Sex Tourist

[pnustedt]

I am 28 years married to the same Japanese woman, and I never had a divorce.

What about you?

I have 2 grown-up daughters, university educated in Japan and Canada...

What about you?

I give 80 percent of my salary to my wife since 28 years and never failed to support financially my wife for even a single month, she takes care about everything, and she has our family credit-card and knows all about my salary and my savings.

What about you?

I live together in the same house with my mother in law, sharing the same rooms since over 30 years.

What about you?

In our office I am the only man sitting next to 5 women (3 Japanese, 2 Europeans), one woman is even higher ranking than I am.... Why not? Never any quarrel since over 12 years since using these office rooms....

What about you?

Of course, my wife is also mentioned as a co-owner of our condominium here in Thailand.

What about you?

Hate campaigns against females? Reading to much manga (Japanese comics)?

Begs, as you see above, I am working to support my family (especially my wife) and I really have no time to read comics....

I wonder your reply to my questions...

Sounds like you're under some pretty unhealthy domination to me

[fatter than harry]

You share the same room with your mother-in-law? is that allowed?

[Begs]

I give 80 percent of my salary to my wife since 28 years and never failed to support financially my wife for even a single month, she takes care about everything, and she has our family credit-card and knows all about my salary and my savings.

What about you?

I am not giving your wife 80% of my earnings!

[splitlid]

with the mother-in-law for 30 years and the wife for 28 years.........

ummmmm.so you were dating the mother in law first and then fell for the daughter??

or are you all living in an open relationship kinda thing???

[denny59]

Hmmmmm,,,You need to definately make some changes in your life stud..

Sounds like a very BORING life I must say.. You need to get a new life..

[TingTawng]

Yohan, I feel sorry for you mate....I say that because I know very well the situation you've been in for 28 years (if that's really true).

When I said I've been to Japan before, I had. You see, I was also married to a Japanese woman, and lived the kind of life you have been living, but for just 2.5 years (9 months staying at the in-laws) - now separated.

I know how regimented marriage is in Japan. I know that salarymen hand over their entire earnings to the missus. She then gives him back some pocket money. And mother-in-laws? This is just my personal experience, but they are absolute battle-axes over in Japan (not just my own....I've heard of MIL's employing private detectives to spy on their daughter's husband, MIL's sending back birthday presents to the sender because the present wasn't expensive enough, MIL's disowning their son/daughter if they choose to marry someone who simply is in the wrong job (and when I mean wrong job, it might be nurse instead of doctor) - your basic nightmare). This isn't to even mention the passive-agressive nature of Japanese mother-in-laws. You lived with one for 30 years??

Now that I have experience of dating Thai women, I see a big difference between Japanese and Thai. The biggest difference I found was that Thai people don't segregate "tatemae" (surface behaviour) and "honne" (true feelings) to the degree Japanese do. For sure, everybody does this to a degree, but Japanese do it to the ultimate degree ( and if there's one group of people you can generalise about, it certainly is the Japanese - they are a homogenous, mono-cultured race). Also, in my experience, I found many marriages in Japan were dead.....people role-playing, but there was little closeness. I reached this conclusion looking at the in-laws, seeing many Japanese friends' marriages (and they intimated to me that this was a normal thing in Japan when we raised the issue....everybody has a role to play, and that's it), and my own marriage. Who wants that? Not me. Part of my problem was my wife lied about wanting to live abroad, so my 2-week stint in Japan (for the wedding ceremony) turned into 2.5 years there.

Anyway, you seemed to have escaped Japan (you say you've been working in Thailand a long time)....probably a good thing.

[elsie]

I could not be happier the Darling is leaving Tokyo for good.. look what life in Japan has done to our friend here..

Anyway, good observation from splitlid. I'm curious about it as well.

[Yohan]

You share the same room with your mother-in-law? is that allowed?

I wrote - same rooms - and not - same room -

TingTawng:

Thank you for your good posting,

I have no problem here in Japan, and yes, I was living in the house of my mother-in-law 30 years ago during my first visit, and I married in Europe my Japanese wife, and marriage registration in Japan was done 28 years ago. Now we all are living in the same house, using the same rooms....

Some misunderstandings, I never worked in Thailand, but my wife and I will retire here (with some regular visits to Japan) and we visited Thailand many many times - But we both have no intention to escape from Japan for always.....

Not all Japanese are the same, because they are of homogeneous race, and not all Thai are the same, but Thais are also, compared to many Asian races, very homogeneous, and not all Japanese mothers-in-law are bad, and on the other side, not all Thai parents like the idea that their daughter will marry a foreigner.

We came to Japan to live there...by my opinion much better than in Europe. I do not know exactly, why your marriage failed. For sure, Japan is not an easy country for most foreigners to live there for a longer time.

-----

Some people (some men, but also some women) find it funny on this forum, that I give 80 percent of my salary to my wife.

I think, it depends what the woman is looking for.....

Some like the wild life with men (talking a lot, 20 hours for fukc for free of charge, then kicked out) -

but there are women, who are looking for a long term relationship.

A time ago a woman wrote something about men here on this forum, considering them as rude and drunken foreign bastards....while hanging out in bars.....

A man told me, he feels so sorry about a woman, who married an alcoholic and who left her with nothing after 7 years.....

This thread is called SEX TOURIST....

Well, ladies and gentlemen, this and such problems are not my problem, why should I care?

So I am now cold-hearted and weird.......

[elsie]

A time ago a woman wrote something about men here on this forum, considering them as rude and drunken foreign bastards....while hanging out in bars.....

..............

So I am now cold-hearted and weird.......

That'd be my statement. As I said some time after that, my friend, I believe I'm entitled to call whoever harasses me that way. You can't just pick a tiny part of my statement and drop all context just to suit you. I didn't call every man on earth a bastard out of the blue, man. There were situations.

Or perhaps you missed this post?

And yes, you are cold-hearted and bloody weird.

[RooBoy]

Yohan, is your wifes name Yoko?

[konangrit]

Oh, no.

[TingTawng]

Yohan, Idon't know about cold-hearted and weird, but your words remind of so many other long-term gaijin in Japan - full of logical disconnect, half-statements, half-hearted beliefs, etc. You all sing from the same hymn-sheet - you totally deny the mono-culture that is Japan, keen to find any exception to (inadvertently) prove the rule. I don't know if it's denial or you've truly "turned Japanese".....I guess it's the human nature of trying to convince ourselves that the choices we made in life were for the best.

I guess black is white if you really want it to be.

[ThaiGirlTeen]

Yohan's turning Japanese

I think he's turning Japanese

I really think so.

[Gazza]

Yohan's turning Japanese

I think he's turning Japanese

I really think so.

Thanks for reminding me of that song. Now I can't get it out of my head!

[Yohan]

Yohan, Idon't know about cold-hearted and weird, but your words remind of so many other long-term gaijin in Japan - full of logical disconnect, half-statements, half-hearted beliefs, etc. You all sing from the same hymn-sheet - you totally deny the mono-culture that is Japan, keen to find any exception to (inadvertently) prove the rule. I don't know if it's denial or you've truly "turned Japanese".....I guess it's the human nature of trying to convince ourselves that the choices we made in life were for the best. 

I guess black is white if you really want it to be.

I never said, Japan is not a mono-culture, indeed it is 99 percent *Japanese*

So you cannot expect, if you come as a foreigner into Japan (Thailand is also a mono-culture by the way), that the locals will do, what you expect from them. This is especially true, if you enter Japan (or Thailand) without enough financial resources.

Not only Japanese families are sceptical about a foreign husband for their daughters, same is also true with the Thai....

We do not talk here about the poor families with the daughter as a bar-girl and the husband as a sex-tourist falling in love, but about well-off Thai families. Ask a RICH Thai family, if they do always agree with a foreign husband for her daughter. Especially if the foreign husband has nothing more to offer except himself.....I wonder.....

About marriage in Japan, as a foreign husband you are expected to earn at least yen 500.000,- (clearly over usd 4500,-) after tax to support your family, and you should be able to communicate fluently in Japanese, spoken and written, and you have to accept the permanent presence of your wife's family around you - if you cannot accept this, you should reconsider your marriage.

About Thailand and about Japan, indeed, our Thai friends are often very very similar in their way of thinking.... it might be wrong by US-norm or European norm, but why should they change their way of life in their own country in Asia?

It is totally wrong to expect, that your Japanese wife will come with you overseas and will adjust to your style of life and forget about her Japanese roots.

I am not surprised about the failure of your marriage.

Maybe this is a cold-hearted advice, but it is better to study first about what might happen to you in Asian countries... if you cannot accept that mono-culture-way of life, then better to stay away. To complain is no good solution.

You made a good point, by asking me, if I am a -truly turned Japanese-

I think, I am....I had my first Chinese girlfriend 1969, visiting Far East since 1972, and living among Japanese since 1976 - I never came back to Europe since...

Yes, there are other foreigners (gaijin) living in Japan, and as you noticed correctly, they are sharing my opinion. I know some of them living there since over 40 years.....all of them with Japanese wives and I do not know about a divorce of one of my friends...

I understand, that this is all wrong in the eyes of some foreigners, but if you decide to live in Japan or Thailand, then it is you, the foreigner, who should adjust to the local situation...This includes your daily family life as well.

[elsie]

You haven't talked about your stupid accusation towards me, my friend. And if you have some free time, please also explain why you brought it up here at all. I'm kind of curious.

[TingTawng]

Yohan, why do you think divorce is necessarily a bad thing? To be honest, it's probably the best thing that happened to me since I married

It's far worse to be trapped in a miserable life.

If you accept that foriegners should blindly "become Japanese" (or Thai in Thailand) and except all that they see, as you say here:-

I understand, that this is all wrong in the eyes of some foreigners, but if you decide to live in Japan or Thailand, then it is you, the foreigner, who should adjust to the local situation...

......then you must hold Japanese/Thai people to the same standard.....but clearly you do not:-

It is totally wrong to expect, that your Japanese wife will come with you overseas and will adjust to your style of life...

Now, this is perhaps the clearest contradiction/double standard I have seen!

About marriage in Japan, as a foreign husband you are expected to earn at least yen 500.000,- (clearly over usd 4500,-) after tax to support your family

You're kidding right? That's 6,000,000 yen per year. After tax? Not in my experience.....where do you live, Ginza?

, and you should be able to communicate fluently in Japanese, spoken and written,

Again, not in my experience. Most Japanese were perfectly happy with my Japanese level (comfortably conversational)....in fact, many were a little put-off by gaijin who were proficient (I've heard many Thai people also are a little disconcerted by farang who are fluent in Thai).

.....and you have to accept the permanent presence of your wife's family around you

Maybe for you.

Yohan, you have to accept that you are making rules here and they are based on your own experience.

(and your snide remarks about a marriage that ends in divorce is a "failure".....there are many marriages that remain marriages that are failures too....)

[Khun Larry]

99% of the men who live in Thailand are sex tourists of some type and the ones who claim not to be are liars or hypocrites.

I'm not saying that this many men pay outright for sex; Many are too tight with a penny to do it the easy way, however, they are here for the sex or love or female attention that they can't get elsewhere.

The 99% figure seems a little low, 99.7% by my rough count.

Also, surely many of the sex tourists have girlfriends, wives or female attention etc. in farangland.

[igotworms]

So you cannot expect, if you come as a foreigner into Japan (Thailand is also a mono-culture by the way), that the locals will do, what you expect from them. This is especially true, if you enter Japan (or Thailand) without enough financial resources.

Monoculture....

I think the muslims in the far south or the hill tribes in north would have something to say about that. Or the Chinese-Thais for that matter.

[Yohan]

1-

Yohan, why do you think divorce is necessarily a bad thing?

2-

I understand, that this is all wrong in the eyes of some foreigners, but if you decide to live in Japan or Thailand, then it is you, the foreigner, who should adjust to the local situation

......then you must hold Japanese/Thai people to the same standard.....but clearly you do not

3-

It is totally wrong to expect, that your Japanese wife will come with you overseas and will adjust to your style of life...

Now, this is perhaps the clearest contradiction/double standard I have seen! 

4-

About marriage in Japan, as a foreign husband you are expected to earn at least yen 500.000,- (clearly over usd 4500,-) after tax to support your family

You're kidding right? That's 6,000,000 yen per year. After tax? Not in my experience.....where do you live, Ginza?

5-

and you should be able to communicate fluently in Japanese, spoken and written

Again, not in my experience. Most Japanese were perfectly happy with my Japanese level (comfortably conversational)....in fact, many were a little put-off by gaijin who were proficient (I've heard many Thai people also are a little disconcerted by farang who are fluent in Thai).

6-

and you have to accept the permanent presence of your wife's family around you

Maybe for you.

Yohan, you have to accept that you are making rules here and they are based on your own experience. 

(and your snide remarks about a marriage that ends in divorce is a "failure".....there are many marriages that remain marriages that are failures too....)

1-

As far as I can read back, I never said, divorce is a bad thing....

But I said, if you study the situation carefully before you accept marriage, you might avoid disappointment with many international marriages.

2-

I do, in my own family we have the best example, my younger daughter did not like the life in Japan. She understood, she cannot change the situation here and she moved to Canada and married an US-citizen. Now living in the USA.

If you think, Japan is not the right place for you, better move out!

3-

Up to you, what you think.... but your marriage failed in Japan (less than 3 years), and my one is still very OK (over 28 years)

Some problems you mentioned after your marriage should not be unexpected for you. Again to close your eyes about that and to complain that your former wife was a liar, is not a good solution in Japan (same in Thailand.....)

4-

I am not kidding, yen 500.000,- /monthly- - I am living in Tokyo, Shinagawa.

Some people here on this forum are making fun out of me, because I give 80 percent of my salary to my wife....yes, this is about, what I am earning (I consider myself still on the very low end of the middle class) and I give about yen 400.000,- to my wife, and keep yen 100.000,- for my hobbies (like radio-amateur, motor-cycle, classical music and so on)

5-

What means *comfortably conversational*? Some spoken language?

Good knowledge of the Japanese language for the foreigner living long-term in Japan is required - might be, that some naive Japanese do not like that - no need to consider them.

6-

Yohan, you have to accept that you are making rules here and they are based on your own experience.

Yes, I accept that I am making rules here and they are based on my own experience living in Japan during the last 30 years.....

[Yohan]

So you cannot expect, if you come as a foreigner into Japan (Thailand is also a mono-culture by the way), that the locals will do, what you expect from them. This is especially true, if you enter Japan (or Thailand) without enough financial resources.

Monoculture....

I think the muslims in the far south or the hill tribes in north would have something to say about that. Or the Chinese-Thais for that matter.

What about comparing Thailand with Malaysia?

Malaysia is a multi-racial society......not a mono-culture....

about 60 percent Malay

about 30 percent Chinese

about 10 percent Indians and others

The 30 percent Chinese have a lot to say there in Malaysia.....

but Thailand?

As far as I know

93 percent ethnic Thai including Thai-Chinese, who do not claim ethnic separation from the Thai - very much mixed up

5 percent Thai-Muslim (not ethnic Thai, in former Malay provinces)

2 percent others.....(hill-tribes...and so on...)

I wonder, with how many members these 7 percent are represented in the Thai government and in other government related organisations.

I would not call Thailand a multi-racial society.

[meemiathai]

are making fun out of me, because I give 80 percent of my salary to my wife

I am not. I like people who treat their wives nicely.

[Yohan]

Yohan, is your wifes name Yoko?

No, you are mistaken us maybe with somebody else.

There are about 15 different writings for the name YOKO, but my wife's first name is

和美

and not

陽子

洋子

庸子

[meemiathai]

And in chinese(cantonese), they are pronounced as:

wo mei,

yeung chi

yeung chi

yung chi.

How to say in Japanese?

How strange that there are so many chinese words in japanese but with different pronounciations.

[TingTawng]

if you study the situation carefully before you accept marriage, you might avoid disappointment with many international marriages.

Hmmm - you also have to accept that people change, often unexpectedly. You are assuming people never change and want the same things year after year.

Some of my thoughts on this:-

- It's not just culture that is different, but also expectations. I think many Japanese people have low expectations of marriage (simply exist, earn money, sleep at weekends, don't need good communication with wife/husband etc). Many westerners have much higher expectations: they want an "involved" relationship that means your partner also being like a close friend to you, not just a role-playing spouse. Often Japanese people suddenly change when they become married and move into role-playing spouse mode.

- As you are well aware, the most likely time for divorce to happen in Japan is when the husband retires from working. From this point, he has reached his sell-by date and is deemed worthless (of course it is his wife who initiates the divorce). This is an indication of the level of "role-playing" in Japan. Is this something gaijin should be aware of?

- Unless you know your wife 100%, you must trust her on matters that you may not know her very well (everybody has their secrets). If she betrays that trust, then you can find that you've entered into the kind of marriage you wouldn't do if you knew the full facts (which is what happened to me). There are always "blind spots" in which you can only find out the truth once you've passed the rubicon and made the commitment.

I would say my marriage was a total failure (not just a normal failure ) - but at least it didn't drag on for more years.....I've been happy after the separation and I hear my ex is happier too.

[Yohan]

if you study the situation carefully before you accept marriage, you might avoid disappointment with many international marriages.

- As you are well aware, the most likely time for divorce to happen in Japan is when the husband retires from working.

......... This is an indication of the level of "role-playing" in Japan. Is this something gaijin should be aware of?

- Unless you know your wife 100%, you must trust her on matters...................

You made some good statement here.....

100 percent.....there is no 100 percent....there is always some risk with every marriage....In Japan also of course (and other Asian countries, too)

I think however, the risk is lower as there is something like rules, which are respected. (I do not think, role-playing is the correct word for it)

In Europe and USA the risk is higher - there are no rules at all....

For me personally this is an advantage about Asia and a reason to look for an Asian wife, but some other man might think different.

To argue with Asian people requires much more time and patience, my own Japanese wife is no exception after so many years living together.

To have some influence over a Japanese family, you must have some acceptable earnings as a foreigner....otherwise they will not listen to you as a foreigner....and therefore in some important points like retirement, that is I, only I and not my wife, not my mother-in-law or father-in-law or whoever, who decide where to live.....

I decided to move out to Thailand and bought already the condominium in Jomtien.

I did not ask my wife to join....she has to come with me and that is it.

(not because of me, but because her parents already told her, she has to go with me....)

Complicated?

If you think, it is complicated, then you are better move out....OK, you did it, and I think better for you, as you never had any intention to live in Japan.

[Yohan]

And in chinese(cantonese), they are pronounced as:

wo mei,

yeung chi

yeung chi

yung chi.

How to say in Japanese?

How strange that there are so many chinese words in japanese but with different pronounciations.

wo mei = kazumi

yeung chi = yoko

yung chi = yoko

about 15 different way to write the YO of YOKO as a female first name...

and these all are first female names, called KAZUMI, also about 15 possibilities to write it.....

一美

和実

一実

maybe 70 percent of the Chinese characters are the same, pronunciation is often totally different, especially names are complicated.

Meaning is also often not the same, so you have to learn a little bit....

信

in Chinese= letter in Japanese=truth, faith

手紙

in Japanese=letter (tegami) in Chinese=toilet-paper....

and so on...

I think, Chinese and Japanese are easier than Thai. Thai is difficult, as there is no pictorial writing, so if you are not a native speaker of Thai, you are never sure, what this word really means....

Are we now off topics? I think so....back to the topic!

(traditional Chinese-Japanese)

SEX TOURIST　

買春観光客

baishunkankoukyaku

GIRL FOR SEX

売春婦

baishunfu

[meemiathai]

Thanks Yohan!

Are we now off topics? I think so....back to the topic

Yes. But don't you think it is getting a bit boring?

買春観光客 -- has got exactly the same meaning in chinese!

[Totster]

This would be great if I could view the characters on my computer...!!

[Yohan]

Thanks Yohan!

Are we now off topics? I think so....back to the topic

Yes. But don't you think it is getting a bit boring?

買春観光客 -- has got exactly the same meaning in chinese!

Sometimes, older people also write

売笑婦

baishoufu

and what is the pronunciation in Cantonese Chinese?

It is a very long time ago, when I used Cantonese Chinese in Singapore, around 1969 to 1972, but I still have my old textbook.

Boring?

Some members would like to see the Characters on their computers....

Well, they need some Chinese/Japanese operating system, I would say.....