Kawasaki Ninja 250

[PeaceBlondie]

If the price is in that area (Bt.170,000)...

I mean c'mon. Cbr150 Bt. 62-65,000. As much as I would love a 250cc machine, there is no way I am moving that far up the price ladder for an extra 100cc.

I almost agree, but not really. The bigger bikes start around 450K and go on up to 1 million, so there is an open spot there for a 250. The tricked out Honda CB 250 in Mexico retails for 44,500 pesos, which is about 135K baht.

Yes, if I could have 67% more engine, I might pay double, especially since it would be all new, factory warranty, etc.

Here is the website for Mexico, which is slow to load (as in, wait forever for the model lineup to appear). Multiply the listed prices by 3 for Thai baht. Divide the Mexican price, by 11 to get American $.

http://www.honda.com.mx/motos/index.htm

[bobbin]

Well, if it is priced in the Bt.120,000 then I might be interested.

Unfortunately, given the performance of our N.American currencies and the fact that I would probably get Bt.25-30,000 for my 5 year-old Cbr150 w/20,000km, leaving a difference of Bt.100,000 to be paid out, attention is probably all I'll be paying.

[PeaceBlondie]

Well, if it is priced in the Bt.120,000 then I might be interested.

Unfortunately, given the performance of our N.American currencies and the fact that I would probably get Bt.25-30,000 for my 5 year-old Cbr150 w/20,000km, leaving a difference of Bt.100,000 to be paid out, attention is probably all I'll be paying.

I hope you can get that much for a five year old CBR150, bobbin. Yes, the Ninja 250 looks like it will be in a price class by itself. Which tempts me, because while a new 250 would not put me among the big players with their four cylinder Yamahas, it would surely put me above the run-of-the-mill CBR150R's that I see a few times per week up here.

[Richard-BKK]

Bigger bikes start at 230,000 Baht in Thailand, that is for the Kawasaki KLX300R, the Kawasaki 250R Ninja will be cheaper

Edited March 24, 2008 by Richard-BKK

[Marcrossz]

The inside news: The motorshow price is 140,000 bt. (Confirm)!!!

[Richard-BKK]

Launched in November 2007, the Ninja 250R seen some bumpy road to the Thai market, but if all go's well we can see it on the road after the 29th Bangkok Motorshow.

I know, I said it before but this time all lights are green, the bike is coming. See picture of the original launch date.

[apetley]

The inside news: The motorshow price is 140,000 bt. (Confirm)!!!

Thanks for the info.

That is a very tempting price.

Now what's the trade in value of a 2 year old Phantom?

[adad]

Was there at Bitec today. They are still keeping mum about the price. And no official release date yet [the personnel said - still gauging market response, but anticipated launch later this year]

Four bikes under cover at the Kawasaki booth [the ninja 250, d-tracker, zx-10r and gtr1400], other bikes there include zx-6r, er-6n, KLX300R, Vulcan 900 etc.

The 250R looks mighty good in green !

[LivinLOS]

ER-6N is a nice roadie for here..

Any indication on pricing ??

EDIT ::: Any sighting of the Yammy 150 FZ pictured in other threads ?? Perhaps a motorshow thread is in order.

Edited March 27, 2008 by LivinLOS

[adad]

Was looking out for the Yamaha but it wasn't there.

[LivinLOS]

Was looking out for the Yamaha but it wasn't there.

Boo Hiss !!!

[dave_boo]

Well, all us CBR 150R owners are watching this it seems. But will it be enough to tempt us away?

I suppose that for owners of older CBR 150Rs, it will be. Us with newer models will probably mull it over.

Using myself as an example; I bought mine new approximately 2 1/4 years ago. Still have warranty until Jan. 09. And seeing how, if I recall correctly, PeaceBlondie's bike has been running since 03 I still have at least a couple more years out of it (and most likely more since I don't ride it as much as he does).

Running the numbers alone it's hard to justify. A 140K Baht bike (assuming that VAT and everything is included in the quoted price) on top of the one I have now is a big investment. That means I'd have a total of over 200k in bikes. Now granted, I can't really justify having two 'sports' bikes, even if ones a back up because they ARE a pain in the arse for getting groceries and other mundane stuff. So even if I were able to get 30K Baht for selling my CBR 150R, I'm still 170K in the hole.

Now, if you look at the performance numbers it gets interesting. The Ninja puts out 38 BHP (but curiously only delivers 28ish to the rear wheel). The CBR only has 17 (wether that's BHP or rear wheel, I don't know, but I'm going to assume it's BHP). So horsepower per cc, the Ninja has 0.152 and the CBR has 0.11. Quite a big difference. Horsepower per kilo, the Ninja has 0.25 and the CBR has 0.17. Even worst. The fun factor is definitely way down on the CBR 150R when you start looking at it from that point.

Now comes the interesting part; upgrading. The general talk is that simply opening up the breathing on a CBR 150R will take you up in the 22-23 HP range. That's a less than 8k Baht upgrade. It also takes your numbers into a range that's much closer to the Ninja's. Your per cc goes up to 0.147 (Ninja's is 0.152) and per kilo to .22 (Ninja's is 0.25). Then there's the oversize kits. I'm not going to guess how much they're going to get you, but I've heard prices for ~20K Baht being thrown around.

Add in that there are really no performance gains to be had with the admittedly excellent Kawasaki engine, you can quickly approach the same performance per whatever floats your boat. Granted, the Kawasaki will win when you factor in the riders weight.

So basically, I can spend spend some 30K Baht and get the same performance. However, this will involve spending time tearing down the bike, adding in the parts, losing warranty and the associated risks with a motor that's running 'hotter' than stock.

But I'd save 110K baht.

Someone help me!!!!

[PeaceBlondie]

Daveboo, I may not be any help, but you have raised some interesting points.

I could trade up and stop owning a bike I have gotten great service on. I bought it in July 2003, so it may be 5.5 years old, with 60K km, by the time Kawasaki actually starts delivering the bikes. I question that any bike delivers 38 hp at the crank and only 28 at the rear wheel. Assuming the fuel injection gives ten percent boost, and the displacement another 60 percent, who knows? But obviously it should be much more powerful than the 150. By the way, the Honda CBF250 in Mexico only advertises about 25 hp, but is not as high strung or high tech as the Ninja 250.

As for modifying the CBR150R, I can see getting the 5 mm stroke and the overbore, but the 10 mm stroke may really be stretching it, literally. And a bigger carb and air filter, etc., but I simply do not trust a mechanic to do the job right, and at those rebuild prices (somewhere around 32K baht), why take the chance of actually spoiling a motor that works fine now?

Do I want to spend about 140K on a new bike? Not yet. Maybe in November if Kawasaki ever gets around to what they showed last November.

[dave_boo]

Daveboo, I may not be any help, but you have raised some interesting points.

I could trade up and stop owning a bike I have gotten great service on. I bought it in July 2003, so it may be 5.5 years old, with 60K km, by the time Kawasaki actually starts delivering the bikes. I question that any bike delivers 38 hp at the crank and only 28 at the rear wheel. Assuming the fuel injection gives ten percent boost, and the displacement another 60 percent, who knows? But obviously it should be much more powerful than the 150. By the way, the Honda CBF250 in Mexico only advertises about 25 hp, but is not as high strung or high tech as the Ninja 250.

As for modifying the CBR150R, I can see getting the 5 mm stroke and the overbore, but the 10 mm stroke may really be stretching it, literally. And a bigger carb and air filter, etc., but I simply do not trust a mechanic to do the job right, and at those rebuild prices (somewhere around 32K baht), why take the chance of actually spoiling a motor that works fine now?

Do I want to spend about 140K on a new bike? Not yet. Maybe in November if Kawasaki ever gets around to what they showed last November.

Knowing me being young and dumb, I'll probably go ahead and buy one. Everyone always forgets my birthday (in fact at 12:00 midnight on the day following I turned to my wife and asked her what she forgot---for the last two years!!!), so I may just splurge.

The 32K price was for doing the work yourself...I wouldn't have a problem doing it, in fact would probably feel better about the quality; but there's probably a vast majority out there that wouldn't know a torque wrench from a torque convertor.

[LivinLOS]

The CBR has also cheap running costs, theres a level of ease in a readily available Honda parts and service that shouldnt be ignored.

I myself am mulling putting real papers onto a 400 bandit, it will come in at a lot less for a almost new import 400 than the sale price on a legit 250.. If your talking fun factor and power then surely that wins (I have to admit I dont favor flat out sport bikes and love the compromise that is the bandit, I think its ideal for my personal body size, useage, speed requirements, etc).. I mean you can find many CBR400's for that sale price, many half that sale price, I struggle to see the merit of the 250 over the 400, even when new, at that price premium, if its a sport bike you want.

I am not saying the 250 wouldnt be a good bike or a good seller.. I tend to not be someone who cares about new as much as I care about well maintained and good to ride. I just see the nieche for a 140k bike pretty narrow between value and power.

I am / was really itching for any announcement on the FZ150, and that doesnt seem to be coming at this show which is a shame. That would also fill another nieche (if its big enough for a large framed guy, the CBR is too small) of less speed / power, but cheaper maintenance and parts, easier /nippier round towns traffic over a bigger bike. At <75k ish that would hit the feel for a super scooter and just about do longer road things it would be the sit up position CBR150 in its selling points.

Just my 2 satang stated with the bias that I dont really go for the sport position / style on Thai roads.

[Richard-BKK]

I don't want to sounds negative, but did anybody actual see a Honda CBR-150R at the motorshow? Guest I missed it......

(If this posting regarding a Honda CBR-150R sounds negative, I can assure you it is just a honest question and has no deeper meaning.... if this sounds still negative, it was not intended)

[PeaceBlondie]

Richard, it is okay to say something negative about the CBR150R. It is a 6 to 8 year old design, it is a bit crowded/cramped, it only gets 32 km per liter, etc. We have said way too many negative things about other bikes. But the Ninja 250 sounds great. Honestly, I am just afraid I will not be willing to pay that much when it finally gets here.

What? No CBR150R at the motor show?

[Richard-BKK]

Guess I missed it, but drink her drink there, please you need to drink one beer with us, we just opened black label for you (what is of course not true), drink one whiskey ....etc. I did not had time to see actual much bikes. (but with a quick look, I could not see a CBR-150R, maybe they changed the paint job again)

We drink some with the Kawasaki crew, and the price so-called confirmed is totally not confirmed.... (basically it is the USA price with the current "Low" US dollar) expect something higher.

Edited March 28, 2008 by Richard-BKK

[dave_boo]

@LivingLOS:

I agree with you that for the cc/price, the Ninja 250 comes up short against the larger cc bikes. However, you're looking at a bike with a warranty and country wide service. Import and disribution of spare parts for the larger bikes will quickly add up.

I'm also disappointed that Yamaha hasn't shown their new bike. We need someone to get Honda to have to update the CBR 150R. I'm of the mind that the Ninja 250 won't do that. In fact I think that it would sell poorly, simply because it's out of the price range of many average Thais. If Yamaha does introduce their new bike, and price it at less than 80K Baht, it would definitely give Honda a run for the money (although I think that even though it's a new model, Thais prefernce for Honda would probably dictate Yamaha having to undercut the CBR 150R's price point to gain major traction).

@Richard-BKK

I don't take that as a dig at the CBR 150R. But as PeaceBlondie pointed out it's a 6-8 year old design. How many Sonics, Sparks or whatever did the manufacturers have on display? It's hard to excite people at an auto show if you're showing the same-same you showed last year. The only thing I've heard they updated on the CBR was a key lock....and I don't believe that because my '06 model has the same key lock cover that are on other Honda bikes--or maybe I'm misunderstanding it.

@ PeaceBlondie:

You're seriously only getting 32Km/L? I'm pulling in around 40; and that's mixed driving-but heavy on the country routes-at usually over 100KPH and measured from chock full to chock full. Granted mine's newer and at only 11k Km, but still, your's sounds really low. Maybe it's time to get a tune up or even getting a ring job.

[Richard-BKK]

Yamaha is present at the Motorshow, the only FZ or Yzf-R I could see where the 1's and the 6's, and of course the lovely blue 250cc Tmax or Majestic 250 scooter.

They also have the usual weird stuff like the 4-wheel motorcycle the Yamaha Tesseract..

[PeaceBlondie]

daveboo, when most of my kilometers were daily commutes of 70 km roundtrip on a fast superhighway, I always got 29 to 31 km per liter, and always measured it from fillup to fillup. Now I am getting a little better, still flogging it at high rpm. I doubt it needs service since it still gets 139 kph top speed. I think anything around 32 km/l is good enough for the performance. My NV pickup may not get 10/liter!

[JonnyF]

I saw this bike at the motor show last night and I have to say that it looks great. When I first heard the price I thought that it was way too much for an extra 100cc compared to the CBR150 but to be honest the bike is in a different league - it looks more like the ZX6R than the CBR150. The only thing that lets it down is the back tyre which is very thin and looks a bit out of place but I'm sure you could get that sorted.

FWIW, the Kawasaki guy on the stand told me that the price would be 150,000 and it would be available to buy in August, but he didn't seem too sure of himself so I wouldn't bet on it.

[PeaceBlondie]

I saw this bike at the motor show last night and I have to say that it looks great. When I first heard the price I thought that it was way too much for an extra 100cc compared to the CBR150 but to be honest the bike is in a different league - it looks more like the ZX6R than the CBR150. The only thing that lets it down is the back tyre which is very thin and looks a bit out of place but I'm sure you could get that sorted.

FWIW, the Kawasaki guy on the stand told me that the price would be 150,000 and it would be available to buy in August, but he didn't seem too sure of himself so I wouldn't bet on it.

It is beautiful, and so forth. Even at 140K, the Ninja 250 would still be more than double the CBR150R. August, November...we have been waiting since that guy in the suit announced it last November. How many dealerships (you know, real distributor type, factory franchised big shops with well trained mechanics) does Kawasaki have in this kingdom, maybe ten outside BKK? How many bikes larger than 125cc has the K brand ever sold in Thailand? If we drop by our nearest dealership, will they even have a KSR110 on display? At least the Triumph and my local Yamaha dealership are bulging with 600cc and larger examples.

I apologize for my negativity, but after owning 8 Japanese bikes that were not the K brand, I wonder if Kawasaki is the tiniest Japanese name in Thailand.

[JonnyF]

I saw this bike at the motor show last night and I have to say that it looks great. When I first heard the price I thought that it was way too much for an extra 100cc compared to the CBR150 but to be honest the bike is in a different league - it looks more like the ZX6R than the CBR150. The only thing that lets it down is the back tyre which is very thin and looks a bit out of place but I'm sure you could get that sorted.

FWIW, the Kawasaki guy on the stand told me that the price would be 150,000 and it would be available to buy in August, but he didn't seem too sure of himself so I wouldn't bet on it.

It is beautiful, and so forth. Even at 140K, the Ninja 250 would still be more than double the CBR150R. August, November...we have been waiting since that guy in the suit announced it last November. How many dealerships (you know, real distributor type, factory franchised big shops with well trained mechanics) does Kawasaki have in this kingdom, maybe ten outside BKK? How many bikes larger than 125cc has the K brand ever sold in Thailand? If we drop by our nearest dealership, will they even have a KSR110 on display? At least the Triumph and my local Yamaha dealership are bulging with 600cc and larger examples.

I apologize for my negativity, but after owning 8 Japanese bikes that were not the K brand, I wonder if Kawasaki is the tiniest Japanese name in Thailand.

Compared to the CBR150 it seems pricey I agree, but this isn't just a CBR150 with a bigger engine stuck in it. Like I said having seen the bike I can honestly say that it should be compared more to the bigger bikes than the CBR150 because it bears far more resemblance to them. When you think of it that way then 150k for the 250 compared to 450k (ish) for the 600 doesn't seem so bad. I can really use the extra 100cc that I get over the CBR150, but I think I'd be risking my life trying to use the power of a 600 in LOS so it seems like quite a decent compromise.

I don't really worry about how many dealerships there are - how many main dealers do you need? As long as I've got one fairly close then that's enough. In the unlikely event of some kind of major failure while I am in the middle of nowhere that can't be patched up by Somchai (how often does this really happen on modern, well maintained bikes?) then I might need to pay a local a couple of thousand baht to take me to the nearest main dealer in the back of his pickup but I don't really factor things like that into a decision of whether to buy something like this.

[PeaceBlondie]

I finally got to my local Kawasaki dealer in Chiang Mai. Not one of those holes in the wall, but a big Yamaha-Kawasaki place, where the driver was about to deliver 3 KSR110's. Of course, no sporty bikes on display, and the first saleslady knew nothing, but she called the driver out of his cab. That guy gave the usual line: maybe a Ninja 250 in October, and maybe a cost of 180,000 baht. We did not bother to talk about the Yamaha 150.

Some of the photos show the Ninja 250 as a monoposto, single seater. I hope it has a pillion.

[nefelimhg]

Just got of the phone with Kawasaki Motors Enterprise on Rama 9, they told me the 250R will cost around 150,000THB and is scheduled for July.

This is because of the injection version is not ready (tested he said?!) yet (the 250R's sold in other country's are carburetor versions).

So here is something to keep you busy will waiting ;-)

Edited April 2, 2008 by nefelimhg

[Richard-BKK]

All (except the one who made in the USA) 2008 Kawasaki EX 250 J have fuel injection, the delay is a problem with the electric wiring, a large amount of the 2008 EX 250 J are worldwide recalled by Kawasaki.

Nothing serious, it only burns out the rear-tail-light, but also not funny if you need to replace the tail light every week or so.

Edited April 2, 2008 by Richard-BKK

[gmac]

Just got of the phone with Kawasaki Motors Enterprise on Rama 9, they told me the 250R will cost around 150,000THB and is scheduled for July.

This is because of the injection version is not ready (tested he said?!) yet (the 250R's sold in other country's are carburetor versions).

So here is something to keep you busy will waiting ;-)

Great news -- I think!! Better news if the Yamaha R15 arrives as well so I can decide if the extra 60-70,000 Baht is worth spending. At the moment it's a case of buy another CBR or go up 100cc and a price bracket for the Ninja. How much better if there was also the option to go up just 10-20K for a new-tech 150cc Yamaha.

[dave_boo]

I'm confused...I followed this link, and it seems to indicate that FZ150i is a small step ahead in terms of fuel injection, but you lose your rear disc brake, 6 speed transmission, and 4 PS less - 79% of the CBR 150R's(about the same loss in HP for us Americans). However, it is 75% of the price of a CBR 150R in Malaysia.

Is this essentially the same engine in the "R15" that's purpotedly coming to Thailand? Are the specs of the "R15" going to exceed these, or are they going to be identical?

[LivinLOS]

No the R15 is supposed to be a much better water cooled engine.. The Fz150 is a step back in power and engine design IIRC.