Opening A Chinese Yuan Bank Account?

[paperwerks]

Yesterday, I read that Jim Rogers (the investment Guru/Soros partner who predicted the commodities bull market) is planning on shifting 100% of his dollars into Chinese yuan. He claims, and others have too, that the Yuan will appreciate 3 or 4 times in value compared to the dollar over the next 10 years.

I don't know if the 3x or 4x multiple is correct, but I am 100% sure that the yuan is a better currency than the $USD. I also prefer HK dollars over US dollars even though there is a fixed peg exchange rate presently but don't know if foreigners can open HK dollar accounts.

I would like to open a Chinese yuan account and am willing to fly to HK or Shainghai to do it. However, I thought that this was not possible for foreigners to do. Can you just walk into a bank in Shainghai, open an account, and then send a wire transfer from the USA?

If one can not directly open a yuan account, my other idea was to just open a HK Dollar account in HK and wait (and hope) for the HK currency to be converted to Yuan which is now actively being discussed by the Chinese authorities.

BTW, I do not want to use the Everbank online foreign currency account. I really want to get some savings dollars physically outside of the USA. TIA

[Jingthing]

Easier just to buy Chinese stocks.

[YoungFarangNa]

An easy way to get out of the USD is to buy CurrencyShares ETFs

http://www.currencyshares.com/

[LaoPo]

Yesterday, I read that Jim Rogers (the investment Guru/Soros partner who predicted the commodities bull market) is planning on shifting 100% of his dollars into Chinese yuan. He claims, and others have too, that the Yuan will appreciate 3 or 4 times in value compared to the dollar over the next 10 years.

I don't know if the 3x or 4x multiple is correct, but I am 100% sure that the yuan is a better currency than the $USD. I also prefer HK dollars over US dollars even though there is a fixed peg exchange rate presently but don't know if foreigners can open HK dollar accounts.

I would like to open a Chinese yuan account and am willing to fly to HK or Shainghai to do it. However, I thought that this was not possible for foreigners to do. Can you just walk into a bank in Shainghai, open an account, and then send a wire transfer from the USA?

If one can not directly open a yuan account, my other idea was to just open a HK Dollar account in HK and wait (and hope) for the HK currency to be converted to Yuan which is now actively being discussed by the Chinese authorities.

BTW, I do not want to use the Everbank online foreign currency account. I really want to get some savings dollars physically outside of the USA. TIA

I read Jim Rogers' comments as well.

No, as far as I am informed you can't open a Yuan bank account in China with a foreign passport although I believe there are certain exceptions like people with a work permit, foreign students etc.

Hong Kong is no problem, but it's best you ask the ICBC Bank, one of the largest banks in the world today; they have a branch in New York, so you could ask/contact them as well:

http://www.icbc.com.cn/e_index.jsp

New York Branch:

http://www.icbc.com.cn/new_branch/hwfz/meiguo/en_index.html

PS: please keep us informed, ok ?

Note:

Although the Yuan has appreciated against the $ with some 10% already since July 2005, a 3x or 4x multiple in the next 10 years seems quite bold to me.

But, of course my name isn't Jim Rogers

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

This is an interesting read:

Buffett sees dollar weakness

Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:07am EDT

Maybe have a good look at Korea....?

""We are still negative on the dollar. We bought stocks in companies that are earning their money in other currencies," he told reporters during a visit to Berkshire's Korean cutting tool maker subsidiary, TaeguTec."

From:

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNew...mp;pageNumber=1

LaoPo

[lannarebirth]

Jim Rogers thout Refco was a good place to keep his client's money also. You can't win'em all.

[cclub75]

I read on the website of OCBC China (bank from singapore, has 2 branches in china)

"RMB accounts and deposits are available only for citizens of other countries and citizens of Hong Kong , Macau and Taiwan"

http://www.ocbc.com.cn/html_english/html/p...meDeposits.shtm

[LaoPo]

I read on the website of OCBC China (bank from singapore, has 2 branches in china)

"RMB accounts and deposits are available only for citizens of other countries and citizens of Hong Kong , Macau and Taiwan"

http://www.ocbc.com.cn/html_english/html/p...meDeposits.shtm

Interesting, and to be honest I didn't hear before about this bank but that doesn't say anything of course.

Link:

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=SIN:O39

&

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversea-Chine...ing_Corporation

Cclub75: did you find any %'s for the mentioned Yuan/RMB deposits ?

And, as a side-note, it would be interesting to learn if one (as a non-Mainland-Chinese foreigner) can invest with those accounts/deposits on the mainland Chinese stock markets; don't think so though, apart from the US$ noted 'B' shares in China.

LaoPo

[paperwerks]

I read on the website of OCBC China (bank from singapore, has 2 branches in china)

"RMB accounts and deposits are available only for citizens of other countries and citizens of Hong Kong , Macau and Taiwan"

http://www.ocbc.com.cn/html_english/html/p...meDeposits.shtm

Thanks for all the replies. The currency ETF for jap yen is a possibility, but for this purpose I really want a bank deposit account because it is too easy for me to cash in the ETF in my brokerage account and buy some stock with the proceeds.

I am going to look into this OCBC bank further. It looks like a good alternative for me. It also gets some of my $USD savings outside the USA. Singapore is a place I trust also.

***This is another topic altogether, but there have been currency controls (which means no easy wire transfers out of the USA) before and they might come back again quickly if there was to be a $USD currency crisis, so it is a concern for me albeit is probably very unlikely, but I want to have access to some cash outside of the USA now that I am living in Thai with no plans to go back to the USA.

[Naam]

Jim Rogers thout Refco was a good place to keep his client's money also. You can't win'em all.

besides that Rogers took last year huge losses by shorting financial institutions but at least he has the decency not to claim he foresaw the subprime crisis

[Naam]

I read on the website of OCBC China (bank from singapore, has 2 branches in china)

i understand from the website that deposits are kept with branches of OCBC, China not Singapore.

[Naam]

Yesterday, I read that Jim Rogers (the investment Guru/Soros partner who predicted the commodities bull market) is planning on shifting 100% of his dollars into Chinese yuan. He claims, and others have too, that the Yuan will appreciate 3 or 4 times in value compared to the dollar over the next 10 years.

i don't know about "others" but Jim Rogers never made that claim.

[cclub75]

HSBC in HK seems also to have saving and time deposit accounts in RMB.

http://www.hsbc.com.hk/1/2/hk/banking/rmb#1

Here are interest rates :

<500 000 > 500 000 RMB

1 month 0.5750% 0.5800%

2 months 0.5750% 0.5800%

3 months 0.5750% 0.5800%

6 months 0.7000% 0.7500%

As for OCBC, I try to find out what are the procedures to open an account.

By the way, interest rates are clearly a problem.

Let's summarize :

-RMB will appreciate (against USD)

-but meanwhile, high inflation in China

-and very low interest rates

My point RMB is maybe not the best solution to get out USD, on a short mid term : for instance, AUD could do much better (higher interest rates, lower inflation).

Edited October 25, 2007 by cclub75

[lannarebirth]

Jim Rogers thout Refco was a good place to keep his client's money also. You can't win'em all.

besides that Rogers took last year huge losses by shorting financial institutions but at least he has the decency not to claim he foresaw the subprime crisis

I'm not denigrating the guy, just giving a little balance. Rogers has made an excellent call on the commodities bull market and I give him full credit for doing so early enough that others could benefit.

[LaoPo]

Jim Rogers thout Refco was a good place to keep his client's money also. You can't win'em all.

besides that Rogers took last year huge losses by shorting financial institutions but at least he has the decency not to claim he foresaw the subprime crisis

Jim Rogers is certainly in the picture...(very interesting read actually!)

U.S. "undoubtedly in recession": Jim Rogers

Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:19pm EDT

"LONDON (Reuters) - The United States has entered a recession, according to highly-regarded investor Jim Rogers, who told Britain's Daily Telegraph newspaper on Wednesday he was switching out of the dollar and into yen, the yuan and the Swiss franc."

Continues here:

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL2474133320071024

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

HSBC in HK seems also to have saving and time deposit accounts in RMB.

<a href="http://www.hsbc.com.hk/1/2/hk/banking/rmb#1" target="_blank">http://www.hsbc.com.hk/1/2/hk/banking/rmb#1</a>

But the website says: "Renminbi deposit service is only applicable to HKID cardholders."

LaoPo

[sonicdragon]

Pretty much all banks in HK will offer RMB deposit accounts - I have RMB accounts with Citibank and Wing Hang Bank. Note that it's not easy to transfer RMB from one bank to another - in fact there is no payment system at all - you have to convert to HK$ first. Also, there are currently restrictions on the amount of RMB that you can buy or sell (20,000 per day for banks in HK$) and the only currency you can convert from or to is HK$.

[fletchsmile]

Pretty much all banks in HK will offer RMB deposit accounts - I have RMB accounts with Citibank and Wing Hang Bank. Note that it's not easy to transfer RMB from one bank to another - in fact there is no payment system at all - you have to convert to HK$ first. Also, there are currently restrictions on the amount of RMB that you can buy or sell (20,000 per day for banks in HK$) and the only currency you can convert from or to is HK$.

Yes most banks in HK will do. HSBC, Stan Chart etc also offer CNY a/c s in several big cities in China. Not sure on opening rules tho' for foreigners. HSBC rates above look very poor, am sure there'll be better deals around.

On subject of rates, don't really see why anyone wants the cash, apart from as a settlement account. The Chinese people themselves are starting to shun cash returns given poor rates, and look to equities, which given about 75% of personal assets are supposed to be in low yiled bank accounts, that's some demand sat pending. Also with the Chinese mind-set for speculation and trading, which is becoming easier, combined with predicted GDP rates, I'd much prefer Chinese equities to cash, as someone above mentioned.

[backflip]

"Can you just walk into a bank in Shainghai, open an account, and then send a wire transfer from the USA?"

I don't think so. I believe that you'll need both residence and work permits issued by the Chinese government. I moved from BKK to Shanghai for a couple years, working as a "local hire of a foreign national" - which is different from working as an "expatriate". When it is time to move your cash from RMB to whatever (USD, for example), there are several hoops that you'll need to jump through.

If you're looking for a small investment in RMB, I brought back just over 30,150 RMB, and I'd be happy to trade it to you for $4,000USD. PM me if you are interested.

Edited October 26, 2007 by backflip

[davidm3440]

Another option is to open a global trading account with E-Trade. Once you deposit money into the account you can select the currency to park it in ( beleive there are currently six currencies and one is the yuan ). This account also allows you to trade directly on the Hong Kong exchange ( as well as london, frankfurt, toronto ).

[Captain Ron]

I read on the website of OCBC China (bank from singapore, has 2 branches in china)

"RMB accounts and deposits are available only for citizens of other countries and citizens of Hong Kong , Macau and Taiwan"

<a href="http://www.ocbc.com.cn/html_english/html/p...meDeposits.shtm" target="_blank">http://www.ocbc.com.cn/html_english/html/p...meDeposits.shtm</a>

Thanks for all the replies. The currency ETF for jap yen is a possibility, but for this purpose I really want a bank deposit account because it is too easy for me to cash in the ETF in my brokerage account and buy some stock with the proceeds.

I am going to look into this OCBC bank further. It looks like a good alternative for me. It also gets some of my $USD savings outside the USA. Singapore is a place I trust also.

***This is another topic altogether, but there have been currency controls (which means no easy wire transfers out of the USA) before and they might come back again quickly if there was to be a $USD currency crisis, so it is a concern for me albeit is probably very unlikely, but I want to have access to some cash outside of the USA now that I am living in Thai with no plans to go back to the USA.

JUST BUY GOLD. no need to worry about currency controls/debasement, fraud, insolvency etc. better than cash. Easy to buy sell in Thailand.

[Khun Jean]

Silly me.

I am currently changing some euros to US$ every month. It is quit a bargain.

But i am thinking here on the long term.

The short term getting rid of Bush should help.

[Naam]

Another option is to open a global trading account with E-Trade. Once you deposit money into the account you can select the currency to park it in ( beleive there are currently six currencies and one is the yuan ). This account also allows you to trade directly on the Hong Kong exchange ( as well as london, frankfurt, toronto ).

incorrect information. no CNY trading.

[bowthai]

Another option is to open a global trading account with E-Trade. Once you deposit money into the account you can select the currency to park it in ( beleive there are currently six currencies and one is the yuan ). This account also allows you to trade directly on the Hong Kong exchange ( as well as london, frankfurt, toronto ).

i use etrade and trade hong kong stocks and keep my trading money in hong kong dollars which is as undervalued as the yuan and both currencies are about 40% undervalued versus the dollar.

my hk/china stocks have gone up sometimes as much as 100% i.e. my shares in cnooc have gone from 8.37 to 17.18 in the past 6 months.

my hong kong dollars have been steadily appreciating in value so one gets double the benefits of stock rise and currency appreciation/protection.

look into the h-a discount and stocks not listed on mainland exchanges as sure bets as china now allows mainlanders to buy hong kong stocks which are undervalued versus their shanghai or shenzhen listed counterparts plus some of the biggest companies ike china mobile and petrochina and cnooc are not listed on the mainland exchanges so they can now be bought by mainlanders.

i also have fxy the yen currencyshare etf as well as a yen deposit account with everbank so am betting on the carry trade unwinding soon.

A Booster Shot for the Yen

http://72.35.93.48/Issues.aspx?NewsletterEntryId=1135

[thaigene2]

...I would like to open a Chinese yuan account and am willing to fly to HK or Shainghai to do it. However, I thought that this was not possible for foreigners to do. Can you just walk into a bank in Shainghai, open an account, and then send a wire transfer from the USA?

.... I really want to get some savings dollars physically outside of the USA. TIA

Why not just open a Canadian Dollar account? Isn't that the currency that has really been surging against USD? Wouldn't that be much simpler for you if you live in the US? Of course if you don't think it will continue to climb then maybe not..

TG2

[Naam]

Another option is to open a global trading account with E-Trade. Once you deposit money into the account you can select the currency to park it in ( beleive there are currently six currencies and one is the yuan ). This account also allows you to trade directly on the Hong Kong exchange ( as well as london, frankfurt, toronto ).

my hong kong dollars have been steadily appreciating in value so one gets double the benefits of stock rise and currency appreciation/protection.

please tell us against which currency your Hong Kong Dollars have been "steadily appreciating"

[Naam]

I read on the website of OCBC China (bank from singapore, has 2 branches in china)

i understand from the website that deposits are kept with branches of OCBC, China not Singapore.

received today the information that neither with OCBC, Singapore nor with OCBC, Hong Kong one can keep a CNY account.

[Khun Jean]

I see the term 'undervalued' used a lot.

Why should something be undervalued, especially on a stockmarket?

Everything is always traded at 'market value'.

[LaoPo]

Another option is to open a global trading account with E-Trade. Once you deposit money into the account you can select the currency to park it in ( beleive there are currently six currencies and one is the yuan ). This account also allows you to trade directly on the Hong Kong exchange ( as well as london, frankfurt, toronto ).

i use etrade and trade hong kong stocks and keep my trading money in hong kong dollars which is as undervalued as the yuan and both currencies are about 40% undervalued versus the dollar.

my hk/china stocks have gone up sometimes as much as 100% i.e. my shares in cnooc have gone from 8.37 to 17.18 in the past 6 months.

my hong kong dollars have been steadily appreciating in value so one gets double the benefits of stock rise and currency appreciation/protection.

look into the h-a discount and stocks not listed on mainland exchanges as sure bets

1. ...as china now allows mainlanders to buy hong kong stocks

2. which are undervalued versus their shanghai or shenzhen listed counterparts plus some of the biggest companies ike china mobile and petrochina and cnooc are not listed on the mainland exchanges so they can now be bought by mainlanders.

i also have fxy the yen currencyshare etf as well as a yen deposit account with everbank so am betting on the carry trade unwinding soon.

A Booster Shot for the Yen

<a href="http://72.35.93.48/Issues.aspx?NewsletterEntryId=1135" target="_blank">http://72.35.93.48/Issues.aspx?NewsletterEntryId=1135</a>

1. That possibility is NOT yet finalized by China.

Therefore mainlanders can not buy -mainland China- HK-listed shares yet. Apart from that the rules will be quite strict with a quite high 'starting' capital; so not for everybody on the mainland it will be a possibility to buy HK-shares.

2. PetroChina will be listed on the Shanghai -A- market as from next Monday, November 5, 2007. Also, the shares will be traded at a substantial premium over the price of the Hong Kong-listed H shares.

For your info: the shares will be trading under SHA: 601857 - Opening price Yuan/RMB 16.70 but it wouldn't surprise me if the price will jump through the roof, the first trading day.

Investors subscribed for the IPO with a staggering $ 441 Billion, whilst PetroChina needs 'just' $8.9 billion to fund refinery and oilfield expansion. Bear in mind that those $ 441 Billion was deposited CASH by the same investors with the various Banks; Few people will be lucky to have received the shares...

LaoPo

Edited October 30, 2007 by LaoPo

[Momo8]

In HK HSBC will only allow you to open an account if you have a valid working visa/HK ID/or letter fronm employer.Think money laundering etc that is rife.Over in Guangzhou where they are more relaxed,you can walk into any Bank of China,ICBC,Agricultural Bank of China,Construction Bank,with a wad of rmb tell you you are working and the visa is 'in the works' and they will open one for you no problem,rmb and foreign account combined.

HSBC China based will also do the same but you must provide an address.

Shanghai is more strict about 'the rules' but worth giving it a go in Guangzhou. www.hsbc.com www.icbc.com.cn for more info.