You farang know too much

[dazdaz]

What's the Thai expression for a farang who knows too much?  I've been thinking of this lately and find it highly  amusing.

To me, that's great.  To know more than a native Thai, but they don't seem to like it, is my understanding.

So why? Intimidation?  It's unusual to them, and anything unusual is uncomfortable?

Regards

[Johnt]

if its a bargirl who is saying it, they mean they can not cheat you same they can do with newcomers.

If its from other places, then its probebly because you know how "rotten" some thing is.

If you have been living here for long time, you know what I mean.

And is you can speak Thai, its commen when you come to places where people know about it, that they say "take care, this farang can speak Thai"

[dazdaz]

Please go into lots of juicy detail about rotten, I need the education.  Do you mean the corruption is even worse than people imagine?

Regards  

[Johnt]

I not want to tell you to much about this.  I stay 12 year here already, and is one of them who "know to much"

so much happen, that it in the wrong hands, will effect the Thai tourism.  I dont stay in Thailand more, I have seen enough.  But still I belive its one of the best countries with beautiful girls, and sure also the best place to use "loose" your money.

JohnT

[dazdaz]

Hi John,

I've been giving this some thought.  I don't agree with the viewpoint that if your ignorant, you should remain ignorant and what you don't know won't hurt you.  To hint about something and then not tell somebody kinda annoys me.  Friend, what are you talking about?  No holds barred, bare all, we want the full exposure.  What on earth are you hinting at?

Either you know a lot about Thailand in which case why would you not want to share it, or you don't.

You say you have seen enough, but you don't say why.  Come on friend, explain what you mean, else why are you on the Thaivisa forum?

I don't bite, honest [add rude comments right about here], I just want to understand your perspective.

Regards

[Thetyim]

DazDaz,

Don't hold your breath  waiting for some great revelation, what he is refering to is probably that after you have been here long enough to get under the surface you find that all the smiles are insincere and ripping of the falang is an accepted trait.

That more than half the people are short of money and will do anything to get it.  I have seen mothers encouraging their young daughters to sell themselves. One of our local colleges has hundreds of girls who sell themselves in order to pay for their education, it makes me very sad to see it.

On top this we have aids, gays, trannies, dykes.

Start publishing that lot and the tourist industry would be in trouble.

[dazdaz]

Thank you, your absolutely correct, I was looking for a revelation.

Does this make the Thai's very fake though, like the many fake watches they sell, because that to me is a revelation.  I don't view the people as fake, in fact my perception is one of the most genuine cultures i've ever experienced.  Are you saying this is the trap that everyone falls into?  Can we explore this some more, i'd like to know more.  I would like to know reasons.  It's whats behind the smile that interests me. So when a farang knows too much, it's because he know's what's behind the mask!

LOS Should then be LOFS - land of false smiles.  

>On top this we have aids, gays, trannies, dykes.

>Start publishing that lot and the tourist industry would be in trouble.

This is common knowledge, I still don't get it.  Everyone knows about this.

P.S. why do you say falang and not farang?

Regards

[singa-traz]

Does this make the Thai's very fake though, like the many fake watches they sell, because that to me is a revelation.  I don't view the people as fake, in fact my perception is one of the most genuine cultures i've ever experienced.  Are you saying this is the trap that everyone falls into?  Can we explore this some more, i'd like to know more.

I used to say, everything is Fake in Thailand ... the T-Shirt, the watches, the CDs ... even the women ! You remenber the TV Spot, "Boy may dum kha" ...

I don't know what you mean by "Genuine Cultures" ... but I tend to think that, Thai smiles carry a different meaning than our smiles ... and when you understand that, you start to realise that Thai people are not happier or nicer than the rest of the planet ... we, falang, just assume they are ... Thai are not the "Bon Sauvage" of Jean-Jacque Rousseau.

Sometime, you wish you could see Thailand ... like the first time you landed here ... but then you realise, you are better off to know more ...

DazDaz, stay longer in Thailand ... and you will understand why falang ...

[Johnt]

Yes dear Thetyim, I think you know what I mean, and I have tried so much during these many years in Thailand.

In fact Dazdaz, I was making a list.....and not finished yet.

It will also contain.

How to open a company, and if your company is running good, how the Thais try to take the controle, with all the dirty tricks they can. Place heroin in my office, and while I stay in Jail for 2 days (again paying to come out), how the employies steal all there was to steal.

Return and try make it run again, have shootings after me,  or cars orders to hit me when I was on way home on bike.

and this was only a small part of my life time in Thailand.  So if you have good ideas who can make money, then keep them for yourself.

And I do think fake smiles is what it is.  The Thais only aimed for money, and they will kill if its necessary. Just look in the news, and see what happen every day. The police is involved in nearly everything also. They have eyes everywhere, looking for places to "make money" I have to good inside knowledge here also. Check the many mysterious death cases among farangs living here. I have good friends, now dead, police speak it was suicide, but I know better.  I can continue but I not want.

But among many thais, we farangs are so stupid, we are easy to take money from, and to steal from us is near legal, simply because we are not Thais. Their way of thinking is so far away from ours.  A old sweden man tell me this story.

If you give a african man a TV, because he dont have, and because you want to give him,then he will never forget it, and will be happy everytime he see you, because he remember this.

If you give a Thai a TV, sure he will smile and say thanks also, but he will return the next day asking you for give him a video also.

And of course, have  bright heads in Thailand also, but they are rare.

JohnT

[dazdaz]

Hi John, thanks for your writeup.

So crime and greed is a large part of the Thai psyche.  This makes them sounds more American, but with a more old fashioned outlook, much like the cowboys and indians era.

Perhaps the problem is that we drop our guard a little too low, and believe that if a culture has a poor economy, produces pretty women, and has fasntastic scenery, then we judge them to be stupid.  So in a way, it's out mistake by thinking we can take advantage.

Are there crime statistics?  What about what's not reported.

This is a little too vague.

http://www.police.go.th/stat43.htm

Interesting to note people are caught for pornography, which followed a previous discussion on the board and prostitution, all 10,000 of them.

You did'nt mention what type of business you ran?  Was there a lot of competition?

Regards

[MaiChai]

Farang roo mark mai dee. Farangs who know too much are no good/not welcome. An expression I have heard several times. Says it all.

[PattayaSteve]

Dazdaz - I am a relative newcomer to Thailand.  I was there Feb 2003 for two weeks.  During that time an up and coming Bar Area at Sukhumvit Soi 10, Sukhumvit Square, was demolished by a back hoe and about 80 armed men at 2:00 am.  One of the owners who resisted died in police custody the next day.    During the next 3 months over 1000 citizens of Thailand were gunned down in cold blook on the streets of Thailand.  Their crime was suspected drug use.  I approach residence in Thailand very cautiously.  Take care.

[singa-traz]

[Johnt]

Hi DazDaz

I have had many different companies in Thailand, all with problems. Tour business, Restaurant, Bar owner, Alarm systems company.

But we have made a model now, who will save a normal house between 50-70% from the electric bill, using the sun energy, beause sun they have for sure. We need 1 month more and the prototype have been running 1 year in Thailand.

Low cost, ready for sell.....we will see

John

[PhillipJ]

I also have heard the saying - farang roo mak mai dee. But is has been expalined to me as a kind of warning. Some thai friends of mine have noticed that my thai language may be getting a bit too good and have told me that i should be carefull how and when I use it. For example i have been warned that if stoped by police while driving I should dumb down and claim not to speak Thai at all. A good way to keep out of trouble.

The Thais are extremely proud of the fact they are the only country in SEA not to have been colonised. I guess they are still very wary of farangs who know too much, as knowledge could be used against them. I can't blame them for wanting to keep some things a secret.

Reading a bit of Thai history, especially about their past dealings with farang, helps to gain an understanding of how Thais relate to farang today

[naja]

some thais concerned about trafficing in women often know the names of the police,soldiers and mafia involved but will not say or do anything because they don't want to get a bullet in the head.

a number of years ago,a thai journalist told me that the names of the thai generals involved in drug trafficing were well-known.but they would never be published for obvious reasons.

TAKE HEED OF JOHNT'S ADVICE.be like the 3 monkeys and you will live to see your grandchildren.

[MaiChai]

My wife has warned me often about using Thai too much. It can be dangerous in the wrong situations. I agree with the point about acting dumb with the police. We are getting a lot of police now who have some English language skills, but often they can't be bothered to try and use English/loose face trying, so they just wave you on.

If you live in Thailand for a long time, be careful about people getting to know your cicumstances, particularly if you have some money behind you. The police are often looking out for new money generating opportunities, and if they get to know that you are worth something, they will try and get some of your money. Best policy is not to be too flashy with your money and give the impression that you don't have a lot of money by living a lifestyle similar to a middle class Thai.

[MrSam]

You guys crack me up.  :laugh: I do have to agree with the play dumb part though. Some people are impressed with your interest and knowledge in Thai culture... and some are not. I've seen many an angry taxi driver, street merchant, tuk tuk driver, police officer and whoever else thought they could cheat me but soon learned otherwise...

It's best only to use this knowledge only when needed, and very unwise to boast (to a Thai) about what you know. I, myself, will usually not speak Thai unless there's no other option for communication. I've been here for many many years, and while I do speak and read Thai, most people who think they know me well think I don't speak very much and can't write at all. In fact, the only person who knows the full extent of my abilities is my Thai wife.

It's best to keep it that way... ::

[keestha]

Suppose you are British, Aussie or American and you have a foreign colleage, neighbor or whatever who you always thought spoke little English, but later you discover he just pretended and that his English is almost fluent, what would you think of him? Kind of a sneaky guy, right? Likewise Thai people dont appreciate if somebody pretends to have little knowledge of the lingo, but later they find out that he understands&speaks a whole lot.

Of course you have to be careful in Thailand, but in this thread I am smelling too much of a besieged fortress mentality. If you cannot feel at ease and act naturally here, it might be wise to consider making a move.

One of the very few situations in which I might refrain from speaking Thai and use English instead, would be indeed if I was stopped by the police for a minor traffic infraction: because he thinks you are a tourist or because he is afraid of getting a headache having to use "phasa farang" (English)he might just wave you on. Another highly exceptional situation when I might use English is when speaking to a Thai who is very much high class and speaks English quite well or thinks that he does: speaking Thai with the guy when others are present would make him lose face.

[chuang]

I still remember when I first met my ex-fiancee in Chiangmai, a friend of her told her this-

'Mai thong sawn jaw-ra-keh wai ngarm'.

In other words don't teach a crocodile to swim, the crocodile was me....funny is'nt it.....

[chuang]

I still remember when I first met my ex-fiancee in Chiangmai, a friend of her told her this-

'Mai thong sawn jaw-ra-keh wai ngarm'.

In other words don't teach a crocodile to swim, the crocodile was me....funny is'nt it.....

[LPCustom69]

Chuang, glad you can laugh about it now. But that's the way it is. Good luck.

[Dexlowe]

Lots of great little gems of information in this thread. Anyone coming to Thailand to live should take note -- playing "dumb" with cops, feeding the ego of a "little big man" by speaking English . . . etc.

But on the question of saving "face", what about us farangs? While we're so busy watching our "Ps" and "Qs" so as not to upset Thais, where do we stand in the grand scheme of things in respect of "face"? Well, many people might argue otherwise, but the fact is, we don't stand anywhere. But I have no problem with the question of "face" as I was brought up to respect everybody, regardless of their "social standing" (I've used quotes here because this expression did not exist in my book until I came to Thailand). This is an interesting question to ponder, so if anyone wants to talk more about it -- in a meaningful way, of course -- send me a note and I'll start a new thread.

[Roger13]

Yes - this is interesting

So can I start by asking what words you used to

describe the difference between a Judge

and an uneducated labourer?

[markt]

I remember years ago i was told ..."learn Thai, both spoken and written, and you will know them better."

That was eleven years ago.  Nowadays i act as if i cannot understand their languague.   Why?  I find that i understand them a whole lot better if i just listen to them talk about me.

Sometimes i wish that i cannot understand them.

[mrentoul]

Another highly exceptional situation when I might use English is when speaking to a Thai who is very much high class and speaks English quite well or thinks that he does: speaking Thai with the guy when others are present would make him lose face.

Many Thais at my workplace speak good English. If you come across such a person there's a good chance he will speak English better than you speak his language.

In that case there's less of a risk of the Thai looking stupid than the westerner, if he carries on speaking Thai when all about him are Thais speaking his language.

I don't go around telling my Thai colleagues at work whether I can speak their language. It's not important. They might be pleasantly surprised if a westerner they work with every day tells them he's managed to pick up a bit of their language.

But I don't think ''honesty'' really comes into it (see post above).

If a Thai wants to speak in English, then in most cases I would hope a westerner would oblige. Isn't it just good manners?

I want to add here that I'm not trying to flame anybody, particularly the person who posted above, as I think that post was thoughtful and decent.

Little gets written about how westerners and Thai interact in terms of the language that criss-crosses between them. I know one guy, a Spaniard, who speaks Thai at a high level (but does not sound particularly good) who refuses to speak anything but Thai with Thais...including people who speak perfect English.

His case is a little different, because he came here many years ago speaking neither English nor Thai (or so he claims), and had to learn both of them fast.

However, the reason he gives is revealing: he won't speak English with a Thai because he thinks Thais are inferior. Thai is all they deserve, apparently.

That's another reason I hope westerners are generous with English. Thais want to learn it, because they perceive it as being superior. Language is about give and take, just like a conversation. I think we should consider the other person's wants and needs as well.

[LPCustom69]

I think the saying goes " It's better to have people think you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubts"

:cool:

[mrentoul]

That's it. Thank-you.

[chonabot]

My Spoken Thai is not too bad, I can speak Isaan Thai more comfortably than Bangkok style Thai ( Geordie/High Class..lol)

but I really can't stand the westerners who can speak Thai well, and insist on addressing other westerners in Thai and only Thai.

I can understand the westerners who are rightly proud of their skills, but to me this is pushing the point.

Incidently I have only met this type in Bangkok.

[buasaard]

Nowadays i act as if i cannot understand their languague.

I read a lot of people act this way.

Aren't you a little paranoic? And don't you think you are cheating them? And again you never say anithing offensive about them in your own language?

After all that's what just we are doing on this forum.

I'm a 43 years disabled, and you know,thais do not seem to like disabled people.

I heard just a couple of times thais, saying unpleasant words. One time an old woman passing near asked my wife why she stayed with me, cannot she find anybody better?

Another time one girl on the beach asked her if I can have sex.

But that's what also  people think in Europe,just they do not express. Do you think when a girl introduces his disabled boy friend to their parents, they are happy?

Personally when I approach thais I speak Thai, first they don't try to overcharge (overcharging tourists is common practice all over the world) , and also for a form of respect.

If you respect them you'll be respected.