Violant Thai Woman

[bobbin]

Well!! What a post to read first thing in the morning!!

30 years ago I lived with an English girl for more than 2 years who exhibited some of the behaviour you describe. it never got to the physical attack stage (if you don't count throwing things at me...with the intent to hit the target) but still similar emotional upheaval. Luckily the relationship fizzled out without injury to either party. She seemed to need the emotional intensity.

Later, I was married for 20 years to a woman who would never consider such behaviour. Even during the divorce she retained her composure.

The obvious point is that there are all kinds of people. Jai yen and Jai rawn. Jai yen is better though maybe a bit boring in comparison.

I think that by letting her seriously attack you the first time without making it perfectly clear that a second occurence would mean the end of the relationship, you set the stage for everything since.

To paraphrase....hit me once, shame on you! hit me twice, shame on me!!

It's time to run.

[sonnyJ]

<br />

These violent Thai girls are certainly not representative of most Thai girls.<br />It is classical behavior of a small percentage of the Thai population with various personality disorders such as Borderline Personality Disorder that is mainly bought about from being abused (usually sexually) as children.<br />These girls usually end up working in the "entertainment industry" and since a large % of Farang get their wives/gf's from such places they will experience this type of Thai girl more often than is usual. It is difficult to detect at first, it's only after you've been with them for a while that their true personality comes to the fore.<br />My Thai gf is not from the "industry" and is a normal, well balanced, wonderful person. As are her friends.<br />Just another thing to consider if you are contemplating taking a companion from the "industry".

<br /><br /><br />I agree with the first part of your 2nd sentence, except so called "BPD" seems to be far more common in Asia than on the Occidental reality.<br />Otherwise your post is full of crap.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Please, tell us more O' wise one.

The reality in Thailand is not at all the way you stated.

[qualtrough]

These violent Thai girls are certainly not representative of most Thai girls.

It is classical behavior of a small percentage of the Thai population with various personality disorders such as Borderline Personality Disorder that is mainly bought about from being abused (usually sexually) as children.

These girls usually end up working in the "entertainment industry" and since a large % of Farang get their wives/gf's from such places they will experience this type of Thai girl more often than is usual. It is difficult to detect at first, it's only after you've been with them for a while that their true personality comes to the fore.

My Thai gf is not from the "industry" and is a normal, well balanced, wonderful person. As are her friends.

Just another thing to consider if you are contemplating taking a companion from the "industry".

I agree with the first part of your 2nd sentence, except so called "BPD" seems to be far more common in Asia than on the Occidental reality.

Otherwise your post is full of crap.

Duchovny, I could have predicted this response. Your analysis is spot on. As you point out, the assumption of many farangs is that the women they are associating with are representative of the average Thai woman, which in the majority of cases is just not the case for the reasons you point out. They do not like that being pointed out, and will go to great lengths to deny any message to the contrary.

Edited November 3, 2007 by qualtrough

[PadThaiGuy]

You may end up dead or in jail real soon.

Retreat to a safe place is my advice.

She may even batter and bruise herself, pull out her hair, scratch her self till she bleeds and claim you did it all.

I've seen it.

You end up in Thai Court and she will have numerous witnesses to back her up.

[sibeymai]

My ex-wife pulled a knife on me 3 times over a period of 3 years and at other times was verbally abusive. Explains really why she is now the ex-wife.

The first time I thought it was my fault or my behaviour causing the problem. After moving the family back to the home my country the behaviour continued. Moved back to LOS thinking she would be happier here and she became even worse. All in all the marriage lasted 5 years. Most of it was stable but to this day I can not find any rationale for her behaviour. There are some clues but I'm no psychologist. Often she would not do the housework or watch TV all day. I come home from work and it's obvious nothing has happened all day. My guess is some sort of depression but I could never find out the cause.

When she went crazy it seemed like the temper tantrums of a child, except with the threat of serious physical injury. As for the knives, in each case I managed to disarm her. I do remember after the second occassion I removed all knives from the premises. On the third occassion about 6 months before we were officially divorced I had to sleep barricaded in the bedroom. We separated shortly after but she demanded financial incentive to leave. I paid, what else could I do ?

I am now remarried and never have experienced the same behaviour. It seems my previous wife may have suffered from depression or had a violent character or grown up in a situation where this behaviour was learned or acceptable. My current wife is also from a rural Isaan village but is completely different. I blame myself for marrying the wrong girl. Perhaps if I had been more fluent in Thai when I married previously I might have discovered some tell tale signs but when communication is limited I think it is difficult to get a full picture of a person's mental state. Caution is necessary and long "engagement" periods recommended.

[sonnyJ]

These violent Thai girls are certainly not representative of most Thai girls.

It is classical behavior of a small percentage of the Thai population with various personality disorders such as Borderline Personality Disorder that is mainly bought about from being abused (usually sexually) as children.

These girls usually end up working in the "entertainment industry" and since a large % of Farang get their wives/gf's from such places they will experience this type of Thai girl more often than is usual. It is difficult to detect at first, it's only after you've been with them for a while that their true personality comes to the fore.

My Thai gf is not from the "industry" and is a normal, well balanced, wonderful person. As are her friends.

Just another thing to consider if you are contemplating taking a companion from the "industry".

I agree with the first part of your 2nd sentence, except so called "BPD" seems to be far more common in Asia than on the Occidental reality.

Otherwise your post is full of crap.

Duchovny, I could have predicted this response. Your analysis is spot on. As you point out, the assumption of many farangs is that the women they are associating with are representative of the average Thai woman, which in the majority of cases is just not the case for the reasons you point out. They do not like that being pointed out, and will go to great lengths to deny any message to the contrary.

Isn't this point, which I pointed out, breaking at least two forum rules?

[seonai]

Good points from some of the guys here, I just hope that the OP hears us and takes note of our suggestions for his possible future

[qualtrough]

These violent Thai girls are certainly not representative of most Thai girls.

It is classical behavior of a small percentage of the Thai population with various personality disorders such as Borderline Personality Disorder that is mainly bought about from being abused (usually sexually) as children.

These girls usually end up working in the "entertainment industry" and since a large % of Farang get their wives/gf's from such places they will experience this type of Thai girl more often than is usual. It is difficult to detect at first, it's only after you've been with them for a while that their true personality comes to the fore.

My Thai gf is not from the "industry" and is a normal, well balanced, wonderful person. As are her friends.

Just another thing to consider if you are contemplating taking a companion from the "industry".

I agree with the first part of your 2nd sentence, except so called "BPD" seems to be far more common in Asia than on the Occidental reality.

Otherwise your post is full of crap.

Duchovny, I could have predicted this response. Your analysis is spot on. As you point out, the assumption of many farangs is that the women they are associating with are representative of the average Thai woman, which in the majority of cases is just not the case for the reasons you point out. They do not like that being pointed out, and will go to great lengths to deny any message to the contrary.

Isn't this point, which I pointed out, breaking at least two forum rules?

I don't know if that is true or not, I am sure a moderator can let us know, but if so it is an example of PC gone mad.

[sonnyJ]

I would like to hear of him too. And thanks for everyone who supported my local methods in Bangkok.

[sbk]

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[tuky]

You are not alone lor.

As my wife was lunging with a knife, or swinging the vacuum pipe or hurling coffee mugs at my head I would back away, defend myself with an arm or duck.

The strangest thing in all this is with a knife coming at me, or a pipe swinging over my head she saw fear on my face and that egged her on, she started screaming at me telling me I am not a man, I am not a real man because I was scared. I remember wondering what a real man would do??? Was she telling me to hit her back?

Of course there is no way I could hit her, but I could get close enough to keep the knife away from my body and get her in a hold of some sort until she calmed down.

I remember wondering what a real man would do??? Was she telling me to hit her back?

[sonnyJ]

You are not alone lor.

As my wife was lunging with a knife, or swinging the vacuum pipe or hurling coffee mugs at my head I would back away, defend myself with an arm or duck.

The strangest thing in all this is with a knife coming at me, or a pipe swinging over my head she saw fear on my face and that egged her on, she started screaming at me telling me I am not a man, I am not a real man because I was scared. I remember wondering what a real man would do??? Was she telling me to hit her back?

Of course there is no way I could hit her, but I could get close enough to keep the knife away from my body and get her in a hold of some sort until she calmed down.

I remember wondering what a real man would do??? Was she telling me to hit her back?

In this situation all thinking has gone out the door so it's really impossible to answer.

[LinkPopularity]

check "borderline personality disorder" in google ... it will explain a lot !

[sonnyJ]

check "borderline personality disorder" in google ... it will explain a lot !

And the answer is?

For me, no short time please.

I'm happy never heard that myself.

The time will usually be the answer, I guess.

Edit: I confused two replies but here it is

Edited November 3, 2007 by sonnyJ

[TEFLMike]

So people are no experts on all asia''s domestic violence.

Yeap i have to say there is only domestic violence is Asia and never in farang land.

Being in a period of post-UK divorce, Chris's situation brings flashing back to mind, my divorce in the UK.

My wife, of 30 years, became agressive and violent during the divorce settlement period and resulted in my having to put a lock on the bedroom door and hiding myself away for up to two years. Nothing on the scale of what Chris is experiencing, however, it was bad enough. There were countless scenario's, the worst was being thrown downstairs'.

All my solicitior could say was ' Keep your head down, Michael'.

Violence towards men, by women, is on the increase in the UK, and maybe other countries also. The police and courts in the UK have only recently accepted this and now act accordingly, as it was always the male who was at fault.

I recognised a behavourial change in her in a few weeks leading up to receiving the divorce papers through the letterbox.

I am ansure what caused her change of behaviour and attitude towards me, even to this day, 3 or 4 years on. Was it due to being married 30 years and boredom set in?

My feelings go out to you Chris, get the help you need somehow. Even advice from UK charity organisations, now recognised by the police and the courts, set up in the UK, that deal solely for men who are on the receiving end of violence from their partners. They could possibly point you in the right direction? There is one such organisation based in Liverpool, alas, I cannot bring to mind the name of the organisation. Possibly an email to a national UK newspaper, seeking that information, may be a start? Just one suggestion offered from one of these organisations could be a Godsend to you and could afford you a glimmer of hope as regarding advice

If you wish to contact me via private message, for further help on seeking out one of the organisations, please feel free to do so.

Best wishes to you Chris.

Michael

Chonburi

[Smithson]

I've heard Thailand has the world's highest rate of domestic violence. It seems much more complex than simply wife bashing.

Thais, like most Asians, don't like confrontation, so when it occurs it easily spirals out of control.

Reacting violently to an insult or harsh words seems somewhat acceptable. Has anyone noticed how Thais see little difference between arguing and physical violence?

[sbk]

Not sure where the idea came from some posters that violence in relationships only occurred in Asia --

the reality is violence in relationships can happen in any kind of relationship, be it parent-child, husband-wife, boyfriend-girlfriend, and in non-heterosexual relationships between men and women. Yes, the statistics show that more often the man is the perpetrator against the woman but it is also the case that women can be abusive as well.

Escalating the violence by reacting in a violent manner to physical abuse is not the answer. Leave. And get out of the relationship in as quiet a manner as possible. Many people don't understand why a woman would stay with a man for years when he abuses her but it seems to me that the fear of what might happen when running away is just as real as the fear of what might happen when staying.

Also, in the case of abused/abusive relationships, the abused person is usually belittled so much and for so long that they start to believe the abusive person that they somehow deserve it, or somehow bring it on themselves.

No one deserves to be abused in a relationship that is supposed to be loving.

I think that alot of good advice has been given here, and hope the OP will take up on some of the kind offers of help. Good luck to you.

[mellow1]

You may end up dead or in jail real soon.

Retreat to a safe place is my advice.

She may even batter and bruise herself, pull out her hair, scratch her self till she bleeds and claim you did it all.

I've seen it.

You end up in Thai Court and she will have numerous witnesses to back her up.

Agree with this point of view. I don't think you will get a fair shake in any Thai court, simply because your Farang and she's Thai. Go back to your country and do it there. If you take the whole family you can document the abuse by filing police reports each time it happens, should you survive. It doesn't sound like the children are yours, so you wouldn't get custody anyways(in Thailand), her parents would. I can certainly understand you wanting the best for these children, and going back home with the family might be the only way to do that. If you are financially strapped, these option won't be available to you, so just moving to a new town and disappearing might be your only option. Personally I wouldn't of let this happen to me, I would of probably retaliated in a violent manner the first time. This would probably not have been the best thing, but I can't see me allowing someone to attack me physically without fighting back, they would need a gun for that, and would never be able to be without it and the ready.

[Edonista]

You are not alone lor.

As my wife was lunging with a knife, or swinging the vacuum pipe or hurling coffee mugs at my head I would back away, defend myself with an arm or duck.

The strangest thing in all this is with a knife coming at me, or a pipe swinging over my head she saw fear on my face and that egged her on, she started screaming at me telling me I am not a man, I am not a real man because I was scared. I remember wondering what a real man would do??? Was she telling me to hit her back?

Of course there is no way I could hit her, but I could get close enough to keep the knife away from my body and get her in a hold of some sort until she calmed down.

I remember wondering what a real man would do??? Was she telling me to hit her back?

I would consider spanking her

[Mobi]

You are not alone lor.

As my wife was lunging with a knife, or swinging the vacuum pipe or hurling coffee mugs at my head I would back away, defend myself with an arm or duck.

The strangest thing in all this is with a knife coming at me, or a pipe swinging over my head she saw fear on my face and that egged her on, she started screaming at me telling me I am not a man, I am not a real man because I was scared. I remember wondering what a real man would do??? Was she telling me to hit her back?

Of course there is no way I could hit her, but I could get close enough to keep the knife away from my body and get her in a hold of some sort until she calmed down.

I remember wondering what a real man would do??? Was she telling me to hit her back?

I would consider spanking her

I've been down this path. The reality is that if you have an out of control woman screaming insults at you and threatening you with violence, you are not going to stay calm and controlled.

Then you take into account that she is 5Ft. 2, , 45 Kilos, and you are 6 Ft plus, 90 kilos it would be very easy, in the heat of the moment, to inflict serious injury on her, even if was not intended.

I have had a woman punching me in the face and the only way I could restrain her was to hold her in bear hug from behind. She continued to struggle like crazy and it was very hard to keep hold of her. Eventually we were both exhausted and she stopped struggling. She asked me calmly to let her go. I said I would release her if she promised to stop the violence. She promised. I let her go, and she punched me smack in the eye. I grabbed her again and forcibly removed her from my room and locked the door. Later, when the drama had subsided, she showed me bruises all over her body where I had grabbed her and held her. That is the problem - she could have easily gone to the police and claimed I had physically abused her, when all I was doing was trying to protect myself.

I would never deliberately hit any woman, however bad she was, but others may be more inclined to. I would not particularly blame them if they did because everyone has a breaking point, and self preservation also comes into the equation.

It is a very difficult and dangerous problem.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

These violent Thai girls are certainly not representative of most Thai girls.

It is classical behavior of a small percentage of the Thai population with various personality disorders such as Borderline Personality Disorder that is mainly bought about from being abused (usually sexually) as children.

These girls usually end up working in the "entertainment industry" and since a large % of Farang get their wives/gf's from such places they will experience this type of Thai girl more often than is usual. It is difficult to detect at first, it's only after you've been with them for a while that their true personality comes to the fore.

My Thai gf is not from the "industry" and is a normal, well balanced, wonderful person. As are her friends.

Just another thing to consider if you are contemplating taking a companion from the "industry".

I'm glad someone said it. Don't discount it.

[kat]

But, we don't live in a perfect world with perfect people, and love is not perfect, so the next question is: can she change and is she remorseful? That is the starting point, but it would have to be seriously backed up by behavior such as ...

Kat, I usually agree with your posts, but this advice (I read it as: stay and try to mend things) is very dangerous at this point. Domestic violence is, as a rule,

Should you get out of it....yes, you should....leave her and go back to the UK alone....I suspect that her problem is with you alone, the kids will be fine. It is not unusual for Thai women to beat their kids with a stick, I have seen it many times, no different to what happened to a lot of us as kids before the do gooders decided that it was bad for us.

I mostly agree with you, but ctually you quoted me out of context because you cut off my quote. I did not imply "stay and mend things." I actually told him that this scenario did not offer that option. I understand what you are saying about abusers, but I wanted to acknowledge that SOMETIMES some abusers do change, after hitting rock bottom and a very hard, long road back. But, it is the exception, and not present in this case.

You are not alone lor.

As my wife was lunging with a knife, or swinging the vacuum pipe or hurling coffee mugs at my head I would back away, defend myself with an arm or duck.

The strangest thing in all this is with a knife coming at me, or a pipe swinging over my head she saw fear on my face and that egged her on, she started screaming at me telling me I am not a man, I am not a real man because I was scared. I remember wondering what a real man would do??? Was she telling me to hit her back?

Of course there is no way I could hit her, but I could get close enough to keep the knife away from my body and get her in a hold of some sort until she calmed down.

I remember wondering what a real man would do??? Was she telling me to hit her back?

At the risk of catching a lot of flak on this forum, I think part of this is the matching component to a history of violence. I think within the cultural context, it may be expected that a man will dominate and control his woman, and that if he doesn't, he not only isn't a man, but he doesn't really love her, because the understanding of it that is reinforced everywhere including soap operas and movies is also about possession and control. So, part of this dynamic is not only about past abuse, but her understanding and cultural rationale of that abuse. "We only hurt the ones we love" and all of that.

[stateman]

Chris,

Let me mirror my own experience.

Married then divorced 8.5 years.

Wife pulled a knife, threw plates, gave my daughter a black eye, put a rope around my neck and pulled my off the bed while asleep. The list goes on. After about yr 5 I new I had to get out of this relationship. I recorded everything with cameras, I made police reports including taking my daughter there after she was hit. All in all, there were few people who wanted to go in front of a judge to testify what a case she was, as with your situation, at other times she was an energetic likeable person with lots of friends. I set a strategy, I knew I would need to show clearly in a legal sense the continuious behaviour, this was achieved with photos, dated and recorded in a scape book format, police reports were all filed carefully. I waited until my two daughters were old enough to understand the reason mum and dad could not stay together again. They agreed that to stop mummy from screeming and throwing things in the house that it was a good idea for daddy to live in a different house. This worked very very well.

It took 12 months for divorce proceedings to go through. I gained full custody, and allow my girls to spend a few days every week with their mother. Life for me is excellent.

You made 2 strange decissions:

1. You sold up in UK and moved to Pattaya.

2. You have run yourself short of money and as we know your not going to get a decent salary doing anything here.

Get a good lawyer, someone you can speak good English with if your Thai is not 100%. Be very specific, give the lawyer an incentive to win the case,ie 50% now, 50% paid the day entering the court room and an additional 100% bonus paid direct to the lawyer if he meets your objectives, paid on signing by the judge of the court judgement. Hop on a plane to UK and re-establish your life immediately staying as others have recommended with your parents. Work and pay the lawyer to manage the divorce here. DO NOT accept her bargaining when she is loving and caring towards you....... Gain custody of your child/children and relocate them..... This will all take 2 to 3 years. Do not do it for her or yourself(you've been pretty much an idiot so far, sorry!!), but do it for your children...

Well done jayjayjayjay and congrats for your success in taking the legal steps to protect yourself and children. You took your time to build the case and protect your future.

These are the legal steps I believe OP needs to go through to ensure there is no trouble to haunt him years later. That is why I provided the info on afforable lawyers.

This will take a long time, but when completed it will be well worth the effort as it will be a clean break and the OP won't carry the short end of the stick.

Meanwhile I also agree with sonnyJ, kat and others about the need to leave and seek safety as soon as practical. Do it before any harm happens to the OP.

[lazeeboy]

You are not alone lor.

As my wife was lunging with a knife, or swinging the vacuum pipe or hurling coffee mugs at my head I would back away, defend myself with an arm or duck.

The strangest thing in all this is with a knife coming at me, or a pipe swinging over my head she saw fear on my face and that egged her on, she started screaming at me telling me I am not a man, I am not a real man because I was scared. I remember wondering what a real man would do??? Was she telling me to hit her back?

Of course there is no way I could hit her, but I could get close enough to keep the knife away from my body and get her in a hold of some sort until she calmed down.

I remember wondering what a real man would do??? Was she telling me to hit her back?

I would consider spanking her

I've been down this path. The reality is that if you have an out of control woman screaming insults at you and threatening you with violence, you are not going to stay calm and controlled.

Then you take into account that she is 5Ft. 2, , 45 Kilos, and you are 6 Ft plus, 90 kilos it would be very easy, in the heat of the moment, to inflict serious injury on her, even if was not intended.

I have had a woman punching me in the face and the only way I could restrain her was to hold her in bear hug from behind. She continued to struggle like crazy and it was very hard to keep hold of her. Eventually we were both exhausted and she stopped struggling. She asked me calmly to let her go. I said I would release her if she promised to stop the violence. She promised. I let her go, and she punched me smack in the eye. I grabbed her again and forcibly removed her from my room and locked the door. Later, when the drama had subsided, she showed me bruises all over her body where I had grabbed her and held her. That is the problem - she could have easily gone to the police and claimed I had physically abused her, when all I was doing was trying to protect myself.

I would never deliberately hit any woman, however bad she was, but others may be more inclined to. I would not particularly blame them if they did because everyone has a breaking point, and self preservation also comes into the equation.

It is a very difficult and dangerous problem.

im glad mine just crouches in the corner and sulks a couple of hours ,some of these stories are frightning

[stateman]

I strongly believe that OP's wife needs mental medical help.

Just wonder if she is one of those who was subjected to prior violence or sexual abuse, has schizophrenia or split personality - or a combination thereof.

Should the wife receives treatment on an ongoing basis, after a period of time it is possible things can get better.

At any rate, I belief most of us see it clearly that it is more than what Chris can handle by himself.

I really believe this is a medical case rather than a cultural thing. Thus, it is just as common a situation as those happening in any culture for someone with such a condition.

[JimmyCA]

DamianMavis - You are probably right. What can I say. The total insanity has only started since I left her and moved into the bar. Before that she was irrational and violant etc but most of the time she was a loving wife, faithful, and a good mother. I told you about a few instances from our 9 year marriage. The rest of the time was mostly good. The bottom line is I loved her, I wanted to believe her excuses and her apologies. I fooled myself into believing the outbursts would never happen again. I was wrong and if anyone else in in the situation where they think it will get better learn from my mistakes. People do not change. A wife beater will always be a wife beater and a husband beater .....

Chris

Most of the time does not count. OJ was a good husband most of the time.

Your lady's behavior is outrageous and more common with thai women than people here will admit.

[Smithson]

I think within the cultural context, it may be expected that a man will dominate and control his woman, and that if he doesn't, he not only isn't a man, but he doesn't really love her, because the understanding of it that is reinforced everywhere including soap operas and movies is also about possession and control. So, part of this dynamic is not only about past abuse, but her understanding and cultural rationale of that abuse. "We only hurt the ones we love" and all of that.

I tend to agree, you always see the man grabbing the woman and pulling her back in those soap operas. Force is shown as a sign of true love.

If your being hit and not hitting back the person will continue and repeat it. It's interesting to hear so many men say they have been hit and done nothing to retaliate. In each case the abuse continued and probably got worse.

I'm sure there are a lot of men who have hit back, it would be interesting to hear from them.

[tropo]

I don't want to stereotype all Thais but yes many handle things with violence and for lack of a better understanding I would say are insane. I did see red flags early on like her pinching and getting huffy but had no idea it would just keep escalating. Now the first thing I ask any Thai woman is are you jai yen? If they don't immediately say yes I move on.

Wasabi, what is the meaning of "jai yen"?

[sonnyJ]

There must be some way out of here, said the joker to the thief. Too much confusion .

And WHERE'S IZZY?

[tropo]

check "borderline personality disorder" in google ... it will explain a lot !

The OP's wife is hardly "borderline", she has taken it to extremes.