Fortuner At Transmission Slip

[nikster]

I heard squeaky scratchy noises from the brakes and went to the dealer for the 30K service. Leaving the dealer, I had the transmission slip which was very scary, so I went back, showed it to the chief mechanic there, he witnessed it, but later they couldn't reproduce it and I couldn't either. They are very reluctant to replace the transmission they say they have to order it from Japan and it will take a month.

Maybe somebody knowledgeable could comment - I am not exactly sure the brake problems were normal either.

- Disc Brakes: The pads were low, but not gone completely. However, one side was clearly used up at an angle so the remaining pad looked like a wedge and on the lower side it was gone completely, making the bare metal scratch my discs. They had to send the discs for smoothing and I had to pay for it. Only 2K Baht but I am wondering why these pads were not used up evenly.

- Automatic transmission.

Problem One: Immediately after the service. I drove 200m, then stopped to make a u-turn. When I tried to go again, the transmission did not engage, the engine revved seemingly in neutral. It eventually engaged and I could go. This then happened several times. Went back to the dealer & demonstrated to the mechanic, and once just hit the accelerator really hard, the engine revved pretty high and then the transmission suddenly engaged causing the car to jump forward (I tried to make it look bad - success).

The car went back to the dealer, and subsequently they could not reproduce the problem. I drove around with the mechanics in the car again, but could not reproduce it either. So I left to drive home.

Problem Two: On the way home from Chiang Mai - Pai on steep mountains, I found that the transmission apparently sometimes does not shift gears when under full load. So I would go up the hill and at 80 KPH the RPM would exceed 4500 (diesel engine!) and white smoke would come out the back. Tranny stuck in 2nd gear. Other times, tranny would shift normally and be in 3rd gear. I also saw the problem that one time going up the hill @140 and full throttle but there's only one spot along the way where that's possible I had gone up that hill before on full throttle with no problems so I am pretty sure the white smoke is not normal.

I was trying to push the car all the way - the transmission seemed to work fine at almost all times. I saw the white smoke two times, and the stuck gear a total of 4 times. It only happened under full load going relatively fast so it's not easy to reproduce. I also tried to not redline the engine and stopped testing @4000 RPM. But I could tell it was happening as normally the tranny shifts from 2 to 3 (while accelerating) long before hitting 80 Kph.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

The mechanic said he'll contact the "chief mechanic" for Thailand and call me tomorrow. I can still drive the car, but I really want them to replace that transmission before it breaks down in the middle of nowhere. Somehow I don't have the feeling the transmission is going to heal all by itself - it's going to get worse, the only question is when.

The service people told me they didn't touch the transmission at all but I think it's one heck of a co-incidence that I see the problem for the first time ever right when leaving the service parking lot.

Edited November 6, 2007 by nikster

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

You're going up a hill at 140 ??

"How to wreck a Toyota in 30,000 easy kilometers"?

Anyway, I'm happy I decided on a manual box.

[nikster]

You're going up a hill at 140 ??

"How to wreck a Toyota in 30,000 easy kilometers"?

Anyway, I'm happy I decided on a manual box.

Yeah, if you now the road there is one section that allows that - straight, surrounded by greenery, and a brand new road with good visibility.

Anyway the same problem happened @ 80...

[mikethevigoman]

You're going up a hill at 140 ??

"How to wreck a Toyota in 30,000 easy kilometers"?

Anyway, I'm happy I decided on a manual box.

Yeah, if you now the road there is one section that allows that - straight, surrounded by greenery, and a brand new road with good visibility.

Anyway the same problem happened @ 80...

maybe a silly questoin, but have you checked the atf level ? i had an auto car that would slip up hill and it was because it was low,.

[erkki]

"Problem One: Immediately after the service. I drove 200m, then stopped to make a u-turn. When I tried to go again, the transmission did not engage, the engine revved seemingly in neutral. It eventually engaged and I could go. This then happened several times. Went back to the dealer & demonstrated to the mechanic, and once just hit the accelerator really hard, the engine revved pretty high and then the transmission suddenly engaged causing the car to jump forward (I tried to make it look bad - success).

The car went back to the dealer, and subsequently they could not reproduce the problem. I drove around with the mechanics in the car again, but could not reproduce it either. So I left to drive home"

Hi,

I have the same problem with my Fortuner, it only occurs sometimes.

It looks to me as it occurs when I have drive for a while.

I manage to show it to the toyota dealer and they say it is normal???

They speak about some "switch" in the transmission that can cause this problems.

I will go to the dealer in next month and have a discussion again, because i'm not in Thailand now.

Erkki

[Thaiboxer]

It could be a simple computer glitch, or as another poster said, the ATF level may be low which can cause the thing to malfunction. ATF not only provides hydraulic power but it also cools/lubricates the moving parts.

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

Mental note: Get car without computers in between me and the wheels.

I once drove an automatic in the mountains.. what a nightmare, the thing seemed to select the wrong gear on purpose.

[nikster]

Mental note: Get car without computers in between me and the wheels.

I once drove an automatic in the mountains.. what a nightmare, the thing seemed to select the wrong gear on purpose.

Heh - old or bad ATs will do that. Before the Fortuner I had an old Suzuki Vitara with AT (inherited) and that thing was always in the wrong gear. Mountain driving was horrible.

The Fortuner is very good in the mountains though. I find the car is in the right gear almost all times. The only thing I gain by shifting "manually" with the gear lock is maybe 1/10th of a second delay that the AT needs to decide to shift down. I was going to get a manual Fortuner initially but my better half decided she needed the white one which only came with AT. So AT it was. And I have absolutely no complaints with it, most of my driving is on that steep twisty mountain road CM-Pai.

Except for that slip...

[nikster]

It could be a simple computer glitch, or as another poster said, the ATF level may be low which can cause the thing to malfunction. ATF not only provides hydraulic power but it also cools/lubricates the moving parts.

Considering that I had this problem right after the 30K service, and the service technicians spent an hour trying to reproduce / fix the problem, I would think that they have checked the ATF level. You never know of course - TIT

Computer glitch is an interesting one - is there a computer involved in the Fortuner AT? It's interesting because mechanical problems tend to get worse but computer problems have a chance of staying the same or even going away.

Edited November 9, 2007 by nikster

[nikster]

Hi,

I have the same problem with my Fortuner, it only occurs sometimes.

It looks to me as it occurs when I have drive for a while.

I manage to show it to the toyota dealer and they say it is normal???

They speak about some "switch" in the transmission that can cause this problems.

I will go to the dealer in next month and have a discussion again, because i'm not in Thailand now.

Erkki

Interesting - please update me on this if you find out anything.

[Thaiboxer]

nikster...Computers are used more and more these days to control various automotive systems. I would imagine that the Fortuner's automatic transmission has some computer components given that it's a recent vehicle. Older automatics were entirely mechanical; using simple hydraulic pumps to move the ATF around inside the case. An ECU (Electronic Control Unit) in a modern vehicle makes shifting, fuel injection, etc much more precise than in the past.

[nikster]

Update - my wife experienced a slip today too. Given the different kind of transmission-related problems, I am starting to think this is simply a bad transmission. We will do our all to get it replaced ASAP.

Problems:

- One time transmission would not switch into first gear at stop and go. When trying to go, engine revs, tran in neutral, then snaps into gear violently. Only happened that one day, but did happen repeatedly inside 1 hour or so.

- Same day, transmission would not switch from 2nd to 3rd gear going uphill under full load. Result engine revved too high, white smoke coming out the back.

- Today, wife goes uphill, puts the stick from D --> 2, transmission goes into neutral for a moment (slips), engine revs, then jumps into gear violently. That shall not happen with a 1 year old car under any circumstances.

At today's problem the car was not particularly hot or cold, so I don't think it's temperature related. This is a bad transmission, period. I would very much appreciate opinions on the matter.

[elkangorito]

maybe a silly questoin, but have you checked the atf level ? i had an auto car that would slip up hill and it was because it was low,.

This is not a silly question. Also, by checking the transmission dipstick, you may notice any contaminants, like water globules. If you do, this is a bad sign.

Also, on 2 occassions, you have mentioned "white smoke". This is not a good sign for a diesel. Immediately upon hearing this, I checked google & got the following info;

White smoke No 1.

Normally means that the fuel injected into the cylinder is not burning correctly. The smoke will burn your eyes.

* Engine/pump timing out

* Fuel starvation to the pump causing the pumps timing not to operate correctly

* Low engine compression

* Water/petrol in the fuel

White smoke No 2.

White smoke is caused by raw, unburnt fuel passing into the exhaust stream. Common causes include ..

* Incorrect fuel injection timing

* Defective fuel injectors

* Low cylinder compression

Low cylinder compression may be caused by leaking valves, sticking piston rings, ring wear, cylinder wear, or cylinder glaze.

When white smoke occurs at cold start and then disappears as the engine warms up, the most common causes are fouling deposits around piston rings and/or cylinder glazing.

Continuous evidence of white smoke indicates a mechanical defect, or incorrect fuel timing.

I would take the "white smoke" issue seriously...VERY seriously.

If I owned a diesel in anywhere, I would fit a CAV fuel filter. They are glass & can withstand the high pressure of the fuel line. They also allow you to see & empty any contaminants without having to re-prime the injector pump/fuel line. I have owned 4 Toyota Landcruisers over 18 years, two of which were diesel.

[nikster]

It could be a simple computer glitch, or as another poster said, the ATF level may be low which can cause the thing to malfunction. ATF not only provides hydraulic power but it also cools/lubricates the moving parts.

Considering that I had this problem right after the 30K service, and the service technicians spent an hour trying to reproduce / fix the problem, I would think that they have checked the ATF level. You never know of course - TIT

Ok I am eating my own words now... after mucking around with the car for another hour or two the Toyota service man had the brilliant idea to ... check the ATF fluid level! And... it was low! I thought that when dealing with a car with any kind of transmission problem, the first thing anyone would do would be to check the ATF level. But I was wrong. They do that, but only after doing a lot of other stuff, apparently?!

Mike and others you were right, I should have checked this. The mech also told me that it shouldn't be low, that it was going to get checked at the 40K service, and they asked me if I had done any oil changes at any other place - I hadn't.

After thinking this through, I think they just screwed it up at the 30K service. I never had a problem, then had the 30K service, then driving out of the dealership had severe problems which later turned into rare, hard to reproduce problems. I think some novice mechanic screed up, or something like that - people make mistakes. Of course the service rep didn't admit that this was likely, but why would he - they are Thai and this would be loss of face. So I left it at just telling the guy what I thought and I am sure he silently agreed.

Otherwise - how likely would it be for the 30K service to co-incide with a completely unrelated loss in ATF fluid levels? Errr... right.

[Lickey]

maybe a silly questoin, but have you checked the atf level ? i had an auto car that would slip up hill and it was because it was low,.

This is not a silly question. Also, by checking the transmission dipstick, you may notice any contaminants, like water globules. If you do, this is a bad sign.

Also, on 2 occassions, you have mentioned "white smoke". This is not a good sign for a diesel. Immediately upon hearing this, I checked google & got the following info;

White smoke No 1.

Normally means that the fuel injected into the cylinder is not burning correctly. The smoke will burn your eyes.

* Engine/pump timing out

* Fuel starvation to the pump causing the pumps timing not to operate correctly

* Low engine compression

* Water/petrol in the fuel

White smoke No 2.

White smoke is caused by raw, unburnt fuel passing into the exhaust stream. Common causes include ..

* Incorrect fuel injection timing

* Defective fuel injectors

* Low cylinder compression

Low cylinder compression may be caused by leaking valves, sticking piston rings, ring wear, cylinder wear, or cylinder glaze.

When white smoke occurs at cold start and then disappears as the engine warms up, the most common causes are fouling deposits around piston rings and/or cylinder glazing.

Continuous evidence of white smoke indicates a mechanical defect, or incorrect fuel timing.

I would take the "white smoke" issue seriously...VERY seriously.

If I owned a diesel in anywhere, I would fit a CAV fuel filter. They are glass & can withstand the high pressure of the fuel line. They also allow you to see & empty any contaminants without having to re-prime the injector pump/fuel line. I have owned 4 Toyota Landcruisers over 18 years, two of which were diesel.

Just shows what little you know about diesel engines, the pre and main filters are on the suction side of the fuel supply, not the high pressure side.....

[pop3]

I reckon the mechanic changed your auto fluid, filled it to the mark but did not check it again after starting the engine ? therefore you were running low.

[wilko]

Simple things first....

have you had the thing steam cleaned recently????? this can sometimes affect the operations of an auto.

then...

White smoke.....usually water in the combustion chamber...this comes from the cooling system which would mean a "blow" in the gasket between the coolant channel and the combustion chamber....could also result in over pressuring the cooling system and the tank overflowing.

White /grey is unburned fuel

Grey smoke is burning oil again one needs to find out how it is getting into the combustion chamber.

Either white or grey smoke is not good.

Black smoke is too much diesel and high/revs power....not usually too serious.

Is this vehicle 2nd hand?or high mileage? these seem to be problems associated with a high mileage vehicle.

Yes Thais tend to work backwards when diagnosing a fault so things like fluid levels get checked last. BUT you now need to find out why the fluid was low.....cars should loose oil/ fluids very mudch unless there is something wrong.

Edited December 10, 2007 by wilko

[nikster]

I am monitoring the ATF level, I think it's going to be OK. Most likely they screwed this up at service, since, as you say, the AT should not be losing fluid, ever. pop3's theory sounds most plausible right now.

White smoke happened one more time, and I now know this happens when I push the car as hard as is possible. It's not that easy to reproduce: You need to go pedal to the metal for a long time on an uphill slope. Then I think what happens is that the RPM goes over the red line and the white smoke appears. It doesn't happen during normal driving.

The car is a 1 year old Fortuner... 30,000 km...

[Pomthai]

White smoke (actually steam) usually indicates water in the cylinders, either contaminated fuel or head gasket. In your situation, you say it only happens when your really hammering it, its more likely high exhaust temps after a while and residual water turning into steam from the extra heat. (Water vapor is a natural by-product of combustion in engines and condenses in the relatively cooler muffler, till you floor it!)

If you start to see white smoke under normal driving conditions you almost certainly have a problem. Most likely a head gasket.

[mikethevigoman]

I heard squeaky scratchy noises from the brakes and went to the dealer for the 30K service. Leaving the dealer, I had the transmission slip which was very scary, so I went back, showed it to the chief mechanic there, he witnessed it, but later they couldn't reproduce it and I couldn't either. They are very reluctant to replace the transmission they say they have to order it from Japan and it will take a month.

Maybe somebody knowledgeable could comment - I am not exactly sure the brake problems were normal either.

- Disc Brakes: The pads were low, but not gone completely. However, one side was clearly used up at an angle so the remaining pad looked like a wedge and on the lower side it was gone completely, making the bare metal scratch my discs. They had to send the discs for smoothing and I had to pay for it. Only 2K Baht but I am wondering why these pads were not used up evenly.

- Automatic transmission.

Problem One: Immediately after the service. I drove 200m, then stopped to make a u-turn. When I tried to go again, the transmission did not engage, the engine revved seemingly in neutral. It eventually engaged and I could go. This then happened several times. Went back to the dealer & demonstrated to the mechanic, and once just hit the accelerator really hard, the engine revved pretty high and then the transmission suddenly engaged causing the car to jump forward (I tried to make it look bad - success).

The car went back to the dealer, and subsequently they could not reproduce the problem. I drove around with the mechanics in the car again, but could not reproduce it either. So I left to drive home.

Problem Two: On the way home from Chiang Mai - Pai on steep mountains, I found that the transmission apparently sometimes does not shift gears when under full load. So I would go up the hill and at 80 KPH the RPM would exceed 4500 (diesel engine!) and white smoke would come out the back. Tranny stuck in 2nd gear. Other times, tranny would shift normally and be in 3rd gear. I also saw the problem that one time going up the hill @140 and full throttle but there's only one spot along the way where that's possible I had gone up that hill before on full throttle with no problems so I am pretty sure the white smoke is not normal.

I was trying to push the car all the way - the transmission seemed to work fine at almost all times. I saw the white smoke two times, and the stuck gear a total of 4 times. It only happened under full load going relatively fast so it's not easy to reproduce. I also tried to not redline the engine and stopped testing @4000 RPM. But I could tell it was happening as normally the tranny shifts from 2 to 3 (while accelerating) long before hitting 80 Kph.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

The mechanic said he'll contact the "chief mechanic" for Thailand and call me tomorrow. I can still drive the car, but I really want them to replace that transmission before it breaks down in the middle of nowhere. Somehow I don't have the feeling the transmission is going to heal all by itself - it's going to get worse, the only question is when.

The service people told me they didn't touch the transmission at all but I think it's one heck of a co-incidence that I see the problem for the first time ever right when leaving the service parking lot.

Lots of people make mistakes with auto trans fluid readings, firstly, it has to checked on a warm engine, you have to run it through the gears a few times, then put it in park and with the engine running check the dipstick,.just keep your eye on the level but ill bet it wasnt topped up originally, autos do not use oil, they can leak but they do not use it,.

[nikster]

White smoke (actually steam) usually indicates water in the cylinders, either contaminated fuel or head gasket. In your situation, you say it only happens when your really hammering it, its more likely high exhaust temps after a while and residual water turning into steam from the extra heat. (Water vapor is a natural by-product of combustion in engines and condenses in the relatively cooler muffler, till you floor it!)

Yeah, only when I am really, really hammering it. There's not many roads that I know of here where that's safe/possible. So you are saying this is perfectly normal? That would be cool, thx

[mikethevigoman]

White smoke (actually steam) usually indicates water in the cylinders, either contaminated fuel or head gasket. In your situation, you say it only happens when your really hammering it, its more likely high exhaust temps after a while and residual water turning into steam from the extra heat. (Water vapor is a natural by-product of combustion in engines and condenses in the relatively cooler muffler, till you floor it!)

Yeah, only when I am really, really hammering it. There's not many roads that I know of here where that's safe/possible. So you are saying this is perfectly normal? That would be cool, thx

same sort of thing as when you follow someone and there exhaust is throwing water out,( usually an old granny in a honda civic on her way to church, the only time the car gets used ! ) ) its condensation being emmited, ill bet its similar,.

[wilko]

A bit gloomy to point this oput but hammering it is also the way to bring out a small gasket blow and finally make water get into the combustion chamber.

Also you haave a turbo...I haven't thought how that fits into the equation yet. (they tend to allow puffs of oil every now and then.....blue smoke)

[PattayaDavid]

[quotLots of people make mistakes with auto trans fluid readings, firstly, it has to checked on a warm engine, you have to run it through the gears a few times, then put it in park and with the engine running check the dipstick,.just keep your eye on the level but ill bet it wasnt topped up originally, autos do not use oil, they can leak but they do not use it,.e name=mikethevigoman' date='2007-12-10 22:37:43' post='1698765]

It's interesting, I had a look through my Vigo owner's manual a few weeks ago and there is no mention at all of how to check the transmission fluid level.  It doesn't even display a diagram of where the dipstick is located.  However, I agree with Mike as to the proper procedure for checking transmission fluid levels.

[nikster]

[quotLots of people make mistakes with auto trans fluid readings, firstly, it has to checked on a warm engine, you have to run it through the gears a few times, then put it in park and with the engine running check the dipstick,.just keep your eye on the level but ill bet it wasnt topped up originally, autos do not use oil, they can leak but they do not use it,.e name=mikethevigoman' date='2007-12-10 22:37:43' post='1698765]

It's interesting, I had a look through my Vigo owner's manual a few weeks ago and there is no mention at all of how to check the transmission fluid level.  It doesn't even display a diagram of where the dipstick is located.  However, I agree with Mike as to the proper procedure for checking transmission fluid levels.

This is what the Toyota mech said as well. He said to start, leave running for 5 minutes, then check.

The reason this is not in the manual is that it's not expected to be a problem. It's highly unusual for the ATF level to be low.