Does Poverty In Thailand Ever Get You Down?

[JR Texas]

BTW JR, I apologize if my post reads as snotty. I forget that you can't see my ugly face when I type so you don't see the smile, cuz I do understand your point. I gotta remember that this isn't a peer review exercise, just opinions and personal comments. Again, sorry if it read as rude.

Rude? Nothing rude about it. You were pointing out a different perspective and an error in the way that I worded things.........that is fine. It strikes me as incredible that so many people on this planet are extremely poor........so poor that they do not make as much money as people in rich countries spend on dairy feed per day.........or whatever. We take a lot for granted. The next post after this one (Samran) talked about poverty being reduced rapidly in Asia.......yes, a lot of people are better off, but the vast majority of poverty is in Asia (and Africa).

The main problem is not with left-wing lunatic professors and UN officials........they hardly have a voice in today's world. Virtually every sector is struggling under the weight of a mindless, insensitive type of right wing ideology. I do not want to get into a political debate here, as that is a topic that we are supposed to not discuss. I know and certainly expect that the vast majority of the readers reading what I wrote will disagree and think I am a lunatic. Fine........there will be a day of awakening........I hope......soon.

The signs of decline are everywhere. At the same time more people are living lives that would make the ancient Kings look like paupers. But they represent a small fraction of humanity. OK........rant over. GOOD LUCK!

[uptou]

Its the dogs i feel sorry for.

[sibeymai]

Does poverty in Thailand ever get me down ?

Not while I can feed myself for 50 baht a day.

[Spee]

Poverty in Thailand gets me down.........absolutely. I am sick of it. I am sick of it not just in Thailand, but worldwide.

It is 2007 and we are acting like it is the 14th century. Yes, we can eliminate poverty from the face of the earth. The ruling elite would like for you to think otherwise. It is simple: 1) greatly reduce population levels worldwide to perhaps 2 billion tops; 2) develop and deploy a new energy system that will emancipate people from the material conditions of life (totally new system........your personal energy system).

Reducing population levels (and reducing the global supply of slave labor) would be a serious challenge to multinational corporations. The labor supply problem would start to reverse itself, putting more power in the hands of labor.

Developing and deploying a new and sustainable energy system (via a global R&D project) would empower human beings like never before. This would create peace by greatly enhancing the quality of life for the majority. That would challenge the arms industry. Such a system would also make the internal combustion engine obsolete and that would challenge the oil industry.

If we do nothing else for future generations, we should reject any politician that does not address these two issues.

Well I didn't think anyone could be further off the deep end than the OP, but you figured out a way. As many have stated, correctly IMHO, there is a huge difference between being poor and living in poverty. A simple of comparison on refugee camps in Darfur and small villages in Thailand bear this out. In one, most people have little money but they have food, shelter, clean water, access to basic health care, etc. In the other, they have none. One is an example of poverty and one is an example of poor.

Now on to all this other madness like population control. "Government 101" is that you don't implement any policy that cannot be enforced. So your solution is to control population to 20% of current levels. How in the heck do you expect this to happen? Through government control or military force? You oughta be living in Communist China. Even there, with their draconian government-enforced population control, they still have all of the same problems as any other large emerging country. Or maybe you control it through mass extermination? Hate to break the news, but it's been tried.

As for your pipedreams about having a new global energy system, again I hate to break this news to you, but we already have one. It's called oil. And now take a seat because I don't want you to fall over when I break the news, but oil as an energy supply drives and enhances the world economy. It does not restrict it. Oh, and by the way, there's a heck of a lot more of it left than greenies and others would like you to believe.

As for the arms industry, you should be happy that there is one. It is because of well armed militaries that the vast majority of the world lives in relative peace. If you want to do something about the rampant proliferation of arms, then why don't you start with the middle Asian tribal borderlands where entire local economies are driven by the arms trade?

Sorry, but your dreams smack way too close to Hitler, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Soylent Green, Big Brother, 1984, and Brave New World.

As an antidote to your afflictions, may I suggest a heavy dose of the late great economist Dr. Milton Friedman and his views on libertarianism and free market economy. Here's a place to start:

[soundman]

You oughta be living in Communist China.

If Sonthi gets into politics & wins this could well happen to Thailand....

[JR Texas]

Poverty in Thailand gets me down.........absolutely. I am sick of it. I am sick of it not just in Thailand, but worldwide.

It is 2007 and we are acting like it is the 14th century. Yes, we can eliminate poverty from the face of the earth. The ruling elite would like for you to think otherwise. It is simple: 1) greatly reduce population levels worldwide to perhaps 2 billion tops; 2) develop and deploy a new energy system that will emancipate people from the material conditions of life (totally new system........your personal energy system).

Reducing population levels (and reducing the global supply of slave labor) would be a serious challenge to multinational corporations. The labor supply problem would start to reverse itself, putting more power in the hands of labor.

Developing and deploying a new and sustainable energy system (via a global R&D project) would empower human beings like never before. This would create peace by greatly enhancing the quality of life for the majority. That would challenge the arms industry. Such a system would also make the internal combustion engine obsolete and that would challenge the oil industry.

If we do nothing else for future generations, we should reject any politician that does not address these two issues.

Well I didn't think anyone could be further off the deep end than the OP, but you figured out a way. As many have stated, correctly IMHO, there is a huge difference between being poor and living in poverty. A simple of comparison on refugee camps in Darfur and small villages in Thailand bear this out. In one, most people have little money but they have food, shelter, clean water, access to basic health care, etc. In the other, they have none. One is an example of poverty and one is an example of poor.

Now on to all this other madness like population control. "Government 101" is that you don't implement any policy that cannot be enforced. So your solution is to control population to 20% of current levels. How in the heck do you expect this to happen? Through government control or military force? You oughta be living in Communist China. Even there, with their draconian government-enforced population control, they still have all of the same problems as any other large emerging country. Or maybe you control it through mass extermination? Hate to break the news, but it's been tried.

As for your pipedreams about having a new global energy system, again I hate to break this news to you, but we already have one. It's called oil. And now take a seat because I don't want you to fall over when I break the news, but oil as an energy supply drives and enhances the world economy. It does not restrict it. Oh, and by the way, there's a heck of a lot more of it left than greenies and others would like you to believe.

As for the arms industry, you should be happy that there is one. It is because of well armed militaries that the vast majority of the world lives in relative peace. If you want to do something about the rampant proliferation of arms, then why don't you start with the middle Asian tribal borderlands where entire local economies are driven by the arms trade?

Sorry, but your dreams smack way too close to Hitler, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Soylent Green, Big Brother, 1984, and Brave New World.

As an antidote to your afflictions, may I suggest a heavy dose of the late great economist Dr. Milton Friedman and his views on libertarianism and free market economy. Here's a place to start:

I respect your ability to voice an opinion.........BUT......"What's in your head.....in your head........Zombie, Zombie, Zombie......."

It is amazing how a few people can control the thoughts of so many people to the point where they actually embrace beliefs that will destroy them. C. Wright Mills used to call them "grinning robots."

[Spee]

You oughta be living in Communist China.

If Sonthi gets into politics & wins this could well happen to Thailand....

If or when that possiblity ever happens, you and I (and most others in this forum) will have no say in the matter because we are visitors and guests of this country. We would just have to deal with the consequences of any change in our personal lives brought about by that change. Of course I hope that this would not happen and that Thailand would continue to pursue a democatic government and a free market economy.

Getting back to the original thread, in the event of this happening, I'm not sure there would be any immediate effect to people classified as either "poor" or "living in poverty." Obviously long term, it has been proven time and again that government intervention (in the vast, vast majority of cases) makes the plight of the poor and impoverished worse rather than better. People are better off with less government and more freedom to choose their own destiny.

Thailand is different in some ways because it is still a largely agrarian country. I think it is a net exporter of food. A country with a surplus of food will never have the problems or rampant poverty of a country that has no food (pick any number of countries in Africa as a comparison). Potable water, good food supply, shelter, access to basic health care ..... these are the basics of a good stable life. Maybe not an extravagant lifestyle or even a modest one, but a stable healthy lifestyle nonetheless. IMHO, this means that the vast majority of people in Thailand live as good or better life than most of the world's population. That says a lot about the country as a whole.

[solo siam]

You oughta be living in Communist China.

If Sonthi gets into politics & wins this could well happen to Thailand....

Is he a communist, or thinking of starting a Thai communist party then?

[WaiWai]

"the vast majority of people in Thailand live as good or better life than most of the world's population. That says a lot about the country as a whole."

Perhaps, but what about education & some personal freedoms, such as freedom of speech ?

BTW, many people in China have more freedom than most Thais probably have. The nation no longer regards itself as Communist, either.

"Socialism with Chinese characteristics" (Traditional Chinese: 具有中國特色的社會主義 Simplified Chinese: 具有中国特色的社会主义, Pronunciation (help·info): Jùyǒu Zhōngguó tèsè de shèhuìzhǔyì) is an official term for the economy of the People's Republic of China which as of 2007 consists of mixed forms of private and public ownership competing within a market environment, creating a system that is in essence identical to capitalism where the state dominates parts of the economy.

John Gittings in The Changing Face of China quotes Deng Xiaoping as stating:

"Planning and market forces are not the essential difference between socialism and capitalism. A planned economy is not the definition of socialism, because there is planning under capitalism; the market economy happens under socialism, too. Planning and market forces are both ways of controlling economic activity." [1]

The PRC government maintains that it has not abandoned Marxism, but is simply redefining many of the terms and concepts of Marxist theory to accommodate its new economic system. The ruling Communist Party of China argues that socialism is not incompatible with these economic policies. In current Chinese Communist thinking, the PRC is in the primary stage of socialism, and this redefinition allows the PRC to undertake economic policies that attract the foreign capital necessary to develop into an industrialized nation.

Wikipaedia

[samran]

thread cleaned up. Off topic posts and some of those responding to them have been trashed, especially those comments which have been designed to wind up people and cause fights.

Repeat offenders will be suspended. Public warning.

[Ulysses G.]

As a vegan, it pains me to do this...

who or what is a "vegan" pray tell?

They don't eat meat, eggs or dairy products.

[samran]

As a vegan, it pains me to do this...

who or what is a "vegan" pray tell?

They don't eat meat, eggs or dairy products.

and as much as possible, try and refrain from using animal products where that animal had to be slaughtered to get it.

One of my best mates, a fund manager in France is a vegan. As an economist, his arguments against eating meat on the grounds of economic efficiency and wasted resources are quite persuasive.

Unfortunately, a nice rare steak on a plate seems to make me forget economics 101.

[soundman]

Unfortunately, a nice rare steak on a plate seems to make me forget economics 101.

Unfortunately a nice bloody steak with a mouth watering "Squires Loft" sauce seems to make me forget everything!

[Spee]

"the vast majority of people in Thailand live as good or better life than most of the world's population. That says a lot about the country as a whole."

Perhaps, but what about education & some personal freedoms, such as freedom of speech ?

BTW, many people in China have more freedom than most Thais probably have. The nation no longer regards itself as Communist, either.

IMHO, it is not even remotely possible to compare China and Thailand. One has an authoritarian central communist government. The other is a constitutional democratic monarchy (temporary military government aside).

China may no longer regard itself as communist, but that doesn't change the reality of the country's politics and authoritarian central government. No one in China does anything that is not first approved by the central government. That goes all the way down to family level where basic right to reproduce is restricted. If more examples are needed, one needs look no further than the city of Beijing, and how the central government effectively moved in and took complete control of the city and its people to mandate the rollout of the Olympic effort. It's a sham and a farce.

The only reason that China has changed at all is because of capitalist, anti-communist and economic forces. China has changed only because change has been thrust upon it. Primary on these are the transfer of HK several years ago and the need to participate in the growing world economy. The paradoxes are amazing and remarkable, if not hypocritical.

As far as freedom and opportunity for the country's people goes, again I don't think there is any comparison. The central government sets all the rules in one and does not in the other. No comparison, IMHO.

[thaigene2]

i played for real madrid for two years in the early 90's. i retired from real estate two years ago. my networth is upwards of 120 million baht.

does this qualify me to use the nick realmadrid, dupont?

Yeah, I know we shouldn't feed this troll, but it's irrestable - "in'it?"

Hey pal if you were a "real" man you'd have played ice hockey - but never mind. You've still got your teeth - and your money.

Look - the IOM (International Organization for Migration) just released a new report - was in the Bkk Post today - that says in Cambodia only 9% of the lechers there are farang - the rest are Asian - with half of the pedophiles coming from their own country.

I see these rich people (like you) - with the best of intentions - but they have no idea what they are talking about. My best advice if you really care about the plight of local people - and I believe you truly do - is to learn the truth first - and not accept the B=shit.

The people in these countries are exploited by RICH people...LOCAL rich people, get it? Not the same as in the West - though exploited there too. Probably the Thai people who surround you - and speak english - you think are nice people - even your friends in your comfy little retired foorballer's world. Ask yourself this - where did THEY get their money and HOW did they get it? The answer is always, daddy was a civil servant but also had a 'business'. Then think about their answers and look around you...then think again. Eventually you will understand the truth and how it relates to the sex situation and eveything else here. The penny will drop - just open your mind to the truth...

[WaiWai]

Thailand is far more repressive than contemporary China.

[Dupont]

i played for real madrid for two years in the early 90's. i retired from real estate two years ago. my networth is upwards of 120 million baht.

does this qualify me to use the nick realmadrid, dupont?

Yeah, I know we shouldn't feed this troll, but it's irrestable - "in'it?"

Hey pal if you were a "real" man you'd have played ice hockey - but never mind. You've still got your teeth - and your money.

Look - the IOM (International Organization for Migration) just released a new report - was in the Bkk Post today - that says in Cambodia only 9% of the lechers there are farang - the rest are Asian - with half of the pedophiles coming from their own country.

I see these rich people (like you) - with the best of intentions - but they have no idea what they are talking about. My best advice if you really care about the plight of local people - and I believe you truly do - is to learn the truth first - and not accept the B=shit.

The people in these countries are exploited by RICH people...LOCAL rich people, get it? Not the same as in the West - though exploited there too. Probably the Thai people who surround you - and speak english - you think are nice people - even your friends in your comfy little retired foorballer's world. Ask yourself this - where did THEY get their money and HOW did they get it? The answer is always, daddy was a civil servant but also had a 'business'. Then think about their answers and look around you...then think again. Eventually you will understand the truth and how it relates to the sex situation and eveything else here. The penny will drop - just open your mind to the truth...

OMG a footballist and Estate Agent. We are so unworthy!

Obviously your years of experience outside of Thailand have qualified you to come on here and sterotype, insult and accuse all and sundry of being rapists, kid killers etc.

Give yourself some credibility by naming all these western killers and rapists! Then we may start to take you seriously.

PS. I wouldn't mention the 120 million to your tee lak!!!

[siam-i-am]

i know i am supposed to be thrilled that prices in Thailand are low and the Thai people are mostly poor, and all of the advantages this provides middle aged Western men living in Thailand but I just can't do it. Does anyone else find it kind of sickening how much farang in Thailand talk about how cheap everything is and what they can get? You see a young girl walking with an old man and it just destroys you. If she was born in another country her life would be so much better. Also I get the feeling that the majority of westerners in Thailand failed in their home countries.

I made enough in my country (England) to retire at 49 I cannot spend what my investments pay me, but I know if I took your attitude and left, a lot of (poor) Thai's would be worse off. Would that make you happy? Who said life was fair? In the lottery of life I won first prize born Male, white, and English. I'm proud to say I've never cheated anyone out of a penny and treat every one I meet with respect I've dined with royalty and fed beggers in Bangkok. I also know that the money I spend here brings more satisfaction to the people than the money I could spend in UK. Your not supposed to be thrilled prices are low, just accept with all it's warts. Thailand is a good place to be. As for old men with young girls have you never walked around Mayfair, Times square, Rodeo drive, money is an aphrodisiac, if I can date a woman half my age in Rome why should Bangkok be any different. I take it you are still young? If not in life then certainly in the ways of the world. In a perfect world we would not be having this discussion, smell the coffee. I guess the answer to your question is... No

[Spee]

Thailand is far more repressive than contemporary China.

Digressing from the original post, but would you care to offer some examples? What kinds of repression exist in Thailand that don't exist in China? Or same repression but to a larger degree?

[wasabi]

Long ago I made a post similar to the OPs, I don't know what his motivations are but I can admit mine was a feeling of guilt. I was condemning the very wrong I knew I was partaking in. It mostly had to do with the fact I am one of those ugly white guys holding hands with a BG from time to time. I felt badly about taking advantage of someone else and tried to pretend I was part of the choir lambasting the fat white bald gits with blameless Noi.

As of today my feelings about the sex industry are not resolved but I don't think I feel guilty any more. And I can honestly say I come to Thailand for many reasons and if the sex industry was gone I still would, also it was not the original reason I came, though I don't think less of those who come only for that reason.

In the most simple terms I think johns and prostitutes deserve each other. The sex trade will always be sensationalized. In my opinion only some of it rightly so. Those forced into it and I mean locked in a room somewhere and having their passport thrown away or those who are underage evoke my sympathy. As for the rest and my role in it, it's a part of the spectrum of life. And I really can't see a reason why sex can't be a service like anything else? Though you can't make direct analogies, many people must prostitute themselves in some form to survive. I often feel my god ###### boss is pimping me out. Prostitution in it's literal and metaphorical forms becomes bothersome when the person is not paid fairly or treated fairly for their service. I've met many working girls and johns. It's not all fat bald guys and little girls yearning to get back to the rice paddies in Chiang Rai. The industry defies simplification. There are girls with three sponsors raking in 100k baht a month each whom offer to take her to their home countries and make a wife of her who are still in on the game. Guys who could have any girl in any country who want to take a girl from a Go-go to Koh Chang for a couple of days. I don't know all the reasons but I've seen plenty of people from both sides having a ###### good time that make me want to keep coming back.

Thailand is a complex amalgam of cultures and ideas. I've found trying to box it neatly into our western ideals only leads to hypocrisy and self righteousness.

Edited September 16, 2007 by wasabi

[JR Texas]

Thailand is far more repressive than contemporary China.

Having just lived in China for almost one year, and now Thailand for an extended period, I have to say that Thailand seems more repressive than China. In terms of its treatment of Westerners, China is much better.........immigration offices are efficient, the people working in them are nice, and the visa rules are simple and make sense and do not change each day.

[canadiangirl]

Long ago I made a post similar to the OPs, I don't know what his motivations are but I can admit mine was a feeling of guilt. I was condemning the very wrong I knew I was partaking in. It mostly had to do with the fact I am one of those ugly white guys holding hands with a BG from time to time. I felt badly about taking advantage of someone else and tried to pretend I was part of the choir lambasting the fat white bald gits with blameless Noi.

A very interesting post wasabi. Thanks for your honesty. I expect the "truth" about that industry is a lot closer to the ambiguity you describe than claiming it's all good or all bad.

[jonniebkk]

Nope.

[wilko]

Poverty in Thailand gets me down.........absolutely. I am sick of it. I am sick of it not just in Thailand, but worldwide.

It is 2007 and we are acting like it is the 14th century. Yes, we can eliminate poverty from the face of the earth. The ruling elite would like for you to think otherwise. It is simple: 1) greatly reduce population levels worldwide to perhaps 2 billion tops; 2) develop and deploy a new energy system that will emancipate people from the material conditions of life (totally new system........your personal energy system).

Reducing population levels (and reducing the global supply of slave labor) would be a serious challenge to multinational corporations. The labor supply problem would start to reverse itself, putting more power in the hands of labor.

Developing and deploying a new and sustainable energy system (via a global R&D project) would empower human beings like never before. This would create peace by greatly enhancing the quality of life for the majority. That would challenge the arms industry. Such a system would also make the internal combustion engine obsolete and that would challenge the oil industry.

If we do nothing else for future generations, we should reject any politician that does not address these two issues.

Well I didn't think anyone could be further off the deep end than the OP, but you figured out a way. As many have stated, correctly IMHO, there is a huge difference between being poor and living in poverty. A simple of comparison on refugee camps in Darfur and small villages in Thailand bear this out. In one, most people have little money but they have food, shelter, clean water, access to basic health care, etc. In the other, they have none. One is an example of poverty and one is an example of poor.

Now on to all this other madness like population control. "Government 101" is that you don't implement any policy that cannot be enforced. So your solution is to control population to 20% of current levels. How in the heck do you expect this to happen? Through government control or military force? You oughta be living in Communist China. Even there, with their draconian government-enforced population control, they still have all of the same problems as any other large emerging country. Or maybe you control it through mass extermination? Hate to break the news, but it's been tried.

As for your pipedreams about having a new global energy system, again I hate to break this news to you, but we already have one. It's called oil. And now take a seat because I don't want you to fall over when I break the news, but oil as an energy supply drives and enhances the world economy. It does not restrict it. Oh, and by the way, there's a heck of a lot more of it left than greenies and others would like you to believe.

As for the arms industry, you should be happy that there is one. It is because of well armed militaries that the vast majority of the world lives in relative peace. If you want to do something about the rampant proliferation of arms, then why don't you start with the middle Asian tribal borderlands where entire local economies are driven by the arms trade?

Sorry, but your dreams smack way too close to Hitler, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Soylent Green, Big Brother, 1984, and Brave New World.

As an antidote to your afflictions, may I suggest a heavy dose of the late great economist Dr. Milton Friedman and his views on libertarianism and free market economy. Here's a place to start:

If you can imagine what you've written but the complete opposite - that would be something like the reality of the situation

[siamamerican]

Poverty in Thailand gets me down.........absolutely. I am sick of it. I am sick of it not just in Thailand, but worldwide.

It is 2007 and we are acting like it is the 14th century. Yes, we can eliminate poverty from the face of the earth. The ruling elite would like for you to think otherwise. It is simple: 1) greatly reduce population levels worldwide to perhaps 2 billion tops; 2) develop and deploy a new energy system that will emancipate people from the material conditions of life (totally new system........your personal energy system).

Reducing population levels (and reducing the global supply of slave labor) would be a serious challenge to multinational corporations. The labor supply problem would start to reverse itself, putting more power in the hands of labor.

Developing and deploying a new and sustainable energy system (via a global R&D project) would empower human beings like never before. This would create peace by greatly enhancing the quality of life for the majority. That would challenge the arms industry. Such a system would also make the internal combustion engine obsolete and that would challenge the oil industry.

If we do nothing else for future generations, we should reject any politician that does not address these two issues.

Well I didn't think anyone could be further off the deep end than the OP, but you figured out a way. As many have stated, correctly IMHO, there is a huge difference between being poor and living in poverty. A simple of comparison on refugee camps in Darfur and small villages in Thailand bear this out. In one, most people have little money but they have food, shelter, clean water, access to basic health care, etc. In the other, they have none. One is an example of poverty and one is an example of poor.

Now on to all this other madness like population control. "Government 101" is that you don't implement any policy that cannot be enforced. So your solution is to control population to 20% of current levels. How in the heck do you expect this to happen? Through government control or military force? You oughta be living in Communist China. Even there, with their draconian government-enforced population control, they still have all of the same problems as any other large emerging country. Or maybe you control it through mass extermination? Hate to break the news, but it's been tried.

As for your pipedreams about having a new global energy system, again I hate to break this news to you, but we already have one. It's called oil. And now take a seat because I don't want you to fall over when I break the news, but oil as an energy supply drives and enhances the world economy. It does not restrict it. Oh, and by the way, there's a heck of a lot more of it left than greenies and others would like you to believe.

As for the arms industry, you should be happy that there is one. It is because of well armed militaries that the vast majority of the world lives in relative peace. If you want to do something about the rampant proliferation of arms, then why don't you start with the middle Asian tribal borderlands where entire local economies are driven by the arms trade?

Sorry, but your dreams smack way too close to Hitler, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Soylent Green, Big Brother, 1984, and Brave New World.

As an antidote to your afflictions, may I suggest a heavy dose of the late great economist Dr. Milton Friedman and his views on libertarianism and free market economy. Here's a place to start:

If you can imagine what you've written but the complete opposite - that would be something like the reality of the situation

Wainkor,

What is your problem? Are you having a brain seizure? Did you actually read the post you hammered? The posters ideas were somewhat dreamlike, but how did you get to comparing him to Hitler and Stalin?

What is wrong with developing a better and SUBSTAINABLE energy system? It definitely won't happen if our leaders are as dogmatic as yourself.

Both your post and the post you criticized had little substance. Keep on raging!!!

Edited September 17, 2007 by siamamerican

[solo siam]

Thailand is far more repressive than contemporary China.

Simply not true, just some of the things off the top of my head...

One Child Policy

Restricted movement between provinces

Execution of corrupt officials

No national elections of any sort

No religous freedom

No free press (Thailand is 122nd whilst China is 163rd out of 168 countries)

Forced relocations

Complete censorship of the internet (no, this is not the same as some ISP's blocking youtube for a couple of months)

Chinese people have had absolutely no say in who runs the country for 50 years, the communist party decides, there is only the communist party.

[h5n1]

You want to be bummed, go to Cambodia, India or Indonesia. I'm living now in Thailand because of the LACK of poverty.

[lancelotlink]

Poverty gets me down. I feel bad for those who have tough lives. I don't feel that all Thais are poor though. As you can see the streets are loaded with cars and shopping malls are full. Of course this doesn't mean people are wealthy but for many life isn't so bad. I used to be a volunteer here. I feel that the poor people here need some help but foreigners aren't the ones who should be doing it. There are excessively wealthy Thai people who could give their time and money to help their country. They don't do enough. If I went back home and told someone that the girl across the street is from Thailand, most likely they would think that she's obviously poor. Ridiculous! Most of the Thais living inthe west are suffering. The wealthy Thais send their kids abroad and when then get their people in the developed countries stereotype them as poor. I know a girl who went abroad to get a Masters and got a scholarship for 2500 bucks or so. I really can't say what the professor was thinking but I know for a fact that the girl's parents have 10 houses and the father is a high ranking cop in Thailand. Should all those Saudi princes be getting scholarships too?

There are a lot of problems in Thailand. The poor people deserve education, justice and opportunity. Those that have benefited fromThailand should cough up the cash and help this country. The government should also encourage people to have one child or two at the most. The government should do a lot and be sincere about it. I am one peson who believes if the haves don't care the havenpts will someday show them that they don't care either as they have done in so many developing countries like Cambodia, etc.

[TheDon]

Yes I do feel down at times, especially when you see an old lady begging.

But Thailand is better off then alot of places in the world. Plus its there attitudes that is what is great, Thailand is a great place and they dont really ask for much, yeah they may have young girls who want the latest phones they cant afford and take out contracts etc but thats like that all over the world.

Thailand is a country that is one the way up.

Look at Congo etc, now thats what you call poverty

[Spee]

Poverty in Thailand gets me down.........absolutely. I am sick of it. I am sick of it not just in Thailand, but worldwide.

It is 2007 and we are acting like it is the 14th century. Yes, we can eliminate poverty from the face of the earth. The ruling elite would like for you to think otherwise. It is simple: 1) greatly reduce population levels worldwide to perhaps 2 billion tops; 2) develop and deploy a new energy system that will emancipate people from the material conditions of life (totally new system........your personal energy system).

Reducing population levels (and reducing the global supply of slave labor) would be a serious challenge to multinational corporations. The labor supply problem would start to reverse itself, putting more power in the hands of labor.

Developing and deploying a new and sustainable energy system (via a global R&D project) would empower human beings like never before. This would create peace by greatly enhancing the quality of life for the majority. That would challenge the arms industry. Such a system would also make the internal combustion engine obsolete and that would challenge the oil industry.

If we do nothing else for future generations, we should reject any politician that does not address these two issues.

Well I didn't think anyone could be further off the deep end than the OP, but you figured out a way. As many have stated, correctly IMHO, there is a huge difference between being poor and living in poverty. A simple of comparison on refugee camps in Darfur and small villages in Thailand bear this out. In one, most people have little money but they have food, shelter, clean water, access to basic health care, etc. In the other, they have none. One is an example of poverty and one is an example of poor.

Now on to all this other madness like population control. "Government 101" is that you don't implement any policy that cannot be enforced. So your solution is to control population to 20% of current levels. How in the heck do you expect this to happen? Through government control or military force? You oughta be living in Communist China. Even there, with their draconian government-enforced population control, they still have all of the same problems as any other large emerging country. Or maybe you control it through mass extermination? Hate to break the news, but it's been tried.

As for your pipedreams about having a new global energy system, again I hate to break this news to you, but we already have one. It's called oil. And now take a seat because I don't want you to fall over when I break the news, but oil as an energy supply drives and enhances the world economy. It does not restrict it. Oh, and by the way, there's a heck of a lot more of it left than greenies and others would like you to believe.

As for the arms industry, you should be happy that there is one. It is because of well armed militaries that the vast majority of the world lives in relative peace. If you want to do something about the rampant proliferation of arms, then why don't you start with the middle Asian tribal borderlands where entire local economies are driven by the arms trade?

Sorry, but your dreams smack way too close to Hitler, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Soylent Green, Big Brother, 1984, and Brave New World.

As an antidote to your afflictions, may I suggest a heavy dose of the late great economist Dr. Milton Friedman and his views on libertarianism and free market economy. Here's a place to start:

If you can imagine what you've written but the complete opposite - that would be something like the reality of the situation

Ok, I'll bite.

- Make opposites of being poor versus living in poverty. I can't really fathom thinking of these in terms of being opposite. They are what they are. Poor is not poverty and poverty is not poor. If given a choice between just the two, I think everyone would rather be poor than live in poverty.

- Population control versus no population control. Most of the world has no population control and makes out just fine. The only places I can think of that have population control are communist China, and a multitude of places in Africa, eastern Europe and the middle east, the latter group which does this through racist government policies and ethnic cleansing (think Zimbabwe, Somalia, the Balkans, etc.). I can't imagine how having the rest of the world live like these opposites would benefit anyone.

- A world with oil or a world without. Lemme see if I can fathom this one. No cars, no airplanes, no ships, no trains, no electricity, no hospitals, no medical care, no ability to mass produce food, no stable local, national or international economies. Gee, sounds like the dark ages. Sorry, been there, done that.

- A world with arms or a world without. Again lemme see if I can fathom this one. Nope sorry, just can't get there. Generally speaking, man tends to be an aggressive animal by nothing else than simple basic human nature. Non-aggressive men will not fight with other non-aggressive men. This is true. Aggressive men will always fight with each other because it is in their nature to do so, or until one beats the other into submission. The only way non-agressive men keep aggressive men at bay is through the show or use of force, sometimes beating the aggressive men into submission. Sorry, but that is the way the world turns.

- Now saving the best for last, a world where government tells me what I can and can't do, versus living my life with freedom to choose my own destiny. If you can find anyone on the planet who would rather live like the former than the latter, then all you will see are people who have already been turned into zombies from excessive government control. Past of Russia are a case in point. The vast majority of the people on this planet want little more than to live in freedom and work at a job of their choosing that allows them to support themselves and their families. That's not too much for anyone to ask, and it is not within the right of any government to take it away.