Second Class Citizens

[Jingthing]

Life is not what you put into it but what you get out of it.

We saw the same fortune cookie!

Frankly if "life" was as banal and simple to figure out as you seem to "think" I would have jumped out of my highrise long ago! Such sentiments make me want to vomit. I can't relate to you at all. Are you a Hallmark card?

Maybe some cliches are true though, such as ignorance is bliss.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[gburns57au]

Life is not what you put into it but what you get out of it.

We saw the same fortune cookie!

Frankly if "life" was as banal and simple to figure out as you seem to "think" I would have jumped out of my highrise long ago! I can't relate to you at all. Are you a Hallmark card?

Gee your quick on the trigger.....you can edit and reply quicker than I can type....

So ok...see if you can relate to this...

Why did you move to Thailand???

Better life and /or lifestyle...because in Thailand you can set up a lifestyle that was inaccessable to you in your birth country. You saw opportunities that were not available to you in your home country...

Ok so Thailand has given you a lot already.

What have you given back to Thailand for that....???

How much have you injected into their economy...look at the big picture....what percentage of their economy do you represent??

Then ask yourself....who is at an advantage?? You or Thailand

[Jingthing]

You or Thailand

Thailand is at an advantage or I wouldn't be here. Money honey. OK, I am OK with the deal too for now, but the house always wins, don't you know that?

Edited December 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

This is way of topic but;

jingthing, how ofen do you change avatars. was just getting used to he Garuda one. No you have a new one. Is it possibly Rosa Parks?

The garuda will be back. He's a smoking garuda.

[gburns57au]

You or Thailand

Thailand is at an advantage or I wouldn't be here. Money honey. OK, I am OK with the deal too for now, but house always wins, don't you know that?

If you werent at an advantage to you....then you wouldnt be there....

Simple really

[Jingthing]

If you werent at an advantage to you....then you wouldnt be there....

Simple really

So you think retirees as a group are RIPPING OFF Thailand? If that was true, they would abolish the visa option.

[gburns57au]

If you werent at an advantage to you....then you wouldnt be there....

Simple really

So you think retirees as a group are RIPPING OFF Thailand? If that was true, they would abolish the visa option.

I didnt say that.....

I said that you wouldnt be there unless it was to your advantage...

[Jingthing]

I didnt say that.....

I said that you wouldnt be there unless it was to your advantage...

From a transactional economic point of view, I agree.

If I go to the store and buy a tv for 10K baht, I want the tv more than the money, and the store wants the money more than the tv. BUT, the store makes a profit, eh?

Sorry about the vomit comment, that wasn't polite.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[gburns57au]

I didnt say that.....

I said that you wouldnt be there unless it was to your advantage...

From a transactional economic point of view, I agree.

If I go to the store and buy a tv for 10K baht, I want the tv more than the money, and the store wants the money more than the tv. BUT, the store makes a profit, eh?

It means you have the money to buy a 10K baht TV.....another advantage you have that the average Thai doesnt have.

[Jingthing]

It means you have the money to buy a 10K baht TV.....another advantage you have that the average Thai doesnt have.

I don't see the relevance to that other than making my point that we bring money and jobs into the Thai economy, which is an obvious fact.

[thaipete]

A second Class Citizen? I dont think I am a second class citizen. I have a better standard of living here then I would back at home. and I can have a hel_l of a lot more fun living in Thailand then I could living in Singapore. I have lived there so can comment, my brother loves it there and I cant see why.

yeah, I have to pay more than the locals for certain things, but I do not very often go trecking in the national parks, so thats ok.

I love living in Thailand even if nearly everyday I am pisse-d off with something. I have lived in 5 countries and this one is the best.

people moan about corruption, but love it when they get to bribe a traffic cop. you have to take the good with the bad. most of the time its good.

Yeah, the Thais probably do hate us, I think most of them do anyway, but they love having Farang friends. and most of them treat us nice anyway.

Well stated I have lived here 25 years now and this is the Thai's country my vote whatever would not do a lot politicians in all countries have to have a load of BS or they would not be in their jobs.

Just imagine being an immigrant in the UK. ok the Government welcomes you but the population dont. its the other way round here.

Im staying........

Bye Bye

[gburns57au]

It means you have the money to buy a 10K baht TV.....another advantage you have that the average Thai doesnt have.

I don't see the relevance to that other than making my point that we bring money and jobs into the Thai economy, which is an obvious fact.

Is it ??

Do you not think that Thailand would survive without you and all the other farangs who have set up base there....Unless you are the owner of a multi national company that employs thousands of Thais then I would think that your impact on the Thai economy would minimal.

But a canny business man knows that your business is only as good as what you put into it....not what you get out of it...maybe why so many prospective bar owners fail... I dont at all suggest that, that is your area of business.

But again and I quote....think not of Thailand can do for you....think of what you can do for Thailand.

Think beyond assets and wealth....open your mind to the less obvious

[gburns57au]

I didnt say that.....

I said that you wouldnt be there unless it was to your advantage...

From a transactional economic point of view, I agree.

If I go to the store and buy a tv for 10K baht, I want the tv more than the money, and the store wants the money more than the tv. BUT, the store makes a profit, eh?

It means you have the money to buy a 10K baht TV.....another advantage you have that the average Thai doesnt have.

But the average Thai is able to pay the TV off over six months interest free. Another advantage the Thai has that the average foreigner does not have.

I have had several HP agreements in Thailand...as have my partners....they pay a compound interest as I did.

[Jingthing]

Samran

A devils advocate question: Why should anyone should anyone offer retiree's PR? They come to live here only after their productive years are behind them (or they no longer choose to work). If you are going to retire, you should be doing so knowing you are financially secure to do so? Why should a goverment and a country who you have contributed to nothing durning your most productive and economically active working years (presumably you worked in your home country) all of a sudden turn around and offer you a safety net if all of a sudden you can't affort to live here in a financially sustainable manner?

Fair question, and maybe that is what they fear by not offering us residence.

Its simple. Not talking about any kind of financial benefits, just talking about permanent residence status so people as they age would be sure they could stay here as long as they can afford it without any further extension applications. I also would have no problem with more requirements, like knowledge of at least basic Thai. It could be an option people could earn and apply for, by being here for say 5 years, by learning Thai, etc., not a requirement.

I also think it is quite reasonable to point to other retirement visa offering countries that are indeed offering this humane option (residence). Its absurd that a person living in a country 10, 20, 30 years has no path towards more permanence. At least one poster thinks this is super greedy to want stability of residence for older people, again, I can't relate. Yes, it is a desire for something in return for something, but it is not greedy or selfish, it is a reasonable humane need (stability of home for older people).

Edited December 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[thaipete]

My Thai wife lived with me in the Uk for over twenty years. She was always to proud to be Thai to want a British passport -bui she did have indefinite leave to remain and she could own land.

We returmned to live permanently(?????????) in Thailand this year.

The house here is not in joint names ---it is in her name only !

I couild afford and would like a more expensive house- my /her house is worth 2m baht.!

Most of my money is offshore- how does this benefit the Thai?

My life is run one year at a time Ie visa to visa

Most of my Thai friends do not know how uncaring their law is.

I could be sent home simply because the immigration officer dealing with my visa does not like my aftershave!!!!

My wife says if this every haapens we shall loook at at adjacent countries.

I love my wife and want her to enjoy her life here in her native country.

There should be humanitarian reasons for immigration too.

I am so happy for you I have loved this country for 35 years and lived here 25, perhaps if I was starting again now I might try one of the neighboring ones. But I lost a leg and all my local store owners see my car and come out to serve me, at no extra cost, all the local Thais help me do everything I can only do slowly

[gburns57au]

A devils advocate question: Why should anyone should anyone offer retiree's PR? They come to live here only after their productive years are behind them (or they no longer choose to work). If you are going to retire, you should be doing so knowing you are financially secure to do so? Why should a goverment and a country who you have contributed to nothing durning your most productive and economically active working years (presumably you worked in your home country) all of a sudden turn around and offer you a safety net if all of a sudden you can't affort to live here in a financially sustainable manner?

Fair question, and maybe that is what they fear by not offering us residence.

Its simple. Not talking about any kind of financial benefits, just talking about permanent residence status so people as they age would be sure they could stay here as long as they can afford it. I also would have no problem with tough requirements, like knowledge of at least basic Thai.

I also think it is quite reasonable to point to other retirement visa offering countries that are indeed offering this humane option (residence). Its absurd that a person living in a country 10, 20, 30 years has no path towards more permanence.

I missed this post somewhere....you arent responding to your own posts are you??

[Jingthing]

I missed this post somewhere....you arent responding to your own posts are you??

No reply to post 181, its not all about you, mate.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[gburns57au]

I have had several HP agreements in Thailand...as have my partners....they pay a compound interest as I did.

Congratulations.

Fortunately I am financially sound enough not to have to buy things on the 'never never'.

Nor did I....but I did.

Live in Thailand ...live as a Thai

You cannot understand someone till you have spent time in their shoes....Yes I had the back up that they didnt have...I chose not to use it.

[gburns57au]

I missed this post somewhere....you arent responding to your own posts are you??

No reply to post 181, its not all about you, mate.

So why bring it up in this discussion?? If not to try and reinforce your own agenda...Please I am replying to you based on your responses....not on a yesterday post

[HS Mauberley]

“I also prefer living here to the states; that is why I want more perm status.”

That pretty much says it all, doesn’t it? But if there were anything to add, it would be this:

“If you are going to retire, you should be doing so knowing you are financially secure to do so? Why should a goverment and a country who you have contributed to nothing durning your most productive and economically active working years (presumably you worked in your home country) all of a sudden turn around and offer you a safety net if all of a sudden you can't affort to live here in a financially sustainable manner?”

It seems that this is really all about visas for retirees. Well, if you are financially secure, you have a visa. If you’re not financially secure, why should Thailand take it upon herself to house someone from a far wealthier nation? The only problem which I can see with this arrangement is the very minor headache of going through visa renewals. And if that’s all this thread boils down to, it’s really a bit pathetic to carry on like this. Inhumane? Really. A sense of perspective, please.

[Jingthing]

HS

Why should Thailand take it upon herself to house someone from a far wealthier nation?

That is twisted. Thailand isn't housing anyone. We are providing for ourselves or we couldn't be here. Thailand isn't a welfare state for anybody.

If an older person has moved to Thailand legally for 10, 20, 30 years you don't think that person deserves the chance for more perm status? No? OK. I do. I won't bother with a poll, but what percentage of people on these extensions do you think would also want this option? It is not only about inconvenience, it is about the very real possibility of being booted out of here when you are very old. That is a human issue, whether you have an ounce of compassion in your body, or not.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[gburns57au]

HS

Why should Thailand take it upon herself to house someone from a far wealthier nation?

That is twisted. Thailand isn't housing anyone. We are providing for ourselves or we couldn't be here.

If an older person has moved to Thailand legally for 10, 20, 30 years you don't think that person deserves the chance for more perm status? No. OK. I do.

Only if that person meets the criteria for the application....

[HS Mauberley]

HS

Why should Thailand take it upon herself to house someone from a far wealthier nation?

That is twisted. Thailand isn't housing anyone. We are providing for ourselves or we couldn't be here. Thailand isn't a welfare state for anybody.

If an older person has moved to Thailand legally for 10, 20, 30 years you don't think that person deserves the chance for more perm status? No? OK. I do. I won't bother with a poll, but what percentage of people on these extensions do you think would also want this option? It is not only about inconvenience, it is about the very real possibility of being booted out of here when you are very old. That is a human issue, whether you have an ounce of compassion in your body, or not.

There is a very important difference between something's being deserved and something's being wanted. It looks like you have confused the latter for the former.

[Jingthing]

There is a very important difference between something's being deserved and something's being wanted. It looks like you have confused the latter for the former.

Not really at all.

I think BOTH. If someone is here for five years, learns Thai, pays a huge application fee, he both WANTS and DESERVES a higher status. In my opinion which is all I have to go with. (Already broke my "promise" to back away.)

Edited December 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[HS Mauberley]

There is a very important difference between something's being deserved and something's being wanted. It looks like you have confused the latter for the former.

Not really at all.

I think BOTH. If someone is here for five years, learns Thai, pays a huge application fee, he both WANTS and DESERVES a higher status. In my opinion which is all I have to go with. (Already broke my "promise" to back away.)

What underpins that 'deserves'? Simply being rich enough to live in any country that takes your fancy is hardly a sound moral basis for this claim. If a retire has money, s/he can get a visa. If s/he doesn't, Thailand is under no obligation to provide one. That's not complex or hard to understand. Under what circumstances would a retiree loose his/her visa? Criminal activity and running out of money are pretty much the only ones which I can think of off the top of my head. In the first case, it is reasonable to expel them. The second case has already been covered.

[Jingthing]

Thailand is under no obligation to provide one.

Correct. I am talking about being reasonable to old people. They don't even have to offer visas in the first place, but they do, so here we are.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[HS Mauberley]

Thailand is under no obligation to provide one.

Correct. I am talking about being reasonable to old people. They don't even have to offer visas in the first place, but they do, so here we are.

OK. So we're back to wanting/deserving and it seems we're now firmly on the wanting side of that divide.

[Jingthing]

Thailand is under no obligation to provide one.

Correct. I am talking about being reasonable to old people. They don't even have to offer visas in the first place, but they do, so here we are.

OK. So we're back to wanting/deserving and it seems we're now firmly on the wanting side of that divide.

I suppose, I can't imagine this is really very interesting to anybody, but thanks for playing.

[jing jing]

Reasonable folks ought to concede that it would be NICE if so-called wealthy retirees could have a permanent visas and "rights" equal to Thai nationals, but guess what? Ain't gonna happen. I know of several fellas here on retirement visas who need do nothing more than mail some simple paperwork to their local immigration office every 3 months and they're good to go. On a related note, if the US gummint had kept better track of who they'd issued visas to prior to you know when, we taxpayers might have been spared Dubya's 200 billion dollar a year "war on terra."

Furthermore, although my lovely significant other was fortunate enough to receive a 10 year tourist visa to the good ol' US of A which normally allows her to stay 6 months at a time, for every one like her there are probably a hundred others who are refused visas altogether. Basically, the only way they will EVER set foot on those golden shores is by marrying a citizen.

Is life fair? I don't reckon so. We play the game in Thailand knowing the rules and taking the bad with the good. For many of us it is the very ambiguous, everything-is-subject-to-change, no-hard-and-fast-rules sort of environment that makes living here more interesting than existing back in Farangistan. Things are different here and it's unlikely that we foreigners are ever going to change the situation into something more like where we came from, and I say thank (insert deity of your choice) for that.

[Jingthing]

know of several fellas here on retirement visas who need do nothing more than mail some simple paperwork to their local immigration office every 3 months and they're good to go.

Those are just address reports. They need extension applications every year as well.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Jingthing