40k Baht Per Month For Non-o

[Kruang]

It was time to renew my Non-O visa, so after reading the latest police order I decided to use my employment income rather than the 400k in the bank I used last year (the police order says that if you if you have 40k income per month you should be using that, even if you're eligible to use the 400k bank deposit).

Big mistake! After submitting my paperwork (tax docs, pay slips for the last 3 months, statement from my employer, etc.) to my local immigration office, they sent the paperwork off to Bangkok and gave me a 30 day extension stamp. When I returned to my local office after 30 days, I was informed that Bangkok had denied my application, and they gave me the dreaded "visa denied, must leave the Kingdom in 7 days" stamp. Say what?

The grounds for denying my application were that my tax documents for last year did not show 40k income per month for each month of the year. I started working in July last year, so even though I had income at or above the 40k level for the past 12 months, and the visa was (obviously) for the next 12 months (not the last 12), it didn't seem to matter. I had paid tax on all of my income for the current year, but the tax paperwork that immigration is willing to accept does not get prepared until the end of the year.

The immigration officer in the local office didn't seem to have a clue about this requirement.

[apalink_thailand]

It was time to renew my Non-O visa, so after reading the latest police order I decided to use my employment income rather than the 400k in the bank I used last year (the police order says that if you if you have 40k income per month you should be using that, even if you're eligible to use the 400k bank deposit).

Big mistake! After submitting my paperwork (tax docs, pay slips for the last 3 months, statement from my employer, etc.) to my local immigration office, they sent the paperwork off to Bangkok and gave me a 30 day extension stamp. When I returned to my local office after 30 days, I was informed that Bangkok had denied my application, and they gave me the dreaded "visa denied, must leave the Kingdom in 7 days" stamp. Say what?

The grounds for denying my application were that my tax documents for last year did not show 40k income per month for each month of the year. I started working in July last year, so even though I had income at or above the 40k level for the past 12 months, and the visa was (obviously) for the next 12 months (not the last 12), it didn't seem to matter. I had paid tax on all of my income for the current year, but the tax paperwork that immigration is willing to accept does not get prepared until the end of the year.

The immigration officer in the local office didn't seem to have a clue about this requirement.

I am no expert on Non-O visas but to my knowlege, you need a B visa to be able to work and that your income (depending on what part of the world you come from) ususally must exceed 50K a month. Isnt the O visa for retirement and hence if retired, you are not supposed to be working? Seem logical to me. At least, this is how I undertsand the situation, unless I am completely clueless, which is likely when it comes to figuring out Visa laws. Anyhow, best of luck to you.

[Kruang]

I am no expert on Non-O visas but to my knowlege, you need a B visa to be able to work and that your income (depending on what part of the world you come from) ususally must exceed 50K a month. Isnt the O visa for retirement and hence if retired, you are not supposed to be working? Seem logical to me. At least, this is how I undertsand the situation, unless I am completely clueless, which is likely when it comes to figuring out Visa laws. Anyhow, best of luck to you.

I'm married to a Thai citizen, so can work on a Non immigrant O visa. Should have made that clear. The 40k per month requirement is for the so-called marriage visa.

[Lite Beer]

It was time to renew my Non-O visa, so after reading the latest police order I decided to use my employment income rather than the 400k in the bank I used last year (the police order says that if you if you have 40k income per month you should be using that, even if you're eligible to use the 400k bank deposit).

Big mistake! After submitting my paperwork (tax docs, pay slips for the last 3 months, statement from my employer, etc.) to my local immigration office, they sent the paperwork off to Bangkok and gave me a 30 day extension stamp. When I returned to my local office after 30 days, I was informed that Bangkok had denied my application, and they gave me the dreaded "visa denied, must leave the Kingdom in 7 days" stamp. Say what?

The grounds for denying my application were that my tax documents for last year did not show 40k income per month for each month of the year. I started working in July last year, so even though I had income at or above the 40k level for the past 12 months, and the visa was (obviously) for the next 12 months (not the last 12), it didn't seem to matter. I had paid tax on all of my income for the current year, but the tax paperwork that immigration is willing to accept does not get prepared until the end of the year.

The immigration officer in the local office didn't seem to have a clue about this requirement.

I am no expert on Non-O visas but to my knowlege, you need a B visa to be able to work and that your income (depending on what part of the world you come from) ususally must exceed 50K a month. Isnt the O visa for retirement and hence if retired, you are not supposed to be working? Seem logical to me. At least, this is how I undertsand the situation, unless I am completely clueless, which is likely when it comes to figuring out Visa laws. Anyhow, best of luck to you.

The op was renewing his extension based on marriage to a Thai lady. Nothing to do with working or retirement.

Bad luck and my comiserations to him.

[lopburi3]

1. Do you have the 400k in bank three months? I would talk with immigration about using that for your extension of stay. It might require an exit now to obtain a new entry but would be worth asking about. The "last years" tax payment seems to have become the standard since the end of tax year.

2. If you need to use multi entry non immigrant O visa entry for awhile Penang is currently the best place to obtain at this time. Marriage certificate, copy of wife ID card and some bank information should do it - but would advise also having copy of home register and a short letter from wife asking that visa be issued. Last two items are sometimes asked for at other Consulates and best to be prepared.

[TerryLH]

The 7 days to leave thing is because they've denied the app, and you no longer have an application pending. You can reapply within that 7 day period and get another 30 days 'under consideration'.

I had that happen to me years ago in CM, but for the lack of some document, not a money issue. Once I resubmitted my application, all was in order.

Terry

[Kruang]

lopburi3, thanks as always for your useful and practical advice. Immigration has allowed me to submit another application with additional income documentation for last year, though the local immigration office wouldn't give me another 30 day extension, so I'm operating under a very tight deadline. I may still have to leave the country and apply for a new visa. The cost of doing that is not just the time and expense (and starting the whole visa process again), but the loss of a work permit, which is a huge inconvenience not only for me but for my employer as well.

Missing some arbitrary piece of documentation in your application such as photos of your house is a trivial matter that can be annoying but easy to fix. But when the income documentation requirements are not made clear, and are not even understood by local immigration officials, the implications can be serious.

I hope this thread will save someone else the headache that my family and I and my employer have had with this.

[Kruang]

The 7 days to leave thing is because they've denied the app, and you no longer have an application pending. You can reapply within that 7 day period and get another 30 days 'under consideration'.

I had that happen to me years ago in CM, but for the lack of some document, not a money issue. Once I resubmitted my application, all was in order.

Terry

I thought that too. When I submitted a new application a few days after the first was denied, I expected another 30 day "under consideration" stamp. The local immigration office refused to do that, even though I had paid another 1,900 baht fee for the second application. Maybe policies have changed.

[Tafia]

I am no expert on Non-O visas but to my knowlege, you need a B visa to be able to work and that your income (depending on what part of the world you come from) ususally must exceed 50K a month. Isnt the O visa for retirement and hence if retired, you are not supposed to be working? Seem logical to me. At least, this is how I undertsand the situation, unless I am completely clueless, which is likely when it comes to figuring out Visa laws. Anyhow, best of luck to you.

I'm married to a Thai citizen, so can work on a Non immigrant O visa. Should have made that clear. The 40k per month requirement is for the so-called marriage visa.

Are you not able to use the proof of income (65000B) to gain a marriage to Thai extension?

[Maestro]

...The grounds for denying my application were that my tax documents for last year did not show 40k income per month for each month of the year. I started working in July last year, so even though I had income at or above the 40k level for the past 12 months, and the visa was (obviously) for the next 12 months (not the last 12), it didn't seem to matter. I had paid tax on all of my income for the current year, but the tax paperwork that immigration is willing to accept does not get prepared until the end of the year.

The immigration officer in the local office didn't seem to have a clue about this requirement.

While immigration offices seem to be satisfied with seeing only 3 months income proof when it is the Thai wife’s income there have been reports that for the foreigner’s income they want to see 12 months.

I wondered some months ago over what period the “average monthly income” of 40k stipulated in the rules was meant to be calculated and Meadish Sweetballs gave a more complete translation from the original Thai text in this post:

I believe I can help with the translation from Thai. Here is how I would put it:

In case of marriage with a Thai woman: either of the parties, or both of them together, has to have an average income of at least 40.000 baht per month, the average calculated on a per-year basis.

This means that the income can be either the wife's, the husband's, or their combined income. The average monthly income is calculated over one year.

As in Sunbelt's example, the word 'average' is clearly used.

รายได้เฉลี่ยทั้งปี means 'average income throughout the entire year', and เฉลี่ย specifically means 'average'.

It should be noted though, that there is no mention of when the yearly period starts. I would presume it is based on the date of application being the last day, and 365 days prior to that is the first day, but that is just my own presumption and may be incorrect, and unfortunately the lack of info in this regard may leave room for varying interpretation by individual Immigration Officers.

In your case it looks like immigration head office wanted to see proof for the last calendar year (January - December 2006) and was not satisfied with the last 12 months (October 2006 – September 2007), that is if you did submit income proof for the latter period.

--

Maestro

[Kruang]

Maestro, the issue wasn't just that immigration wanted to see proof of income for the past 12 months, they wanted to see proof of tax paid on that income. I was happy to provide that, but the only documentation they will accept is the annual statement of tax paid with receipt from the revenue department. And that document is only done at the end of the calendar year, so it wasn't available yet for this year.Thus all they were willing to look at was tax documentation from the previous year, which in my case covered only 6 months of employment income.

I was interested in the part of your post where you talked about the average income per month based on the year's income. Immigration told me they wanted to see a minimum of 40k income per month for each month of the year.

[samran]

Maestro, the issue wasn't just that immigration wanted to see proof of income for the past 12 months, they wanted to see proof of tax paid on that income. I was happy to provide that, but the only documentation they will accept is the annual statement of tax paid with receipt from the revenue department. And that document is only done at the end of the calendar year, so it wasn't available yet for this year.Thus all they were willing to look at was tax documentation from the previous year, which in my case covered only 6 months of employment income.

I was interested in the part of your post where you talked about the average income per month based on the year's income. Immigration told me they wanted to see a minimum of 40k income per month for each month of the year.

Sunbelt has mentioned it before (99% on this), but I beleive there is some sort of interim document that you can get from the local Revenue Department stating the tax paid to date (not that you will owe anything). Assuming that your employer is deducting your salary on a pay-as-you-go basis (ie month per month) and paying it straight to the government, there should be some sort document that covers the year to date.

[tijnebijn]

Maestro, the issue wasn't just that immigration wanted to see proof of income for the past 12 months, they wanted to see proof of tax paid on that income. I was happy to provide that, but the only documentation they will accept is the annual statement of tax paid with receipt from the revenue department. And that document is only done at the end of the calendar year, so it wasn't available yet for this year.Thus all they were willing to look at was tax documentation from the previous year, which in my case covered only 6 months of employment income.

I was interested in the part of your post where you talked about the average income per month based on the year's income. Immigration told me they wanted to see a minimum of 40k income per month for each month of the year.

It is very interesting indeed , to read that about the average income .

I and my wife are close to 40k , but still not there , but in the latter months

of the year my wife does make a lot more then 40k , the other months

are still far from there

But good news to hear this , it means we do have an average

of at least 40k a month . But the big question is , does immigration actually accept this ?

[culicine]

Instead of 40K average income over the year, why don't they just state 480K for a 12-month year?

I don't have the 0-visa (considering changing to it from a non-B, but what if my family income is 90K a month, and I need to change jobs (say i have a one month 'break' from working, unsitl i get another job). Are we still ok? Or should I wait until my wife earns 40K a month then retire and stay home and sure the net all day hehe

[Cyberstar]

The grounds for denying my application were that my tax documents for last year did not show 40k income per month for each month of the year....

Maestro, the issue wasn't just that immigration wanted to see proof of income for the past 12 months, they wanted to see proof of tax paid on that income. I was happy to provide that, but the only documentation they will accept is the annual statement of tax paid with receipt from the revenue department...

You are confusing me a bit. Just so even i can understand the situation - could you please tell: Did you - or did you not - submit P.NG.D 91 for the calender year 2006 with your extension application?

[samran]

Maestro, the issue wasn't just that immigration wanted to see proof of income for the past 12 months, they wanted to see proof of tax paid on that income. I was happy to provide that, but the only documentation they will accept is the annual statement of tax paid with receipt from the revenue department. And that document is only done at the end of the calendar year, so it wasn't available yet for this year.Thus all they were willing to look at was tax documentation from the previous year, which in my case covered only 6 months of employment income.

I was interested in the part of your post where you talked about the average income per month based on the year's income. Immigration told me they wanted to see a minimum of 40k income per month for each month of the year.

Sunbelt has mentioned it before (99% on this), but I beleive there is some sort of interim document that you can get from the local Revenue Department stating the tax paid to date (not that you will owe anything). Assuming that your employer is deducting your salary on a pay-as-you-go basis (ie month per month) and paying it straight to the government, there should be some sort document that covers the year to date.

looking around, I think the document I am refering to is the Por Ngor Dor 1, which is the statement of tax paid already in the current year.

[Tywais]

Sunbelt has mentioned it before (99% on this), but I beleive there is some sort of interim document that you can get from the local Revenue Department stating the tax paid to date (not that you will owe anything).

That is correct. My case, though based on work, requires the copy of the 91 form + receipt and a form showing my total salary and taxes paid up to the date I apply for my extension. Since my extension renewal is in May, I have to show proof of paying taxes from January to May.

[Cyberstar]

looking around, I think the document I am refering to is the Por Ngor Dor 1, which is the statement of tax paid already in the current year.

Not exactly. Por Ngor Dor 1 is the form for withholding tax that the employer submits once a month. It goes with an attachment that lists all employees, their salaries and how much tax has been withheld from each one. The form, its attachment and the withheld tax is submitted to RD every month and the employer gets a receipt for the money.

I can't talk for others but for m copies of P.Ng. D. 1 + attachment + receipt served as documentation for the last 3 months tax-payment while P.Ng. D. 91 for the preceding calender year served as tax documentation for that year.

(My extension is similar to OP's - based on marriage and employment in Thailand).

Edited October 17, 2007 by Cyberstar

[TerryLH]

Kruang

It might be of interest to know which immigration office you went to.

Terry

Edited October 18, 2007 by TerryLH

[anonymouse]

Maestro, the issue wasn't just that immigration wanted to see proof of income for the past 12 months, they wanted to see proof of tax paid on that income. I was happy to provide that, but the only documentation they will accept is the annual statement of tax paid with receipt from the revenue department. And that document is only done at the end of the calendar year, so it wasn't available yet for this year.Thus all they were willing to look at was tax documentation from the previous year, which in my case covered only 6 months of employment income.

I was interested in the part of your post where you talked about the average income per month based on the year's income. Immigration told me they wanted to see a minimum of 40k income per month for each month of the year.

It is very interesting indeed , to read that about the average income .

I and my wife are close to 40k , but still not there , but in the latter months

of the year my wife does make a lot more then 40k , the other months

are still far from there

But good news to hear this , it means we do have an average

of at least 40k a month . But the big question is , does immigration actually accept this ?

As far as I'm aware as long as you pay tax on 40k income and show 40,000 going into a bank account every month you should be ok. I don't earn 40k but still pay the tax and I use the same 40k putting it in and taking it out of my account every month.

[sniffdog]

====================================================

so can work on a Non immigrant O visa

====================================================

Is that true? Isn't a non immigrant 'o' a permit to stay only, but need a work permit

to work? Is a 'o' visa sufficient? And can a work permit be obtained with an 'o' instead

of a 'b'.

Edited October 19, 2007 by sniffdog

[Maestro]

No, you cannot work on a non-O visa. You need a work permit to be allowed to work.

--

Maestro

[TerryLH]

You must have a work permit to work legally. With an O visa (Thai wife), you can get a work permit.

With a retirement visa, you cannot work legally.

[Kruang]

You must have a work permit to work legally. With an O visa (Thai wife), you can get a work permit.

With a retirement visa, you cannot work legally.

It is not strictly true that you can't get a work permit with a so-called retirement visa. It's kind of a gray area. About 18 months ago I obtained my first work permit while on a Non-O based on retirement, and the labor department didn't seem to have any problem with it. But the visa in my passport was just marked "Non Immigrant O"; I've heard that some of the stamps are marked "employment prohibited" or words to that effect.

After I received my first work permit I did a bit of research on the topic. Apparently the letter of the law is that a Non-O visa is sufficient for obtaining a work permit. But like so much in Thai immigration law, it comes down to the implementation of the law at any given time. There was certainly a period when the labor department wouldn't grant work permits if your Non-O was based on retirement. But a few weeks ago my local immigration office told me that it wasn't a problem (though I don't regard them as particularly reliable). In any case, it's up to the labor department, not immigration. At the moment, the immigration department really likes the idea of a farang parking 800,000 baht in a Thai bank where he'll earn little or no interest. If he wants to work and pay taxes too, they seem happy to take his money. How long will it be before they find a way to collect taxes on the 800,000 as well?

[RHCP]

On a slightly related subject, I have not seen any comments on what might happen in the future if someone grandfathered under money in the bank option then decides to use the income option this year. Will that person be able to revert back to the bank balance option in the following year if that person is unable to provide evidence of sufficient income?

[Kruang]

On a slightly related subject, I have not seen any comments on what might happen in the future if someone grandfathered under money in the bank option then decides to use the income option this year. Will that person be able to revert back to the bank balance option in the following year if that person is unable to provide evidence of sufficient income?

When I opted for the income option this year I was told that I could not go back to the bank balance option in the future. The more interesting question perhaps is whether the folks who are using the bank balance option this year will still be able to use it next year. With a new government coming it is really impossible to speculate about the future. It's not even a question of whether the laws change; a new minister could make major changes in how the current laws are implemented.

[Tony Clifton]

The immigration officer in the local office didn't seem to have a clue about this requirement.

Story of my life for the last 4 years, the 5th will be the last (in Thailand, I shall remain alive).

Edited October 20, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[victor15]

Maestro, the issue wasn't just that immigration wanted to see proof of income for the past 12 months, they wanted to see proof of tax paid on that income. I was happy to provide that, but the only documentation they will accept is the annual statement of tax paid with receipt from the revenue department. And that document is only done at the end of the calendar year, so it wasn't available yet for this year.Thus all they were willing to look at was tax documentation from the previous year, which in my case covered only 6 months of employment income.

I was interested in the part of your post where you talked about the average income per month based on the year's income. Immigration told me they wanted to see a minimum of 40k income per month for each month of the year.

It is very interesting indeed , to read that about the average income .

I and my wife are close to 40k , but still not there , but in the latter months

of the year my wife does make a lot more then 40k , the other months

are still far from there

But good news to hear this , it means we do have an average

of at least 40k a month . But the big question is , does immigration actually accept this ?

Hi all

I have non immigrant "O", last month I received my yearly visa with a yearly pension (provable) of THB. 360,000 and THB 130,000 in the bank.

together THB 490,000 divided by 12 months is THB 40,833 Over the required THB 40,000 a month.

We were going to use the THB 100,000 in wifes bank account but immigration said don't bother my money as enough.

[tijnebijn]

Maestro, the issue wasn't just that immigration wanted to see proof of income for the past 12 months, they wanted to see proof of tax paid on that income. I was happy to provide that, but the only documentation they will accept is the annual statement of tax paid with receipt from the revenue department. And that document is only done at the end of the calendar year, so it wasn't available yet for this year.Thus all they were willing to look at was tax documentation from the previous year, which in my case covered only 6 months of employment income.

I was interested in the part of your post where you talked about the average income per month based on the year's income. Immigration told me they wanted to see a minimum of 40k income per month for each month of the year.

It is very interesting indeed , to read that about the average income .

I and my wife are close to 40k , but still not there , but in the latter months

of the year my wife does make a lot more then 40k , the other months

are still far from there

But good news to hear this , it means we do have an average

of at least 40k a month . But the big question is , does immigration actually accept this ?

Hi all

I have non immigrant "O", last month I received my yearly visa with a yearly pension (provable) of THB. 360,000 and THB 130,000 in the bank.

together THB 490,000 divided by 12 months is THB 40,833 Over the required THB 40,000 a month.

We were going to use the THB 100,000 in wifes bank account but immigration said don't bother my money as enough.

Thanks for the report Viktor .

Now I know that there are some other routes to acomplish the given extension .

I really appreciate your response , it is helpful and shows it can be done .

[thai4u]

I really dont understand what situation am I right now (!)

I have a non 'O' based on mariage that I got from my country.

now,its going to end in about 3 months.

what I thought to do (with the advice of sunbelt in one of these messeges before 1 year) is before the "non 'O' " finish to go to the tax office and declare on income of 40K a month and of course pay tax for this income.

and thats all..I can show immigration that I have income of 40K a month with the tax documents and get the 1 year visa easily.

No mention for the minimum period beore make the application.

SO WHATS GOING ON? ?