Do You Hear The Word Farang Used By Thais In A Derogatory Way?

[Jingthing]

"No. Generally not but obviously it depends on the context."

We don't disagree.

I am talking about a SPECIFIC and to my experience COMMONLY USED context, calling people farang when they know more specific info.

Your last post said nothing about that; if someone who knows something about that has some insight, that would be great.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[HS Mauberley]

...so I don't think my question was answered. The point was the speaker knew the person's name and not using it when you know it is indeed rude in the west. So for sure this is not also rude in Thailand? I am not yet fully convinced. I think it is a relevant question (rude or not) because I do think Thai people do this quite often.

It has been answered a few times but you either did not read it or chose to ignore it so I will repeat it:- "They know my name but still call me a farang"; I know my eldest daughter's in-laws very well, I know their names but sometimes call them Taff & Blodwyn or the Welsh <deleted> - what does this prove? Absolutely nothing!

They could also be using 'farang' as a term of affection.

I am not following your point at all.

I think it is obvious that this would usually be rude in the West. It does mean something there (RUDE), so now you say it doesn't, so I am also supposed to believe you know what you are talking about in Thai culture when you don't even acknowledge an obvious thing about Western cultures?

What has 'western culture' got to do with it? The fact that one set of cultural conventions exist amongst a community does not make them universal facts about humanity. What don't you understand about this? Not everyone in the world is like you. And the fact that they aren't like you, does not make them bad or wrong.

[Jingthing]

HS

What has 'western culture' got to do with it? The fact that one set of cultural conventions exist amongst a community does not make them universal facts about humanity. What don't you understand about this? Not everyone in the world is like you. And the fact that they aren't like you, does not make them bad or wrong.

The other poster INCORRECTLY in my view claimed using the word of a person's race when more specific is known is not rude in western culture and then claimed to know about Thai cultural use. I wondered if someone does not know this basic thing about western culture, how can they claim to know about Thai culture? Unless they claimed to be Thai, which they did not do.

I never said Western and Thai culture are the same. That is why I am asking about this specific (and common) contextual example in Thai culture, because I admit I don't understand what it means here. Specifically, calling someone farang when you know perfectly well something more specific, like their actual bloody name. I hope you get this point, because if you continue to twist this again into some kind of absurd insult, not going to bother replying (and for that I am sure the world is grateful).

If someone with actual Thai cultural knowledge can shed light on this question, please do.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[HS Mauberley]

"No. Generally not but obviously it depends on the context."

We don't disagree.

I am talking about a SPECIFIC and to my experience COMMONLY USED context, calling people farang when they know more specific info.

Your last post said nothing about that; if someone who knows something about that has some insight, that would be great.

OK. When I asked my wife about this, the answer was - as you've been told repeatedly by others - no. It's clear from the tone of your posts that you don't agree with this but as yet the only evidence which you have furnished for its being rude is the fact that in some contexts, among English-speakers, it would be rude. As I've said, this is utterly irrelevant.

[chanchao]

And that concludes this discussion.

This time 'round.

[Chloe82]

Jingthing, your obsession has got ridiculous, moderators, please close this thread and allow him to salvage at least one shred of dignity.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Chloe82

[HS Mauberley]

What has 'western culture' got to do with it? The fact that one set of cultural conventions exist amongst a community does not make them universal facts about humanity. What don't you understand about this? Not everyone in the world is like you. And the fact that they aren't like you, does not make them bad or wrong.

The other poster INCORRECTLY in my view claimed using the word of a person's race when more specific is known is not rude in western culture and then claimed to know about Thai cultural use. Do not act so dumb, please, read my posts or don't bother with replying to me. I never said Western and Thai culture are the same. That is why I am asking about this specific contextual example in Thai culture, because I admit I don't understand what it means here.

Utter <deleted>. You have repeatedly made reference to what standards obtain amongst English speakers and used the fact that saying 'that Chinaman' is rude to imply that saying 'that farang' is therefore, by analogy, rude. I am not a fool and I am quite capable of reading your posts and understanding your meaning.

[Jingthing]

HS, no, you didn't even understand my question if you actually think I am asserting that I have the opinion it is rude here to say farang when more specific is known. I said it clearly: I do not know. I want to know. This thread probably will be closed now, but if not, please don't regurgitate the same vomit again, OK?

I would still like this question answered by a KNOWLEDGEABLE person though.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[HS Mauberley]

Jingthing, your obsession has got ridiculous, moderators, please close this thread and allow him to salvage at least one shred of dignity.

Yes, that would probably be for the best.

[Jingthing]

For the record, I don't want it closed, but it probably will be now.

The only reason I want to keep it open now is to hear some expert views on my current question.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Jingthing, your obsession has got ridiculous, moderators, please close this thread and allow him to salvage at least one shred of dignity.

Since when were you, Ms. Pity, concerned about my dignity?

[HS Mauberley]

HS, no, you didn't even understand my question if you actually think I am asserting that I have the opinion it is rude here to say farang when more specific is known. I said it clearly: I do not know. I want to know. This thread probably will be closed now, but if not, please don't regurgitate the same vomit again, OK?

I would still like this question answered by a KNOWLEDGEABLE person though.

I find it rude but if the person who is doing it doesn't think it is rude, then it isn't really rude. Of course, in the west, such usage would be very rude. Talking about your old friend Alex Wong, hey that Chinaman has bought a new car!

I think it is pretty common in Thailand for the F word to used alot even after the Thai person could speak about the person alot more specifically, don't y'all agree with that?

Are you seriously suggesting that your juxtaposition of being called Farang with Alex Wong being called 'that Chinamen' is purely accidental and you had no intention to imply that because the latter case is rude the former is therefore also rude (and therefore entailing your already thinking that farang in this context is rude)? If the answer to this is yes, you either think those reading this thread are morons who don't understand English or you need to do serious work on how you present your ideas.

As I and others have already said, you have also been told repeatedly that reports from Thai speakers show that it isn't rude. Yet you still persist with this.

Edited December 6, 2007 by HS Mauberley

[Jingthing]

Are you seriously suggesting that your juxtaposition of being called Farang with Alex Wong being called 'that Chinamen' is purely accidental and you had no intention to imply that because the latter case is rude the former is therefore also rude (and therefore entailing your already thinking that farang in this context is rude)? If the answer to this is yes, you either think those reading this thread are morons who don't understand English or you need to do serious work on how you present your ideas.

Finally, a good question. You are really overexcitable. Why didn't you just say what your problem was before? Egads!!!!!

Use of the word Chinaman was a mistake and clearly made it impossible for you to see my question. My mistake.

Please substitute the word Asian (a clearly neutral race word like farang), and start over (or not).

It doesn't make any difference if you use the word Asian or Chinaman in the western example. Use of EITHER is rude. If you KNOW Alex Wong, he is Alex Wong, not that Asian. GET IT NOW?

That's in the west. I know the west. I do not understand what the same USAGE with FARANG means in Thailand (rude or not). You don't either based on what you told me.

If you cannot accept that use of the word Chinaman was an honest poor choice on my part, then I really don't want to hear from you further about it.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[KhaoNiaw]

I haven't bothered reading this thread since the first few pages, but an experience I had today seems to meet the original topic.

Walked down our soi earlier this evening. Two little girls, 5-6 year-olds, walking the other way. "Falang", says one. "Mai chai" says the other, "Paw Mary" (พ่อ Mary - Mary being my daughter, of course).

Was the 'falang' derogatory? Would it bother you?

[Goshawk]

pages and pages of crap...

whats the title of this thread ? Do You Hear The Word Farang Used By Thais In A Derogatory Way?

Well if you do hear it that way, it's because you choose to hear it that way..

I've had similar conversations with Mrs Goshawk, her family, friends, and strangers.. By turning this topic on it's head I tried an experiment once: someone shouts at you '...farang !' you must instantly reply with deadpan straight face 'yes, Asian !' then look at the bewilderment on their face as if to say, 'why did he say that ?' - you'll get this same look everytime you try it..

with this you'll see there is absolutely no intent for you to be offended by its use..

[HS Mauberley]

Jingthing - So you've heard from a number of people who report that their Thai friends/partners all say that it's not rude. What exactly is going to satisfy you that the answer is no?

[Jingthing]

Well if you do hear it that way, it's because you choose to hear it that way..

That is psychobabble gobbledeegook.

People sometimes insult you ... REALLY they do. You can be Mother Theresa but it is not possible to go through life without being insulted. If you choose to hear a real insult as not being an insult, it doesn't mean they didn't insult you. We often don't know though (insult or not), and that is the subject of alot of this discussion.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Jingthing - So you've heard from a number of people who report that their Thai friends/partners all say that it's not rude. What exactly is going to satisfy you that the answer is no?

I don't recall an expert reference to this common context, calling us farangs when a specific thing like a name is already known. That would satisfy me. How many times do I have to tell you that?

I would be happy to be convinced that this kind of usage is not usually INTENDED to be rude. I am not as yet.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[HS Mauberley]

OK. Well outline a sample dialogue (and not one that's preloaded with racist terms in English). Then those who can be arsed can ask their partners how this would sound in Thai and report back to you. Would that satisfy you? I'll run it past her indoors later.

Edited December 6, 2007 by HS Mauberley

[Goshawk]

Well if you do hear it that way, it's because you choose to hear it that way..

That is psychobabble gobbledeegook.

People sometimes insult you ... REALLY they do. You can be Mother Theresa but it is not possible to go through life without being insulted. If you choose to hear a real insult as not being an insult, it doesn't mean they didn't insult you. We often don't know though (insult or not), and that is the subject of alot of this discussion.

what a m#ron.. it's not an insult

get it?

give it up...

[Jingthing]

OK. Well outline a sample dialogue (and not one that's preloaded with racist terms in English). Then those who can be arsed can ask their partners how this would sound in Thai and report back to you. Would that satisfy you? I'll run it past her in doors later.

OK, here is one.

Johnny (an Englishman) has been a friend of Somchai for two years. They are sharing a beer at Somchai's house. Lek, Somchai's friend (who also knows Johnny including his name) calls Somchai on his cell and asks What's up? Somchai says: Not much. Just having a beer with my FARANG friend.

Rude? Or not rude?

To me, it SOUNDS rude, but I accept this culture is so different there might not be an ounce of rude intention behind it. But I don't know.

HS, if this thread is closed before you have an answer, please PM me with the info. I am SINCERELY curious about this.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[Chloe82]

Well if you do hear it that way, it's because you choose to hear it that way..

That is psychobabble gobbledeegook.

People sometimes insult you ... REALLY they do. You can be Mother Theresa but it is not possible to go through life without being insulted. If you choose to hear a real insult as not being an insult, it doesn't mean they didn't insult you. We often don't know though (insult or not), and that is the subject of alot of this discussion.

The word ‘discussion’ here being used in the loosest sense of the word of course.

[Jingthing]

Chloe82

The word ‘discussion’ here being used in the loosest sense of the word of course.

Funny! True!

Sometimes we agree. Did I tell you I like you. Really like you. And I don't even like girls. Creeped out enough to stop stalking me? If not, what would it take?

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[Goshawk]

another dud thread kid..

just like you're 7-11 one - not much thought put in before you hit those keys

[Chloe82]

Chloe82

The word ‘discussion’ here being used in the loosest sense of the word of course.

Funny! True!

Sometimes we agree. Did I tell you I like you. Really like you. And I don't even like girls. Creeped out enough to stop stalking me? If not, what would it take?

Well Jingthing, tell me, please, do you really consider this to be a discussion which affords any value to you?

[Jingthing]

another dud thread kid..

just like you're 7-11 one - not much thought put in before you hit those keys

Everyone's a critic. You try.

[Jingthing]

Chloe

Well Jingthing, tell me, please, do you really consider this to be a discussion which affords any value to you?

If you bothered to follow the recent posts, I have a sincere curiosity about a real question. So the answer is absolutely yes. And I really wish if this isn't closed, that you either stay on topic or back off.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[Goshawk]

another dud thread kid..

just like you're 7-11 one - not much thought put in before you hit those keys

Everyone's a critic. You try.

he's clinging to the masts of a sinking ship...

gurgle... gurgle...

[Pattaya_Fox]

Please don`t let this topic degenerate into throwing insults at each other. Please calm down and post in a member friendly manner.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[Jingthing]

Saved by the bell, thanks PT. Yes, please, there is a topic here. Please talk about the topic only and refrain from too much personal stuff.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jingthing