Flight OG269: At Least 88 Bodies Found At Phuket Airport Crash Site

[tracer]

Sad but I just saw this on a different mailing list:

Isn't that the same shit pot airline that was barred by the EU from

flying to Europe? They had, IIRC, and old 747 with fuel leaking from

the wings, and threatened to sue the passengers for slander when they

complained about it!.

Was confirmed by other member but if true, I havent got a clue.

I suppose it can be checked.

As far as I am concerned you get what you pay for.... I fly a lot and NO WAY they get me in one of these airlines who cannot make enough money...

[Mid]

^

sounds like the old Phuket Air

[Florin]

Sad but I just saw this on a different mailing list:

Isn't that the same shit pot airline that was barred by the EU from

flying to Europe? They had, IIRC, and old 747 with fuel leaking from

the wings, and threatened to sue the passengers for slander when they

complained about it!.

Was confirmed by other member but if true, I havent got a clue.

I suppose it can be checked.

As far as I am concerned you get what you pay for.... I fly a lot and NO WAY they get me in one of these airlines who cannot make enough money...

The reference must be to Phuket Air...and yeah, no amount of money was worth flying that piece of crap, safety aside, they were an extremely unreliable airline in terms of scheduling/cancellations. One could get there faster on a bus

[JetsetBkk]

I didn't say they pretended to be heroes, but that they lost an opportunity to be. Shame? It's up to them if they feel shame - it depends on what sort of person they each think they are and whether they each lived up to their own expectations.

I think this is the stupidest post that I have ever read! "I've survived an air crash, I'm OK but I'll go back into the inferno and be a hero!" What utter poppycock! I would not ask you what you would do but if you are ever in a situation like that I only wish for one thing for you - that someone behind you had a clean pair of underpants for you and a roll of toilet paper!

Watch the video: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/videot/?id=1437166&ap=1

and then read my first post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1544088

and then my next: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1544952

Maybe you'll understand then.

[JetsetBkk]

Airline begins compensation payments

Phuket – One-Two-Go, operator of the airliner which crashed in bad weather Sunday, has paid the first compensation to relatives of those who died in the air crash at Phuket International Airport.

Phuket deputy governor Vorapot Rajsima met with One-Two-Go airline executives Wednesday on compensating relatives of the dead.

The airline agreed to pay 100,000 baht to the family of each victim. More than 10 relatives of the dead victims received the money from the airlines, but they will later receive more -- about five million baht -- from the insurer.

Relatives of Kaninnart Martmuang, one of 89 passengers killed in the air crash, said the compensation payment was delayed. They said they received an initial sum of 20,000 baht in compensation.

Meanwhile, out of 89 bodies, 41 bodies including 36 Thai nationals and five foreigners were returned to their relatives.

All 32 bodies of Thai passengers and 26 bodies of other nationalities have been identified while the remaining 31 bodies of international passengers remain unidentified as forensic officials are waiting for evidence from their relatives. (TNA)

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=121836

5,000,000 baht = 75,000 GBP

[chrislarsson]

Sad but I just saw this on a different mailing list:

Isn't that the same shit pot airline that was barred by the EU from

flying to Europe? They had, IIRC, and old 747 with fuel leaking from

the wings, and threatened to sue the passengers for slander when they

complained about it!.

Was confirmed by other member but if true, I havent got a clue.

I suppose it can be checked.

As far as I am concerned you get what you pay for.... I fly a lot and NO WAY they get me in one of these airlines who cannot make enough money...

That is Phuket Air. It went bust in early 2006.

Most of the airlines losing money are the expensive national carriers. You better stick to the budget ones then...

[madjbs]

What a stupid post. Do you think everyone should be running around screaming or something? If you have just been in a plane crash I don’t think your going to be thinking straight even if your not physically injured. To state it would be a good idea to go back to the plane in that kind of situation is plain stupid.

I watched the video again and to be honest there is no way I would be going anywhere near a plane which is half on fire and could blow up any second, Im sure if it was you, you would have recovered from he accident almost instantly and gone back to get in the plane and pull a few people out.

[cdnvic]

Phuket Air is still around, but rather than providing their own scheduled flights they lease those museum pieces to other airlines.

[skippybangkok]

One could get there faster on a bus

Actually correct. Some friends wanted to fly from Ranong to BKK after a diving trip. Equipment went by pick up, they took Phuket Air.

Equipment arrived first

[JonnyF]

The two guys in the film (white t-shirt and black t-shirt) are both British (this is obvious by listening to their accents and the phrases they use) and the one in the black t-shirt in particular matches the description of the guy who by all accounts kicked the door out before rescuing a number of fellow passengers. As he is clearly one of the first to get out, this lends weight to the theory.

Firstly, anyone who criticizes these people who have just been through such a traumatic experience and has the audacity to suggest that they would have been more heroic (from the safety of their keyboard) is in my opinion, an idiot.

Secondly, even if these guys had not kicked the door out, who can blame them for staying a safe distance away from a plane that could explode at any minute?

[peterpanner]

I didn't say they pretended to be heroes, but that they lost an opportunity to be. Shame? It's up to them if they feel shame - it depends on what sort of person they each think they are and whether they each lived up to their own expectations.

I think this is the stupidest post that I have ever read! "I've survived an air crash, I'm OK but I'll go back into the inferno and be a hero!" What utter poppycock! I would not ask you what you would do but if you are ever in a situation like that I only wish for one thing for you - that someone behind you had a clean pair of underpants for you and a roll of toilet paper!

Watch the video: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/videot/?id=1437166&ap=1

and then read my first post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1544088

and then my next: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1544952

Maybe you'll understand then.

Well I did go back and read your first post, you talked out of the wrong hole. I agree with all others, these people just lived through a terrible, terrible experience, seeing body parts and knowing it could be theirs, to account them for anything is just braindead.

I know thaivisa rules don't allow to insult others, but you hit the ceiling, hero.

[Mrjlh]

chrislarsson. A little hint. Look at the position of the flaps and control surfaces.

Correct. Flaps indicate to me he had them in a lift position because of the lower airspeed. They are not fully deployed for a landing.

This is a reasonable assumption. It would also be instructive to know the position of the slats.

His aileron is in up position on the left and down on the right. Now that I think about it he was correcting to the left not right as I originally said.

This may not be the case at all. If the hydraulic circuit is broken those surfaces can be moved into place by hand with little effort and most certainly by aerodynamic forces or subsequent impacts whether with the ground or parts shed by the disintegrating plane.

It is vitally important to wait for the evidence in in the Flight Data Recorder which will indicate the moment to moment position of flight surfaces, control inputs and certain cockpit switches, as well the plane's attitude, speed and other performance chacteristics. Conclusions should not be drawn from visual evidence alone.

The wheels are retracted. If in a down position on a hard landing they would have sheared off...

Again, this may not be the case at all.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6...=aircraft+crash

This hard landing of that MD-80 (for most purposes identical to the MD-82 lost at Phuket) is sufficient to cause the aircraft to shed the entire empanage, but the main landing gear stays on.

That video also seems to show (although it may be just poor video quality) the flexion of the airframe at nearly the precise point forward of the wings where the Phuket plane broke into sections.

Plus you would see deep gouges in the earth which as the picture shows are not there. And none of the other pictures available show it either. Nor do you find any landing gear parts any where. At least they haven't been shown to my knowledge. This also coincides with what the tower controllers said, "wheels where up".

Absense of evidence is not evidence of absence, as the saying goes. It may well be the wheels were down and separated immediately from the airframe and bounced into the jungle. Alternately the tail and wing part may have moved in a few big hops before spearing into the hillside and falling rather than skidding into its final position.

That latter notion could be borne out by looking at the survival pattern of those immediately behind the break. Because of the angle of impact, those on the port side enjoyed a little more time while their section decelerated, while those on the starboard side were seated in the crumple zone. Again, only the full report will tell the tale.

Those seeking to interpret survivor locations would do well to be aware of what seats were vacant as well as those occupied by fatalities, as well as the nature of the injuries -- so far unclear - of each passenger. There are more specific potential modes of dying in an aircraft than might be initially apparent, and this tragedy is too fresh to go into the gory forensic details.

I haven't met any one on a plane yet that was able to "see" the wheels down. You can't see them from inside the plane on this model. What people on the plane "heard" was the movement of the flaps. It is also possible he lowered and then re-raised the wheels and passengers heard that.

Although the pilot has final say of the aircraft and everyone will blame him, I think he was trying to do the right thing, got caught in a wind shear, and had no possibility of recovery. The weather front came at him faster than he expected. Weather was the major cause of this accident. End of story. We'll let the black boxes speak and I never believe the "press" anyway. I've yet to see then tell the correct story about anything.

Regarding the possibility that the wheels were not down, there are only two general conclusions that can be drawn.

Either the wheels were never put down, whether: through oversight; through a highly improbable multiple system failure; or (again improbably) through the plane being forced well below its normal glideslope before the normal point on approach where they would be deployed.

Or the wheels were put down and brought up again to clean up the profile of the plane and regain airspeed during a missed approach which, tragically, could not be completed because of as yet undetermined factors.

Thank you for your intelligent reply. You brought up some very interesting counter points. But like every one else here, I made my comments based on what I see in the photos. They are my interpretation and in time when the final analysis is complete we will learn what truly happened. Or better stated what the "black boxes" tell us. I hope there is much more discussion about this accident by the authorities. It becomes too easy for them to say, yes this is what happen, and then not take measures to fix it. Do the Thai authorities usually go the extra mile and fix things quickly, or do they drag it out for the next 5 years?

[threelegcowboy]

The survivors left the plane because it was smoky and hot. Who better knew the conditions inside of the plane better than the suvivors. The people left behind died. The survivors wanted to live.

Go watch a JOHN WAYNE movie or something!

[jeebusjones]

A lot of people are blaming the pilot and crappy One-Two-Go. But after reading the most recent reports, I think Phuket Airport has a fair share of the responsibility. I can think of three major strikes:

1. 3 out of 6 weather detection systems were not operating at the time of the crash. Pretty serious f***up.

2. The runway is not grooved.

3. The emergency response time was apparently terrible, with firecrews arriving well after the international standard of three minutes. And the victims waiting 45 minutes to be bussed to the terminal is absurd. There is absolutely NO conceivable excuse for that.

What I find really disturbing is that in all likelihood these issues will not be fully addressed, as the Thai government will do everything it can to protect Phuket's reputation as a safe tourist destination. A shoddy airport will not attract the wealthy tourists they so desire.

[ThaidleHands]

And in another note: No, 45 minutes to pick up survivors isn't 'ok', no-matter what reasons you can think up. Not all wounds are fully visible externally and chock is a killer.

Shock 'can' be a killer - not shock 'is' a killer. Would you put more lives in possible danger? If I phoned you up later and told you to get enough buses to transport up to 100 PAX to a certain location, how long would it take you? What experience have you had in disaster planning and management?

That's quite unfair. Your asking a rank amateur to devise an evacuation plan on the spot.

If you're clever, you'll spot the key phrase "evacuation plan" in the prior sentence. That would be a prearranged plan to get large numbers of casualties stbilized and moved to treatment centers as fast as possible. It's the sort of plan that large facilties such as airports develop and maintain all the time in places where safety and contingency planning are taken seriously.

Even making it up on the spot is not so terribly difficult. Evaluate the ambulatory patients and put those with superficial injuries into taxis two at a time with an airport staff member and drive them to hospital with a police escort. In this incident, 15 cabs at most would have been needed, and that would hardly have made a dent in the number of predatory layabouts who linger around most of Thailand's major airports at arrival times.

[Mid]

some applicable history ......................

Phuket Airport disaster drill hailed a ‘success’

Saturday, September 8, 2007

phuketgazette.net

[cdnvic]

And considering that they had a successfull (means: all the bigwigs got their names in the paper) test of their emergency planning recently, you would think they would be on top of their game.

[JonnyF]

A lot of people are blaming the pilot and crappy One-Two-Go. But after reading the most recent reports, I think Phuket Airport has a fair share of the responsibility. I can think of three major strikes:

1. 3 out of 6 weather detection systems were not operating at the time of the crash. Pretty serious f***up.

2. The runway is not grooved.

3. The emergency response time was apparently terrible, with firecrews arriving well after the international standard of three minutes. And the victims waiting 45 minutes to be bussed to the terminal is absurd. There is absolutely NO conceivable excuse for that.

What I find really disturbing is that in all likelihood these issues will not be fully addressed, as the Thai government will do everything it can to protect Phuket's reputation as a safe tourist destination. A shoddy airport will not attract the wealthy tourists they so desire.

I agree, it is all to easy to blame the pilot now (for obvious reasons), we will have to wait for the official report but it already seems to be likely that there were other factors involved.

It will be really interesting to see how this is dealt with in the media but given the current climate I think that the tourist dollar is particularly valuable in Thailand at the moment so every effort will be made to ensure that the image of safety for tourists in Thailand does not become a major issue. The media in Thailand will be easily controlled, but for the sake of the Thai economy I really hope that the extent of safety issues in Thailand does not become a major talking point within the international media. To be honest, I don't think that it will.

[Mid]

sake of the Thai economy I really hope that the extent of safety issues in Thailand does not become a major talking point within the international media.

to hel_l with the economy ......................................

SAFTEY FIRST

[peterpanner]

This thread has about 1000 pilots and even more savants on it. Or so they claim. I was a simple ground agent on a European airport, and when a captain announced that he'd rather risk a landing than moving on, getting reconfirmed from ground ops that this might indeed be the best option (to all pseudo-pilots, there is a max of communication going on, pilots, tower, ops, ground handling agents, weather, reup support team, bus ops, firetrucks, emergency handling shift leaders, and I might have forgotten some), they moved out all firetrucks first, and if deemed necessary for gear or other real bad problems, foamed the landing strip.

Plane catastrophees happen for a number of reasons, and the most frequent are a combination of more than 2 or 3.

[cdnvic]

for the sake of the Thai economy I really hope that the extent of safety issues in Thailand does not become a major talking point within the international media. To be honest, I don't think that it will.

In hopes that another 89 or more people don't have to die, I certainly hope it will become a major talking point.

[TAWP]

The two guys in the film (white t-shirt and black t-shirt) are both British (this is obvious by listening to their accents and the phrases they use) and the one in the black t-shirt in particular matches the description of the guy who by all accounts kicked the door out before rescuing a number of fellow passengers. As he is clearly one of the first to get out, this lends weight to the theory.

Firstly, anyone who criticizes these people who have just been through such a traumatic experience and has the audacity to suggest that they would have been more heroic (from the safety of their keyboard) is in my opinion, an idiot.

Secondly, even if these guys had not kicked the door out, who can blame them for staying a safe distance away from a plane that could explode at any minute?

The guy in white is one of the Swedish guys that opened one of the doors and made it possible for others to get out. The guy in black is most likely on of the British that got the second door open.

(The guy in white is clearly talking Swedish in the begining before talking to the guy in black t-shirt.)

[chrislarsson]

A lot of people are blaming the pilot and crappy One-Two-Go. But after reading the most recent reports, I think Phuket Airport has a fair share of the responsibility. I can think of three major strikes:

1. 3 out of 6 weather detection systems were not operating at the time of the crash. Pretty serious f***up.

2. The runway is not grooved.

3. The emergency response time was apparently terrible, with firecrews arriving well after the international standard of three minutes. And the victims waiting 45 minutes to be bussed to the terminal is absurd. There is absolutely NO conceivable excuse for that.

What I find really disturbing is that in all likelihood these issues will not be fully addressed, as the Thai government will do everything it can to protect Phuket's reputation as a safe tourist destination. A shoddy airport will not attract the wealthy tourists they so desire.

1. This piece of information was released by the Thai authorities. Why would they do that if they are doing everything to cover the accident up? Besides a windshear alert system is not an international aviation standard requirement.

2. I thought most runways were not grooved, although most major ones are. Suvarnabhumi is not, and neither was the one in Sao Paolo, which had a bad accident recently (an aircraft failed to stop on the runway causing almost 200 deaths in July). They will groove it now.

Anyway, how can this be the blame for an accident where a plane hit the run-way without landing gear?

3. If this is the case, and maybe it is, there will surely be a lot of cristism in media due to this in the next few weeks. So far there haven't been any critisism, but some praise:

'Martin Carpenter, a consular volunteer from the British community in Phuket, praised the response of the emergency services. "Since the tsunami, whenever disasters happen in Phuket they are very well prepared," he said.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...7/wcrash117.xml

Edited September 19, 2007 by chrislarsson

[Mid]

So far there haven't been any critisism

there's plenty ,

links in this thread ...................................

[chrislarsson]

So far there haven't been any critisism

there's plenty ,

links in this thread ...................................

Hmmm...where? There's plenty of everything in this thread, much of which is based on emotions rather than reason.

[Mid]

People have angrily asked why the airport remained open in such terrible weather condition and why was it not closed for any landing whatsoever.

the Question .................

[MrOzark]

My Humble 2 cents on heroes:

I don't think anyone (except the ego-laden) considers themselves a

hero and knows that ceremonies, hugs and visits to the hospital

are ways for the grateful to show appreciation.

Most people that do heroic things say they are doing what anyone

else would do in a similar situation.

They see a need and they fill it. It's something that makes sense to do

and they don't change into a cape or say something 'heroic' in a deep voice first.

Perhaps anyone NOT going back into a burning building or airplane or bus

that they just escaped from is in a state of shock or a million other things

could prevent them. Self preservation is a healthy and normal human instinct.

I believe the concept of hero comes more from the emotion of gratitude

as experienced by others then by the act itself. Sure it's fantastic that you

saved a life but it doesn't always make you bad if you don't.

[Mid]

Pilot was 'not ordered to land'

Thu, September 20, 2007 : Last updated 0:10 hours

The Aeronautical Radio of Thailand (Aerothai) yesterday dismissed reports that a son of the Indonesian pilot of the fatal One-Two-Go flight said his father was ordered to land at Phuket Airport before the plane crashed. Published on September 20, 2007

Aerothai executive vice president Kumtorn Sirikorn said landing was always the pilot's decision and it was impossible that air traffic controllers anywhere in the world could order a pilot to land against his will.

Smith Thammasaroj, chairman of the National Disaster Warning Centre, also rejected the claim reportedly made by a son of late pilot Arief Mulyadi, saying that the decision absolutely lay with the pilots.

"Air traffic controllers merely provide information and pilots make their own decisions," he said.

Smith told reporters he thought the blame would eventually fall on the pilot, rather than technical faults at the airport or on the plane.

"The landing gear was kept up. That reflects he realised the weather was not suitable for landing. He was a bit slow with his second thoughts," he said.

snip

nationmultimedia.com

[jeebusjones]

1. This piece of information was released by the Thai authorities. Why would they do that if they are doing everything to cover the accident up? Besides a windshear alert system is not an international aviation standard requirement.

2. I thought most runways were not grooved, although most major ones are. Suvarnabhumi is not, and neither was the one in Sao Paolo, which had a bad accident recently (an aircraft failed to stop on the runway causing almost 200 deaths in July). They will groove it now.

Anyway, how can this be the blame for an accident where a plane hit the run-way without landing gear?

3. If this is the case, and maybe it is, there will surely be a lot of cristism in media due to this in the next few weeks. So far there haven't been any critisism, but some praise:

'Martin Carpenter, a consular volunteer from the British community in Phuket, praised the response of the emergency services. "Since the tsunami, whenever disasters happen in Phuket they are very well prepared," he said.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...7/wcrash117.xml

1. In all fairness, I didn't say they would cover anything up. I just don't think some crucial issues will be fully addressed. The pilot is a pretty convenient scapegoat at the moment, all the more so because he comes from a country with one of the worst safety records in the world.

2. True, this didn't effect this particular incident. But Phuket is a fairly major airport in a country that considers itself to be the aviation hub of Asia. The airport in Sao Paolo was repeatedly criticized prior to the crash for being a dangerous place to land during poor weather, so I'm not sure why you mentioned it.

Even if something didn't directly contribute to the crash, an incident such as this should be a pretty strong incentive to improve safety wherever possible.

[Johpa]

The pilot is a pretty convenient scapegoat at the moment, all the more so because he comes from a country with one of the worst safety records in the world.

Uh, if there is a choice between blaming a pilot or blaming authorities or aircraft manufacturers, the long term trend in the aviation world has always been to go with blaming the pilot regardless of country of origin.