Bf Treated Like A Prostitute ...

[Oswulf]

A few days ago I checked in to a 4* hotel on Sukhumwit (S15 to be precise). They checked my passport details, gave my passport back to me, and showed me to my room.

When my long-term boyfriend checked in a few hours later (he'd been at work), the hotel insisted on keeping his Thai ID card.

(His name was on the reservation, as well as mine.)

He was upset at the way he was treated, and I was pretty angry.

Was he being treated like a prostitute? Or am I getting things out of proportion?

[flightcrew1]

A few days ago I checked in to a 4* hotel on Sukhumwit (S15 to be precise). They checked my passport details, gave my passport back to me, and showed me to my room.

When my long-term boyfriend checked in a few hours later (he'd been at work), the hotel insisted on keeping his Thai ID card.

(His name was on the reservation, as well as mine.)

He was upset at the way he was treated, and I was pretty angry.

Was he being treated like a prostitute? Or am I getting things out of proportion?

I don't think you are blowing this out of proportion. Living here in Thailand and traveling with the Thai bf many places both abroad and here I've only had one bad situation. 3 years ago coming back from Pattaya on the bus the girl in the bus station ticket window said something to the bf as he was purchasing the tickets for both of us. He looked shocked and said something back and moments later she was crying. I asked what he said but basically he said she said something rude to him and he put her in her place. I guess she was assuming he was a prostitute by the way he was dressed and travelling with a Farang. We were both very casual as were at the beach and it was pattaya!

Now we have stayed at Central Resort Samui, Le Meridiean Khao Lak, Sheraton on Sukhumvit (free voucher) and several other hotels when family and friends visit and have always been treated with respect and though Thai ID was asked for to check his ID it was given back.

Complain to the manager...I would.

[donna]

if it were me working in the hotel, i would by all means check the id (as your own id would have been checked) but as your partners name was on the reservation, there is no way the front office staff should keep the id card.

in the hotel i used to work at, if the additional persons name was not on the reservation, and the guests were not known to the staff, the id card would be held.

[jdinasia]

I have never had it happen when my partner's name was on the reservation .. nor would we stay if it did happen

[peter991]

Oswulf: I am sorry to hear about your bad experience. I get around this problem by getting my Thai bf to book hotel rooms for both of us. When we arrive - he fills out the hotel's registration card in his name. If I am flying into Bangkok late in the day, he will check in earlier in the day.

Peter

[ProThaiExpat]

Just checked with my mate and he says it happens occasionally with him. He knows exactly what to say in return and changes the dynamic and respect is then given him and it should have been in the beginning.

It may well be a Thai trait, putting people down by appearances rather that giving them the benefit of the doubt. I also have him do all the reservations, signing it and conversing with the management. Of course he was in the hotel business for years so he knows the magic words.

Your boyfriend is going to have to develop a little thicker skin and people will be people. How you treat him in front of Thais also goes a long way toward they recognizing his "status" with you. Instead of him saying "I am staying with Mr. Falang in room 154" he might phrase his registration process as "I would like to check into my room 154, my partner, husband, better half or any other acceptable word has already checked in". If his name is already on the reservation, as one suggested and the falang's name is not, it should be a win-win situation.

Edited December 5, 2007 by ProThaiExpat

[JonnieB]

This being Thailand...this type of occurence is bound to occur to both MM, FF, and MF couples checking into hotels. Especially if they check-in at separate times. The best thing to do is be sure to put down both names when making the reservation. If you as the farang checks in first, make sure to tell the front desk person that the other person will be checking in later and is your BF/husband/whatever and not a phu-chai chow

[cm-happy]

Just checked with my mate and he says it happens occasionally with him. He knows exactly what to say in return and changes the dynamic and respect is then given him and it should have been in the beginning.

It may well be a Thai trait, putting people down by appearances rather that giving them the benefit of the doubt. I also have him do all the reservations, signing it and conversing with the management. Of course he was in the hotel business for years so he knows the magic words.

Your boyfriend is going to have to develop a little thicker skin and people will be people. How you treat him in front of Thais also goes a long way toward they recognizing his "status" with you. Instead of him saying "I am staying with Mr. Falang in room 154" he might phrase his registration process as "I would like to check into my room 154, my partner, husband, better half or any other acceptable word has already checked in". If his name is already on the reservation, as one suggested and the falang's name is not, it should be a win-win situation.

what total rubish! "It may well be a Thai trait, putting people down by appearance". Hardly! A universal trait of judging a book by its cover.

Under normal circumstances, the late arriving party asks to use the house phone to announce his arrival to the waiting partner. The partner goes to the lobby to ensure his friend is properly registered, take care of addition charges if a single had been reserved and to show him the way to the room and to tip the bellman for the additional luggage.

Why would anyone kowtow, bow and scrape or repeat the "magic words" to the front desk staff?

Anyway, what the op describes has never happened to me or b/f either when a pre arranged double reservation has been made in advance, or even, when we are walk ins and somewhat dishevelled and unkept from a day of travel in need of a room for the night.

[Oswulf]

Thanks for the comments.

I probably should have said that not only was my BF's name on the booking, I also told the reception staff that he would be arriving later. When he arrived I went down to reception to meet him and went with him when he checked in.

[cm-happy]

Thanks for the comments.

I probably should have said that not only was my BF's name on the booking, I also told the reception staff that he would be arriving later. When he arrived I went down to reception to meet him and went with him when he checked in.

If this is the case then you have cause to complain. Think under similar circumstances would have wanted to speak to the hotel manager, without partner present so to spare any further embarrassment to b/f.

[peekint]

Thanks for the comments.

I probably should have said that not only was my BF's name on the booking, I also told the reception staff that he would be arriving later. When he arrived I went down to reception to meet him and went with him when he checked in.

If this is the case then you have cause to complain. Think under similar circumstances would have wanted to speak to the hotel manager, without partner present so to spare any further embarrassment to b/f.

If this was a large hotel, I'd make a big stink, even now - and do it to the international head office. Don't take that sh*t.

That said, with all the talk of how rude/uncivilized/without-a-clue Westerners are socially here, there is no doubt in my mind there is nobody who treats Thai people worse than other Thai people.

Like an early poster mentioned, my Thai husband has mastered the "reversal" in these sorts of situations. There are Thai cultural formulas which can be used in these cases. Watch the Thai soap operas to see them in action. Although I always get outraged when it happens (and it occasionally still does, as my husband looks 10 years younger than he is), I always enjoy watching the result.

Some of the more egregious events I remember over the years are the time we were sitting together on a Thai Airways Business Class flight. My husband was virtually ignored with respect to service, and was spoken to using rather rude Thai language constructions. And once, in Phuket, he was denied entrance to our hotel, two days AFTER we checked in (both names on the room)!

I think the origin of this is twofold:

1. Many of the service folks in hotels are essentially "bumpkins" who are just a step above tending the family buffalo. Now that they wear shoes daily, it's their opportunity to no longer be on the bottom social stratum.

2. Many of the service folks on Thai Airways are socialites who are doing the job because their family has connections and it's a "cool and prestigious" job to have (at least in their minds). They don't mind providing service to Westerners (who don't have a position in their social order), or to Thais who are their equals or betters - but they just can't bear to serve those they perceive, rightly or wrongly, to be below their family's usual position in the pecking order. It's as if they were serving coffee to their maid.

There's not much you or your BF can do about either of those cultural realities. What you CAN do is demand that you get what you pay for, get the respect any customer deserves - and complain like hel_l as high as you have to when you don't get it. (Believe me, both Thai Airways and the hotel - which shall remain nameless, as I've forgotten the name - heard from me, and the relevant employees were reprimanded in writing, cc to me and my husband). What your BF can do is study the soap operas, or get advice from "hi-so" friends (friends who may have grown up in a higher social stratum), and use what he learns.

This is not an egalitarian society AT ALL. Its especially hard to perceive that if you don't speak Thai well. But, a little close observation of body language, tone, and sentence length can teach you a lot.

[legag]

if it were me working in the hotel, i would by all means check the id (as your own id would have been checked) but as your partners name was on the reservation, there is no way the front office staff should keep the id card.

in the hotel i used to work at, if the additional persons name was not on the reservation, and the guests were not known to the staff, the id card would be held.

Yes, yes, yes. Right on.

You better talk to manager about it or check out!!

[Oswulf]

Prompted by some of your comments, I emailed the manager of the hotel and quickly received an apology.

I won't be using the hotel again, but if I ever find myself in a similar situation I'll demand to speak to the manager.

Thank you all for your input.

[Jingthing]

Sad to hear, but life is short, be happy you have a BF that you like enough and that he is not a prostitute!

[popshirt]

<snip>

Some of the more egregious events I remember over the years are the time we were sitting together on a Thai Airways Business Class flight. My husband was virtually ignored with respect to service, and was spoken to using rather rude Thai language constructions. And once, in Phuket, he was denied entrance to our hotel, two days AFTER we checked in (both names on the room)!

I think the origin of this is twofold:

1. Many of the service folks in hotels are essentially "bumpkins" who are just a step above tending the family buffalo. Now that they wear shoes daily, it's their opportunity to no longer be on the bottom social stratum.

2. Many of the service folks on Thai Airways are socialites who are doing the job because their family has connections and it's a "cool and prestigious" job to have (at least in their minds). They don't mind providing service to Westerners (who don't have a position in their social order), or to Thais who are their equals or betters - but they just can't bear to serve those they perceive, rightly or wrongly, to be below their family's usual position in the pecking order. It's as if they were serving coffee to their maid.

There's not much you or your BF can do about either of those cultural realities. What you CAN do is demand that you get what you pay for, get the respect any customer deserves - and complain like hel_l as high as you have to when you don't get it. (Believe me, both Thai Airways and the hotel - which shall remain nameless, as I've forgotten the name - heard from me, and the relevant employees were reprimanded in writing, cc to me and my husband). What your BF can do is study the soap operas, or get advice from "hi-so" friends (friends who may have grown up in a higher social stratum), and use what he learns.

This is not an egalitarian society AT ALL. Its especially hard to perceive that if you don't speak Thai well. But, a little close observation of body language, tone, and sentence length can teach you a lot.

This has also been my experience. Even today, in the apparently "hi-so" condo building we live in, the doormen, hall maids, desk people and other workers snap to attention when they see me and call out greetings, but virtually ignore my Thai husband. He hates it and never gets used to it.

It also reminds me of something that happened to an ex-husband of mine, a Mexican-American after we had moved to a suburb of Los Angeles. Roberto was tending to the front garden and a neighbor from across the road came over and asked "what he charged to do the garden". My esposo of course responded that he was the homeowner and told the guy to &lt;removed&gt; off. But that is the American way I guess, and wouldn't happen in the Land of Smiles.

[ProThaiExpat]

peekint: thanks for your last that expressed what I was trying to get across in my last post, but you did it so much better.

popshirt: so true, a world wide problem of perceptions. It has been my experience that many feel the need to elevate themselves in their own eyes by putting others down rather than elevating themselves in society by education and hard work.

I may be going asunder here, but I see a parallel with just finding a hair cutter that will follow your instructions. It was in Thailand that I first encountered a syndrome I call the "professional I know more than you do about you than you do".

I encounter this syndrome often and it is not an issue of language or lack of service, but the attitude that "I have the degree, the certificate or the job and the big desk with the title so I know what is best for you better than you do".

Combine that with the "just off the buffalo" situation peekint mentions and you have an intractable situation.

Just last night, my mate returned from Tesco having had it out with a cashier that treated him so rudely that he had to bring it up with a manager. He used to have hair down to his waist, always very well maintained and it seems he got less flack then than now, with his hair in a student style. Perhaps such long hair on a Thai man puts those type of people back on their heels or whatever, but insulting behavior by Thai staff may well be a indication of poor management that permits it, I am not sure? I have seen equally bad behavior by Thai customers as well so perhaps it is a people thing rather than a Thai thing.

[Scott]

This sort of stuff does happen. A straight friend of mine and his wife went to check into a hotel in BKK. They had made a reservation for themselves and some family who were visiting from overseas. She was denied entry because they said they had a "zero tolerance for prositution"! They were told to produce a marriage certificate otherwise she couldn't stay there.

Needless to say, it was very embarassing for them.

My BF never tolerates any crap from them--he says things like "The ones who were in the room before I got here might have been money boys, but I'm the one staying here...and Oh, let me know if any drop by when I go shopping." This usually gets them quite unsettled. He's usually treated quite well after that. I, on the other hand, am generally treated like a piece of crap!

[expatwannabe]

It happened to us once about 6 years ago. Since then, they never ask but they do write down his details as well as mine.

I think it really depends on the quality of hotel you stay in. High-end hotels know better than to alienate their guests.

[Scott]

It's not just the hotel, but also some poorly trained staff who don't quite get the subtlies of dealing with people diplomatically.

There is also sometimes a problem with the double-pricing thing. If the reservation is made by a Thai person, and then a foreigner shows up, they would have charged him more. This sometimes causes the desk staff to do/say something stupid. This hasn't happened to me recently, but some years ago it did.

[geriatrickid]

This being Thailand...this type of occurence is bound to occur to both MM, FF, and MF couples checking into hotels. Especially if they check-in at separate times. The best thing to do is be sure to put down both names when making the reservation. If you as the farang checks in first, make sure to tell the front desk person that the other person will be checking in later and is your BF/husband/whatever and not a phu-chai chow

I bolded your line because it's so important. It works like a charm when you do that.

I almost always go to BKK with a friend. Sometimes my gay friend goes with me. Other times it's my hetero buddy, when his wife needs a break. Often when we went to a major hotel, I would get those looks or the attitude. Maybe I'm overly sensitive, but I really resent it. Now, I stay in a "gay friendly" hotel and avoid the hassle, even if we're not a gay couple. The only problem we had was last year, when the desk clerk was checking us in and said, "we have a nice king bed" (we always have seperate beds.) My friend was sort of insulted and replied along the lines of hey, look at me I'm hot and young and my friend here is well, look at him, and you think I'm going to sleep with that? I suppose gay thais have their own hassles to deal with at times. BTW, this hotel has decent reviews, is close to a BTS station and costs less than similar hotels. So I reckon, staying in a gay friendly place works. There are some nice serviced apartments in BKK as well that don't care who you check in with.

[farangtingtong]

It's very hard to do it the right way.

If they don't ask for some kind of 'insurance' and something happens and the husband, bf, partner gets away, the staff at the reception has a problem.

If they ask for some kind of 'insurance' they are rude to their fellow citizens. I've slept in *, **, **** and superior class accomodation and some ask for this 'insurance' and others don't.

I remember a case in Udon Thani, where I checked in into a hotel and noticed that some Thai have to leave their ID-cards at the reception and they had to pay a THB 1,000 deposit. They didn't complain, and when I asked whether this was the policy, the staff said: "Yes, only with Thai customers."

It is a well known fact, that the Thai are very suspicious towards eachother and they always check, recheck and double-check, identities, bank books, paperwork. Sometimes I believe that 50% of the working population is just there to check the other half. Maybe useless, but it's just to be assured that things go the right way.

IF reception people in a hotel ask for ID and even keep it, your Thai partner/husband/bf knows everything about it and why it happens.

[Jingthing]

I think people are making too big a deal about this. There are so many more important things to worry about. The staff is trying to protect the farang, only doing their job. It is totally appropriate to ask for ID. Keeping it if it matches a stated name is rude, but I doubt if a farang insisted that the ID be given back to his Thai companion that they would be in a position to refuse.

Edited December 10, 2007 by Jingthing

[peridot]

I think people are making too big a deal about this. There are so many more important things to worry about. The staff is trying to protect the farang, only doing their job. It is totally appropriate to ask for ID. Keeping it if it matches a stated name is rude, but I doubt if a farang insisted that the ID be given back to his Thai companion that they would be in a position to refuse.

This indeed was my experience. When I first met my boyfriend I was staying at the Malaysia Hotel. After a few days I realized this was more than a casual aquaintance, and I told the people at the front desk that he was my boyfriend and they didn't need to call me when he left in the morning. They were very nice about it and stopped asking him for his ID card. They are quite used to moneyboys visiting their guests, and are always polite to everyone. This was my first experience of non-judgementalism in Thailand, and I am sorry that it isn't this way everywhere.

[cm-happy]

I think people are making too big a deal about this. There are so many more important things to worry about. The staff is trying to protect the farang, only doing their job. It is totally to his Thai companion that they would be in a position to refuse.

This indeed was my experience. When I first met my boyfriend I was staying at the Malaysia Hotel. After a few days I realized this was more than a casual aquaintance, and I told the people at the front desk that he was my boyfriend and they didn't need to call me when he left in the morning. They were very nice about it and stopped asking him for his ID card. They are quite used to moneyboys visiting their guests, and are always polite to everyone. This was my first experience of non-judgementalism in Thailand, and I am sorry that it isn't this way everywhere.

The Malaysia is unique, even amonst gay friendly hotels.

[peekint]

It's not just the hotel, but also some poorly trained staff who don't quite get the subtlies of dealing with people diplomatically.

There is also sometimes a problem with the double-pricing thing. If the reservation is made by a Thai person, and then a foreigner shows up, they would have charged him more. This sometimes causes the desk staff to do/say something stupid. This hasn't happened to me recently, but some years ago it did.

Interesting, my experience is the opposite sort of discrimination. Sometimes, when my husband calls to make the reservation, he has difficulty confirming a room or getting a good price. I then try the call, and get a better price, and immediate confirmation (I'm the farang).

[jerry921]

It may also make a difference whether the Thai half of the couple is darker-skinned or lighter-skinned, since complexion discrimination is so widespread among Thais.