saying that those Isaan people are poor cause they are lazy. And they have chosen it and deserve it.

Everyone's background is different. Ability is different. One just can't learn to act like another person. One example I have given is "you can't run faster than Michael Johnson no matter how hard you train yourself".

[meemiathai]

Things to avoid :-

1) Wasting your life watching TV-soaps & game-shows.

2) Smoking or drinking, until you are rich enough, to afford them.

3) Marrying too young - hormones keep poor people in poverty !

4) Believing everything said by poo-yais or government.

5) Buying lottery-tickets, too unsure a way to riches, and it reduces your savings.

Any other suggestions ?

6)avoid getting wet while jumping into the sea

7)avoid having an erection while seeing a sexy naked woman

8)avoid getting hit by a car standing in the middle of Asoke/Sukhumvit

9)avoid blinking if a fly flies into your eyes

Anything else?

Meemiathai, I actually meant these points to be taken seriously, as they all contribute to saving & hanging-onto that essential first 'grub-steak'.

Can't you come up with some serious examples of behaviour which supports saving or learning ?

It is very easy to 'take the piss' out of the poor, but I'm sure someone as intelligent as yourself can overcome the temptation, if you were to try.

You missed my point.

I was just trying to say that it is easy to say to avoid this and that, but in reality a lot of things are unavoidable, no matter how easy they look.

I will never mock poor people, at least not in way that really steps them down.

[gburns57au]

I am not sure what you are suggesting about education.

Do you think that success in life is solely about selling goods in the market with some financial gain ? Is education of no intrinsic value ?

I do see kids here with university education revert to the noodle stall, because they lack the belief in themselves to break through the class barriers.

Education is not the be all and end all...both of these girls are doing what makes them happy and they are both reasonably successful.

Has nothing to do with class barriers....one could well be described as coming from a middle class background and the other is the daughter of a retired Army general.

[WaiWai]

So ... you believe that education has no intrinsic value.

If that is your belief, I am unlikely to change your mind by saying that people deserve every chance to develop themselves in ways other than being money-making machines.

Edited September 15, 2007 by WaiWai

[intumult]

LEARN WHAT?

Let me see.

The family I was associated with recently live in a corrugated tin house that is all but ramshackle now yet the family work hard. The mother is a tiler and gets about 35 Baht a square metre. The father is helping to build a house for the family whilst helping with the tiling and making music and doing other jobs.

Most of the money the parents earn pays for the 19 year old son to go through college where he is learning electronics. To also pay for the daughter to get the best education they can find so she does not turn out to be a buffalo.

This particular family unit have learned that to get themselves and their children out of poverty they must work ###### hard and diversify in order that their offspring will have a better chance in life - much like many of our parents and grandparents struggled to enhance the quality of our lives.

Other members of the family are doing much the same. They are working extremely hard to get their children the best education they can and making sure they have skills to help them move forward in life in the hope that their children and childrens children can move on up the ladder and further out of financial poverty. Some are into mechanics and can strip and rebuild car / motorbike engines, can lay concrete, do bricklaying and other skills. Skills taught by other family members and learned.

Each of the children that I saw and know of were learning practical skills alongside their education and the parents were helping where they could.

Yet even so you could see the rebellion in some of the children - like many teenagers in the West - as they want to spend time on computer games down the internet cafe or not help with the family laundry etc. Maybe the rebellious ones will make it in the future and judging by their parents reactions at learning the children have not been studying hard is anything to go by. Often I have seen mothers verbally laying into these children for being lazy and not working as hard as they should to better themselves but people have to want to raise themselves out of the 'gutter'.

On the other side of the coin there are the parents who spend as much of their time drinking whiskey as possible as soon as they get their hands on a few Baht. Their children stand even less chance if they learn and follow their parents example.

In the West I know of people who have been to university and they are as 'Thick as Pig Sh*t', but their parents have it made already and have money (not in all cases obviously) and these kids lounge about all day whining and whinging about how hard their lives are. I wish some of those could be sent to Thailand to learn about hardship.

We all learn within our capabilities and with our teachers capabilities, be the teachers parents or so called educated people and often we learn from our peers and our surroundings, our own situations.

Oh, I give up.

[meemiathai]

"..........

People keep saying to learn something.

LEARN WHAT?

Please don't just dream like there are plenty to do!

Learn how to measure and cut wood. Learn how to raise some crop other than rice. Learn how to lay tiles. Learn how to do whatever is going on around you where people make more money than you do. Learn how to fish. Learn how to do percentages and fractions. Learn how to keep books. Learn how to tune a car.

Man....you must have very little imagination to think that there is nothing to learn in life that can financially benefit someone. Usually the difference between someone who makes more and someone who makes less is knowledge of some sort or another.

So my sister in law goes to work at 8am and finishes at 10pm, at what time should I suggest her to go and learn to measure and cut wood? where? which crop do you know about that is going to make money? Fishing? Where? When?

"Learn how to do whatever is going on around you where people make more money than you do."

So you condone people treating farangs as walking atms?

[gburns57au]

So ... you believe that education has no intrinsic value.

If that is your belief, I am unlikely to change your mind by saying that people deserve every chance to develop themselves in ways other than being money-making machines.

Where did that come from ???

I never said they were money making machines....they have been educated...they are reasonably successful with their chosen way of life...more importantly...they are happy doing what they are doing.

I didnt say that education has no intrinsic value....just that education is not everything. There are many successful people that have little formal education.

Wealth and education is not the barometer for success...Sometimes there is more to it than that.

[meom]

"Learn how to do whatever is going on around you where people make more money than you do."

So you condone people treating farangs as walking atms?

It take sometimes a lot of persuasion and skill to shake down a farang so I guess street smarts count for something as well in the real world besides formal education.

[blaze]

There is a spirit of fatalism in Thailand- a kind of determinism- that works against personal initiative. This is reinforced through the belief that our current conditions are determined by previous lives. There is also an expectation (not unlike the old 'noblesse oblige' of feudal Europe, that a loving authority will take care of them. In exchange for uncritical loyalty and fealty. This father figure may be a village poo-yai, an important government official or the local cop/mafia/polititian. The essential nature of Thai society is paternalistic.

And then too, there is , as in Christianity- the expectation that things will get a lot better after we die.

Nothing unique about Thailand in this sense- the Christian concept of the nobility of poverty and that the Lord will provide (and when he doesn't- the caveat that He tends to work in somewhat mysterious ways) - the real beneficiaries of this crap being the elites who bolster the traditional religious values of servitude and humility in order to more efficiently exploit/harvest the poor.

And this is all well and good- for those who who might acutally enjoy insects for lunch, rat for supper and sleeping in tin sheds in Bangkok while working as a migrant on construction.

The sad thing is that this culture will be foisted on the little babies in those sheds, shanties and upcountry shacks. It is in the interest of too many powerful players to maintain that culture.

Edited September 15, 2007 by blaze

[macduff]

Poverty like beauty is a defined in the eye of the beholder.

Is that right?

Here is the "eye of the beholder":

At least it's paid for. As the saying goes you'll never miss what you've never had.

[roietjimmy]

Sir, please understand my post was not meant to be disrespectful to you.

I would like to point out that if my sister in law had learned to be more like me she would be dead for long time ago. I have never worked hard in my life. I play all the time. I have been lazy all my life. If I had worked as hard as her and been as careful with money as she did, I would have been quite rich already. The only reason that makes me seem more successful than her is the fact that I am in HK, that is I earn much much more than her by just sleeping and playing here.(I am not thai btw, just in case you misunderstood)

And this is exactly why I even posted here. That is I can't stand people saying that those Isaan people are poor cause they are lazy. And they have chosen it and deserve it.

Everyone's background is different. Ability is different. One just can't learn to act like another person. One example I have given is "you can't run faster than Michael Johnson no matter how hard you train yourself".

I always appreciate your comments and never take them to be disrespectful. You are right all of us come from different backgrounds and environments so some have it easier than others. If you have noticed any of my comments to folks that have said Isaan people are lazy you will see that I just like you can't stand them. Isaan is my home and I am surrounded by hard working responsible people. Your choice to live in HK and just play and sleep is something you chose to do and it has brought you a measure of success. I doubt you are lazy though. Even sleeping and playing can be hard work!

It is difficult to learn to act (behave) like other people especially when we are older. The reason it is difficult is because we have from birth learned to act the way our parents or others around us have acted. We can change if we really have a strong enough need and desire.

BTW, If you ever get the chance to see my wife when I've really upset her, you will see me breaking every record Michael Johnson ever had, without using steroids as he did.

Edited September 15, 2007 by roietjimmy

[WaiWai]

There is a spirit of fatalism in Thailand- a kind of determinism- that works against personal initiative. This is reinforced through the belief that our current conditions are determined by previous lives. There is also an expectation (not unlike the old 'noblesse oblige' of feudal Europe, that a loving authority will take care of them. In exchange for uncritical loyalty and fealty. This father figure may be a village poo-yai, an important government official or the local cop/mafia/polititian. The essential nature of Thai society is paternalistic.

Spot on !

I challenge all to think of a comparable contemporary society (examples from the past are easy).

[Jersey_UK]

OP here........

I was in 2 minds whether to start the thread, but I am glad I did - some very useful contributions. (amongst the "usual" )

Clearly some do not understand the value of everything mentioned - but like money, education is not always fairly distributed

FWIW, although I believe that a University Degree in Thailand is very worthwhile to be in possesion of when it comes to later obtaining a stable job, nay an actual career or profession, I do appreciate that this is not an opportunity open to all for various reasons.........but fortunately "Education" is far far more than achieving pieces of paper (which do have their place).....but by teaching an ability to learn and think for oneself, to raise one's horizons and to recognise opportunity and then translate this into practical action. (which is I think where some want to jump straight into - somethings same same Farangland "I want now", with no "bit" in the middle involving both thinking and a large dollop of hard work).

Edited September 15, 2007 by Jersey_UK

[Ricardo]

You missed my point.

I was just trying to say that it is easy to say to avoid this and that, but in reality a lot of things are unavoidable, no matter how easy they look.

I agree that the things I was suggesting are hard, but I can't agree that they are unavoidable, it just takes a lot of determination to bypass the luxuries of life, until you can afford them.

For example when I was studying, I would get up at 6am, and do a couple of hours book-work before I cycled off to the factory. I was therefore already tired, by evening-time, which made not-going-to-the-pub easier. And when my holidays came, I spent the money I'd saved from beer, on short-but-intensive study-courses, preparing for the next of several sets of exams.

After 5 years of this, as my skills and salary went up, I could start to enjoy the benefits, a very old car and cheap holidays and a 90% mortgage on my first house.

Eventually I landed a well-paid job overseas, in one of the least-pleasant countries in the Middle-East, and began to save serious capital, which I saved to start my own business several more years later.

Success rarely comes easily. It takes years of grinding hard-work. And carries the risk that you may still not achieve wealth, unless you make your business succeed, where again hard work and clear thinking and self-denial are often needed.

I have now benefitted, retiring at 50, and my kids are also benefitting, through a better education and start in life, but I too don't look down on the poor, as I remember when I was one of them, which can still return again if the global-economy collapes. I wish them every success, in raising themselves out of poverty, but I can't say that it will be quick or easy.

I suspect that many poorer people look at the rich, and see only the good life-style which now rewards them, but not the effort and risk-taking and self-denial which got them there. Obviously I exclude those who made their money from corruption, or selling influence & government-contracts, which I deplore as an insult to the poor. But let's not mention Dr T.

[chownah]

"..........

People keep saying to learn something.

LEARN WHAT?

Please don't just dream like there are plenty to do!

Learn how to measure and cut wood. Learn how to raise some crop other than rice. Learn how to lay tiles. Learn how to do whatever is going on around you where people make more money than you do. Learn how to fish. Learn how to do percentages and fractions. Learn how to keep books. Learn how to tune a car.

Man....you must have very little imagination to think that there is nothing to learn in life that can financially benefit someone. Usually the difference between someone who makes more and someone who makes less is knowledge of some sort or another.

So my sister in law goes to work at 8am and finishes at 10pm, at what time should I suggest her to go and learn to measure and cut wood? where? which crop do you know about that is going to make money? Fishing? Where? When?

"Learn how to do whatever is going on around you where people make more money than you do."

So you condone people treating farangs as walking atms?

Sounds like your sister in law is not poor at all....she has a regular job. Why do you think she is poor?

[canadiangirl]

A very interesting question, meemiathai.

It's more realistic, I think, to consider how one could rise from poverty to being middle-class, or upper-working class, than these rags-to-riches stories.

There's a great writer called Ruby Payne who wrote a book called "A Framework for understanding poverty" -- it's aimed at middle class teachers in the American school system who teach poor inner city kids. She says that poverty is not just a lack of money, but a lack of all kinds of different resources

emotional: emotional stability, self-esteem, confidence (so having the confidence in oneself to apply for scholarships, jobs, etc, which often poor people don't have)

physical: personal health, being attractive, being well-dressed (having bad teeth, unattractive clothes, and being sick often from malnutrition, not having money to go to the doctor)

spiritual: having hope, faith in the future

mental: being smart, having an education

support system: having your family support you, help from extended family

"cultural capital": understanding middle class and ruling class culture

role models: having people around you that you admire and you can learn from

financial: $$$

The more of these you have, the better your chances of rising out of poverty. When only money is lacking but the other factors are there, it's not that hard to rise out of it -- a good example of this to me seems to be Chinese immigrants -- after one or two generation do very, very well, no matter where they are. Because they seem to have every other resources -- strong family ties, value on education, desire to move forward, lots of examples to emulate.

[lazeeboy]

A very interesting question, meemiathai.

It's more realistic, I think, to consider how one could rise from poverty to being middle-class, or upper-working class, than these rags-to-riches stories.

There's a great writer called Ruby Payne who wrote a book called "A Framework for understanding poverty" -- it's aimed at middle class teachers in the American school system who teach poor inner city kids. She says that poverty is not just a lack of money, but a lack of all kinds of different resources

emotional: emotional stability, self-esteem, confidence (so having the confidence in oneself to apply for scholarships, jobs, etc, which often poor people don't have)

physical: personal health, being attractive, being well-dressed (having bad teeth, unattractive clothes, and being sick often from malnutrition, not having money to go to the doctor)

spiritual: having hope, faith in the future

mental: being smart, having an education

support system: having your family support you, help from extended family

"cultural capital": understanding middle class and ruling class culture

role models: having people around you that you admire and you can learn from

financial: $$$

The more of these you have, the better your chances of rising out of poverty. When only money is lacking but the other factors are there, it's not that hard to rise out of it -- a good example of this to me seems to be Chinese immigrants -- after one or two generation do very, very well, no matter where they are. Because they seem to have every other resources -- strong family ties, value on education, desire to move forward, lots of examples to emulate.

it can be done ,work hard listen and learn from others ,read about things to educate yourself ,stay away from bad influences ,most of all try to be fair and always remember where you came from ...